The spector of losing football independence

[HuddleBurger]

It looms ever closer the more ND becomes irrelevant as a college football powerhouse. The pressure will begin mounting not just on Kelly, but Swarbrick himself and maybe even higher up the chain.

The more mediocre the football program becomes, the less leverage ND will have in calling their own shots and remaining independent. I'm hoping this may be the bigger item that will force the administration to finally take responsibility and work to achieve current-day football success instead of living off the past.

It may depend on how much private money and donations will walk away if ND loses its independence. The only thing that will spur the administration to take real action is the prospect of the money train becoming derailed. Perpetuating the cushy Era of Mediocrity may finally have its repercussions.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

for me, and I can't even believe I'm saying this, but I think ND should join the ACC as a full member. CFB has past ND by, the current generation of kids really don't even know the glory, the history of ND. They need something more to play for, short of the national championship. So while I absolutely still love the notion of independence, I just no longer see it working out for ND. The times have drastically changed, the landscape has drastically change, Change is inevitable, and often forced by circumstances. That is now.

 

[shooter1977]

Let's not get carried away. ND and Alabama were the only programs to appear in both the initial 2014 and 2015 CFP Top 10 rankings. In 2013 ND had more players drafted than any team but Alabama. And in 2012 ND was the only undefeated team in the regular season.

I highly doubt ND punts their football independence after one bad season.

 

[KujawaFan]

I am not a ND fan so obviously am biased but it is infuriating ND gets a seat at the table without being in a conference. So take this comment with that pretext in mind. And I do understand the power of ND. However, unless they go undefeated or other conferences have multiple loss teams will they ever get in? I used to say yes but there is no way the Big 10 or SEC will be left out for a non-conference team. I really think they need to join a conference and it should be the Big 10 but regardless i don't think ND fans should want to be independent in the current landscape.

 

[IrishBlessings]

It looms ever closer the more ND becomes irrelevant as a college football powerhouse. The pressure will begin mounting not just on Kelly, but Swarbrick himself and maybe even higher up the chain.

The more mediocre the football program becomes, the less leverage ND will have in calling their own shots and remaining independent. I'm hoping this may be the bigger item that will force the administration to finally take responsibility and work to achieve current-day football success instead of living off the past.

It may depend on how much private money and donations will walk away if ND loses its independence. The only thing that will spur the administration to take real action is the prospect of the money train becoming derailed. Perpetuating the cushy Era of Mediocrity may finally have its repercussions.

Spot on Huddle - you are right - if NBC or whoever the next TV deal is with - says - you know what ND we are not gonna pay that huge amount of $$ for your rights to be your TV vehicle, etc. That is when the higher ups realize the money train is in danger - that they better look at ways to help the Head Coach field a legitimate team and they better do a better job in whoever they hirer as the next head coach.

Make no mistake about it - ND needs a new head coach.

For BK regardless if he had less restrictions as the HC at ND - he sure as hell is not the answer. Look at how well Stanford is doing w/ D.Shaw w/ essentially the exact same restrictions as ND. What ND needs first and foremost is to find a great coach like Shaw to be the guy at ND. Then if they (ND Admin) need to tweak some things to make it somewhat easier to compete then they do that.

I gotta believe TV ratings for ND the rest of this season are gonna be bad - can't believe the TV sponsors are all that happy w/ the way ND plays football.

 

[twalsh]

I am not a ND fan so obviously am biased but it is infuriating ND gets a seat at the table without being in a conference. So take this comment with that pretext in mind. And I do understand the power of ND. However, unless they go undefeated or other conferences have multiple loss teams will they ever get in? I used to say yes but there is no way the Big 10 or SEC will be left out for a non-conference team. I really think they need to join a conference and it should be the Big 10 but regardless i don't think ND fans should want to be independent in the current landscape.

It wasn't that long ago that there were many independents, including teams like Penn State, FSU and Miami. Every one of them joined a conference because they believed it was in THEIR best interest to do so. Nobody forced them, nobody said you have to be in a conference. So why should we be forced to join a conference if we don't think it's in our best interests to do so?

 

[NDSMC78]

It wasn't that long ago that there were many independents, including teams like Penn State, FSU and Miami. Every one of them joined a conference because they believed it was in THEIR best interest to do so. Nobody forced them, nobody said you have to be in a conference. So why should we be forced to join a conference if we don't think it's in our best interests to do so?

This.

 

[KujawaFan]

Because if you don't believe it is in your best interest you are not paying attention to the landscape. First, not Lou time anymore. Second, the BIG 10 and SEC would flat out secede if ND got in over their champs and the committee knows it so limited spots. Third, the money is being split pretty high now in conferences so the NBC contract not as lucrative. Fourth, your schedule is not what it was anymore. People are now picking apart how ND never has back to back road games (like happens in conferences with the random scheduling) and in fact only has 3 true road games this year and misses the 3 best teams in "their" conference. Bottom line join or be left behind.

 

[NDSMC78]

Gee. We have never heard anyone make those points before. You are the first.

 

[BGI User 348]

If ND was in the ACC we could still be playing for a Championship.....not just Pride.


BEAT cuse!!!

 

[northvanole]

It wasn't that long ago that there were many independents, including teams like Penn State, FSU and Miami. Every one of them joined a conference because they believed it was in THEIR best interest to do so. Nobody forced them, nobody said you have to be in a conference. So why should we be forced to join a conference if we don't think it's in our best interests to do so?

Independents like FSU, Miami and PSU had to join a conference because the CFA was breaking down (particularly after ND left) as the networks would not do deals on a one one basis, other than for ND. So, schools had to band together. Overtime, and with the playoff, these conference contracts are huge and networks want a return on their investment. NBC is not a player in college football. ND could not have picked a worse media outlet to remain independent.

ND should look at its partnership with the only media outlet that has no ties to college football, other than that one contract.

But the world is changing. The Big 12 is fighting among themselves and there could be an implosion. Clemson and FSU were stopped in their wish to get WVU as a member of the ACC. With Pitt and UL in the ACC now, that will not happen again.

Seriously, the B12 could be creating a real problem soon. Too much infighting about expansion, and too muc public discourse of disagreement.

 

[twalsh]

Because if you don't believe it is in your best interest you are not paying attention to the landscape. First, not Lou time anymore. Second, the BIG 10 and SEC would flat out secede if ND got in over their champs and the committee knows it so limited spots. Third, the money is being split pretty high now in conferences so the NBC contract not as lucrative. Fourth, your schedule is not what it was anymore. People are now picking apart how ND never has back to back road games (like happens in conferences with the random scheduling) and in fact only has 3 true road games this year and misses the 3 best teams in "their" conference. Bottom line join or be left behind.

We have a pretty smart guy running our athletic department, one who is very much in tune with the business of college football and the ever changing landscape. We will depend on him to know when it's in our best interests to give up our independence.

 

[FSUTribe76]

for me, and I can't even believe I'm saying this, but I think ND should join the ACC as a full member. CFB has past ND by, the current generation of kids really don't even know the glory, the history of ND. They need something more to play for, short of the national championship. So while I absolutely still love the notion of independence, I just no longer see it working out for ND. The times have drastically changed, the landscape has drastically change, Change is inevitable, and often forced by circumstances. That is now.

In the past 35 years or the entirety of time I've been alive and able to watch football, Notre Dame has one national championship while teams in the ACC have 10 (FSU 3, Miami 5, Georgia Tech 1 and Clemson 1). If you wanted to travel back 40 years so Notre Dame could add another you'd have to give the ACC members 11 as Pitt has one in the last 40 years as well. In that same 35 time period the Big Ten only has 8 with new member Nebraska having almost half.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

In the past 35 years or the entirety of time I've been alive and able to watch football, Notre Dame has one national championship while teams in the ACC have 10 (FSU 3, Miami 5, Georgia Tech 1 and Clemson 1). If you wanted to travel back 40 years so Notre Dame could add another you'd have to give the ACC members 11 as Pitt has one in the last 40 years as well. In that same 35 time period the Big Ten only has 8 with new member Nebraska having almost half.

Pretty much supports what I'm thinking. Independence is what I want to keep, but it's simply becoming impractical

 

[tkirish]

Every time ND has a few losses this topic comes up. Guess what? They aren't joining a conference. It's that simple.

 

[KujawaFan]

Great don't and be left out. The conferences are getting too strong. The Big 12 is ready to implode and Texas and Oklahoma (with Okie St as a tag along to OK) are out. And with 4 power conferences unless the playoffs go to 8 games ND is out unless they join a conference. ND simply does not have the pull anymore and being 1-3 is not helping.

 

[NDSMC78]

Great don't and be left out. The conferences are getting too strong. The Big 12 is ready to implode and Texas and Oklahoma (with Okie St as a tag along to OK) are out. And with 4 power conferences unless the playoffs go to 8 games ND is out unless they join a conference. ND simply does not have the pull anymore and being 1-3 is not helping.

Pure speculation. You don't know any of that is going to happen. Go worry about Iowa. We will worry about ND.

 

[deadirishpoet]

It looms ever closer the more ND becomes irrelevant as a college football powerhouse. The pressure will begin mounting not just on Kelly, but Swarbrick himself and maybe even higher up the chain.

The more mediocre the football program becomes, the less leverage ND will have in calling their own shots and remaining independent. I'm hoping this may be the bigger item that will force the administration to finally take responsibility and work to achieve current-day football success instead of living off the past.

It may depend on how much private money and donations will walk away if ND loses its independence. The only thing that will spur the administration to take real action is the prospect of the money train becoming derailed. Perpetuating the cushy Era of Mediocrity may finally have its repercussions.

There was a time in every major programs history they thought they were losing their relevancy most recent Alabama

They are just one HC away who understand what works with its restrictions at Notre Dame away. Coach Kelly has tried and currently is trying to make his system work here but what many of us have felt would not work here( not because of the offense )more about the lack of Defense that he has shown to have two routers D1 career.

That could possibly turn around with whoever the new DC, but at this point what we have seen is what we will get.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

this is amusing.....You can join a conference...and think, OK...we're good...Then, the conference itself goes to crap....so you jump ship and move to another conference...If that don't work out....you go "independent" again....ala Brigham Young.....nothing is carved in stone...And, by the way...take a look at the schedule...and the traditional, historical Notre Dame opponents that aren't on it....and you will find that Notre Dame is already a member of the ACC.

 

[IRISHJD98]

Great don't and be left out. The conferences are getting too strong. The Big 12 is ready to implode and Texas and Oklahoma (with Okie St as a tag along to OK) are out. And with 4 power conferences unless the playoffs go to 8 games ND is out unless they join a conference. ND simply does not have the pull anymore and being 1-3 is not helping.

Kinda reminds me of the reports speculating the ACC's impending implosion a couple of years ago.

 

[theskibro]

We have a pretty smart guy running our athletic department, one who is very much in tune with the business of college football and the ever changing landscape. We will depend on him to know when it's in our best interests to give up our independence.

Whoa

If our AD is so smart-- and a lot of people think so just like you -- then why is Kelly our coach?

 

[Nocalirish]

You have to be a moron to think ND should voluntarily join a conference in football. ND plays for NC's not conf titles or 2nd tier bowl games.

 

[tkirish]

So let's see review. In 2012 The Irish make it to the the NC, though they were crushed. Then they are literally in the hunt for a playoff spot until the Stanford field goal went through in the last game as time expired. Now they are having a bad season and it looks to get worse. Somehow this team that is so "irrelevant" is always on TV and always a conversation piece. ND is the most " relevant " "irrelevant" team on the planet. I am the first to admit the Irish , not counting this year, are a top 15 program under Kelly. That's being kind. With that said they have good to very good talent. Not Bama or OSU but pretty good. Kelly has done a good job keeping the Irish steady. He seems to struggle getting to the next level. I believe with the right coach, the right style of football (see Stanford, Wisconsin, MSU) they can be a perineal top 5 program. The reason why conferences want them is they know any game with ND is a huge money maker. Hopefully when the time comes to find a new coach, the ND administration will get it right. Because if the do, look out. Once they get this program back on track, the conference chatter will stop. Believe me , I have no inside info at all. But if you look at all the upgrades and money they are spending for football, they can't afford to have a lousy program. They need to sell tickets and keep fans and especially NBC happy. How do you do that? Putting a winning team out there. So if I see that, I know those who give the money know that. The next coach will be a can't miss. I bet the feelers are out there as I type. Anyway, that's it. Go Irish!!

 

[deadirishpoet]

this is amusing.....You can join a conference...and think, OK...we're good...Then, the conference itself goes to crap....so you jump ship and move to another conference...If that don't work out....you go "independent" again....ala Brigham Young.....nothing is carved in stone...And, by the way...take a look at the schedule...and the traditional, historical Notre Dame opponents that aren't on it....and you will find that Notre Dame is already a member of the ACC.

Well Done!

 

[WoadBlue]

I'm old enough to remember when ND did not play in bowls. And so I also remember when the vast majority of ND fans swore that ND would be ruined forever if it began to play in bowls

And then ND played in its first Cotton Bowl: against #1 Texas. Because the Irish lost, fans were split about 50-50, half saying losing the bowl lost ND's unique status forever, and half saying such a bowl win would re-establish ND football at least as much as the 1966 season. When ND upset #1 Texas in the next Cotton Bowl, it is virtually impossible to find an ND fan who openly called for stopping playing bowls.

The same thing will happen when ND goes full member in ACC football.

Playing for conference titles is about to be for ND football what playing for bowls was in 1968: the thing that is more meaningful for the future of the program and the good of the entire athletics department than all but the most insightful fans understood.

 

[beachcardinal]

Nd will always be able to schedule good opponents but not having the extra game makes is hard, even for very good ND teams.

 

[deadirishpoet]

I'm old enough to remember when ND did not play in bowls. And so I also remember when the vast majority of ND fans swore that ND would be ruined forever if it began to play in bowls

And then ND played in its first Cotton Bowl: against #1 Texas. Because the Irish lost, fans were split about 50-50, half saying losing the bowl lost ND's unique status forever, and half saying such a bowl win would re-establish ND football at least as much as the 1966 season. When ND upset #1 Texas in the next Cotton Bowl, it is virtually impossible to find an ND fan who openly called for stopping playing bowls.

The same thing will happen when ND goes full member in ACC football.

Playing for conference titles is about to be for ND football what playing for bowls was in 1968: the thing that is more meaningful for the future of the program and the good of the entire athletics department than all but the most insightful fans understood.

ND WILL NOT GO FULL MEMBER ESPECIALLY IN THE ACC

 

[11NCs]

The only thing that will spur the administration to take real action is the prospect of the money train becoming derailed. /QUOTE]

Above I copied the only intelligent sentence from the original post. Considering ND generates more money than all but a handful of schools, independence will go on for years and years and years and years. OP, do yourself a favor and take a 100 level economics course before posting next time.

 

[HuddleBurger]

A 100 level economics course will probably teach me that offering a mediocre football product could cause demand to drop, which would cause the stock to go lower. The lower the stock, the less leverage at the bargaining table.

 

[WoadBlue]

ND WILL NOT GO FULL MEMBER ESPECIALLY IN THE ACC

Then Notre Dame football will very slowly (in the situation it is in now as a 5/8ths member with no benefits), or more quickly (as a true independent in football) decline. It would never have happen what came to be for once big regional and even national powers like Tulane and Rice, but it will decline. The landscape of college athletics has changed. Notre Dane can't fight it or avoid it. If it were possible, ND wouldn't now have the ACC office scheduling 5 football games per year.

Worse would be ND joining the Big Ten. The conference of gargantuan Land Grants would subsume tiny ND the way the Star Trek BORG absorbs whatever it finds and can add to itself. ND sucked dry to keep advancing Ohio St and Michigan - Irish haters the nation over would never get tired of laughing about that.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Glad others are starting to see the light

 

[rutgersdave]

It might take 10 more years for the 70-80's to pass away. Anyone younger doesn't remember when the Irish was a winning team.

 

[hvillebill]

It might take 10 more years for the 70-80's to pass away. Anyone younger doesn't remember when the Irish was a winning team.

Rutgers has been dead since the 1800's.

 

[NDSMC78]

It might take 10 more years for the 70-80's to pass away. Anyone younger doesn't remember when the Irish was a winning team.

I sure as hell do.

 

[cgvr]

Then Notre Dame football will very slowly (in the situation it is in now as a 5/8ths member with no benefits), or more quickly (as a true independent in football) decline. It would never have happen what came to be for once big regional and even national powers like Tulane and Rice, but it will decline. The landscape of college athletics has changed. Notre Dane can't fight it or avoid it. If it were possible, ND wouldn't now have the ACC office scheduling 5 football games per year.

Worse would be ND joining the Big Ten. The conference of gargantuan Land Grants would subsume tiny ND the way the Star Trek BORG absorbs whatever it finds and can add to itself. ND sucked dry to keep advancing Ohio St and Michigan - Irish haters the nation over would never get tired of laughing about that.

A little perspective written by me in 2009:

When UMich won 1/2 of the 1997 NC, it had been 49 years since their last one.
When Tennessee won the NC in 1998, it had been 47 years since their last one.
When tOSU won the NC in 2002, it had been 34 years since their last one.
When USC won 1/2 of the 2003 NC, it had been 25 years since their last one (1978, also split)
When LSU won 1/2 of the 2003 NC, it had been 45 years since their last one.
When Texas won the NC in 2005, it had been 36 years since their last one.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Then Notre Dame football will very slowly (in the situation it is in now as a 5/8ths member with no benefits), or more quickly (as a true independent in football) decline. It would never have happen what came to be for once big regional and even national powers like Tulane and Rice, but it will decline. The landscape of college athletics has changed. Notre Dane can't fight it or avoid it. If it were possible, ND wouldn't now have the ACC office scheduling 5 football games per year.

Worse would be ND joining the Big Ten. The conference of gargantuan Land Grants would subsume tiny ND the way the Star Trek BORG absorbs whatever it finds and can add to itself. ND sucked dry to keep advancing Ohio St and Michigan - Irish haters the nation over would never get tired of laughing about that.

And the ACC is a one trick pony I
I'm not saying the landscape hasn't changed ,or that Notre Dame will never be forced into a conference just not that conference

The Big 10 is a better fit for ND. , Including other than football sports

 

[NDSMC78]

Have to disagree with you, poet. If ND joined the Big 10, the conference and the schools would screw us every chance they get.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Have to disagree with you, poet. If ND joined the Big 10, the conference and the schools would screw us every chance they get.

I doubt that. Times have changed. All that bad blood in the past just adds to the flavor. The Big Ten would welcome Notre Dame with open arms

There is nothing that the ACC could ever offer Notre Dame that the Big Ten couldn't

 

[NDSMC78]

I doubt that. Times have changed. All that bad blood in the past just adds to the flavor. The Big Ten would welcome Notre Dame with open arms

There is nothing that the ACC could ever offer Notre Dame that the Big Ten couldn't

Sure they could. The ACC could welcome us as an equal, not subservient to Michigan and Ohio St.

 

[FSUTribe76]

And the ACC is a one trick pony I
I'm not saying the landscape hasn't changed ,or that Notre Dame will never be forced into a conference just not that conference

The Big 10 is a better fit for ND. , Including other than football sports

1 Trick Pony? The ACC is inarguably the best conference for women's soccer, women's basketball, and men and women'a lacrosse. It is arguablly the best men's basketball conference. It's the second best baseball, softball, track and field, volleyball, swimming and diving conference. In football which is basically it's worst sport it's no worse than 5th and by my eyes is the best conference this year by a pretty wide margin when two of our worst teams knocked out ND and an undefeated Indiana and our absolute worst team beat the school that knocked out arguably the second or third best Big 12 team. And that's without factoring in the ACC has 2 teams in the top 5 and 4 in the top 15. Pitt relatively easily handled Penn State regardless of the score, FSU soundly beat the probable second best team in the SEC and the conference just went 8-0 in non conference games this past week.