The potential @ the QB position

[Holycrossover3]

First off I want to start by saying Ian Book had a great season. Probably the best season at QB since Clausen’s junior year. Proud of him and I believe he’ll continue to win the games that he should.

IIO stated that in order for us to win yesterday, Book had to be better than Lawrence. I think we clearly saw that there is a 0% possibility of that ever happening. Lawrence is a true 5 star, NFL talent. He rarely misses a throw, keeps composure under pressure, and simply delivers strikes.

In the current state of college football, the QB situation is essential. The 4 QBs in the playoff are Tua, Murray, Lawrence, & Book. In a true assessment, there is an odd duck in that bunch.

I’m not exactly sure how well Jurkovec’s game translates into the college level. I do know that he had offers from Saban, Swinney, and Urban Meyer which shows his talent potential.

Do we possibly take a step back next year to develop a raw talented redshirt freshman? Or do we continue down our current path with Book, who will play well, but possibly doesn’t have the talent to compete against the elites?

*i fully understand the game wasn’t completely on Book yesterday. But just looking ahead to the upcoming years, I think we need an absolute star at that position to compete with top tier teams*

 

[IrishMike409]

Book earned the right to start next year. Let Phil sit and learn for another year.

Knowing what we know about Book- he'll have a great off season, and be better next year.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Book earned the right to start next year. Let Phil sit and learn for another year.

Knowing what we know about Book- he'll have a great off season, and be better next year.

Nothing that is earned can’t be taken. It’s a competitive game. That’s why they make the big bucks in the pros.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

I'd give Book and Jurkovec 50 percent snaps each with first string. Then I'd probably do what Clemson did with Bryant and Lawrence. Start Book, but ease Jurkovec into action to see if he's ready and if he out performs Book, which I would expect him to. Then name Jurkovec the starter.

 

[Patrirish]

If an OLine doesn’t provide protection, who the QB is, is almost irrelevant

 

[Leahylads]

Why would a five star QB want to play for Kelly?

 

[Get Nasty]

The biggest problem with book is not his physical talent specifically height or arm strength it is 100% his pocket presence and his mental toughness. I’m going to say it, he is a soft typical Cali QB. We had players wide open a lot yesterday and a ton all season but if the pocket shrinks at all he panicked like a little school girl. I’m not talking pressure I’m talking staying in the pocket while it shrinks and going through progressions. Yesterday he looked at Boykin and threw it or panicked. Book wants to be like brees. Brees stays in the pocket and makes tough throws with a shrinking pocket, and he’ll deliver a strike before being hit. Book never makes a throw if he’s going to get hit. He panicks. He’s insanely accurate but he’s so soft . When he had all day this year and a wall in front of him he lit it up. I expected that to improve with his time to heal ribs and how big the game was, but no, he played so soft in the first half with no urgency. He started playing tougher in the 2nd half but it was too late and Clemson could just tee off. Book needs to grow a pair in the pocket or we’ll struggle at Georgia next year.

 

[Rionegro]

The biggest problem with book is not his physical talent specifically height or arm strength it is 100% his pocket presence and his mental toughness. I’m going to say it, he is a soft typical Cali QB. We had players wide open a lot yesterday and a ton all season but if the pocket shrinks at all he panicked like a little school girl. I’m not talking pressure I’m talking staying in the pocket while it shrinks and going through progressions. Yesterday he looked at Boykin and threw it or panicked. Book wants to be like brees. Brees stays in the pocket and makes tough throws with a shrinking pocket, and he’ll deliver a strike before being hit. Book never makes a throw if he’s going to get hit. He panicks. He’s insanely accurate but he’s so soft . When he had all day this year and a wall in front of him he lit it up. I expected that to improve with his time to heal ribs and how big the game was, but no, he played so soft in the first half with no urgency. He started playing tougher in the 2nd half but it was too late and Clemson could just tee off. Book needs to grow a pair in the pocket or we’ll struggle at Georgia next year.

Typical Caliqb like Clausen? Possibly the toughest qb we ever had. Took a pounding game after game

 

[Get Nasty]

Typical Caliqb like Clausen? Possibly the toughest qb we ever had. Took a pounding game after game

Yeah he was definitely tough but the beating he took caused him to have happy feet late in his career vs good defenses. Cali players are just known for being soft in general. Book is soft and mentally weak in the pocket.

 

[IrishMike409]

The biggest problem with book is not his physical talent specifically height or arm strength it is 100% his pocket presence and his mental toughness. I’m going to say it, he is a soft typical Cali QB. We had players wide open a lot yesterday and a ton all season but if the pocket shrinks at all he panicked like a little school girl. I’m not talking pressure I’m talking staying in the pocket while it shrinks and going through progressions. Yesterday he looked at Boykin and threw it or panicked. Book wants to be like brees. Brees stays in the pocket and makes tough throws with a shrinking pocket, and he’ll deliver a strike before being hit. Book never makes a throw if he’s going to get hit. He panicks. He’s insanely accurate but he’s so soft . When he had all day this year and a wall in front of him he lit it up. I expected that to improve with his time to heal ribs and how big the game was, but no, he played so soft in the first half with no urgency. He started playing tougher in the 2nd half but it was too late and Clemson could just tee off. Book needs to grow a pair in the pocket or we’ll struggle at Georgia next year.

"Mental toughness" "school girl" "panics" "soft" "so soft"- You're really going off on Book.

How about YOU "grow a pair" and post your real name, instead of taking personal shots at a 20 year old through an anonymous internet chat board. In my opinion, you're soft in this instance.

 

[Get Nasty]

"Mental toughness" "school girl" "panics" "soft" "so soft"- You're really going off on Book.

How about YOU "grow a pair" and post your real name, instead of taking personal shots at a 20 year old through an anonymous internet chat board. In my opinion, you're soft in this instance.

Oh boy.... he is soft and he panicked in the pocket.... I hate it but it’s true. Should I lie? Instead of calling him soft should I say he’s not tough? Instead of saying he panics in the pocket should I just say he has terrible pocket presence? That better?

 

[IrishMike409]

Oh boy.... he is soft and he panicked in the pocket.... I hate it but it’s true. Should I lie? Instead of calling him soft should I say he’s not tough? Instead of saying he panics in ttthe pocket should I just say he has terrible pocket presence? That better?

No,

 

[mbd11]

I hope Jurkovec gets a chance to win the job next year. He’s a lot more talented than Book. Otherwise, Book should improve as well, so we should be in good shape at QB next season.

 

[chitown sot]

This was Book against Clemson....Drop back to pass, look for 1st option(not open), feels pressure, stop progressions, run out of pocket and scamper for as many yards he can get. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[Get Nasty]

This was Book against Clemson....Drop back to pass, look for 1st option(not open), feels pressure, stop progressions, run out of pocket and scamper for as many yards he can get. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This. THere wasn't even much pressure in the first half except for 1 or 2 miss communications. He just panicked and panicked and panicked. Now the second half when clemson had the big lead and control, they just bum rushed up the field and owned our oline. That's why it was crucial to keep the game close.

Gosh book and long disgusted me vs clemson.

 

[chitown sot]

This. THere wasn't even much pressure in the first half except for 1 or 2 miss communications. He just panicked and panicked and panicked. Now the second half when clemson had the big lead and control, they just bum rushed up the field and owned our oline. That's why it was crucial to keep the game close.

Gosh book and long disgusted me vs clemson.

Yep, it was hard to watch

 

[d1042]

I hope Jurkovec gets a chance to win the job next year. He’s a lot more talented than Book. Otherwise, Book should improve as well, so we should be in good shape at QB next season.

ND fans can be fickle

 

[Get Nasty]

I hope Jurkovec gets a chance to win the job next year. He’s a lot more talented than Book. Otherwise, Book should improve as well, so we should be in good shape at QB next season.

Jurk obviously has more talent, but he was MILES away from being ready this year. How much he will grown next year is to be seen. I fully expect book to start next year and play solid to start. The question is does he improve his pocket presence and downfield passing. If yes, he'll be QB all year and have a monster year, if No, we'll lose by a good bit at Georgia and the coaches will have to decide if they use the next two games to get Jurk ready for USC & UM or ride the average book train.

Book right now is extremely easy to defend if you have a capable D. Overload the run and short side of the field, play tight man and physical against our TEs and WRs to take away quick throws, make book beat you down the field. You don't even need to edge rush him, you can bull rush him and shrink the pocket, he'll panic and he's not overly athletic so a LB can easily contain him running.

 

[BGI User 348]

If Jurkovec is the QB I think he is......ND needs him to start!

 

[die4irish]

unless Books arm strength gets better and more accurate the young speedsters at wr will be wasted on bubble screens

 

[lyonhawk]

If Phil is as good as a lot of people think, I would like to see us take the Clemson/Bama route and in the first 2 games, play both QBs and see which is better. Ideally, we could have it settled before we head to Athens.

 

[Telx1]

Oh boy.... he is soft and he panicked in the pocket.... I hate it but it’s true. Should I lie? Instead of calling him soft should I say he’s not tough? Instead of saying he panics in the pocket should I just say he has terrible pocket presence? That better?

Terminology aside, I posted elsewhere that I thought Book gave up the pocket way too easily and caused sacks and short scrambles and panicked throws unnecessarily. Clemson clearly pushed him out of his comfort zone, and he looked terrible all game. Book clearly is not in the same league as the other three QBs that were in the playoffs, and he never will be. He deserves to come into Spring as the number one QB, but being the starter should not be guaranteed, but earned through competition with Phil, et al. Seniority means nothing, and experience does matter, but putting the QB on the field that gives us our best chance at winning each and every game, including the post season, should be our only criteria. My expectation is that Phil has a much higher ceiling, but whether he can perform at Book’s level to start next season is the question.

 

[d1042]

Terminology aside, I posted elsewhere that I thought Book gave up the pocket way too easily and caused sacks and short scrambles and panicked throws unnecessarily. Clemson clearly pushed him out of his comfort zone, and he looked terrible all game. Book clearly is not in the same league as the other three QBs that were in the playoffs, and he never will be. He deserves to come into Spring as the number one QB, but being the starter should not be guaranteed, but earned through competition with Phil, et al. Seniority means nothing, and experience does matter, but putting the QB on the field that gives us our best chance at winning each and every game, including the post season, should be our only criteria. My expectation is that Phil has a much higher ceiling, but whether he can perform at Book’s level to start next season is the question.

For weeks leading up to the game, I alluded to ‘how will Book respond when facing a fierce pass rush’, something about Book we did not know to that point. A lot of QB’s react as Book under such pressure.
And, it may have been in his head before the kickoff, CU has all these great pass rushers.

 

[Get Nasty]

Terminology aside, I posted elsewhere that I thought Book gave up the pocket way too easily and caused sacks and short scrambles and panicked throws unnecessarily. Clemson clearly pushed him out of his comfort zone, and he looked terrible all game. Book clearly is not in the same league as the other three QBs that were in the playoffs, and he never will be. He deserves to come into Spring as the number one QB, but being the starter should not be guaranteed, but earned through competition with Phil, et al. Seniority means nothing, and experience does matter, but putting the QB on the field that gives us our best chance at winning each and every game, including the post season, should be our only criteria. My expectation is that Phil has a much higher ceiling, but whether he can perform at Book’s level to start next season is the question.

it's exactly why i didn't like the switch from wimbush to book. Yes wimbush has his faults but he has a crazy high ceiling. He played really well in the first half of every game, then the play calling got screwy every second half. A lot of the blame on wimbush I put on Long. How would ND looked under wimbush with Dex the first 3 games? If dex hadn't been suspended i think wimbush starts the entire year. I get the change because book gives you more consistency, but Ian Books don't win championships, wimbush talent wins championships.

I was fine with the change to book only because long is the OC and he clearly has no clue how to handle an athletic QB. Still having wimbush throw quick passes behind the LOS is just flat out dumb and shows poor coaching.

Also, ND had 5 weeks to come up with packages for wimbush for this game. You have an extremely athletic player with a monster arm and you keep him with a hat on the sideline as our starting qb plays awful.

 

[Patrirish]

Notre Dame’s lopsided 30-3 loss had nothing to do with recruiting.

It had nothing to do with talent.

Those are weak excuses.

So now Furman, Georgia Southern, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, Florida State, Louisville, South Carolina, Pitt, Texas A & M and Boston College recruit better and have more talent than Notre Dame ?

Not one team on Clemson’s entire 2018 schedule scored fewer points than ND. not one team !

Furman scored 7

Georgia Southern scored 7

Georgia Tech scored 21

Syracuse scored 23

Florida State scored 10

Louisville scored 16

South Carolina scored 35

Pitt scored 10

Texas A & M scored 26

Boston College scored 7

NOTRE DAME SCORED 3

Notre Dame scored 3 after a month’s preparation!

30-3 wasn’t about recruiting and talent !

It was about preparation and coaching, including game plans and in game adjustments.

Not true you say ?

Then go back and look at the points that Clemson’s inferior opponents scored and compare them to Notre Dame’s 3 points.

Deja Vu, all over again !

 

[Get Nasty]

Pete S wrote some stats from the game after re watching

Under Pressure: 4-of-13 for 37 yards and 6 sacks No Pressure: 13-of-21 for 123 yards, INT

11 of 13 pressures were in the 2nd half. Obviously down big they did what our Dline has done the entire year late in the games. When you know the other team is throwing you just rush the passer.

Books stats with no pressure are alarming

Hope he looks at the number of times book put his head down and flushed out of the pocket when there was not pressure.

 

[mbd11]

Jurk obviously has more talent, but he was MILES away from being ready this year. How much he will grown next year is to be seen. I fully expect book to start next year and play solid to start. The question is does he improve his pocket presence and downfield passing. If yes, he'll be QB all year and have a monster year, if No, we'll lose by a good bit at Georgia and the coaches will have to decide if they use the next two games to get Jurk ready for USC & UM or ride the average book train.

Book right now is extremely easy to defend if you have a capable D. Overload the run and short side of the field, play tight man and physical against our TEs and WRs to take away quick throws, make book beat you down the field. You don't even need to edge rush him, you can bull rush him and shrink the pocket, he'll panic and he's not overly athletic so a LB can easily contain him running.

Jurkovec has physical tools similar to Trevor Lawrence's. And Clemson got him ready as a true freshman. So there's no reason we couldn't get Jurk ready as a redshirt freshman. JMO. Book is kind of like Kelly Bryant - good enough to get you to the Playoff; but not sure if he's good enough to win there.

 

[Get Nasty]

Jurkovec has physical tools similar to Trevor Lawrence's. And Clemson got him ready as a true freshman. So there's no reason we couldn't get Jurk ready as a redshirt freshman. JMO. Book is kind of like Kelly Bryant - good enough to get you to the Playoff; but not sure if he's good enough to win there.

Book is not as talented as Kelly Bryant. But I get the point you are making. Kelly Bryant and Wimbush are similar. Book just isn't lawrence, that needs to be Jurk.

If patterns hold True. Book will win out, everyone will expect improvements, they won't come. He'll play awful vs Georgia because he has no pocket presence, and is terrible passing downfield, then everyone will be screaming for Jurk.

 

[d1042]

Lawrence is a 1 in a decade QB.

 

[Get Nasty]

Lawrence is a 1 in a decade QB.

Is there 3 of them in the playoffs? He's a stud no doubt, but he made mistakes, ND just didn't make him pay, and over ran and missed sacks.

In college football, you need to be able to maneuver the pocket, get outside when you need, and make big plays. That's what 3 of the 4 qbs can and do. Book is a quick pass qb, if it's not there right away, he's toast. Don't need the number one pick at QB, but we need a qb that can extend plays, not panic in the pocket, and can make all the throws. We don't even need the QB to be as accurate as book (lawrence isn't). But with a QB like book, if you don't have a monster run game, every penalty or mistake ends the drive. you saw that vs clemson, If we got behind down and distance ND was toast. Lawrence made huge plays and throws in 3rd and medium to long.

 

[Patrirish]

Lawrence is a 1 in a decade QB.

Nonsense !

Stop anointing him as the next coming.

Compare his comfort time in the pocket to Book’s

And, How many times did Clemson play action and have their QB run to the right versus tothe left ?

Did you see any adjustments to that pattern ?

 

[Patrirish]

Book is not as talented as Kelly Bryant. But I get the point you are making. Kelly Bryant and Wimbush are similar. Book just isn't lawrence, that needs to be Jurk.

If patterns hold True. Book will win out, everyone will expect improvements, they won't come. He'll play awful vs Georgia because he has no pocket presence, and is terrible passing downfield, then everyone will be screaming for Jurk.

Tell us, how do you have pocket presence when you have no pocket ?

How do you complete 70 % of your passes if you don’t have pocket presence?

Does anyone on this site know anything about football ?

 

[lyonhawk]

Tell us, how do you have pocket presence when you have no pocket ?

How do you complete 70 % of your passes if you don’t have pocket presence?

Does anyone on this site know anything about football ?

Don't know if you saw the breakdown of Book under pressure vs. not, but even with no pressure he had a bad game.

 

[Patrirish]

Don't know if you saw the breakdown of Book under pressure vs. not, but even with no pressure he had a bad game.

On his 17 for 34, on how many of his 34 throws didn’t he have pressure ?

And, when he didn’t have pressure were his receivers covered ?

I’ll grant you that this wasn’t his best game, but let’s look at all of the factors that accounted for a sub-par performance

 

[NyyorkerND]

On his 17 for 34, on how many of his 34 throws didn’t he have pressure ?

And, when he didn’t have pressure were his receivers covered ?

I’ll grant you that this wasn’t his best game, but let’s look at all of the factors that accounted for a sub-par performance

If you watched the game again you Will clearly see Book not going past his first read on multiple plays. The pocket wasn't breaking down. He clearly wasn't ready to play and he hasn't seen all that much game action so the speed probably baffled him. But the lost wasn't only on his performance the entire team wasn't good enough. Fumbles dropped passes etc.

 

[Telx1]

it's exactly why i didn't like the switch from wimbush to book. Yes wimbush has his faults but he has a crazy high ceiling. He played really well in the first half of every game, then the play calling got screwy every second half. A lot of the blame on wimbush I put on Long. How would ND looked under wimbush with Dex the first 3 games? If dex hadn't been suspended i think wimbush starts the entire year. I get the change because book gives you more consistency, but Ian Books don't win championships, wimbush talent wins championships.

I was fine with the change to book only because long is the OC and he clearly has no clue how to handle an athletic QB. Still having wimbush throw quick passes behind the LOS is just flat out dumb and shows poor coaching.

Also, ND had 5 weeks to come up with packages for wimbush for this game. You have an extremely athletic player with a monster arm and you keep him with a hat on the sideline as our starting qb plays awful.

Kelly pulled an ineffective Wimbush from the LSU game last Bowl season and Book came in to win it. Frankly, I was surprised Kelly didn’t pull Book after the first offensive series of the third qtr. and give Wimbush a go. His strengths, running and throwing a good long ball, were needed just as they were against Michigan. When Wimbush was replaced by Book as our starter, Kelly made the point that there would be games where Wimbush’s skill set were a better match, and that both would contribute and play this season. Clemson was one such game imho.

 

[Get Nasty]

Tell us, how do you have pocket presence when you have no pocket ?

How do you complete 70 % of your passes if you don’t have pocket presence?

Does anyone on this site know anything about football ?

He had a good pocket and more than enough time in the first half. Second half down big different story.

 

[Pennick4]

The biggest problem with book is not his physical talent specifically height or arm strength it is 100% his pocket presence and his mental toughness. I’m going to say it, he is a soft typical Cali QB. We had players wide open a lot yesterday and a ton all season but if the pocket shrinks at all he panicked like a little school girl. I’m not talking pressure I’m talking staying in the pocket while it shrinks and going through progressions. Yesterday he looked at Boykin and threw it or panicked. Book wants to be like brees. Brees stays in the pocket and makes tough throws with a shrinking pocket, and he’ll deliver a strike before being hit. Book never makes a throw if he’s going to get hit. He panicks. He’s insanely accurate but he’s so soft . When he had all day this year and a wall in front of him he lit it up. I expected that to improve with his time to heal ribs and how big the game was, but no, he played so soft in the first half with no urgency. He started playing tougher in the 2nd half but it was too late and Clemson could just tee off. Book needs to grow a pair in the pocket or we’ll struggle at Georgia next year.

You are a dope. He cracked his ribs and continued to finish the game. Your brains are "soft"

 

[Leahylads]

Jurko will get his shot in the spring game. I dont think the starting qb is a lock for Book.

 

[Patrirish]

He had a good pocket and more than enough time in the first half. Second half down big different story.

Did you look and see if his receivers were open when he had time ?

What about the dropped passes ?

Were they his fault ?