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Is 2023 the best on paper Offense since 09?

Check his offensive efficiency and get back to me. 2009 had many many wasted drives.
What is “offensive efficiency”? He was #2 in the NCAA QB Rating category.

2009 had many wasted drives? Every team every year has many wasted drives. How many were wasted specifically by him? He was #2 in QB rating with 4 INT’s, one a result of a blown assignment by Michael Floyd.

Mclean and ftnfan are right. One of the most under appreciated players ever.
 
Thank you. Terrific analysis. Jimmy was a very under appreciated player after coming in with the loftiest of expectations.
Best throwing arm I have ever seen wear a Notre Dame uniform, and left after 3 seasons, while playing in a dumpster fire of a program..

That fire was extinguished.
 
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Yes they played in the NFL.. but no not great! The 3 lineman.. yes great! Fuller is not one of the greatest to play WR at ND.. he was good .. not great....Tobias alone is better than Fuller! Fuller was fast... Tobias will own anyone he goes against... Let's finish this conversation at the end of the season .. 😁
Haha...you kidding me? Fuller was one of the greatest wide receivers at Nd, the previous poster is accurate. He probably is all-pro type in NFL, but has been set back by various injuries. Definitely in the top ten of all time as a receiver at ND. I love Tobias, but please don't compare him to a first-round NFL selection yet, you are being silly.
 
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Fuller, not great, just good ?

I guess that’s why he was a first round NFL draft pick, because he was just good, not great.


I guess when you average about 100 yards a game for the season and score 14 TD’s that you’re just good, not great.

Keep your day job !
I still remember the game against USC where Fuller burned their all world safety in a foot race to the end zone
 
I would say the O-line has three NFL players that will get drafted rather high. Alt is a sure fire first rounder and the jury is still out on Billy S, but from what I heard he is turning heads. NFL running back in Audric absolutely no doubt. There is unproven talent at wide out, but having Hartman around will improve that immensely. I like the freshman crop although they are not proven. Tight end has never been an issue just insert and plug in. Speaking of Hartman, most of us will agree he is a major upgrade to what we are used to and the wild card to ND’s season as long as he stays healthy.
ESPN has ND at 9 wins and 2 losses. OSU and at Clemson. I have ND at one loss at Clemson more than enough to get into the playoffs. OSU has a new Quarterback, plus they play cup cakes their first few games. ND should blitz often after that then blitz some more. Hart and Morrison will hold their own against their wide outs. I am looking forward to it
 
What is “offensive efficiency”? He was #2 in the NCAA QB Rating category.

2009 had many wasted drives? Every team every year has many wasted drives. How many were wasted specifically by him? He was #2 in QB rating with 4 INT’s, one a result of a blown assignment by Michael Floyd.

Mclean and ftnfan are right. One of the most under appreciated players ever.
That was the passer rating, which only takes into account after the qb throws the ball. Efficiency compares points to yards. That takes into account drives that were wasted because Jimmy refused to throw the ball.
 
That was the passer rating, which only takes into account after the qb throws the ball. Efficiency compares points to yards. That takes into account drives that were wasted because Jimmy refused to throw the ball.
Could you show where this stat is? How does it definitively show that Clausen refused to throw the ball and wasted drives? Points to yards…it sounds like a team stat to me.

Its a team game. He was lights out throwing the ball and had a bad offensive line/pass protection. To override his Heisman caliber QB Rating and stats seems unfair to me.
 
Check his offensive efficiency and get back to me. 2009 had many many wasted drives.
Yeah, I’ll get back to you. I commented on Jimmy’s stats and overall performance being under appreciated. He had a fantastic arm, and and I have no idea what “wasted drives” and “offensive inefficiency” even signifies. What games? All meaningless and unsubstantiated claims. He was not on great teams, especially defensively. No doubt he had difficulties extending drives with his feet.

Jimmy Clausen, as the earlier poster commented, put up amazing stats for a three year career. He’s statistically one of Notre Dames best ever QB’s and he did it in three years. Had he stayed four years, he would have broken every meaningful passing record. Give me a break.
 
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Could you show where this stat is? How does it definitively show that Clausen refused to throw the ball and wasted drives? Points to yards…it sounds like a team stat to me.

It’s a team game. He was lights out throwing the ball and had a bad offensive line/pass protection. To override his Heisman caliber QB Rating and stats seems unfair to me.
Exactly. The poster doesn’t have stat to prove a subjective claim.
 
Yeah, I’ll get back to you. I commented on Jimmy’s stats and overall performance being under appreciated. He had a fantastic arm, and and I have no idea what “wasted drives” and “offensive inefficiency” even signifies. What games? All meaningless and unsubstantiated claims. He was not on great teams, especially defensively. No doubt he had difficulties extending drives with his feet.

Jimmy Clausen, as the earlier poster commented, put up amazing stats for a three year career. He’s statistically one of Notre Dames best ever QB’s and he did it in three years. Had he stayed four years, he would have broken every meaningful passing record. Give me a break.
For the 10th time, efficiency is how many points someone scores with all of those gaudy yards.. Focusing on Clausen's TD:Int ratio ignores all of the dead drives where he wouldn't throw the ball. We hashed this out in great detail during and after the season and it was clear the offense lost most of those games and got us in nailbiters for many of the wins.
 
That’s past history and irrelevant in 2023.
yea just like Fuller! free agent.. didn't play in 2022 and not signed by anyone .. 29 years old and done...he was "fun" to watch because of his speed that is all! By no means was he a complete WR!
 
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Haha...you kidding me? Fuller was one of the greatest wide receivers at Nd, the previous poster is accurate. He probably is all-pro type in NFL, but has been set back by various injuries. Definitely in the top ten of all time as a receiver at ND. I love Tobias, but please don't compare him to a first-round NFL selection yet, you are being silly.
well if he was an all pro type he wouldn't be injured! You are being silly! TO SMALL! Tobias is better by a mile!!!
 
For the 10th time, efficiency is how many points someone scores with all of those gaudy yards.. Focusing on Clausen's TD:Int ratio ignores all of the dead drives where he wouldn't throw the ball. We hashed this out in great detail during and after the season and it was clear the offense lost most of those games and got us in nailbiters for many of the wins.
For the 10th time, efficiency is how many points someone scores with all of those gaudy yards.. Focusing on Clausen's TD:Int ratio ignores all of the dead drives where he wouldn't throw the ball. We hashed this out in great detail during and after the season and it was clear the offense lost most of those games and got us in nailbiters for many of the wins.
Where he wouldn’t throw the ball? You have zero stats or quantitative substantiation to back up this crackpot premise. Zero.
 
yea just like Fuller! free agent.. didn't play in 2022 and not signed by anyone .. 29 years old and done...he was "fun" to watch because of his speed that is all! By no means was he a complete WR!
One of the greatest wrs in Notre Dame history easily
 
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well if he was an all pro type he wouldn't be injured! You are being silly! TO SMALL! Tobias is better by a mile!!!
Fuller was healthy at ND and one of NDs best WRs ever. yes he struggled to stay healthy in the NFL due to hamstring issues, but when healthy he was insanely dynamic in the NFL.

I know all about multiple hamstring injuries, it ended my career. I could never get back to the point of being able to sprint full speed for a full game without it tightening up.

Fuller is not an nfl great, he's an ND great. I sure hope Tobias will be better but he's done nothing to warrant that yet. If he's not really good this year, my hopes on tobias will decline. Having hartman throw you the ball is a gift you don't always get in college. hartman made a lot of good wrs look great at wake.
 
Where he wouldn’t throw the ball? You have zero stats or quantitative substantiation to back up this crackpot premise. Zero.
Pitt for one. I don't need to post stats because I did not posit that Clausen was the goat. But if you want a hot check, scroll through the box scores of the 2009 season and count in how many times the offense slept through half of the game.
 
We will know if this team is any good after weeks 3 and 5. Until then, it’s all talk. Coaching is more a concern than personnel.
 
That was the passer rating, which only takes into account after the qb throws the ball. Efficiency compares points to yards. That takes into account drives that were wasted because Jimmy refused to throw the ball.
For the 10th time, efficiency is how many points someone scores with all of those gaudy yards.. Focusing on Clausen's TD:Int ratio ignores all of the dead drives where he wouldn't throw the ball. We hashed this out in great detail during and after the season and it was clear the offense lost most of those games and got us in nailbiters for many of the wins.
Garbage.
 
I still remember the game against USC where Fuller burned their all world safety in a foot race to the end zone
That was their 5star corner, Adoree Jackson. He shook his hand right before the snap and then torched him for 75 yards over the top. One of the more savage plays we’ve had at ND!
 
We will know if this team is any good after weeks 3 and 5. Until then, it’s all talk. Coaching is more a concern than personnel.
We'll start to learn about the quality of this team week 1. Any type of offense that has playoff potential should be able to run this Navy team off the field.

Football fans tend to look at games in silos (e.g. once the week/game is over you can throw out everything about that game especially against inferior opponents) but each game, each snap even, gives us information with which we can evaluate the quality of the team by, even against widely varying quality of opposition. This is exactly what metrics like F+ do. They compare/contrast/rank all teams based on the outcome of every snap and make adjustments for lucky events and for quality of opponent.

All this to say, what we see vs Navy will give us an idea of the quality of this football team going forward. Not a great idea, but some idea.
 
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That was their 5star corner, Adoree Jackson. He shook his hand right before the snap and then torched him for 75 yards over the top. One of the more savage plays we’ve had at ND!
You're not wrong at all. That is why college football teams all across the country have no problem dolling out NIL cash to the game's best prospects.
 
Tim Brown, Rocket, Golden Tate, Michael Floyd, Lake Dawson … I’d put him in this group for sure though for me TB is in a class of his own.
Very hard position to judge unless you have stack of NFL scouting tapes. If you just glance at stats you are going to think Jimmy Clausen was better than Joe Montana.
 
Very hard position to judge unless you have stack of NFL scouting tapes. If you just glance at stats you are going to think Jimmy Clausen was better than Joe Montana.
I’m going by what I watched with my own eyes, totally subjective. I can’t compare to a receiver in the 60s like Snow who was apparently a beast but the game was much different.
 
Very hard position to judge unless you have stack of NFL scouting tapes. If you just glance at stats you are going to think Jimmy Clausen was better than Joe Montana.
Better arm, I do know that. I have never seen a better passer of the football in a Notre Dame uniform than Jimmy Clausen. Magnificent throwing arm, and only played 3 seasons.

And Tony Rice is my favorite QB of say the last 40 years, followed by Brady Quinn.
 
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Better arm, I do know that. I have never seen a better passer of the football in a Notre Dame uniform than Jimmy Clausen. Magnificent throwing arm, and only played 3 seasons.

And Tony Rice is my favorite QB of say the last 40 years, followed by Brady Quinn.
His arm wasn't great. Very accurate, yes. But average in terms of arm strength. So that was a weakness of his

Clausen was a great thrower of the football in terms of accuracy.

But in terms of arm strength, movement in the pocket and leadership he left a lor to be desired.
 
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We'll start to learn about the quality of this team week 1. Any type of offense that has playoff potential should be able to run this Navy team off the field.

Football fans tend to look at games in silos (e.g. once the week/game is over you can throw out everything about that game especially against inferior opponents) but each game, each snap even, gives us information with which we can evaluate the quality of the team by, even against widely varying quality of opposition. This is exactly what metrics like F+ do. They compare/contrast/rank all teams based on the outcome of every snap and make adjustments for lucky events and for quality of opponent.

All this to say, what we see vs Navy will give us an idea of the quality of this football team going forward. Not a great idea, but some idea.
His arm wasn't great. Very accurate, yes. But average in terms of arm strength. So that was a weakness of his

Clausen was a great thrower of the football in terms of accuracy.

But in terms of arm strength, movement in the pocket and leadership he left a lor to be desired.
This is why he was a 2nd round pick and out of the league quickly … zip and accuracy not at NFL level, still the best QB in his family.
 
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