Is 2023 the best on paper Offense since 09?

[ftnfan62]

Was thinking about how we stack up, QB is always the one spot you have to have a super star these days and we have one. Clausen was probably the last, you could argue Kizer but 2 years and unproven. Book had his moments but didnt set the records Hartman has...

If you look at the O, we have a top 5 QB, probably a top 5 RB, our line should be one of the best in the country. Lost our TE, but we reload there. WR is suspect, but you have some real talent there now.

When is the last time ND fielded a top QB and RB combo? If you plugged Hartman into the 2015 team I would say that was more talented but that teams QB was not as good.

Should be a very fun year if the BG was any indication of how fast he makes decisions on where to go.

 

[tbonesays]

In 2015 Kizer could throw to Boykin, Fuller, or St Brown, with McGlinchey, Nelson, and Ronnie Stanley on the roster. I don't see that much firepower this year even if Hartman can perform against real defenses.

 

[tbone3114]

In 2015 Kizer could throw to Boykin, Fuller, or St Brown, with McGlinchey, Nelson, and Ronnie Stanley on the roster. I don't see that much firepower this year even if Hartman can perform against real defenses.

Hmmm.. I will take this offense over that one... 3 great players from that list .. but they are all lineman... this years team will do better! I will take Hartman over Kiser ... WR's in this years team have a much higher ceiling as well!!! Estime speaks for himself!!!

 

[raulduke_007]

I think better. Our oline in 23 on paper is alot better. QB is a push, skill players id give 09 the edge but not by much...

 

[Golson5]

Hmmm.. I will take this offense over that one... 3 great players from that list .. but they are all lineman... this years team will do better! I will take Hartman over Kiser ... WR's in this years team have a much higher ceiling as well!!! Estime speaks for himself!!!

Fuller wasnt great??? Hes better than any wr on our roster by far. Hes one of the greatest wrs in ND history

Boykin didnt play in 15

But Prosise and St Brown played in the nfl for years. Smythe was on that team as well and another nfl guy

 

[Golson5]

17 team had these nfl players

Book
Adams
Dexter
Claypool
St brown
Boykin
Kmet
Smythe
Wright
Nelson
Mcglinchey
Banks
Mustipher
Bars
Hainsey
Kraemer

And thats not including Stepherson who would have been NFL

That is better on paper than this year

 

[tbone3114]

Fuller wasnt great??? Hes better than any wr on our roster by far. Hes one of the greatest wrs in ND history

Boykin didnt play in 15

But Prosise and St Brown played in the nfl for years. Smythe was on that team as well and another nfl guy

Yes they played in the NFL.. but no not great! The 3 lineman.. yes great! Fuller is not one of the greatest to play WR at ND.. he was good .. not great....Tobias alone is better than Fuller! Fuller was fast... Tobias will own anyone he goes against... Let's finish this conversation at the end of the season .. 😁

 

[Golson5]

Yes they played in the NFL.. but no not great! The 3 lineman.. yes great! Fuller is not one of the greatest to play WR at ND.. he was good .. not great....Tobias alone is better than Fuller! Fuller was fast... Tobias will own anyone he goes against... Let's finish this conversation at the end of the season .. 😁

LOL...

For Tobias to match Fullers soph yr he'll need to have 76 catches, over 1000 yards and 15tds. Good luck

Fuller is absolutely one of the greatest wrs to play at Notre Dame

 

[theskibro]

Was thinking about how we stack up, QB is always the one spot you have to have a super star these days and we have one. Clausen was probably the last, you could argue Kizer but 2 years and unproven. Book had his moments but didnt set the records Hartman has...

If you look at the O, we have a top 5 QB, probably a top 5 RB, our line should be one of the best in the country. Lost our TE, but we reload there. WR is suspect, but you have some real talent there now.

When is the last time ND fielded a top QB and RB combo? If you plugged Hartman into the 2015 team I would say that was more talented but that teams QB was not as good.

Should be a very fun year if the BG was any indication of how fast he makes decisions on where to go.

I will say this team has the potential to be best That’s because Hartman has unproven pieces around him. But as a qb, we have not had anyone in the same zip code for what seems forever.

Let’s be clear on Book. The guy was a game manager with very limited skills. People like to build him up and point to his win record. If we had a top qb we could have been a big time threat

 

[bizzybecknd]

Yes they played in the NFL.. but no not great! The 3 lineman.. yes great! Fuller is not one of the greatest to play WR at ND.. he was good .. not great....Tobias alone is better than Fuller! Fuller was fast... Tobias will own anyone he goes against... Let's finish this conversation at the end of the season .. 😁

Fuller was great, first round pick although not one of the best ever at ND - at least not top 5, prob top 10

 

[raulduke_007]

Fuller was great, first round pick although not one of the best ever at ND - at least not top 5, prob top 10

Top 5 in my book witnessed in my life time
Tim Brown (wrong era wrong system but man he was a special talent)
Tyler Eifert (bad pro career, but for ND he was money)
Golden Tate (Could of been #1 but too many key drops)
M.Floyd ( personal problems robbed him of a CFB Hof career but talent & he was dominate when he was on.)
J Shamarjiza ( nothing fancy but caught everything thrown his way & was one of the coldest white boys to play WR)
Honorable mention Fuller, Dawson, Mayes, Claypool
Never know how to exactly catagorize Rocket I feel like he was in a different category than WR.

 

[Get Nasty]

In 2015 Kizer could throw to Boykin, Fuller, or St Brown, with McGlinchey, Nelson, and Ronnie Stanley on the roster. I don't see that much firepower this year even if Hartman can perform against real defenses.

I think you are mistaken

Boykin didn’t play, st brown almost never played had one catch. After fuller it was Carlisle, brown, Mack, Robinson…. Not one played an nfl game. Carlisle brown Robinson were average talent.

 

[tbonesays]

Fuller wasnt great??? Hes better than any wr on our roster by far. Hes one of the greatest wrs in ND history

Boykin didnt play in 15

But Prosise and St Brown played in the nfl for years. Smythe was on that team as well and another nfl guy

I don't list the entire roster because ND under Kelly made so many good players wait.
But I did learn that Myles Boykin is still in the NFL.

 

[Golson5]

Top 5 in my book witnessed in my life time
Tim Brown (wrong era wrong system but man he was a special talent)
Tyler Eifert (bad pro career, but for ND he was money)
Golden Tate (Could of been #1 but too many key drops)
M.Floyd ( personal problems robbed him of a CFB Hof career but talent & he was dominate when he was on.)
J Shamarjiza ( nothing fancy but caught everything thrown his way & was one of the coldest white boys to play WR)
Honorable mention Fuller, Dawson, Mayes, Claypool
Never know how to exactly catagorize Rocket I feel like he was in a different category than WR.

Eifert is a tight end

 

[Golson5]

Fuller was great, first round pick although not one of the best ever at ND - at least not top 5, prob top 10

Not top 10... that's absolutely crazy talk

 

[mbd11]

Yes they played in the NFL.. but no not great! The 3 lineman.. yes great! Fuller is not one of the greatest to play WR at ND.. he was good .. not great....Tobias alone is better than Fuller! Fuller was fast... Tobias will own anyone he goes against... Let's finish this conversation at the end of the season .. 😁

Fuller was really good. He had over 1,000 yds and 15 and 14 TDs, respectively, his sophomore and junior years. He was easily our best WR during the Kelly era.

As for the OP's question, I think it may be. And it may be better than 2009 overall, because the OL should be a lot better.

 

[mirer03]

Big on potential. I think it could be special if unleashed, but I'm a little concerned that we will stick to a conservative approach. If they vary the running game up more zone blocking I think it could be really special.

 

[ftnfan62]

In 2015 Kizer could throw to Boykin, Fuller, or St Brown, with McGlinchey, Nelson, and Ronnie Stanley on the roster. I don't see that much firepower this year even if Hartman can perform against real defenses.

NO doubt, that 2015 team was stacked and BK's best. Don't forget Procise at RB. BUT, Kizer was not Hartman and the one spot that touches it every down is the QB.

 

[ftnfan62]

17 team had these nfl players

Book
Adams
Dexter
Claypool
St brown
Boykin
Kmet
Smythe
Wright
Nelson
Mcglinchey
Banks
Mustipher
Bars
Hainsey
Kraemer

And thats not including Stepherson who would have been NFL

That is better on paper than this year

With the largest exception, QB. The most important position.

 

[IrishBeer]

Hartman is not Jimmy Clausen.

 

[mirer03]

Fuller was really good. He had over 1,000 yds and 15 and 14 TDs, respectively, his sophomore and junior years. He was easily our best WR during the Kelly era.

As for the OP's question, I think it may be. And it may be better than 2009 overall, because the OL should be a lot better.

He was but I'd really rather see a fully dynamic offense where there are multiple threats and we pass all over vs highlighting a single wr. We have the talent to take advantage of weak links in the defense and have a QB that can make the throws.

 

[Get Nasty]

Big on potential. I think it could be special if unleashed, but I'm a little concerned that we will stick to a conservative approach. If they vary the running game up more zone blocking I think it could be really special.

You can do so many things with a qb that can make quick good decisions and accurate throws with our multiple talent while also pushing the ball downfield …. If tyree is actually good in the slot having him and estime on the field at the same time with a te like staes and big wrs like Thomas and Tobias, and Tobias speed… really no other team has that this year …. I would be disappointed if this offense doesn’t average the most ppg in history of ND

 

[Get Nasty]

Hartman is not Jimmy Clausen.

That’s ok… he moves way better than him

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Our receivers were under-utilized last year....so there questions about how much more effective they will be this year. One thing we seem to lack is that solid, experienced tight end. Otherwise, there is plenty of team speed on offense, combined with a very promising running game. Hartman, if he stays healthy, should bring out the best in the weapons around him. But the best offense since 09? Remains to be seen.

 

[Golson5]

With the largest exception, QB. The most important position.

Book was on that team. And he's not as good as Hartman but the gap isn't that great. Where as 17 wins everywhere else probably

 

[mbd11]

Book was on that team. And he's not as good as Hartman but the gap isn't that great. Where as 17 wins everywhere else probably

Wimbush was the starter that year, though.

 

[mbd11]

Our receivers were under-utilized last year....so there questions about how much more effective they will be this year. One thing we seem to lack is that solid, experienced tight end. Otherwise, there is plenty of team speed on offense, combined with a very promising running game. Hartman, if he stays healthy, should bring out the best in the weapons around him. But the best offense since 09? Remains to be seen.

Hopefully TE will work out fine; it usually does at ND. Evans didn't catch a lot of passes last year, but he seems quite capable of being a solid TE, and the other guys have a lot of potential as well.

 

[rrdd2021]

The ND offense vs the supposedly improved OSU defense should tell alot about both teams early.

As for the OSU offense.....forget it, they're going to move the ball on everyone. Their skill players are the best in the country.

 

[sjb75]

The ND offense vs the supposedly improved OSU defense should tell alot about both teams early.

As for the OSU offense.....forget it, they're going to move the ball on everyone. Their skill players are the best in the country.

Tell those last 9 words to Michigan, who has kicked OSU's collective asses the last two seasons.

 

[tbonesays]

Hartman is not Jimmy Clausen.

And the 2009 team is being inflated by the memory of some NFL careers that followed. Most of the close games happened not because the defense let them down but because the offense skipped the middle of the game.

 

[sjb75]

And the 2009 team is being inflated by the memory of some NFL careers that followed. Most of the close games happened not because the defense let them down but because the offense skipped the middle of the game.

Maybe that's why the "...schematic advantage..." head coach was fired after the 2009 season.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Not top 10... that's absolutely crazy talk

Definition of probably =‘Not? Huh. No problem putting Eifert/Mayer on this list as they split wide often and become WRs at that point. Floyd, Tate, Brown, Mayes, Samardizja are my Top 5 in no particular order.

 

[NCDomer1]

I will say this team has the potential to be best That’s because Hartman has unproven pieces around him. But as a qb, we have not had anyone in the same zip code for what seems forever.

Let’s be clear on Book. The guy was a game manager with very limited skills. People like to build him up and point to his win record. If we had a top qb we could have been a big time threat

Quinn was pretty good, but not Clausen.

 

[Patrirish]

Yes they played in the NFL.. but no not great! The 3 lineman.. yes great! Fuller is not one of the greatest to play WR at ND.. he was good .. not great....Tobias alone is better than Fuller! Fuller was fast... Tobias will own anyone he goes against... Let's finish this conversation at the end of the season .. 😁

Fuller, not great, just good ?

I guess that’s why he was a first round NFL draft pick, because he was just good, not great.

I guess when you average about 100 yards a game for the season and score 14 TD’s that you’re just good, not great.

Keep your day job !

 

[Patrirish]

Tell those last 9 words to Michigan, who has kicked OSU's collective asses the last two seasons.

That’s past history and irrelevant in 2023.

 

[ftnfan62]

Quinn was pretty good, but not Clausen.

Clausen would hold every record ND has if he played all four years. Here is his three year stats. I think he was pretty pretty good.

For his career, Clausen passed for 8,148 yards and 60 touchdowns. His 8,148 yards ranks second all-time and his 60 touchdowns ranks third. He also ranks second all-time in completion percentage (62.6%), attempts (1,110), completions (695), 300-yard passing games (10) and he is Notre Dame’s all-time leader in lowest interception ratio (2.43%). 4.

 

[Patrirish]

Clausen would hold every record ND has if he played all four years. Here is his three year stats. I think he was pretty pretty good.

For his career, Clausen passed for 8,148 yards and 60 touchdowns. His 8,148 yards ranks second all-time and his 60 touchdowns ranks third. He also ranks second all-time in completion percentage (62.6%), attempts (1,110), completions (695), 300-yard passing games (10) and he is Notre Dame’s all-time leader in lowest interception ratio (2.43%). 4.

That’s certainly impressive !

 

[rrdd2021]

Tell those last 9 words to Michigan, who has kicked OSU's collective asses the last two seasons.

What's that have to do with 2023 ? If OSU can even field an average defense - for a change - they'll roll everybody they play.

 

[mcleanva1]

Clausen would hold every record ND has if he played all four years. Here is his three year stats. I think he was pretty pretty good.

For his career, Clausen passed for 8,148 yards and 60 touchdowns. His 8,148 yards ranks second all-time and his 60 touchdowns ranks third. He also ranks second all-time in completion percentage (62.6%), attempts (1,110), completions (695), 300-yard passing games (10) and he is Notre Dame’s all-time leader in lowest interception ratio (2.43%). 4.

Thank you. Terrific analysis. Jimmy was a very under appreciated player after coming in with the loftiest of expectations.

 

[tbonesays]

Thank you. Terrific analysis. Jimmy was a very under appreciated player after coming in with the loftiest of expectations.

Check his offensive efficiency and get back to me. 2009 had many many wasted drives.