The harsh reality

[banmate6]

I get it, but you are assuming they invest that entire amount. These schools aren't dropping $5million on a kid. Add in the fact posters on this forum are claiming it's cash, hence non reportable to uncle sam. Yeah ok, good luck opening up an investment account or buying assets. The government will want to know where that money came from.
So let's just say a $2 million NIL deal. Realistically will have to report and get taxed on that which will leave $1.2 net. They'll probably buy a nice house, cash at 500-600k, they've got to have that 100k+ ride for themselves and their parents, that leaves a little 400k to work with if they invest it properly. Based on statistics of pro athletes blowing their fortunes, I highly doubt an 18!year old is going to have better success. That's the reality. some will, but most will blow it before they graduate.

I know the statistics are not good regarding the fate of ex-college football athletes socioeconomically.

Finance actually bamboozles some lawyers, doctors, and other educated folks, never mind college football players that skated by academically.

But this is the opportunity, to change this, starting with NIL money with college football players.

Basic finance. Entrepreneurship. Real estate. Venture capital and angel investing.

We're talking about Notre Dame, an elite school with an alumni that could do this with extreme success.

BTW: I do pro bono financial advisory and help out friends and colleagues in finance. You'd be surprised how many folks I help out that get irate just explaining the S&P500 9% CAGR and rule of 72. A light bulb pops...and they get angry with themselves at the simplicity, kicking themselves why they didn't start earlier.

College football players with NIL money can see finance come alive. I bet they'd be riveted in their progressive finance courses. Maybe work with other ND students and alumni? Becoming grateful and strong alumni who advocate academics.

I really believe Notre Dame could do this better than anybody if it was committed to it.

 

[NDinNJ]

I know the statistics are not good regarding the fate of ex-college football athletes socioeconomically.

Finance actually bamboozles some lawyers, doctors, and other educated folks, never mind college football players that skated by academically.

But this is the opportunity, to change this, starting with NIL money with college football players.

Basic finance. Entrepreneurship. Real estate. Venture capital and angel investing.

We're talking about Notre Dame, an elite school with an alumni that could do this with extreme success.

BTW: I do pro bono financial advisory and help out friends and colleagues in finance. You'd be surprised how many folks I help out that get irate just explaining the S&P500 9% CAGR and rule of 72. A light bulb pops...and they get angry with themselves at the simplicity, kicking themselves why they didn't start earlier.

College football players with NIL money can see finance come alive. I bet they'd be riveted in their progressive finance courses. Maybe work with other ND students and alumni? Becoming grateful and strong alumni who advocate academics.

I really believe Notre Dame could do this better than anybody if it was committed to it.

I agree with what you are saying, however this is not the reality of today. Today, these kids are given 7 figures to come to a school to play football and given zero advice on what they should do with this windfall. 80-90% will squander the upfront money they receive, a small percentage will make sound investments as what you've suggested. This is the reality.

The financial aspect is just one of many problems with upfront payments to these athletes coming out of high school. What happens if player A accepts to receive $2 million to play football at school A, then a year or two later decides to transfer because they are being offered a large sum of money by school B to come play football for them?
What happens if player B accepts and receive $2 million to play for school B, but gets injured or doesn't live up to the schools expectations?

It's the wild west with NIL and "acquisition fees" and if rules aren't enforced it's going to hurt the athletes in the long run. Investing 7 figures into an 18 year old, there is going to be an expectation of an ROI. If the desired results aren't achieved, these athletes don't pan out, or transfer after a year for another pay day, the donors are going to eventually ask themselves if these investments are worth it.

Pro sports has more rules in place then college football does at this point. Nothing at the college level is being enforced and at some point the pendulum is going to swing back unless a structure is put in place and rules are enforced.

 

[TorontoHrvat]

I've been immersed in the soccer World Cup. The real football. But am back to rooting for Notre Dame.

Never left. But I'll repeat my mantra that I've learned since Holtz left: ND remains at a serious disadvantage in recruiting stars in depth for football. More so now that ever with the de facto semipro restructuring of the sport.

Give it 2-3 years for the transfer, NIL, and academic accommodation at many schools to kick in. I still think ND can adapt and actually use this to become elite again. Have a progressive degree program, going a social good yes, pay the players with big alumni money; and offer business dev and investing advice, using the elite academics to effect.

I read some interesting posts on this site about all this. Gotta be honest: some of the alumni come off as hypocritical and uncreative when asserting they'd rather ND be mediocre than sell itself out. Really? You think ND didn't engage in some academic accommodation in th good old days? The clean up came at the end of the Holtz years.

I don't judge anybody here. Fine, I'm not an alumni. But I am a Catholic immigrant to the USA, for whom ND was an iconic Catholic identity in sports. I will always follow the team...but you can bet younger generations won't if the Fighting Irish don't merit this iconic name.

Like I keep saying, there can be accommodation, evolution, and elite performance...and yet maintain the high academic, social, and spiritual class Notre Dame has built, not least leveraging football across the decades.

Just me 2 cents as a long time subway far.

Lastly: I give Coach Freeman a solid B for his 1st year. But in the context of this discussion, man does he face serious headwinds of even faster college football change.

And what another great run it was for us...loved it. Beating Brazil was sweet...

And hammering the loud mouth Canadians with that loser coach Herdman and his "eff Croatia" crap...was poetic justice. Loved Kramaric's post game comment about we showed Herdmann who effed whom...lol)

 

[Patrirish]

Lot of pro athletes are very smart with their money as well. Some are, some arent. Just like in real life.

Not true, the significant majority go broke or experience financial distress within 5 years of retiring. Very few are smart with their money

 

[Patrirish]

So what percent is bankrupt and what percent is severe financial distress and what determines severe financial distress?

Because in the real world probably 90 percent of people suffer from severe financial distress at some point in their lives

And many athletes do extremely well after they play. It's just like life

I know plenty of people who graduated college and couldn't get a job and suffer financial distress. They have to move back home

In the real world average people aren’t making 7 figures a year.

When you’re confronted with a fact that destroys your position you try to divert the issue.

The fact is that the great majority, that would be 80 %, are broke or financially distressed within 5 years of retirement after making millions per year.

Statistically, very few are financially set for life.

So you’re dead wrong, again !

 

[Patrirish]

I agree with what you are saying, however this is not the reality of today. Today, these kids are given 7 figures to come to a school to play football and given zero advice on what they should do with this windfall. 80-90% will squander the upfront money they receive, a small percentage will make sound investments as what you've suggested. This is the reality.

The financial aspect is just one of many problems with upfront payments to these athletes coming out of high school. What happens if player A accepts to receive $2 million to play football at school A, then a year or two later decides to transfer because they are being offered a large sum of money by school B to come play football for them?
What happens if player B accepts and receive $2 million to play for school B, but gets injured or doesn't live up to the schools expectations?

It's the wild west with NIL and "acquisition fees" and if rules aren't enforced it's going to hurt the athletes in the long run. Investing 7 figures into an 18 year old, there is going to be an expectation of an ROI. If the desired results aren't achieved, these athletes don't pan out, or transfer after a year for another pay day, the donors are going to eventually ask themselves if these investments are worth it.

Pro sports has more rules in place then college football does at this point. Nothing at the college level is being enforced and at some point the pendulum is going to swing back unless a structure is put in place and rules are enforced.

A very good friend of mine has owned an NFL team for many years.
My friend is very successful, a billionaire.
In the entire time that he has owned the team, guess how many players have approached him fo financial advice ?

ZERO !

What does that tell you about their financial acumen ?

 

[NDinNJ]

And what another great run it was for us...loved it. Beating Brazil was sweet...

And hammering the loud mouth Canadians with that loser coach Herdman and his "eff Croatia" crap...was poetic justice. Loved Kramaric's post game comment about we showed Herdmann who effed whom...lol)

A very good friend of mine has owned an NFL team for many years.
My friend is very successful, a billionaire.
In the entire time that he has owned the team, guess how many players have approached him fo financial advice ?

ZERO !

What does that tell you about their financial acumen ?

The athletes do invest their money, but sadly more times than not they are poor investments or investments that require someone trustworthy to manage the investment.

 

[NDinNJ]

In the real world average people aren’t making 7 figures a year.

When you’re confronted with a fact that destroys your position you try to divert the issue.

The fact is that the great majority, that would be 80 %, are broke or financially distressed within 5 years of retirement after making millions per year.

Statistically, very few are financially set for life.

So you’re dead wrong, again !

Exactly! Don't know how Golson can even compare the average person with athletes earning close to 7 figures per year or more..

Give me $2 million, and I won't be buying that 100K car or 500-600k house. I'll invest that $2 million so it earns more money for me, where you get to a point where you no longer have to work for money because your money is working for you. Wish I knew this at 18 😂

 

[Golson5]

Again the statistics are 80% struggle. It's not some struggle and some excel, MOST struggle.

Yeah thats life. Some people declare bankruptcy, some struggle, some will excel.

 

[Golson5]

Exactly! Don't know how Golson can even compare the average person with athletes earning close to 7 figures per year or more..

Give me $2 million, and I won't be buying that 100K car or 500-600k house. I'll invest that $2 million so it earns more money for me, where you get to a point where you no longer have to work for money because your money is working for you. Wish I knew this at 18 😂

You won't. I wouldn't.

But there's plenty of people out there who struggle every day.

 

[NDinNJ]

Yeah thats life. Some people declare bankruptcy, some struggle, some will excel.

Are you dumb? Most people aren't earning. close to 7 figures per year. Median income is $54k in the US..You can't compare the average Joe to NFL
players making 750K+/year. You are an idiot if you do.

 

[NDinNJ]

You won't. I wouldn't.

But there's plenty of people out there who struggle every day.

Again you are comparing the average person to nfl players who are in the top 1% of earners. You can't compare a guy making 60-70k per year struggling to put food on the table to feed his family with a guy that's in the Top 1% of earners. This shows how dumb you are.

 

[Golson5]

Are you dumb? Most people aren't earning. close to 7 figures per year. Median income is $54k in the US..You can't compare the average Joe to NFL
players making 750K+/year. You are an idiot if you do.

Regardless of how much money you make, you have to live in your means. If you make 55k you can easily live a lifestyle where you don't struggle. But people make bad choices.

Doesn't matter if you make 55k, 150k, 750k, 5mil, 50mil.

Making good decisions and choices you don't have to struggle regardless of how much you make

But people still make bad choices regardless if they make less than players or more than players

 

[NDinNJ]

Regardless of how much money you make, you have to live in your means. If you make 55k you can easily live a lifestyle where you don't struggle. But people make bad choices.

Doesn't matter if you make 55k, 150k, 750k, 5mil, 50mil.

Making good decisions and choices you don't have to struggle regardless of how much you make

But people still make bad choices regardless if they make less than players or more than players

But in the case of NFL players, 80% which is not some, but MOST, squander their fortunes and are broke. That's not the case for MOST average People making a modest income.

 

[IrishMike409]

COWARD !

I knew that you would weasel out of the bet, even a bet where you set the stakes.

Let‘s not forget that it was YOU who called me a liar.

Is that your weapon of choice, calling people liars ….

And then when confronted with the possibility of being proven wrong and being held accountable for your slanderous accusation you slink away, just like the big mouthed coward that you are

When I challenged you on the veracity of my statement, like the coward you are you slink away under a weak excuse of making soup.
Hey, try the recipe for humiliation pie, it suits you better !

You’re a coward !

A coward hiding behind anonymity, who calls someone a liar and when challenged on your accusation you slink away like the coward that you are !

You should wear ”The scarlet letter “C” at all times, you coward !

Coward? Because he doesn’t want to engage in an internet message board bet, and wild anonymous back and forth name calling, on Christmas Eve?

This board goes further and further into the abyss everyday. Pretty sad. There’s about 20 really solid posters. Then 1000000000 jerks.

 

[banmate6]

And what another great run it was for us...loved it. Beating Brazil was sweet...

And hammering the loud mouth Canadians with that loser coach Herdman and his "eff Croatia" crap...was poetic justice. Loved Kramaric's post game comment about we showed Herdmann who effed whom...lol)

Some people will NEVER understand this dimension of sports fellowship. I love Notre Dame and it is a Catholic and American component of my identity. But when CROATIA plays for the World Cup....noting compares.

I watched Notre vs USC, but my mind was so much on the World Cup. If I didn't know it before, having college football at the same time as Croatia in a serious competition showed where my mind, heart, and soul are at. Don't get me wrong, as I love the Fighting Irish...but Croatia winning the WC would be my 1st choice for Football Heaven.

Not least, because the Croatian FA actually does all it can to develop players and make winning the WC a reality. For all the corruption in Croatia, they 1st do this right and then steal from the profits!

The Croatian FA, the HNS, need to sit down with the Priests of Notre Dame and impart some Catholic advice.

 

[banmate6]

Guys, this aspect of personal finance is fascinating and relevant to modern college football. Clearly this topic is a failure of American education in general, not to open a can of worms and go too deep here. But it is an opportunity for colleges to rethink and restructure curriculum here...never mind for football players who apparently now will be getting significant money.

Again, Notre Dame can be in the forefront of leading and doing this right. It seems such a straight forward business and moral proposition to me: combine the ND brand, deep pockets, and winning to produce great teams commanding 3-4 year loyalty while graduating great football players as well as young men prepared to handle life responsibly.

Particularly in the realm of personal finance, which has been the bane of so many bad things in our otherwise great and prosperous country. We have a 134%+ debt:gdp ratio. Anyways, sorry to go off so much on serious topics, just trying to tie it to how Notre Dame can stay competitive.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year you all. Fingers crossed that Notre Dame can figure it all out.

 

[Patrirish]

I know the statistics are not good regarding the fate of ex-college football athletes socioeconomically.

Finance actually bamboozles some lawyers, doctors, and other educated folks, never mind college football players that skated by academically.

But this is the opportunity, to change this, starting with NIL money with college football players.

Basic finance. Entrepreneurship. Real estate. Venture capital and angel investing.

We're talking about Notre Dame, an elite school with an alumni that could do this with extreme success.

BTW: I do pro bono financial advisory and help out friends and colleagues in finance. You'd be surprised how many folks I help out that get irate just explaining the S&P500 9% CAGR and rule of 72. A light bulb pops...and they get angry with themselves at the simplicity, kicking themselves why they didn't start earlier.

College football players with NIL money can see finance come alive. I bet they'd be riveted in their progressive finance courses. Maybe work with other ND students and alumni? Becoming grateful and strong alumni who advocate academics.

I really believe Notre Dame could do this better than anybody if it was committed to it.

One of the problems I see is the lack of mentoring and the lack of sophistication, which starts at home.

Absent a premium education most of these players will cede their financial well being to strangers and non-related agents. In many cases those individuals squander the players money, for a variety of reasons.

You make a valid point about doctors.
Quite often they’re so busy practicing medicine that they neglect their financial affairs or cede them to third parties, who may or may not do well by them.
Billy Joel is a perfect example of someone who made millions who ceded oversight of his financial affairs to a third party who lost or spent most of his money.

Absent a good education most players will cede financial authority to third parties and they’ll fail to exercise oversight over that third party because they lack the tools to fill that roll.

The NFL tries to provide a measure of advice to rookies on the perils they face now that they’re flush with money.

Many years ago “Home Economics” was a high school course which taught financial basics.

So yes, ND could offer courses in finance, from basic to sophisticated.
Perhaps ND already offers these courses, I don’t know, but then again, you can lead a horse to water ….. Will the players take those courses and will they take those courses seriously ?

It all goes back to mentoring, teaching young men to respect money and to come to the understanding that there may only be a limited amount of time in which to earn it.

Don King and Mike Tyson might be exhibit “A” in this debate.

 

[Patrirish]

Coward? Because he doesn’t want to engage in an internet message board bet, and wild anonymous back and forth name calling, on Christmas Eve?

This board goes further and further into the abyss everyday. Pretty sad. There’s about 20 really solid posters. Then 1000000000 jerks.

No, he’s a coward because he called me a liar and then HE was the one who suggested that HE wanted to bet me..

I didn’t initiate the bet, he did !

He rejected betting money and suggested betting posting privileges, which I immediately accepted ! But as soon as I accepted HIS BET, he went slinking away into hiding like the coward that he is.

Where’s your indignation over him calling me a liar ?

I would think that you would support posting with a high degree of accountability.

Don‘t you think that he should be accountable for his posts ?
Don‘t you think that he should keep his word with his challenge to bet me ?

Or do you think that calling someone a liar and then running away and hiding is acceptable behavior ?

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

 

[Patrirish]

You won't. I wouldn't.

But there's plenty of people out there who struggle every day.

Except that they never made millions per year.

You’re either obtuse or very obtuse !

Someone said that you’re clueless and I can’t argue with them on that point !

 

[Golson5]

Except that they never made millions per year.

You’re either obtuse or very obtuse !

Someone said that you’re clueless and I can’t argue with them on that point !

How much money you make its not relevant. No matter if you make a little money or a lot of money or a ton of money, you have to make good decisions

And people from all those backgrounds continue to make mistakes

 

[IrishMike409]

No, he’s a coward because he called me a liar and then HE was the one who suggested that HE wanted to bet me..

I didn’t initiate the bet, he did !

He rejected betting money and suggested betting posting privileges, which I immediately accepted ! But as soon as I accepted HIS BET, he went slinking away into hiding like the coward that he is.

Where’s your indignation over him calling me a liar ?

I would think that you would support posting with a high degree of accountability.

Don‘t you think that he should be accountable for his posts ?
Don‘t you think that he should keep his word with his challenge to bet me ?

Or do you think that calling someone a liar and then running away and hiding is acceptable behavior ?

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

I haven’t been able to keep up with every post in the thread. Clearly it’s gone off the tracks.

What you post is a always easy to see because of the font, so you screaming that he’s a coward because he wouldn’t bet, stood out.

If he initiated this and called you names, then he’s wrong for doing that.

 

[hvillebill]

Except that they never made millions per year.

You’re either obtuse or very obtuse !

Someone said that you’re clueless and I can’t argue with them on that point !

What exactly is your problem in that you feel the need to use an enormous font and always in bold?

Why can't you simply post like everyone else?

 

[timklaus]

Cash in McDonalds bags is not taxed. And if you are good enough and you privately request cash, you will get cash.

Do you know what happens when you deposit $10K or more in a bank in a single transaction? Mandatory reporting to US government. That will not only result in that money being taxed but likely penalties for avoiding taxation. Yes, you can not deposit in a bank to avoid the taxes but I highly doubt that money will last and certainly will not grow if that route is taken.

 

[banmate6]

How much money you make its not relevant. No matter if you make a little money or a lot of money or a ton of money, you have to make good decisions

And people from all those backgrounds continue to make mistakes

The last sentence is stunningly correct. To the point it’s a national crisis. Our national culture needs to reset and rethink this important dimension of life.

I still can’t believe the NCAA and pro sports don’t address this either. Many athletes especially are vulnerable, the pros seemingly more so.

I wonder how ND football players compare between pro and those who didn’t go pro here?

 

[Patrirish]

How much money you make its not relevant. No matter if you make a little money or a lot of money or a ton of money, you have to make good decisions

And people from all those backgrounds continue to make mistakes

If you don’t make much money and live week to week, paycheck to paycheck, you’re not confronted with a lot of decisions.

When you make a lot of money you have a lot of decisions because you have so much disposable income.

NFL players have an enormous amount of disposable income, ergo more decisions.

One of the problems associated with suddenly becoming rich is that friends, acquaintances and family come out of the woodwork and become drains on that income.

Absent mentoring and prudent parental guidance 22 year olds who suddenly come into a financial windfall make ill advised decisions.

When an agent resists the request for funds from the player for prudent reasons, it’s not unusual for the player to fire the agent and replace them with a more malleable agent.

As another poster mentioned, it would be beneficial for ND to offer a course in financial managemen. My suggestion would be to make those classes mandator.

 

[Patrirish]

The last sentence is stunningly correct. To the point it’s a national crisis. Our national culture needs to reset and rethink this important dimension of life.

I still can’t believe the NCAA and pro sports don’t address this either. Many athletes especially are vulnerable, the pros seemingly more so.

I wonder how ND football players compare between pro and those who didn’t go pro here?

The NFL does make an effort to educate the rookies on the perils in the social and financial arena, The problem is:

You can lead a horse to water ……..

 

[Patrirish]

What exactly is your problem in that you feel the need to use an enormous font and always in bold?

Why can't you simply post like everyone else?

Can’t you read ?
I already indicated that it’s a vision problem.

Ask the creater/s of the site why they provide the font and bold option.

If font size and bolding are a problem for you, you have bigger problems !

 

[Golson5]

If you don’t make much money and live week to week, paycheck to paycheck, you’re not confronted with a lot of decisions.

When you make a lot of money you have a lot of decisions because you have so much disposable income.

NFL players have an enormous amount of disposable income, ergo more decisions.

One of the problems associated with suddenly becoming rich is that friends, acquaintances and family come out of the woodwork and become drains on that income.

Absent mentoring and prudent parental guidance 22 year olds who suddenly come into a financial windfall make ill advised decisions.

When an agent resists the request for funds from the player for prudent reasons, it’s not unusual for the player to fire the agent and replace them with a more malleable agent.

As another poster mentioned, it would be beneficial for ND to offer a course in financial managemen. My suggestion would be to make those classes mandator.

You definitely are confronted with decsions.

Its the same challenges just with less money.

The person maybe should rent a place for 1k and buy a 20k car and theyd be able to live comfortable for their means. But they get a 1700k apartment and a 30k car.

Now they are living paycheck to paycheck and are in a real struggle. If they get laid off at work or injured they are screwed. That happens and now they are really hurting

I agree with your last few points

 

[Patrirish]

I haven’t been able to keep up with every post in the thread. Clearly it’s gone off the tracks.

What you post is a always easy to see because of the font, so you screaming that he’s a coward because he wouldn’t bet, stood out.

If he initiated this and called you names, then he’s wrong for doing that.

No problem, he called me a liar, then said that he would bet anything that I was lying, and when I accepted his bet, with posting privileges as the stakes, he turned and ran away like a coward.

That’s his M.O.

 

[hvillebill]

Can’t you read ?
I already indicated that it’s a vision problem.

Ask the creater/s of the site why they provide the font and bold option.

If font size and bolding are a problem for you, you have bigger problems !

Yes, I can read!!!!

I've not read every single one of your posts because I don't follow you, so I was not aware of that when you explained it. My bad.

 

[Patrirish]

Yes, I can read!!!!

I've not read every single one of your posts because I don't follow you, so I was not aware of that when you explained it. My bad.

Not to worry, looking at computer screens all day has taken its toll, I have a blue light screen over my monitors and I just ordered special glasses from Gunnar Optiks in an attempt to improve or at least freeze the decline in my eyesight. I’ve had at least a dozen eye procedures, detached retinas and Scleral Buckles. We tend to take our eyesight for granted until it starts to deteriorate.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

 

[IrishMike409]

Not to worry, looking at computer screens all day has taken its toll, I have a blue light screen over my monitors and I just ordered special glasses from Gunnar Optiks in an attempt to improve or at least freeze the decline in my eyesight. I’ve had at least a dozen eye procedures, detached retinas and Scleral Buckles. We tend to take our eyesight for granted until it starts to deteriorate.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Merry Christmas Pat.

Can’t wait for Friday….

 

[Patrirish]

Agreed, Friday can’t come soon enough !

Go Irish 🍀