The harsh reality

[Patrirish]

I'll bet anything because you're clearly wrong. Is this going to be like the pylon thread ? I randomly selected one NFL team the Buffalo Bills. They currently have 11 rookies on their roster. There are 31 other NFL teams. Fair to assume they all have at a minimum 6 rookies on their roster given the number of draft picks and signing bonus money paid out. Care to do the math ? I'll wait. I highly doubt you were dining with an NFL team President. Now you may have served him dinner or washed his dirty dishes. Who knows ?

Before you lose “everything” you’d better be clear on the terms of the bet

It starts with understanding the difference in the time frame, the difference between the words “annual” and “cumulative“.

Learn how to read you moron.

You “highly doubt that I had dinner with the President of an NFL team this Tuesday”. What would you like to bet on that ? “Everything“. Again ?
You’re pretty bold knowing that you can say anything you want without any consequences. So let’s introduce consequences !
Seriously, big mouth, what would you like to bet ?

We can both send cashiers checks made out to each other to a third party, like TB Sr. He can hold the checks and if I provide proof of who I had dinner with this past Tuesday, I keep both checks. And if I can’t, you keep both checks. Since you’re willing to bet “everything”. How about starting off with just $ 20,000.

So what do you say big shot, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is ?

 

[echowaker]

Before you lose “everything” you’d better be clear on the terms of the bet

It starts with understanding the difference in the time frame, the difference between the words “annual” and “cumulative“.

Learn how to read you moron.

You “highly doubt that I had dinner with the President of an NFL team this Tuesday”. What would you like to bet on that ? “Everything“. Again ?
You’re pretty bold knowing that you can say anything you want without any consequences. So let’s introduce consequences !
Seriously, big mouth, what would you like to bet ?

We can both send cashiers checks made out to each other to a third party, like TB Sr. He can hold the checks and if I provide proof of who I had dinner with this past Tuesday, I keep both checks. And if I can’t, you keep both checks. Since you’re willing to bet “everything”. How about starting off with just $ 20,000.

So what do you say big shot, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is ?

I know how to read just fine. You asked what percentage of players drafted were on NFL rosters. Your words, not mine. Your " number crunching " was way off. So which NFL team president was sitting at the table you bussed ?

 

[echowaker]

Before you lose “everything” you’d better be clear on the terms of the bet

It starts with understanding the difference in the time frame, the difference between the words “annual” and “cumulative“.

Learn how to read you moron.

You “highly doubt that I had dinner with the President of an NFL team this Tuesday”. What would you like to bet on that ? “Everything“. Again ?
You’re pretty bold knowing that you can say anything you want without any consequences. So let’s introduce consequences !
Seriously, big mouth, what would you like to bet ?

We can both send cashiers checks made out to each other to a third party, like TB Sr. He can hold the checks and if I provide proof of who I had dinner with this past Tuesday, I keep both checks. And if I can’t, you keep both checks. Since you’re willing to bet “everything”. How about starting off with just $ 20,000.

So what do you say big shot, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is ?

Don't need or want your money. How about we bet posting privileges ?

 

[Patrirish]

I can easily see this becoming another " pylon " thread. You're so woefully uninformed again about the subject matter in a thread you yourself started. The bottom line is that in any given NFL draft the vast majority of the players drafted make NFL rosters.

You’re too stupid to understand the numbers and the concept.

So let me give you an easy one to start with.

How many kids are playing High School Football ? 1,050,000 +

How many players are drafted by the NFL each year ? 259

How many of those 259 make an NFL roster ? 30 % ? 50 % ?

259 divided by 1,050,000 equals what ? .0002 ?
130 divided by 1,050,000 equals what ? .0001 ?

Even if I take 262,500 and divide it into 259 you get .000986666.

Now do you understand ?

What did you major in at Michigan State ?
Surely it couldn't have been math or reading comprehension !

 

[Patrirish]

Don't need or want your money. How about we bet posting privileges ?

The truth is that you dont want to risk losing a significant amount of money !.

”Posting privileges”. ABSOLUTELY

How about a lifetime ban ?
A “lifetime ban” under any and all names ?

Are you in big mouth ?

 

[Patrirish]

I know how to read just fine. You asked what percentage of players drafted were on NFL rosters. Your words, not mine. Your " number crunching " was way off. So which NFL team president was sitting at the table you bussed ?

No I didn’t you moron, I cited the percentage of high school players that get drafted by the NFL in a given year, who make rosters in that year.

LEARN HOW TO READ !

I have dinner with and play golf with a number of NFL Presidents.

Let me know if you’re willing to bet a “lifetime ban” on who I sat next to at dinner this past Tuesday.

 

[echowaker]

You’re too stupid to understand the numbers and the concept.

So let me give you an easy one to start with.

How many kids are playing High School Football ? 1,050,000 +

How many players are drafted by the NFL each year ? 259

How many of those 259 make an NFL roster ? 30 % ? 50 % ?

259 divided by 1,050,000 equals what ? .0002 ?
130 divided by 1,050,000 equals what ? .0001 ?

Even if I take 262,500 and divide it into 259 you get .000986666.

Now do you understand ?

What did you major in at Michigan State ?
Surely it couldn't have been math or reading comprehension !

You asked what percentage of drafted players make rosters. Read your original post again. That's all I was commenting on. I never responded to your assumptions regarding high school players. You suggested a much smaller percentage of drafted players making NFL rosters than what is actually the case. Perhaps when starting a new thread you should collect your thoughts and present them in a manner that actually makes sense. No harm in trying new things.

 

[Patrirish]

Hey, Echowaker, it shouldn’t take this long !

Do we have a bet ?

Or are you going to try to weasel out of it, big mouth ?

 

[echowaker]

The truth is that you dont want to risk losing a significant amount of money !.

”Posting privileges”. ABSOLUTELY

How about a lifetime ban ?
A “lifetime ban” under any and all names ?

Are you in big mouth ?

Yep

 

[echowaker]

Hey, Echowaker, it shouldn’t take this long !

Do we have a bet ?

Or are you going to try to weasel out of it, big mouth ?

Name calling, the weapon of choice of the uninformed. I'll be off the board for a while. Gotta make the Christmas eve wedding soup.

 

[Golson5]

You’re too stupid to understand the numbers and the concept.

So let me give you an easy one to start with.

How many kids are playing High School Football ? 1,050,000 +

How many players are drafted by the NFL each year ? 259

How many of those 259 make an NFL roster ? 30 % ? 50 % ?

259 divided by 1,050,000 equals what ? .0002 ?
130 divided by 1,050,000 equals what ? .0001 ?

Even if I take 262,500 and divide it into 259 you get .000986666.

Now do you understand ?

What did you major in at Michigan State ?
Surely it couldn't have been math or reading comprehension !

Using every HS kid in your example is moronic

 

[Patrirish]

You asked what percentage of drafted players make rosters. Read your original post again. That's all I was commenting on. I never responded to your assumptions regarding high school players. You suggested a much smaller percentage of drafted players making NFL rosters than what is actually the case. Perhaps when starting a new thread you should collect your thoughts and present them in a manner that actually makes sense. No harm in trying new things.

You’re a moron !

READ my opening post.

Then have someone with a brain explain it to you !

Do we have a bet on who I had dinner with this past Tuesday ?
I wanted to bet money, but you declined, offering instead, a posting ban, which I immediately accepted and indicated that it should be a “lifetime posting ban” !

So, do we have a bet on who I had dinner with this past Tuesday ?

The loser of the bet is banned from posting on any Notre Dame site, for “life”

So, do we have a bet big mouth ?

 

[Patrirish]

Using every HS kid in your example is moronic

It wasn’t every high school kid, it was every high school kid who played footbal. If you knew how to read and if you understood math you would have seen that I also narrowed it down to high school seniors.

 

[Golson5]

It wasn’t every high school kid, it was every high school kid who played footbal. If you knew how to read and if you understood math you would have seen that I also narrowed it down to high school seniors.

Yeah that is moronic. It's a stupid premise

 

[Patrirish]

Name calling, the weapon of choice of the uninformed. I'll be off the board for a while. Gotta make the Christmas eve wedding soup.

COWARD !

I knew that you would weasel out of the bet, even a bet where you set the stakes.

Let‘s not forget that it was YOU who called me a liar.

Is that your weapon of choice, calling people liars ….

And then when confronted with the possibility of being proven wrong and being held accountable for your slanderous accusation you slink away, just like the big mouthed coward that you are

When I challenged you on the veracity of my statement, like the coward you are you slink away under a weak excuse of making soup.
Hey, try the recipe for humiliation pie, it suits you better !

You’re a coward !

A coward hiding behind anonymity, who calls someone a liar and when challenged on your accusation you slink away like the coward that you are !

You should wear ”The scarlet letter “C” at all times, you coward !

 

[Patrirish]

Yeah that is moronic. It's a stupid premise

It’s a statistical fact, you’re just too stupid to understand it and it’s implications

 

[Golson5]

It’s a statistical fact, you’re just too stupid to understand it and it’s implications

I dont care that a 5' 8" 300 lb kid in North Dakota played HS football. Colleges don't recruit those kids.

If you aren't going to use cfb recruits your premise is ridiculous. There's a lot of kids in high school football that have no athletic ability.

What does that have to do with anything. It's pointless

 

[banmate6]

I've been immersed in the soccer World Cup. The real football. But am back to rooting for Notre Dame.

Never left. But I'll repeat my mantra that I've learned since Holtz left: ND remains at a serious disadvantage in recruiting stars in depth for football. More so now that ever with the de facto semipro restructuring of the sport.

Give it 2-3 years for the transfer, NIL, and academic accommodation at many schools to kick in. I still think ND can adapt and actually use this to become elite again. Have a progressive degree program, going a social good yes, pay the players with big alumni money; and offer business dev and investing advice, using the elite academics to effect.

I read some interesting posts on this site about all this. Gotta be honest: some of the alumni come off as hypocritical and uncreative when asserting they'd rather ND be mediocre than sell itself out. Really? You think ND didn't engage in some academic accommodation in th good old days? The clean up came at the end of the Holtz years.

I don't judge anybody here. Fine, I'm not an alumni. But I am a Catholic immigrant to the USA, for whom ND was an iconic Catholic identity in sports. I will always follow the team...but you can bet younger generations won't if the Fighting Irish don't merit this iconic name.

Like I keep saying, there can be accommodation, evolution, and elite performance...and yet maintain the high academic, social, and spiritual class Notre Dame has built, not least leveraging football across the decades.

Just me 2 cents as a long time subway far.

Lastly: I give Coach Freeman a solid B for his 1st year. But in the context of this discussion, man does he face serious headwinds of even faster college football change.

 

[Patrirish]

I dont care that a 5' 8" 300 lb kid in North Dakota played HS football. Colleges don't recruit those kids.

If you aren't going to use cfb recruits your premise is ridiculous. There's a lot of kids in high school football that have no athletic ability.

What does that have to do with anything. It's pointless

Yeah, they do when that kid runs a 9.8 100.

You keep proving that there’s no cure for stupidity !

There’s approximately 72,000 kids that play college football.
259 are drafted. That’s .003.

Are you starting to understand the odds and the reason that getting a good to great education are so important ?

Are you starting to see that the odds on playing for an NFL team are incredibly remote, that these high school players are being promised a dream that may never come true …… with the adverse consequence that they’ll be ill prepared for life after college because they overly focused on an illusory if not credibly illusion pursuit

I didn’t think so ! No surprise there !

As I stated, there is no cure for stupid and you prove it with every post you make !

 

[Patrirish]

I've been immersed in the soccer World Cup. The real football. But am back to rooting for Notre Dame.

Never left. But I'll repeat my mantra that I've learned since Holtz left: ND remains at a serious disadvantage in recruiting stars in depth for football. More so now that ever with the de facto semipro restructuring of the sport.

Give it 2-3 years for the transfer, NIL, and academic accommodation at many schools to kick in. I still think ND can adapt and actually use this to become elite again. Have a progressive degree program, going a social good yes, pay the players with big alumni money; and offer business dev and investing advice, using the elite academics to effect.

I read some interesting posts on this site about all this. Gotta be honest: some of the alumni come off as hypocritical and uncreative when asserting they'd rather ND be mediocre than sell itself out. Really? You think ND didn't engage in some academic accommodation in th good old days? The clean up came at the end of the Holtz years.

I don't judge anybody here. Fine, I'm not an alumni. But I am a Catholic immigrant to the USA, for whom ND was an iconic Catholic identity in sports. I will always follow the team...but you can bet younger generations won't if the Fighting Irish don't merit this iconic name.

Like I keep saying, there can be accommodation, evolution, and elite performance...and yet maintain the high academic, social, and spiritual class Notre Dame has built, not least leveraging football across the decades.

Just me 2 cents as a long time subway far.

Lastly: I give Coach Freeman a solid B for his 1st year. But in the context of this discussion, man does he face serious headwinds of even faster college football change.

I think that you’re well intended but in a bit of denial when it comes to the difficulty in balancing academic and athletic excellence.

You can’t lower your academic standards and still claim that you continue to maintain the highest academic standards, it’s beyond hypocritical, it’s dishonest.

Take two identical athletes, have one go to class and meet rigorous academic standards and then participate in football practice.

Have the other focus on football practice with very little time devoted to a rigorous academic agenda.

Which one do you think will develop into the more skilled football player ?

If Notre Dame maintains their high academic standards and remains competitive in college football but never wins another National Championship, is Notre Dame less of an academic institution ?

Or has Notre Dame fulfilled its institutional obligation to provide its students with an education of the highest quality, including its student-Athletes ?

 

[Golson5]

Yeah, they do when that kid runs a 9.8 100.

You keep proving that there’s no cure for stupidity !

There’s approximately 72,000 kids that play college football.
259 are drafted. That’s .003.

Are you starting to understand the odds and the reason that getting a good to great education are so important ?

Are you starting to see that the odds on playing for an NFL team are incredibly remote, that these high school players are being promised a dream that may never come true …… with the adverse consequence that they’ll be ill prepared for life after college because they overly focused on an illusory if not credibly illusion pursuit

I didn’t think so ! No surprise there !

As I stated, there is no cure for stupid and you prove it with every post you make !

Stupidity right here

 

[Patrirish]

Stupidity right here

Have someone with a brain explain it to you.

Because you can’t cure stupid it’s going to be a part of you for the rest of your life.

 

[Golson5]

Have someone with a brain explain it to you.

Because you can’t cure stupid it’s going to be a part of you for the rest of your life.

Pure stupidity

 

[Patrirish]

Pure stupidity

Yes, you are !

 

[banmate6]

I think that you’re well intended but in a bit of denial when it comes to the difficulty in balancing academic and athletic excellence.

You can’t lower your academic standards and still claim that you continue to maintain the highest academic standards, it’s beyond hypocritical, it’s dishonest.

Take two identical athletes, have one go to class and meet rigorous academic standards and then participate in football practice.

Have the other focus on football practice with very little time devoted to a rigorous academic agenda.

Which one do you think will develop into the more skilled football player ?

If Notre Dame maintains their high academic standards and remains competitive in college football but never wins another National Championship, is Notre Dame less of an academic institution ?

Or has Notre Dame fulfilled its institutional obligation to provide its students with an education of the highest quality, including its student-Athletes ?

I've briefly played sports at the highest level (semipro had path to pro, although not sure I would have made it) and happened to eventually teach and tutor as a Professor's Assistant during my college years. Let me be blunt: most of the best athletes sacrificed time in academia for sports and were better than those that didn't. Especially the ones who dropped out and when pro, soccer in this case, but also applied generally to basketball players I knew.

This has been my experience in meeting athletes in a range of sports, emphasis again in international soccer. As the best forgo college for semipro and a run at a pro career. The point stands: the athletes focused on sports win over those who opt for an intense academic path. Main difference I see: a swagger and ruthlessness to beat out those who don't have this. Period.

As to the highest academic standards, as I've explained many times, ND can hypothetically offer an easier degree program for the challenged athletes. I have cousins who attended ND and graduated recently. Now working as IBankers. Do you think they would be impacted by a few football players having an easier, but progressively remedial, means to be educated while getting a useful degree? They still would take the tough degrees and courses, as would all the other students.

You seem to think the accommodations are mutually exclusive to being academically prestigious and having integrity. I don't. Which is why I was literal about ND surely having the creativity and means to achieve this with integrity and doing a social good as a Catholic institution. And as being a lead business school, which surely can make this a winning proposal for all concerned: academically, socially, spiritually, and intellectually.

Again, don't get me wrong. ND would be perfectly fine to not make accommodations and, as you said, never win another NC, but yet stay competitive. I just think the brand of old would die, appropriately so. Fading as folks like you and me pass, attracting the student body and alumni, good enough as well.

I just thing if the latter happens, something great will have been lost.

 

[NDinNJ]

The "think about the education" sales pitch fails miserably in comparison to someone just writing you a 7 figure check that will set you up for the rest of your life. This should just be intuitively obvious though.

LMAO!!! 7 figures doesn't set anyone up for life today. You are a complete tool. You know absolutely zero about finance.

 

[banmate6]

LMAO!!! 7 figures doesn't set anyone up for life today. You are a complete tool. You know absolutely zero about finance.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but $5,000,000 is a 7 figure number. Right?

Minimally I'd dollar cost average in an age appropriate mix of low cost cash, bond, and stock funds. Knowing the S&P500 produces 9%-10% CAGR over longer time horizons. Using rule of 72, that is doubling < every 8 years.

I sure think that would set me up something nice for life.



Funny. Based on my previous posts, this is an appropriate topic. Why can't ND teach, advise, and hone finance skills in a remedial degree program for great football athletes? Teach and put into practice positive cash flow, balance sheets, interest, amortization, and ROI...with, hint, hint, NIL money...cushioning the blow if somebody can't make the pros.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[banmate6]

Yes, you are !

I am a casual on this board. I don't take anything personally and am here mainly to socially and have fun around our Fighting Irish.

But even as a casual, I'm starting to remember your name...for sure fighting and insulting a lot.



Chill out a bit. Just saying. Apologies if I come off the wrong way. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

 

[Patrirish]

I've briefly played sports at the highest level and happened to teach and tutor as a Professor's Assistant during college. Let me be blunt: most of the best athletes sacrificed time in academia for sports and typically were better than those that didn't. Especially the ones who dropped out and when pro, soccer in this case...but also applied to basketball.

This has been my experience in meeting athletes in a range of sports, but, again, particularly in international soccer...as the best silly forgo college to basically become semipro and aim for pro. The point stands: the athletes focused on sports win over those who have an intense academic path...developing a swagger and ruthlessness beyond the part timers. Period.

As to the highest academic standards, as I've explained many times, ND can hypothetically offer an easy degree program. I have cousins who attended ND and graduated recently. Now working as IBankers. Do you think they would be impacted by a few football players having an easier, but progressively remedial, means to be educated while getting a useful degree?

You seem to think the accommodations are mutually exclusive to being academically prestigious and having integrity. I don't...which is why I was literal about ND surely having the creativity and means to achieve this.

Again, don't get me wrong. ND would be perfectly fine to not make accommodations and, as you said, never win another NC, but yet stay competitive. I just think the brand of old would die, appropriately so. Fading as folks like you and me pass, attracting the student body and alumni, good enough as well.

I do believe that the two are mutually exclusive to a good degree.

How do you lower your standards for a special class of students and then continue to maintain that you‘re an elite educational institution ?

You want Notre Dame to bifurcate its academic standards and then present the facade that they didn’t sell out in the interest of improving their football program

But, you can’t have it both ways.

Some might equate your proposal with Notre Dame selling its soul and abandoning its claim of being an elite academic institution.

I can’t speak for today’s environment and curriculum but when I attended ND there were no special or soft course for the scholarship athletes. They lived in the same dorms, ate in the same dinning hall and attended the same classes. In my four years at ND I never met an inarticulate scholarship athlete.

An owner of an NFL team told me that they like players from ND because they bring an added level of intelligence with them.

”ND” should continue to stand for “No Dummies” !

 

[Patrirish]

I am a casual on this board. I don't take anything personally and am here mainly to socially and have fun around our Fighting Irish.

But even as a casual, I'm starting to remember your name...for sure fighting and insulting a lot.



Chill out a bit. Just saying. Apologies if I come off the wrong way. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

You’re not coming off the wrong way, you’re just expressing your opinion.

I didn’t initiate the fighting and insulting, I merely countered those that did, who tend to be repeat offenders.

I hope that you and your family have a Merry Christmas and the Happiest and HEALTHIEST New Year as well.

 

[NDinNJ]

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but $5,000,000 is a 7 figure number. Right?

Minimally I'd dollar cost average in an age appropriate mix of low cost cash, bond, and stock funds. Knowing the S&P500 produces 9%-10% CAGR over longer time horizons. Using rule of 72, that is doubling < every 8 years.

I sure think that would set me up something nice for life.



Funny. Based on my previous posts, this is an appropriate topic. Why can't ND teach, advise, and hone finance skills in a remedial degree program for great football athletes? Teach and put into practice positive cash flow, balance sheets, interest, amortization, and ROI...with, hint, hint, NIL money...cushioning the blow if somebody can't make the pros.

Just my 2 cents.

I get it, but you are assuming they invest that entire amount. These schools aren't dropping $5million on a kid. Add in the fact posters on this forum are claiming it's cash, hence non reportable to uncle sam. Yeah ok, good luck opening up an investment account or buying assets. The government will want to know where that money came from.
So let's just say a $2 million NIL deal. Realistically will have to report and get taxed on that which will leave $1.2 net. They'll probably buy a nice house, cash at 500-600k, they've got to have that 100k+ ride for themselves and their parents, that leaves a little 400k to work with if they invest it properly. Based on statistics of pro athletes blowing their fortunes, I highly doubt an 18!year old is going to have better success. That's the reality. some will, but most will blow it before they graduate.

 

[Golson5]

LMAO!!! 7 figures doesn't set anyone up for life today. You are a complete tool. You know absolutely zero about finance.

It certainly helps. And if you are smart with that money it certainly can

 

[NDinNJ]

It certainly helps. And if you are smart with that money it certainly can

The reality is Pro athletes aren't smart with their money. A significant percentage go broke and lose most of their earnings. You believe an 19 year old is going to do better? 😂

 

[Golson5]

The reality is Pro athletes aren't smart with their money. A significant percentage go broke and lose most of their earnings. You believe an 19 year old is going to do better? 😂

Lot of pro athletes are very smart with their money as well. Some are, some arent. Just like in real life.

 

[NDinNJ]

Lot of pro athletes are very smart with their money as well. Some are, some arent. Just like in real life.

Wrong. Do the research. "For many football stars, money goes just as quickly as it comes. According to Sports Illustrated, nearly 4 out of 5 former NFL players either go bankrupt or suffer sever financial distress."

4 out of 5 that's 80%

 

[Golson5]

Wrong. Do the research. "For many football stars, money goes just as quickly as it comes. According to Sports Illustrated, nearly 4 out of 5 former NFL players either go bankrupt or suffer sever financial distress."

4 out of 5 that's 80%

So what percent is bankrupt and what percent is severe financial distress and what determines severe financial distress?

Because in the real world probably 90 percent of people suffer from severe financial distress at some point in their lives

And many athletes do extremely well after they play. It's just like life

I know plenty of people who graduated college and couldn't get a job and suffer financial distress. They have to move back home

 

[NDinNJ]

So what percent is bankrupt and what percent is severe financial distress and what determines severe financial distress?

Because in the real world probably 90 percent of people suffer from severe financial distress at some point in their lives

And many athletes do extremely well after they play. It's just like life

I know plenty of people who graduated college and couldn't get a job and suffer financial distress. They have to move back home

Really, you are going to compare athletes making millions to the average Joe making less than a 6 figure income? 90% of people aren't making millions. Median income in the US is $54k/year. You can't compare that to someone making millions.
Your thought process is flawed, do better.

 

[Golson5]

Really, you are going to compare athletes making millions to the average Joe making less than a 6 figure income? 90% of people aren't making millions. Median income in the US is $54k/year. You can't compare that to someone making millions.
Your thought process is flawed, do better.

And the median income in football is 750k and the average career is less than 4 years. After taxes amd paying agents and financial advisors that number starts to dwindle. A lot of players try to support way too many people in their family and friends which leads to financial troubles. There are numerous reasons why.

But it's just like life, some will struggle and some will excel

 

[NDinNJ]

And the median income in football is 750k and the average career is less than 4 years. After taxes amd paying agents and financial advisors that number starts to dwindle. A lot of players try to support way too many people in their family and friends which leads to financial troubles. There are numerous reasons why.

But it's just like life, some will struggle and some will excel

Again the statistics are 80% struggle. It's not some struggle and some excel, MOST struggle.

 

[banmate6]

You’re not coming off the wrong way, you’re just expressing your opinion.

I didn’t initiate the fighting and insulting, I merely countered those that did, who tend to be repeat offenders.

I hope that you and your family have a Merry Christmas and the Happiest and HEALTHIEST New Year as well.

All good my man. We're passionate about the Irish. And some of us even didn't attend there.