The future of the program..BK

[88ND]

A serious question.

For the good of the program would you keep everything in place or do you cut ties and go in a different direction.

These types of games are hard to shake the reputation of pretender.

With everything still in place this game will have a lasting effect not good for the program IMO.

If you overhaul the staff you can at least find peace with going in a new direction. A new chapter. Old results are in the past. We're serious about winning a championship going forward.

If you stay status quo you keep the pretender shadow looming large.

I truly believe Mr. Swarbrick needs to make a change. 2012 reputation has hung on like a big cobweb. 2018 is a brand new cobweb adding to the one from 2012...still hanging on.

P.s.

30-3...Clemson could have made this 44-3 or 51-3 quite honestly. Dabo called the dogs off.

 

[HuddleBurger]

Does anybody really think ND is serious about winning a championship going forward?

 

[IrishInOntario]

Notre Dame isn't willing to do what it takes to win national titles anymore. Like Stanford, great coaching (both schools have that) can make it to the playoffs once every half decade, but they don't have the type of program that can win these games. The administration knows that, but the money machine keeps cashing, and that's the job of a university (business)... Nobody at ND cares enough to compromise their ethics, or lower their standards. Unless that decision is made, this is as close as ND will get, barring they stumble upon a Kyler Murray type of talent at QB.

 

[HarlemIrish]

What can MOST programs do? The system is set up where the team that is winning gets the top players. What can Notre dame do to not embarrass themselves on the field?

 

[GoldCountryND]

What can MOST programs do? The system is set up where the team that is winning gets the top players. What can Notre dame do to not embarrass themselves on the field?

Good point. How about we just don’t get embarrassed and make it a game. From Claypool dropping easy first down pass, to Dex fumbling, to Ian fumbling this team was an absolute mess from the get go!! No composure and they were not ready.

 

[VTND]

What can MOST programs do? The system is set up where the team that is winning gets the top players. What can Notre dame do to not embarrass themselves on the field?

I think it comes down to coaching at this point.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Does anybody really think ND is serious about winning a championship going forward?

Nope, haven't been in a long time, it's why Holtz left.

 

[88ND]

Notre Dame isn't willing to do what it takes to win national titles anymore. Like Stanford, great coaching (both schools have that) can make it to the playoffs once every half decade, but they don't have the type of program that can win these games. The administration knows that, but the money machine keeps cashing, and that's the job of a university (business)... Nobody at ND cares enough to compromise their ethics, or lower their standards. Unless that decision is made, this is as close as ND will get, barring they stumble upon a Kyler Murray type of talent at QB.

Disagree with your first statement.

We DO NOT have great coaching.

Therein lies the problem.

If this game were 30-20...or even a 42-28 game then you'd have that argument.

The problem is the last three big bowl games...12, 15, 18 have been embarrassing due to very SUSPECT coaching.

The big game and BK...he just becomes frozen pizza.

 

[Ara64]

You are right IIO but I don't see ND changing it's approach toward the football program. Yes they will put money into the facilities but it stops there. Why would the top players come here when they can go elsewhere and have an easier path through school? You really have to want it badly to come here. It's why so many elite coaches want nothing to do with ND. I just don't see it changing anytime in the future.

 

[88ND]

Good point. How about we just don’t get embarrassed and make it a game. From Claypool dropping easy first down pass, to Dex fumbling, to Ian fumbling this team was an absolute mess from the get go!! No composure and they were not ready.

Players are extension of coach.

 

[notredamerises23]

Disagree with your first statement.

We DO NOT have great coaching.

Therein lies the problem.

If this game were 30-20...or even a 42-28 game then you'd have that argument.

The problem is the last three big bowl games...12, 15, 18 have been embarrassing due to very SUSPECT coaching.

The big game and BK...he just becomes frozen pizza.

Didn’t you predict an ND win? Wasn’t Kelly the coach when you thought ND would win? So why surprised now?

ND was between a 12 and 14 point favorite. NO team EVER gets 14 points becuse it’s coached better. There was a massive talent differential in this game. Yeah, maybe in hindsight better calls could have been made, but Vegas expected us to lose 8 times out of 10.

 

[d1042]

ND will be 11-1 or 10-2 in 2019. If 11-1 it will be interesting to see how the Committee reacts to ND’s playoff contention.

 

[dagimpper1]

ND admin will not change until a decline in revenue. I've been doing my part since 07. No games no gear no souvenirs. Only my B&G Illustrated mag. Until ND wins a natty. But, I imagine I've seen my last in 88. They have saquadered the greatest brand in sports. Does a Duke degree mean less because they've lowered there standards in bball. I think not.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Laughable to think this administration is serious about winning a national championship. Not coming at you OP but that’s just how I feel. They do not care about that, but hey... hear hear for ole Notre Dame am I right? Win one for the gipper but don’t win in the modern era!

 

[NDIRISH53]

Notre Dame isn't willing to do what it takes to win national titles anymore. Like Stanford, great coaching (both schools have that) can make it to the playoffs once every half decade, but they don't have the type of program that can win these games. The administration knows that, but the money machine keeps cashing, and that's the job of a university (business)... Nobody at ND cares enough to compromise their ethics, or lower their standards. Unless that decision is made, this is as close as ND will get, barring they stumble upon a Kyler Murray type of talent at QB.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[NDIRISH53]

ND admin will not change until a decline in revenue. I've been doing my part since 07. No games no gear no souvenirs. Only my B&G Illustrated mag. Until ND wins a natty. But, I imagine I've seen my last in 88. They have saquadered the greatest brand in sports. Does a Duke degree mean less because they've lowered there standards in bball. I think not.

But but but duke doesn’t graduate their players!

 

[VTND]

A serious question.

For the good of the program would you keep everything in place or do you cut ties and go in a different direction.

These types of games are hard to shake the reputation of pretender.

With everything still in place this game will have a lasting effect not good for the program IMO.

If you overhaul the staff you can at least find peace with going in a new direction. A new chapter. Old results are in the past. We're serious about winning a championship going forward.

If you stay status quo you keep the pretender shadow looming large.

I truly believe Mr. Swarbrick needs to make a change. 2012 reputation has hung on like a big cobweb. 2018 is a brand new cobweb adding to the one from 2012...still hanging on.

P.s.

30-3...Clemson could have made this 44-3 or 51-3 quite honestly. Dabo called the dogs off.

Notre Dame needs to cut ties with Kelly but we know it will not happen. At the very least Polian and Long need to go. Neither has proven to be a good hire.

the 2019 schedule is brutal but the game @Georgia is a must win game in my opinion. Going down their and getting stomp should officially put Notre Dame in the UCF argument for the foreseeable future. It will be hard for us to be taken seriously by anyone. This should also be the game that seals Kelly's fate. He has had numerous chances to shine on the big stage and instead of showing up he gets out coached every. Single. Time.

 

[Ara64]

I notice that the crowds at the old stadium is still full on Saturday's and the ratings are very strong. Next fan in! GO IRISH!!!

 

[Ara64]

Like Uncle Jack said at the end of 2016...Who out there is better than Brian Kelly that wants the job? Fair weather fans, and we mock other school's fan bases when they have meltdowns after a disappointing lose. I guess we're no different after all. Next coach in even if he sends us back into the toilet days. NO THANK YOU. Come on Coach and get it right next year.

 

[chaseball]

Any other major blue blood in NDs tier (wealth/prestige wise) would have made a change at HC and even AD by now. But ND continues to stay the course and make excuses instead.

When ND stays the course it communicates that these results are acceptable, and being a 2nd rate football program is something they are ok with. Sold out stadiums every week, and being among the top 5 in revenue generated, while being one of the biggest has-beens in sports is something ND is fine with.

Also, Clemson does have more talent than ND, but even Clemson is a tier away from Georgia/OSU/Alabama in terms of raw talent. It just highlights how far away ND is from being anywhere near the very top of college football again and ND administrators arent doing a damn thing about it other then staying the course and fighting the public perception with excuses/spin/PR.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Like Uncle Jack said at the end of 2016...Who out there is better than Brian Kelly that wants the job? Fair weather fans, and we mock other school's fan bases when they have meltdowns after a disappointing lose. I guess we're no different after all. Next coach in even if he sends us back into the toilet days. NO THANK YOU. Come on Coach and get it right next year.

Notre Dame is not even close to where they once were and should be as a program. 0-6 in major bowl games the last 20 years, with all of them being blowouts.

Nothing to look forward to outside of beating some middling teams in October-November then getting blasted in the games that actually mean something if we're lucky enough to get there. A once proud program is now the laughingstock of college football. Maybe next year though. I still won't miss a game and will just keep hoping for something better as I've done for as long as I can remember. It's amazing how the expectations have gone down for most of the fanbase though, sad really.

 

[Get Nasty]

Notre Dame needs to cut ties with Kelly but we know it will not happen. At the very least Polian and Long need to go. Neither has proven to be a good hire.

the 2019 schedule is brutal but the game @Georgia is a must win game in my opinion. Going down their and getting stomp should officially put Notre Dame in the UCF argument for the foreseeable future. It will be hard for us to be taken seriously by anyone. This should also be the game that seals Kelly's fate. He has had numerous chances to shine on the big stage and instead of showing up he gets out coached every. Single. Time.

This... Nd has a chance to get back on track early next gear at Georgia... I won’t forgive or trust kelly book and long unless they beat Georgia and or win a championship. I think kelly and staff made a huge mistake putting all their eggs in on book. The talent gap between book and the other three playoff QBs was the biggest gap at any poistion. Wimbush in packages could help shrink that gap. Awful preparation given 5 weeks, just awful.

 

[d1042]

Look! this year was a huge success. This staff is the best staff since Ara/Lou era. And the DC / S&C coaching is outstranding. Kelly is not not micro managing and doing the things he does best.
Given the known constraints ND cannot do better for a staff.

 

[Ara64]

I suppose most fanbases would laugh at a 12-1 season? 22-4 isn't bad over the past two seasons. It's a lot better than 13-12 like 12 years ago? My expectations haven't changed but I'm not going spastic after a disappointing lose. I've matured a lot since 1972 when I screamed for Ara Parseghian's job after the USC collapse and Nebraska lose. My brother called me stupid then and he was right. We haven't had an outstanding coach since Lou and that's why we haven't won a title in 30 years. Kelly is a very good coach along the lines of Terry Brennan. He is the poster boy of why elite coaches stay far away from ND today. Like I said before; I don't see those challenges changing at ND anytime soon. I expect they will get stricter after Father Jenkins retires someday. ND wants to win without sacrificing its academic reputation and high standards. You either accept it as a fan or the doors that way. ND football is no longer the face of the university. I think it's time the university come clean and join the ACC. I think a snowball has a better chance of surviving the fires of Hell than ND winning another National Championship under the present climate. You need an elite coach to win championships and those days are gone with the wind unless things change drastically.

 

[Get Nasty]

I suppose most fanbases would laugh at a 12-1 season? 22-4 isn't bad over the past two seasons. It's a lot better than 13-12 like 12 years ago? My expectations haven't changed but I'm not going spastic after a disappointing lose. I've matured a lot since 1972 when I screamed for Ara Parseghian's job after the USC collapse and Nebraska lose. My brother called me stupid then and he was right. We haven't had an outstanding coach since Lou and that's why we haven't won a title in 30 years. Kelly is a very good coach along the lines of Terry Brennan. He is the poster boy of why elite coaches stay far away from ND today. Like I said before; I don't see those challenges changing at ND anytime soon. I expect they will get stricter after Father Jenkins retires someday. ND wants to win without sacrificing its academic reputation and high standards. You either accept it as a fan or the doors that way. ND football is no longer the face of the university. I think it's time the university come clean and join the ACC. I think a snowball has a better chance of surviving the fires of Hell than ND winning another National Championship under the present climate. You need an elite coach to win championships and those days are gone with the wind unless things change drastically.

I’m absolutely good with the record but the performance or lack there of vs Clemson was embarrassing, unnecessary, and a disgrace. No need to coach and play that bad with 5 weeks to prepare. They had nothing on offense, long and book were clueless. It’s one thing to lose, another to be embarrassed. Again, better preparation, focus, and coaching would have made that a game. No wimbush packages? The offense looked more vanilla than it had all season. Pathetic. Again, good with record, don’t expect championships, but also don’t expect to get embarrassed with that much time to prepare. That is why I’m done with kelly book and long until they prove me wrong against a top team. They have a chance at Georgia next year. UM is not a top team.

 

[d1042]

^ “That is why I’m done with kelly book and long until they prove me wrong against a top team.”

means?

 

[Get Nasty]

^ “That is why I’m done with kelly book and long until they prove me wrong against a top team.”

means?

I do not trust or believe in them. Book has limitations and faults, they weren’t improved upon at all. The formula to beat him is simple if you have a solid D. I expected improvements in the pocket and downfield. There were none. I expected wrinkles on offense and packages for wimbush, our most talented offensive player, instead there were none. I believe in kelly and team with book to beat the teams we’re more talented than, but I have no trust in them to compete vs the top teams. They embarrassed themselves, the Nd university, and fans across the world for the third time on a big national stage in a bowl game. This was the worst because the team felt different. My trust has to be earned back again.

kelly lost my trust after keeping BVG and the 2016 crap show. He earned it back up until last night, he lost it again. It will take beating Georgia next year or winning a playoff game for him to get my trust back. Book and long are a big part of that as well. Obviously my trust has no influence, but as a fan, i would love to crush him in a press conference with actual real tough questions instead of the crap questions he gets to beat around.

 

[HarlemIrish]

ND admin will not change until a decline in revenue. I've been doing my part since 07. No games no gear no souvenirs. Only my B&G Illustrated mag. Until ND wins a natty. But, I imagine I've seen my last in 88. They have saquadered the greatest brand in sports. Does a Duke degree mean less because they've lowered there standards in bball. I think not.

I couldn't agree more. You watch that Clemson game and realize the Irish are signifcantly behind the big boys of CFB. I've given out to BK many a times but I honestly don't think he's the issue. I'm BK, I leave for the NFL. If your team doesn't win then you are rewarded with high draft picks. Theres a salary cap for all teams. If you know how to coach then eventually it will bear out.

 

[d1042]

Only 1 team Wins the NC out of 125. Expect to be disappointed it that is all that matters.

 

[Get Nasty]

Only 1 team Wins the NC out of 125. Expect to be disappointed it that is all that matters.

3 offensive points disappointed? No no no. Last night wasn’t disappointing, it was embarrassing, disgusting, pathetic, and a disgrace to Nd nation.

 

[hvillebill]

A serious question.

For the good of the program would you keep everything in place or do you cut ties and go in a different direction.

These types of games are hard to shake the reputation of pretender.

With everything still in place this game will have a lasting effect not good for the program IMO.

If you overhaul the staff you can at least find peace with going in a new direction. A new chapter. Old results are in the past. We're serious about winning a championship going forward.

If you stay status quo you keep the pretender shadow looming large.

I truly believe Mr. Swarbrick needs to make a change. 2012 reputation has hung on like a big cobweb. 2018 is a brand new cobweb adding to the one from 2012...still hanging on.

P.s.

30-3...Clemson could have made this 44-3 or 51-3 quite honestly. Dabo called the dogs off.

So, what do you say to the potential coaches that you're interviewing? 12-1 gets you fired?

Yes, it was a terrible performance, but that doesn't dismiss the other twelve games, many of which a lot of people thought ND would lose.

 

[chaseball]

So, what do you say to the potential coaches that you're interviewing? 12-1 gets you fired?

Yes, it was a terrible performance, but that doesn't dismiss the other twelve games, many of which a lot of people thought ND would lose.

12-1 doesn't mean that much when you luck into one of the easier schedules in college football and then get embarrassed when you actually play against a good opponent.

 

[hvillebill]

12-1 doesn't mean that much when you luck into one of the easier schedules in college football and then get embarrassed when you actually play against a good opponent.

One of the easiest in CF? Because you said so? Hardly.

Link: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other

 

[chaseball]

One of the easiest in CF? Because you said so? Hardly.

Link: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other

I meant among the tier of playoff teams/highly ranked teams/etc.

 

[Tru2Irish]

Nobody can sweep anything under the rug. ND ran into a brick wall. The only handful of plays were Dex's first run that almost cost ND Finke catch and Yoon.4 quarters and maybe 3-5 good plays. This team wasn't prepared well. When your sub corner comes in and totally flops,it shows the poor prep.That being said,this team had a very good run being 12-0. They never gave up. This time they could not overcome the talent difference.Also, ND will not waver academics for top talent that doesn't care about the classroom. Do any of you want kids that could play but ND would care less about them getting degrees if they don't make NFL? I don't. I want successful young men with a career degree to guide them.I am not a Chip Long fan. Vanilla coach at the least. Polian[while a great recruiter] puts little into his special teams. There are changes that need addressed. Will it happen? I can't say but I know I will follow ND thick or thin because to me loyalty means something.I root for each of the 85 players on roster [walk-ons also]to succeed in life. Long live the Irish!

 

[Zeester]

Any other major blue blood in NDs tier (wealth/prestige wise) would have made a change at HC and even AD by now. But ND continues to stay the course and make excuses instead.

When ND stays the course it communicates that these results are acceptable, and being a 2nd rate football program is something they are ok with. Sold out stadiums every week, and being among the top 5 in revenue generated, while being one of the biggest has-beens in sports is something ND is fine with.

Also, Clemson does have more talent than ND, but even Clemson is a tier away from Georgia/OSU/Alabama in terms of raw talent. It just highlights how far away ND is from being anywhere near the very top of college football again and ND administrators arent doing a damn thing about it other then staying the course and fighting the public perception with excuses/spin/PR.

2nd rate, really? Maybe they lost but they still made the playoffs. Clemson a tier away in talent? Wow, you are really right there in knowledge.

 

[88ND]

So, what do you say to the potential coaches that you're interviewing? 12-1 gets you fired?

Yes, it was a terrible performance, but that doesn't dismiss the other twelve games, many of which a lot of people thought ND would lose.

Thwt we're serious about competing at the highest levels. It's that simple.

Do you remember the Golden State Warriors made the playoffs after many years of being the doormat. Matter of fact they made it twice. Yet they fired Mark Jackson who took them from really bad to 2nd in the pacific with a first-round win. The next year he made the playoffs again but lost in round 1.

The owners fired him as they felt and wanted the team to do better.

We know the rest is history.

Even to the point of Durant taking less money to have success.

Kids, players, men, (RECRUITS) are still a sucker for success.

You have to try.

 

[hvillebill]

Thwt we're serious about competing at the highest levels. It's that simple.

Do you remember the Golden State Warriors made the playoffs after many years of being the doormat. Matter of fact they made it twice. Yet they fired Mark Jackson who took them from really bad to 2nd in the pacific with a first-round win. The next year he made the playoffs again but lost in round 1.

The owners fired him as they felt and wanted the team to do better.

We know the rest is history.

Even to the point of Durant taking less money to have success.

Kids, players, men, (RECRUITS) are still a sucker for success.

You have to try.

So, whom do you suggest?

 

[88ND]

Any other major blue blood in NDs tier (wealth/prestige wise) would have made a change at HC and even AD by now. But ND continues to stay the course and make excuses instead.

When ND stays the course it communicates that these results are acceptable, and being a 2nd rate football program is something they are ok with. Sold out stadiums every week, and being among the top 5 in revenue generated, while being one of the biggest has-beens in sports is something ND is fine with.

Also, Clemson does have more talent than ND, but even Clemson is a tier away from Georgia/OSU/Alabama in terms of raw talent. It just highlights how far away ND is from being anywhere near the very top of college football again and ND administrators arent doing a damn thing about it other then staying the course and fighting the public perception with excuses/spin/PR.

Stop with the recruiting teir nonsense for a minute. Seriously you live and die by those god damn star rankings.

What you say above might be true....but we could have have had a bunch of four and five stars last night and the results aren't much different.

That game was embarrassing. The coaching was nonexistent. The game plan was shit. The emotion was shit.

You know what the coaching was...

Juvenile.

A
G
A
I
N

 

[88ND]

So, whom do you suggest?

Don't you think at this point it's less about the who and more about being proactive?

What did people say after TW and CW. Who wants to come here. Can't compete. Our standards are too high, blah blah blah...same god damn thing.

Along comes BK. A new hope...right? To a certain extent he got the program more modernized than the two prior. *Although, BK in a big bowl game has similar results as CW....

It's pretty safe to say that we know what we have with BK. Good regular seasons from time to time and totally out coached in the biggest of moments.

Do you want to compete in those moments? It won't happen with BK. That's been solidified.

Change is scary but once you've resigned yourself to the above facts...change becomes necessary....if in fact you are serious about winning.

If you only want to sell the world excuses of hallmark stories...our staff is perfect.