Tell me it isn’t so HH?

[savvyandsassier]

Harry Heistand has or had been active for like, over thirty years, in his career as a competent journeyman OL coach, coaching at many different stops. He is not some special son of ND, and there is no special connection there, nor did ND achieve any particular success while he was ND's OL coach. That only exists in the perverse imaginations and troubled souls of BK-hating ND fans, who have predictably and unduly lionized HH for their own thoroughly morbid reasons.

I do figure this means Ludwig is going to get the job. And maybe that's why HH either waited to announce, or indeed decided to retire, on account of our new OC preferring to bring in his own OL coach. Let's hope so anyway....

EDIT to add we did reach the 2012 title game. Our offense was hardly a steamrolling juggernaut that season, but he does have that feather in his cap.

 

[ohio1980]

Harry Heistand has or had been active for like, over thirty years, in his career as a competent journeyman OL coach, coaching at many different stops. He is not some special son of ND, and there is no special connection there, nor did ND achieve any particular success while he was ND's OL coach. That only exists in the perverse imaginations and troubled souls of BK-hating ND fans, who have predictably and unduly lionized HH for their own thoroughly morbid reasons.

I do figure this means Ludwig is going to get the job. And maybe that's why HH either waited to announce, or indeed decided to retire, on account of our new OC preferring to bring in his own OL coach. Let's hope so anyway....

EDIT to add we did reach the 2012 title game. Our offense was hardly a steamrolling juggernaut that season, but he does have that feather in his cap.

During his time in South Bend, Hiestand was responsible for developing numerous eventual NFL standouts, including Zack Martin (picked No. 16 overall by the Dallas Cowboys in 2014), Chris Watt (No. 89 overall by the San Diego Chargers in 2014), Ronnie Stanley (No. 6 overall by the Baltimore Ravens in 2016), Nick Martin (No. 50 overall by the Houston Texans in 2016), Quenton Nelson (No. 6 overall by the Indianapolis Colts in 2018) and Mike McGlinchey (No. 9 overall by the San Francisco 49ers in 2018).

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

But you didn't like Rees so what's the problem

Weren't turned down by Klein, was never formally offered.

Wouldn't you say Ludwig is an upgrade?

Ludwig? It’s Monday and we’ve heard nothing.

 

[Golson5]

Harry Heistand has or had been active for like, over thirty years, in his career as a competent journeyman OL coach, coaching at many different stops. He is not some special son of ND, and there is no special connection there, nor did ND achieve any particular success while he was ND's OL coach. That only exists in the perverse imaginations and troubled souls of BK-hating ND fans, who have predictably and unduly lionized HH for their own thoroughly morbid reasons.

I do figure this means Ludwig is going to get the job. And maybe that's why HH either waited to announce, or indeed decided to retire, on account of our new OC preferring to bring in his own OL coach. Let's hope so anyway....

EDIT to add we did reach the 2012 title game. Our offense was hardly a steamrolling juggernaut that season, but he does have that feather in his cap.

You're a moron

 

[Golson5]

Ludwig? It’s Monday and we’ve heard nothing.

So.... you didn't respond to the first 2 I see

 

[Get Nasty]

I wasn't a rees fan but i do feel like he showed potential to be very good, he just flat out wasn't at ND. With that said, it's all on the hire for his replacement if this is good or not. Ludwig would be an upgrade and then we'll see on our Oline hire.

ND should have been prepared for both Rees and HH's departure.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Harry Heistand has or had been active for like, over thirty years, in his career as a competent journeyman OL coach, coaching at many different stops. He is not some special son of ND, and there is no special connection there, nor did ND achieve any particular success while he was ND's OL coach. That only exists in the perverse imaginations and troubled souls of BK-hating ND fans, who have predictably and unduly lionized HH for their own thoroughly morbid reasons.

This is a terrible take. Harry Hiestand put Zack Martin, Chris Watt, Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson and Mike McGlinchey--a who's who of great or very good offensive linemen--into the NFL. Name another CFB OL coach who has a record even close to HH's. Martin, Stanley and Q are pretty widely considered by the NFL pundits to be 3 of the best offensive linemen in the entire NFL. If ND wasn't successful, it wasn't because of HH. Your worship of BK has left you with a huge blind spot there.

 

[Kelso86]

I wasn't a rees fan but i do feel like he showed potential to be very good, he just flat out wasn't at ND. With that said, it's all on the hire for his replacement if this is good or not. Ludwig would be an upgrade and then we'll see on our Oline hire.

ND should have been prepared for both Rees and HH's departure.

"ND should have been prepared for both Rees and HH's departure"

And, how do you "prepare"?

Yes, you know, as a coach, at some point there is a possibility one, or both could/will leave (as with any assistant) -- but WHEN that will happen is anyone's guess --

 

[savvyandsassier]

This is a terrible take. Harry Hiestand put Zack Martin, Chris Watt, Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson and Mike McGlinchey--a who's who of great or very good offensive linemen--into the NFL. Name another CFB OL coach who has a record even close to HH's. Martin, Stanley and Q are pretty widely considered by the NFL pundits to be 3 of the best offensive linemen in the entire NFL. If ND wasn't successful, it wasn't because of HH. Your worship of BK has left you with a huge blind spot there.

It's a totally accurate take. And your word is complete shit at this point. Literally every mult-year starter that Jeff Quinn coached is now in the NFL, not including Jarrett Patterson who presumably will also be on an NFL roster. Yet the lunatic ND fanbase castigates Quinn not only as an awful OL coach, but almost like a bad human being, a cancer on a coaching staff, a program-ruiner, something like that. That kind of wild, almost head-scratchingly baseless character assassination, denigration and personal hostility.

Because you guys are sick in the head. And the truth is Quinn was a perfectly good OL coach at the least, bordering on inarguably more successful and ultimately a better OL coach than HH, even in the abstract. Bottom line is the apotheosizing of HH is inextricably bound up in the ND's fanbase deep-seated reactionary demonizing of BK, and there's no basis for such HH adulation strictly on the merits. ND has been producing NFL OL for many years, and recruiting top OL prospects at a high clip and on an annual basis for a long time, and continued to do so without missing a beat after HH left....

 

[Get Nasty]

"ND should have been prepared for both Rees and HH's departure"

And, how do you "prepare"?

Yes, you know, as a coach, at some point there is a possibility one, or both could/will leave (as with any assistant) -- but WHEN that will happen is anyone's guess --

You prepare by being a little bit closer on their potential replacement if and when they were to depart. You don't find yourself in a position like Jack was in when Kelly left.

You have more conversations with the individual to understand what's going on and what they are looking for. If you want them to stay you work on ways to improve their situation at ND. ND seemed to know rees was a flight risk and they determined they would match top $$$ for him but he still left. HH should have been known and i believe he clearly was as someone close to retirement and a bridge gap.

Just like Freeman talks about always looking to enhance and improve the team through additional players he should be doing the same with coaches. Rees, Golden, Washington did not have good years and Freeman should already be understanding if he can upgrade them.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

It's a totally accurate take. And your word is complete shit at this point. Literally every mult-year starter that Jeff Quinn coached is now in the NFL, not including Jarrett Patterson who presumably will also be on an NFL roster. Yet the lunatic ND fanbase castigates Quinn not only as an awful OL coach, but almost like a bad human being, a cancer on a coaching staff, a program-ruiner, something like that. That kind of wild, almost head-scratchingly baseless character assassination, denigration and personal hostility.

Because you guys are sick in the head. And the truth is Quinn was a perfectly good OL coach at the least, bordering on inarguably more successful and ultimately a better OL coach than HH, even in the abstract. Bottom line is the apotheosizing of HH is inextricably bound up in the ND's fanbase deep-seated reactionary demonizing of BK, and there's no basis for such HH adulation strictly on the merits. ND has been producing NFL OL for many years, and recruiting top OL prospects at a high clip and on an annual basis for a long time, and continued to do so without missing a beat after HH left....

Another READY, FIRE, AIM post from you. Why am I not surprised? Show me a single post where I ever had something bad to say about Jeff Quinn. I will make it easy for you. There aren't any. I never played offensive line, nor was I ever coached by HH or JQ. But when I read player interviews about both, HH is spoken about in glowing terms. Go watch the interview of Aaron Taylor a few weeks ago on the Goolsby podcast. You think Aaron Taylor might know a thing or two about playing OL? I haven't seen the same kind of player respect for Jeff Quinn's coaching abilities. Might that tell you something?

If it weren't for straw men, you wouldn't be able to make an argument.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Another READY, FIRE, AIM post from you. Why am I not surprised? Show me a single post where I ever had something bad to say about Jeff Quinn. I will make it easy for you. There aren't any. I never played offensive line, nor was I ever coached by HH or JQ. But when I read player interviews about both, HH is spoken about in glowing terms. Go watch the interview of Aaron Taylor a few weeks ago on the Goolsby podcast. You think Aaron Taylor might know a thing or two about playing OL? I haven't seen the same kind of player respect for Jeff Quinn's coaching abilities. Might that tell you something?

If it weren't for straw men, you wouldn't be able to make an argument.

Do you honestly think I take you seriously as an interlocutor? Or like, I'm concerned with meeting with your approval? I've never seen such laughable intellectual dishonesty and supremely biased to the point of absurdity takes and arguments and opinions as the ND online fanbase pumps out on a daily basis. I don't give a shit how you personally handled your business with respect to all the various aspects and angles of this fanbase's relentless assault on anything tangentially connected to BK, the truth is HH is a good OL coach, nothing more, and yet is also very arguably a lesser coach than JQ, at least based solely on their time and results at ND.

And if you're talking up or tearing up over HH like he's St. Harry or some shit like that, and we'll never see his like again, then you're part of that mob.....

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Do you honestly think I take you seriously as an interlocutor? Or like, I'm concerned with meeting with your approval? I've never seen such laughable intellectual dishonesty and supremely biased to the point of absurdity takes and arguments and opinions as the ND online fanbase pumps out on a daily basis. I don't give a shit how you personally handled your business with respect to all the various aspects and angles of this fanbase's relentless assault on anything tangentially connected to BK, the truth is HH is a good OL coach, nothing more, and yet is also very arguably a lesser coach than JQ, at least based solely on their time and results at ND.

And if you're talking up or tearing up over HH like he's St. Harry or some shit like that, and we'll never see his like again, then you're part of that mob.....

Another bloviating post from you. Is English your second language? I am not certain of the point you are trying to make, but then again, I don't care. Have a nice day.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Another bloviating post from you. Is English your second language? I am not certain of the point you are trying to make, but then again, I don't care. Have a nice day.

That's what I mean, you know exactly wtf I'm talking about. You know exactly what I'm accusing you and your ilk of. And so you play the fool yet again, and stalk off with the usual haughty contempt.

This is ND football nation, these are your people. This is who you guys are.....

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

That's what I mean, you know exactly wtf I'm talking about. You know exactly what I'm accusing you and your ilk of. And so you play the fool yet again, and stalk off with the usual haughty contempt.

This is ND football nation, these are your people. This is who you guys are.....

I am happy to engage with posters who can make logical and intelligent arguments. You are capable of neither. All you are able to do is call people names. Insults are the last refuge of those who have nothing intelligent to say.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I am happy to engage with posters who can make logical and intelligent arguments. You are capable of neither. All you are able to do is call people names. Insults are the last refuge of those who have nothing intelligent to say.

Okay, thank you for yet another half-paralyzed, robotically disdainful retort.

And everything I said is true....

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Okay, thank you for yet another half-paralyzed, robotically disdainful retort.

And everything I said is true....

QED

 

[savvyandsassier]

QED

What? You mean, QED, that little Latin phrase that many ND fans like to pompously flaunt when they're stuck in some losing argument, and really don't have anything better to say? That QED? You guys probably have to take Latin, and it's required, and nobody else has to learn that shit anymore even though I think it's like a math expression?

Okay I just it looked it up. So you denounced me as a name-caller, and in reply I sort of called you another name, and in so doing demonstrated the validity of your accusation, and thus QED. Just like a math professor would! God damn, only ND alums would resort to such corny-ass shit like that.

So no name calling, HH is nothing too special. And he's only venerated by ND fans for more or less seriously effed-up psychological reasons, as I already mentioned them. Because they're sort of stuck in this BK-hating death spiral, and for some reason, the mob decided that JQ was possibly even more odious than BK himself, on the basis of absolutely nothing of even the thinnest substance. Other than being BK's longtime right-hand man. And out of that seriously toxic brew HH was exalted up into the pantheon of great ND assistant coaches. And that's the tooth!

 

[Patrirish]

What? You mean, QED, that little Latin phrase that many ND fans like to pompously flaunt when they're stuck in some losing argument, and really don't have anything better to say? That QED? You guys probably have to take Latin, and it's required, and nobody else has to learn that shit anymore even though I think it's like a math expression?

Okay I just it looked it up. So you denounced me as a name-caller, and in reply I sort of called you another name, and in so doing demonstrated the validity of your accusation, and thus QED. Just like a math professor would! God damn, only ND alums would resort to such corny-ass shit like that.

So no name calling, HH is nothing too special. And he's only venerated by ND fans for more or less seriously effed-up psychological reasons, as I already mentioned them. Because they're sort of stuck in this BK-hating death spiral, and for some reason, the mob decided that JQ was possibly even more odious than BK himself, on the basis of absolutely nothing of even the thinnest substance. Other than being BK's longtime right-hand man. And out of that seriously toxic brew HH was exalted up into the pantheon of great ND assistant coaches. And that's the tooth!

I understand your strident defense of Brian Kelly, I really do.

But there is NO defense for the way and the timing of how Kelly left ND in the lurch,
it’s indefensible, especially after he announced a week earlier that he was staying at Notre Dame.

So you have to bifurcate the issues, separate them into their respective categories.

Some people can’t separate their visceral, their emotional views of Kelly from their assessment of his coaching abilities.

Your apparent dilemma is that you don’t seem to be able to identify and separate whether the underlying genesis of the discussion is from the other party’s visceral or intellectual perspective. It’s very difficult to have an intellectual discussion with an individual when the foundation of their perspective is mostly visceral

In your defense, a lot of Kelly’s detractors don’t understand where they’re impetus is coming from.

Ergo, I think you have to try to distinguish the visceral from the intellectual when engaging in discusdions and discourse with others.

it won’t be easy, but, Good luck