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Sad truth

And the point of not knowing if money was the determining factor in retaining Kelly only highlights the incredible mismanagement of the football program by the AD. Allowing money to decide the outcome and degrading of the single, most valuable, most recognizable icon of Notre Dame (even when money is plentiful to resolve) just underlines the gross mistake by Swarbrick.

I'm not sure how to read that. You acknowledge that we don't know if money has anything to do with the Kelly decision, then turn right around and assume that it does?

There's no doubt from all your posts that you think Swarbrick is Satan incarnate and is totally incompetent, blah blah blah, that's fine. But what you said makes no sense.
 
I'm not sure how to read that. You acknowledge that we don't know if money has anything to do with the Kelly decision, then turn right around and assume that it does?

There's no doubt from all your posts that you think Swarbrick is Satan incarnate and is totally incompetent, blah blah blah, that's fine. But what you said makes no sense.

It makes sense if you read it without a built in bias. My point is Swarbrick has made a terrible management decision in retaining Kelly. Period. If money has compounded it, as you believe, then it is the even more of an egregiously bad management decision. I don't hire lawyers to run companies, you hire managers. Result oriented people. Contrary to your remark, I have been very complementary of Swarbrick's decision to join the ACC, keep the football program's independence and the hockey team's as well, and as a result has positioned the sports programs to be involved in the best competitive arenas for them all. It's specifically the football personnel management and the degradation of the brand of the football program that is my bone of contention. His decisions have lead to that. In the private world, his actions are grounds for dismissal. FYI.
 
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Well, for you, look at the positive side -- at least you do not have to waste your Saturday's watching ND Football since, as you put it, the season is already over before it even has started. Now, you can get some overtime at the local Walmart to fill the void of ND football!

Grumpy even during the Holidays .... Awww .... sorry your feelings got hurt .... :(
 
TelX,

You are inspired by the fact that Kelly cleaned house? Who hired all of these incompetent coaches? Who stuck with them for far too long, when most of us common folk were screaming to fire Van Gorder, Luongo, etc prior to this year? Does he not take responsibility for that? And isn't this just Kelly's standard way of doing everything? Throw everyone under the bus and take zero responsibility. I started a thread at the end of the year to fire swarbrick. He has to be fired. For the extension and not truly cleaning house. Now what he has allowed gives Kelly more than just next year. It gives him, at the least, two more years. They will win 7 games next year and Bri-guy will explain that the kids need another year in the system.
 
But it's not like there isn't the necessary foundation in place to turn that around. In watching every ND game, as I know you do, it's obvious that if ND simply did some little things better, they'd put themselves in position to be a top 10 team, relevant in the national conversation.That obviously starts with coaching, which is something ND needs to do much better. BK is still BK and has his flaws, but we've already seen a team play for a championship at ND under BK, so at least we know that with the right mix of coaching and players, that's our ceiling. While I don't think the current roster is talented enough to play for a championship, I do think 2017 is going to see a positive upgrade in the coaching department, from Elko and Lea (if he does indeed come with Elko) on the defensive side of the ball, to special teams under Polian, to strength and conditioning, even if it's simply the product of excitement under a new staff. I also think ND is getting a net upgrade in the recruiting department as long as the last assistant they hire is a quality recruiter. Elko will be better than BVG because he's young and hungry and will put forth some effort. Polian is a bulldog in the recruiting department and he'll be an upgrade over Booker and should do a good job in California, Arizona and Texas. I think Lea will do a quality job up in the Northeast and he, Denson and Elston will make for a a nice duo up-and-down the coast.

Do I have any delusions of ND competing with Bama or Ohio State for a title any time soon? Not at all. But is the program in a desperate state outside of coming off an embarrassingly, miserable season? I don't think so.


The next time you are correct, will be the 1st time.
 
TelX,

You are inspired by the fact that Kelly cleaned house? Who hired all of these incompetent coaches? Who stuck with them for far too long, when most of us common folk were screaming to fire Van Gorder, Luongo, etc prior to this year? Does he not take responsibility for that? And isn't this just Kelly's standard way of doing everything? Throw everyone under the bus and take zero responsibility. I started a thread at the end of the year to fire swarbrick. He has to be fired. For the extension and not truly cleaning house. Now what he has allowed gives Kelly more than just next year. It gives him, at the least, two more years. They will win 7 games next year and Bri-guy will explain that the kids need another year in the system.
You apparently missed my posts calling for BVG to be fired after each season, and for Kelly to be held to account for the BVG hire and retention, each of which is inexcusable. Joined the chorus calling for both Kelly and Jack to be fired, etc... they weren't and so I choose to support the changes Kelly is making. Is there any question in your mind that Elko and Pulian are major upgrades to BVG and Booker? The likelihood for major improvement in our defense and special teams is very encouraging, and I choose to embrace these
 
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I'm not sure how to read that. You acknowledge that we don't know if money has anything to do with the Kelly decision, then turn right around and assume that it does?

There's no doubt from all your posts that you think Swarbrick is Satan incarnate and is totally incompetent, blah blah blah, that's fine. But what you said makes no sense.
Give him credit for being consistent and clueless.
 
Give him credit for being consistent and clueless.

And you, a simplistic dope. Have someone read the comment back to you, and very slowly, so you might understand. This weekend, as you genuflect at the alter of Coach 4 & 8 and delusionally dream of the greatness he will bring, know that most here see the vapid nature of all your comments. You can now get off your knees, Kelly zipped up his pants.
 
indeed a sad thread....

fan vs fan, ugliness, name calling.....split fan base.

And history tells us that it will only stop when winning reaches an acceptable level.....

and what is defined as "acceptable" is a measure of a program and its aspitations
 
indeed a sad thread....

fan vs fan, ugliness, name calling.....split fan base.

And history tells us that it will only stop when winning reaches an acceptable level.....

and what is defined as "acceptable" is a measure of a program and its aspitations

Oh please....
 
Java...glad to see your edit. Sometimes you press your case against Kelly so thoroughly, that it makes others wonder if you prefer to see him fail, etc... didn't think you were of that camp, and glad to see your clarification. Yes, that would be ten years to right the program, and hardly conceivable. What is conceivable, is Kelly delivering a ten win season and then moving on to a TV gig for a few years, getting his batteries recharged, then accepting a lucrative contract to coach at one of the downtrending traditional powers....someplace like Texas the past few years. My hope would be for ND to make a great hire to replace him, and one that follows the ten win season with several of his own. This would be the best case scenario, and more conceivable than Kelly righting the program using this criteria.
Telx... great post. At this point I think your scenario is our best option. That said my optimism for the future of ND football is still bleak as I don't see the current Administration make real changes to help make it easier for Kelly or the future coach. While I think Kelly has underachieved, I think the administration has put a cap on the success of ND football making it impossible to truly excel.
 
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Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. ND is now in a tier lower than is required to be a contender for national contention. All the sunshine pumping nor depth chart lists by IIO will alter that reality.
Compare ND with UM and tOSU. These are teams that ND used to compete with for recruits.
Other teams have jumped ND in national competitive relevance.
Recruits are clearly ahead of the curve compared to the remaining sunshine pumpers.
For proper perspective, all one needs to do is pay attention and be objective.
Nothing ND 'powers that be' has done has sent the message to recruits that ND wants to be a serious legit contender for national football honors. If ND does not care, why should the recruits?
 
And you, a simplistic dope. Have someone read the comment back to you, and very slowly, so you might understand. This weekend, as you genuflect at the alter of Coach 4 & 8 and delusionally dream of the greatness he will bring, know that most here see the vapid nature of all your comments. You can now get off your knees, Kelly zipped up his pants.
I am excited for Temple. You are a grumpy old man.
You wouldn't know if the ball was stuffed or pumped.
 
This is the sad truth.

I'm very soured on Notre Dame right now and I know I'm not alone.
Every time I try to be optimistic and find a silver lining it's just become impossible to get beyond the elephant in the room..one Brian Kelly.

Notre Dame talks the talk but the decision makers are NOT keeping up their end of the bargain. The talk is purely hollow.

As fans we do our part and support the team regardless. We don't expect titles every year even in the good old days but in the least we expect our team we support to try as hard and give their best effort. We're to support our best and this is to be a two way street...no?
This last season was very bothersome to me. If Brian Kelly is doing his best then sadly his best is not good enough.

The powers that be we expect to be making their very best decisions.

This last season Notre Dame football the product was a complete embarrassment.

These were things that had NOTHING to do with speed, strength, athleticism etc.

Brian Kelly was never a good fundamental guy offense or defense but his product on display this year was the worst fundamentally I've ever seen Notre Dame.

Tackling, special teams, confusion, down and distance fiasco, the list is a mile long.

We don't have to win every game but the product on display doesn't have to be embarrassing.

This debacle is now on the administration and if they think Kelly will win eight games and look like a hero for doubling his wins...

Fans will walk. Write it down.

Kelly will either make the playoff or this will be his last. It has to be. It's that paramount and that short offal leash he should have.

Sucks for him because everyone will now second guess every single thing he does but he made this mess of a bed so we shall see.
They do the talk to talk.
Just not the walk to walk.
 
Telx... great post. At this point I think your scenario is our best option. That said my optimism for the future of ND football is still bleak as I don't see the current Administration make real changes to help make it easier for Kelly or the future coach. While I think Kelly has underachieved, I think the administration has put a cap on the success of ND football making it impossible to truly excel.
Java, I share this perspective, and feel this gets lost in our collective angst over some of Kelly's inexplicable decisions, along with our collective irritation with his arrogant me first personality. All of this takes place within the context of an Administration that loves to embrace the ND brand and the following and income it derives from same, but one that consciously and arrogantly fails to create an environment in which the coach and team can succeed at the level they are selling. The only way to hold the Administration to account for the deceit is to walk away, which I am not willing to do. Realistically, this is happening before their eyes by the younger generation who have no reason to have ever embraced the ND legacy, and absent a major change, the size of the ND subway alums and the income derived from the football program are both headed for a cliff as our generation passes. We are clearly headed towards becoming a regional brand, very sad.
 
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