Riley Out Rest of Spring
- Thread starter raulduke_007
- Start date
Good points. BK was an excellent HC, he just couldn't make the jump to being an elite HC. He restored a solid foundation to the football program after it wandered somewhat aimlessly during Davie-Willingham-Weis years, and for that we owe BK a debt of gratitude. But in the end with BK, he was all about what was good for him, and not necessarily what was good for the program and the players. MF is a polar opposite; he is all about doing what is right for the football program and the players. Whether he can coach them up is still an open question, but I love his enthusiasm and energy, his sincerity, and how he has gone about assembling a really solid coaching staff, and thus I remain very bullish on the direction of the program and MF's eventual ability to make the next step. Patience is difficult when you haven't won a NC since 1988, but I feel strongly that patience will be rewarded.
and every MAJOR bowl game as well. Not to mention that one game every year the team seemed to come out flat. Miami, Michigan, 50+ pass plays in a monsoon. He's a good coach, but he had his fair share of F'ups.
All true except BK is an above average coach, no where near excellent.
That is completely based on what they do or don’t inherit and how good the recruiting is, etc. Multifaceted. But after 4-5 years if nothing is improving they should be canned. Freeman is doing fine and I see a bit of progression. This could be his year. But if 8-4 with this roster you have to start questioning it. I think he’ll make a playoff.
Yeah, I agree. I think he’s basically proven that he’s a good coach but not really getting LSU over the hump yet tells us that we didn’t lose a world beater when he took off. He’s good, but he’s not a top-five coach in my opinion. Based on recruiting and being so young, if Freeman makes a playoff this year (even if LSU does as well), I would argue that we are in better hands now.
Minor correction: I'm pretty sure Kelly was flirting with Philadelphia before the national title game, although he didn't admit it until afterward.
The new guy has gone 8-4 & 9-3 in the regular season. He has gotten upset by 2 unranked teams at home, then flamed out at Louisville and at the worst Clemson team in the decade.
The happy talk about recruiting, is just that, happy talk about recruiting. If the talent can’t translate to better then winning 3 out of 4 games in the regular season.
Then the talented isn’t being coached or developed to its potential. How about retiring the BK whining. MF has been head coach 2 years and it’s time to develop some consistency.
The happy talk about recruiting, is just that, happy talk about recruiting. If the talent can’t translate to better then winning 3 out of 4 games in the regular season.
Then the talented isn’t being coached or developed to its potential. How about retiring the BK whining. MF has been head coach 2 years and it’s time to develop some consistency.
You complain about the "whining" over BK's record but you are throwing MF under the bus after two seasons? Really? Yes, the home losses to Marshall and Stanford shouldn't have happened, but BK's record at ND is replete with more than a few stinkers. Tulsa and Navy in 2010. The inexplicable loss to Northwestern in 2014 along with bad losses to USC and ASU. Losing to a really BAD Pitt team in 2013. That game was a stinkfest. During the 10-3 loss to NC State in 2016 having Kizer throw 26 times DURING A HURRICANE! The epic collapse against UM in 2011. The list is long and inglorious. Not to mention all the beatdowns in big games. Did BK have his moments? Yes. Did he restore some respectability to the program? Absolutely. But he had his flaws and the manner in which he departed left a bad taste in many mouths. While MF is a work in progress, I feel a lot more confident about where the program is headed than I did during the last few years of Kelly's regime. I have not anointed MF as the next Knute Rockne, but I am willing to see how it plays out. He has earned that right. You might consider doing the same.
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It’s impossible to ignore that BK took a program that had declined and resurrected it to the degree that BK went undefeated during the regular season in his third year.
And while I agree with you that MF should be given more time, DTGK is on target with his post.
I’m not alone in resenting the way BK left ND, but I’m not about to indulge in revisionist history and denigrate BK’s accomplishments at ND.
In the long run I believe that BK’s departure will have been in ND’s best interest.
MF is 19 and 7 in his first 2 years. BK was 16 and 10.
BK also had a 4 win season in year 7.
MF took over a robust program, BK took over a program in the dumps, ergo there is NO comparison in terms of what they inherited and what they had to deal with in their beginning years
Bk also took over a team robust in talent
And what they inherited was different thats part of the reason a 3 game difference.
Records arent the same. MF is ahead 3 games so far
Not even close
BK took over a teams with the following 3 year records
2009. 6-6
2008. 7-6
2007. 3-9
MF took over teams with the following 3 year records
2021. 1!-2
2020. 10-2
2019. 11-2
As the great American philosopher, Bill Parcells, stated, you are who your record says you are.
BK took over a team with three years of poor performance
MF took over a team with three years of exceptional performance
There is no comparison
The facts don’t fit your narrative !
Bk took over a team loaded with talent but needed to change the culture. He did that. It took him to year 3. No issue there.
But there's no doubt he took over a loaded roster. 16 and 10 with a loaded roster but in need of a culture change was a solid job.
I’ll respond to you, because that other clown is too emotional and full of female energy.
I’m not throwing Freeman under the bus, his record is what his record is. He took over a program that had won 44 out of its previous 50. He has gone 19-8 in his first 27 games. and it’s a step back record wise.
To say anything else would just be factually untrue. If the program has taken steps forward in other areas? Then it needs to manifest itself on the field, and with the W&L record. Or else what do those steps forward even mean?
The people that hate Kelly, and fan boy Freeman are so emotionally invested in these two guys. It reminds of Taylor Swifts little fan girls attacking the next dude who dumps her.
ND football was around long before Kelly & Freeman, and ND football will be around long after Kelly & Freeman are gone. I’m a ND fan, not someone who practices coach idolatry.
Alittle context is needed. Freeman played a lot tougher schedule his 1st 2 years. Freeman played 11 AP top 25 teams winning 7. Btw those 7 wins more than any other ND coach in history.
Yes they do. The ones with bad coaching and bad culture. BK took over a team with a lot of NFL players
Let me know if you of heard of any of these guys? Were they pretty good at football? Be honest and let me know
Zach Martin
Manti Teo
Harrison Smith
Michael Floyd
Kyle Rudolph
Tyler Eifert
Thats a big level of football player right there. And there was a lot of other NFL players on that roster. But damn that is an impressive top 6 guys. Whew
Who were the great QB’s BK inherited in 2010, 2011 and 2012 from 2009 ?
Tell us about the great defense that BK inherited in 2010, 2011 and 2012 from 2009 ?
Rudolf and Eifert played the same position
Smith played in 2010 and 2011
Rudolph only played in 2010
Michael Floyd played in 2010 and 2011
Evidently BK didn’t inherit the level of talent that you claimed.
Yes he did. Like I asked, and you didn't answer were those 6 players any good?
How were...
Zach Martin
Manti Teo
Kyle Rudolph
Tyler Eifert
Michael Floyd
Harrison Smith
I know a lot of coaches that would enjoy inheriting 2 NFL Hall of Famers
I didn't even mention NFL players like Theo Riddick, TJ Jones, Jonas Gray, Kap Lewis Moore, Darrin Walls and others who played in the NFL.
That's 11 NFL players he inherited and there is more than that from the 2010 and 2011 team.
16 and 10 with that talent..... not good enough.
Like I said, he inherited a whole lot of talent. Dont believe me, believe the NFL
Fair enough, but I don't think it is fair to judge MF after just two seasons. Record wise, MF's record has been a step down from BK's last 3 seasons. But I have watched ND football for nearly 7 decades and IMO, BK was not going to take the program to the next level. He had peaked. That is not to say BK won't win a NC at LSU, but he wasn't doing it at ND. Of that, i am convinced. I don't "hate" BK, and never have, nor am I "emotionally invested" in the guy. I simply know what I saw on the field. He was a good coach, but not a great one, and certainly not an elite one.
I am not sure if you were directing the "fan boy" comment at me, but yes, I confess I am a fan of Marcus Freeman. I am bullish about the direction of the program, as I have posted many times on this board. For one, MF has done something BK was unable to do in all his years at ND--recruit a quality QB. We will see how CJ Carr and Deuce Knight play, but elite teams start with elite play at the QB position, so you have to feel pretty good about that. Yes, that needs to tranlate to wins, but I think we could be on the precipice of something special. Then again, maybe that is why I drink the green Koolaid.
There's a reason why Notre Dame was 6-6 in 2009 with Jimmy Clausen and Golden Tate, and all that NFL talent.
The program sucked.
Last I looked, there were 11 players on offense, 11 players on defense and probably 4 special teams players, ergo 4, 5 or 6 out of 26 isn’t a team loaded with talent, especially when some players have the same position.
Teams loaded with talent don’t go 6-6, 7-6 and 3-9.
As Bill Parcells stated, you are what your record says you are, and records of 6-6, 7-6 and
3-9 are mediocre to poor teams, at best, especially when so many on this site are claiming that you need an exceptional quarterback to have a successful team.
BK Inherited a few good players, and nothing more
MF inherited a highly successful program with significant talent
The respective records prove my point and undermine your narrative
Try dealing with the facts instead of your emotions
I know you couldn't comprehend and I already know you cannot admit when you are wrong.
It is very sad
Yes, many teams loaded with talent have poor records. It happens every year.
Having over 20 players on a roster that make it to the NFL is loaded with talent. Including multiple 1st rd picks and 2 NFL hall of famers
95% of schools would be envious of that talent
The previous staff underachieved. Apparently that is not possible according to you. Which is mind bogglingly dumb. Kelly took over a roster with a ton of talent
You dont have to believe me. I dont care. Believe the NFL. Which you say is extremely difficult to get into and you have to be a great player to make.
The NFL told you that team was loaded. Dont take my word for it. That is the ultimate facts. My feelings about it dont matter. Yours don't either
The NFL already spoke on it
Name the teams that are loaded with talent that had poor records for 3 years
You named 6 players out of 26, 2 of whom played the same position.
And wasn’t BK’s starting QB a QB who you were highly critical of ?
The W-L record of those teams is indicative of the level of talent they possessed, not your flawed narrative
No I didn't. I named 11. Read again.
PLEASE TRY READING. I KNOW IT'S HARD. SO I'M GOING TO WRITE IN BOLD
DONT LISTEN TO ME. DONT BELIEVE ME. LIKE YOU SAID I DONT KNOW ANYTHING
SO JUST LISTEN TO THE NFL. THE 2010 ROSTER HAD OVER 20 PLAYERS WHO PLAYED IN THE NFL
LOADED!
You named 6, 2 of whom played the same position, and they didn’t play for all three years
Since your memory fails you, I’m going to quote you.
Here are the 6 you listed
“How were...
Zach Martin
Manti Teo
Kyle Rudolph
Tyler Eifert
Michael Floyd
Harrison Smith”
Remind me again, what quarterbacks did BK inherit?
How about the defensive line, who did he inherit from the 2009 team
And what were the previous three year records of the team BK Inherited for his 2010 team
6-6
7-6
3-9
Case closed !
You know nothing about football
Freeman did not play a lot tougher schedule in his first two years. The 2010 schedule featured only one team with a losing record. 2011 had six opponents with losing records but two of which were big conference teams that lost their bowls to finish 6-7. The 2011 schedule had five teams that finished ranked and four in the top 12.
Freeman has faced nine teams with a losing record plus an FCS team against the seven that Kelly faced. They both played eight teams that finished in the top 25.
Perhaps Freeman has played tougher schedules but the difference is slim if even that.
Freeman took over a better program but I’ll never agree that the program was in the dumps. 7-6 and 6-6 aren’t good records, but the talent was there and the 2009 team lost all of their games by one score.
the two toughest teams from that comparison are Oklahoma State 2021 and Ohio State 2023.
Nope! I named 11. Read again 🤣🤣
Like I said, don't believe me. I just post on an internet like you
The NFL already answered this question. Are you saying you know more than NFL GMS and coaches?
I'll wait for your response. Thanks
2010 Stanford had Andrew Luck as their QB and went 12-1. Their only loss was to Oregon who lost by 3 points to 14-0 Auburn in the championship. I’d take Stanford. Its kind of crazy to think that they might have two titles by now had Harbaugh stayed.
I wasn’t thinking about Okie State in 2021. That does change the math a bit. I still really with they hadn’t lost that game (don’t we all).
You’re a liar, that’s not what I said. You said they were LOADED with talent and I said they had limited talent.
Stop lying in an effort to support your false narrative !
Here’s the roster for 2010, the one that BK inherited
You said it was LOADED with talent
Start with the QB and identify all the talent for us, especially on defense.
| Player | Class | Pos | Summary |
|---|---|---|---|
| Player | Class | Pos | Summary |
| Dayne Crist* | JR | QB | 174 Cmp, 294 Att, 2033 Yds, 15 TD |
| Tommy Rees | FR | QB | 100 Cmp, 164 Att, 1106 Yds, 12 TD |
| Luke Massa | FR | QB | |
| Nate Montana | JR | QB | 9 Cmp, 18 Att, 116 Yds, 0 TD |
| Armando Allen* | SR | RB | 107 Att, 514 Yds, 4.8 Avg |
| Patrick Coughlin | SR | RB | |
| Cierre Wood | SO | RB | 119 Att, 603 Yds, 5.1 Avg |
| Robert Hughes | SR | RB | 68 Att, 300 Yds, 4.4 Avg |
| Jonas Gray | JR | RB | 20 Att, 100 Yds, 5.0 Avg |
| Theo Riddick* | SO | WR | 40 Rec, 414 Yds, 10.4 Avg |
| Michael Floyd* | JR | WR | 79 Rec, 1025 Yds, 13.0 Avg |
| T.J. Jones* | FR | WR | 23 Rec, 306 Yds, 13.3 Avg |
| T.J. Jones* | FR | WR | 23 Rec, 306 Yds, 13.3 Avg |
| John Goodman | JR | WR | 15 Rec, 146 Yds, 9.7 Avg |
| Barry Gallup Jr. | SR | WR | |
| Daniel Smith | FR | WR | |
| Robby Toma | SO | WR | 14 Rec, 187 Yds, 13.4 Avg |
| Duval Kamara | SR | WR | 11 Rec, 112 Yds, 10.2 Avg |
| Bennett Jackson | FR | WR | |
| Austin Collinsworth | FR | WR | |
| Tyler Eifert* | SO | TE | 27 Rec, 352 Yds, 13.0 Avg |
| Kyle Rudolph | JR | TE | 28 Rec, 328 Yds, 11.7 Avg |
| Mike Ragone | SR | TE | 3 Rec, 32 Yds, 10.7 Avg |
| Bobby Burger | SR | TE | |
| Braxston Cave* | JR | OL | |
| Zack Martin* | SO | OL | |
| Taylor Dever* | OL | ||
| Trevor Robinson* | OL | ||
| Chris Stewart* | OL | ||
| Jordan Cowart | SO | OL | |
| Matt Romine | OL | ||
| David Ruffer | SR | K | |
| Nick Tausch | SO | K | |
| Ethan Johnson* | JR | DL | |
| Kapron Lewis-Moore* | JR | DL | |
| Kerry Neal* | SR | DL | |
| Ian Williams* | SR | DL | |
| Sean Cwynar | JR | DL | |
| Emeka Nwankwo | SR | DL | |
| Kona Schwenke | FR | DL | |
| Tyler Stockton | SO | DL | |
| Hafis Williams | JR | DL | |
| Carlo Calabrese* | SO | LB | |
| Manti Te'o* | SO | LB | |
| Darius Fleming* | JR | LB | |
| Steve Filer | JR | LB | |
| Dan Fox | SO | LB | |
| Anthony McDonald | JR | LB | |
| David Posluszny | JR | LB | |
| Prince Shembo | FR | LB | |
| Brian Smith | SR | LB | |
| Gary Gray* | SR | DB | |
| Zeke Motta* | SO | DB | |
| Harrison Smith* | SR | DB | |
| Darrin Walls* | SR | DB | |
| Michael Garcia | SR | DB | |
| Dan McCarthy | JR | DB | |
| Chris Salvi | SR | DB | |
| Lo Wood | FR | DB | |
| Robert Blanton | JR | DB | |
| Jamoris Slaughter | JR | DB | |
| Ben Turk | SO | P |
Kelly never, ever solved the quarterback problem at Notre Dame. It was solved for him at LSU when he arrived. (I'll go as far as to say he created the quarterback problem at ND and lived with it). MF recognizes the deficit that has existed...and he is closing the gap under center. This year will be interesting since Riley is going to be late to the party. But, likewise, the defense is closing the gap too. Freeman has this team within striking distance. This should be a no excuses year.
