There is so much made about beating ranked teams. I have never been able to get complete confirmation on what a victory over a ranked team means. If you played and beat teams like Louisville and Navy, who were ranked at the time, but are not ranked now, does that count as a win over a ranked team?
Ranked when you played? Or seasons end?
- Thread starter IrishExpert2288
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They do both depending on what narrative they want to push. For example if playoff com. wants to justify PSU or Indiana ahead of ND they will use current rankings & not rankings when teams played. If they want to justify SEC teams over ND they will push rankings when teams played.
This is a deep discussion. Really beyond a chat board exchange. A matter of statistics, where prediction and evaluation can be debated even with complete data.
But, that's the operative term: complete data. What is that? A full season.
Each game obviously must be reevaluated as the season unfolds. ND losing to NIU weighed heavily at the time. Less so in lieu of how things have gone till now.
Sure, some teams might have been ranked higher than they should have. Some teams that weren't ranked now are. Some teams are yet better or worse than their rankings indicate.
I will say this: over and over complete season, results and weightings should normalize to their approximate truth. Again, statistical analysis may not be fully predictive, with some margin of error. We all know this by common sense...especially that you also have to apply some human judgment, that so called eye test.
My take: ND generously is ranked #6 in some polls. I don't mind. In my view, the aim of these nebulous polls really is to ensure the best 1st 6 get into the playoffs...tolerating some error with the last 6. ND deserves to be in the playoffs at this time. Win out with conviction and 100% ND should be in.
Fair overall.
But, that's the operative term: complete data. What is that? A full season.
Each game obviously must be reevaluated as the season unfolds. ND losing to NIU weighed heavily at the time. Less so in lieu of how things have gone till now.
Sure, some teams might have been ranked higher than they should have. Some teams that weren't ranked now are. Some teams are yet better or worse than their rankings indicate.
I will say this: over and over complete season, results and weightings should normalize to their approximate truth. Again, statistical analysis may not be fully predictive, with some margin of error. We all know this by common sense...especially that you also have to apply some human judgment, that so called eye test.
My take: ND generously is ranked #6 in some polls. I don't mind. In my view, the aim of these nebulous polls really is to ensure the best 1st 6 get into the playoffs...tolerating some error with the last 6. ND deserves to be in the playoffs at this time. Win out with conviction and 100% ND should be in.
Fair overall.
Agreed. FSU is a great example. G Tech beat them at the start when FSU was top 10. It seemed to be a big upset. Now we know it wasn’t
It clearly should be where you're ranked at the end of the season. Anything involving stroking your chin, putting some thought into it and figuring out in your mind who the best teams are is going to be fraught. And an impossible task to do right by, or justice to. But that one's easy, it's where a team finishes up that matters, as far as SOS considerations. I don't know what a professional logician would say, but I have to think he would agree. Only thing you can say, is that your victory over some team, gave them a loss, and is what helped push them down the charts to begin with. And if you hadn't, maybe they'd still be highly ranked. Or at least, one less loss. But I think that's probably an intellectual illusion.
The truth is there are no rankings. There is no such thing as the 7th best team in the country, or 12th or 1st or anything. So if you're going to rank them anyway, at least wait until all the results are in.
The truth is there are no rankings. There is no such thing as the 7th best team in the country, or 12th or 1st or anything. So if you're going to rank them anyway, at least wait until all the results are in.
What are pre season or in season rankings?
At the end of the day, they're meaningless, IMO.
The only ranking that matters is the last ranking by the CFB playoff committee.
It's why I enjoy the NFL so much.
I don't think #6 for ND is a generous ranking at all. They've earned it in my opinion. Since the NIU debacle they've taken care of business quite decisively. Penn St at #4 seems quite generous in my opinion. Their body of work lacks a lot of substance.
Sometimes it feels like the talking heads on ESPN evaluate wins for ND at the end of the season, and when it’s played for everyone else….
Maybe I’m biased 😉
Maybe I’m biased 😉
You can only beat who you play when you played them.
Teams gain or lose strength during the course of a season.
A Strong team in September could be weaker in December due to injuries.
And a weak team in September could gain strength as they gel as the season progresses.
When you played them seems like the more valid metric
This means Navy is a quality top 25 win.
Which I would disagree with. It wasn’t then. It isn’t now.
The end of the season makes more sense. However, if a team that you beat is just out of the rankings (like around 26-30), then it could be argued that but for your victory over them, they'd be ranked. So that's a good win, too IMO.
You probably are right about Penn St. But I am more focused on ND, obviously being a fan.
NIU and the SOS are the main general reasons I consider #6 generous. The specific reasons are RL, the OL, Denbrock, and MF together with regards to the O...and how would they fare against a top 10.
Again, I'm happy and satisfied. ND deserves some blue blood favoritism given how the NCAA and football factories operate. ND for sure up to now has earned a playoff, whatever the ranking...all I ask for is a playoff berth.
Frankly I agree. I watch a lot of CFB, and 6 seems a tad generous to me as well. I would go 8-9. That said, they’ll certainly get their shot to go as far as they can.
Of course you think ND at #6 (really #8 with the auto bids) is generous because you're a USC troll and all you do is sh!tpost about ND on this board. It's a quite sad hobby you have & disturbing that a middle aged man like yourself indulges in it as frequently as you do. Get a better life sport.
So when an undefeated team ranked # 2 loses to Notre Dame in game three of the season and their spectacular QB has a season ending injury on the last play of the game and they lose three more games, and end up ranked in the 40s at the end of the season, you think that our SOS should be based on the end of season rankings
It does matter, because in order to end up number one at the end of the season, you have to be one of the 12 teams selected for the playoffs, ergo ranking is important
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