QB Open For Discussion

[echowaker]

Yep...Einstein...

That's why Book was an after thought after 15 experiments with Wimbush.

That's why Zaire was the clearly better player than Kizer...not once but twice because even after a season of really good QB play BK still wasn't convinced and had to embarrass himself in Austin playing musical quarterbacks.

The most important position on the team yet BK somehow has no idea who the fukc should be starting.

Yeah BK and staff always have the proper players participating.

Have a great day

the wheels on the bus........the regurgitating continues.

 

[Kelso86]

Wait....

You think the QB position was the issue in a loss where 90+ points were scored?? (Texas)

And you don’t think a QB who’s 13-3 as a starter at ND and is fantastically physically talented should have been given every shot to hold the starting spot??

Do you only say retarded things?
Or are you gonna say something smart soon?

"Do you only say retarded things?
Or are you gonna say something smart soon"

You do realize who you are asking that question to?

 

[echowaker]

You have no idea WTF you're talking about. The problem is you think you think you do which makes you twice as ignorant.

Our players play when OUR coaching staff is good and damn ready to put them in.

If Bama gets five stars...ok...guess who is in front of that five star??? More talent. Yet they get those kids involved.

Why?

Coaching. They teach. They win.

players play when they've EARNED their time. as it should be.

 

[Get Nasty]

Floyd was never once reported as "having his head up his ass" with reference to football performance.....in fact he was typically described as 100% focused on improving on the field.
(I actually had some classes with him, so I now he DGAF there)

Dex just wasn't that way.
He really wanted to play, but he didn't want to develop the areas of his game that allow him to do so. BK and other coaches got what they could out of him for 3 years.......and then he buckled down as a senior and allowed them to get a lot out of him.

Not sure what anyone wants them to do differently there?
- Not recruit a "borderline" kid like Dex?
- Don't try to get "at least something" out of him early in his career?
- Cut him when he's being uncoachable?






As for Kelly's job security......your opinion is just dumb.

Kelly is probably a Top10 Coach in CFB, he's just not one of the Top2-3.

Dex is a recruit that goes to southern power house schools all the time and they find ways to get them much more playing time because the talent is undeniable. It's not the BK and or ND way, I know a lot of time academics has obviously a much more influence. My point is when you recruit stud skill players you need to get them involved ASAP, all the elite teams do.

I wasn't talking about Kelly's job security, i was talking about how I feel about him and my trust in him. He was trending in the right direction for ME to believe he might make the jump to the next echelon of coaches, then Clemson happened (DID NOT SEE THAT COMING). I don't know if he has the coaching ability to beat a top level program/team/coach when both coaches/teams have 4 weeks, and ND actually had 5 and one less game. I agree that Kelly isn't going anywhere as long as he wants to be at ND, and I'm completely good with that, because ND isn't landing a proven coach better than Kelly.

 

[Pennick4]

That's where I struggle with BK. If people do have a head up their ass, won't practice hard, won't learn the plays, you don't play them. You don't bring them in occasionally off and on with no consistency. Just doesn't work. I see the top teams young players out of position, missing blocks, etc but still playing because of their talent and talent wins games. If its grades that holds most players back at ND thats one thing, but by all accounts MF you speak of was not good in school, slacked off in practice, and had his head up his ass but balled out in games and always played.

I like BK as a coach, i think he's on the next level just below the top coaches. He's changed a lot over the last 2 years because of 2016, i hope he continues and we see improvements on getting our talent on the field more often. Because of 2016, he will always be on thin ice with me until he wins a championship. 2018 did a lot to help, but the clemson game brought him back down. Can't lay an egg twice now on that big of a stage.

Pretty sure he isn't staying up late at night because you have him on thin ice.

 

[Get Nasty]

I see a lot of people talking about Dexter's lack of playing time before this year and the reason why. His attitude/lack of development was part of the problem but it wasn't the only issue. He was also injury prone before 2018. I think a lot of people have forgotten that part.

Of course, but it's also difficult to ride the bench and be motivated to practice. Some have it, some don't. I think the hardest part is when you know and see you are the better player, and aren't playing for whatever reason. That just doesn't happen much at the top. They get their best and most talented players on the field.

 

[Get Nasty]

Pretty sure he isn't staying up late at night because you have him on thin ice.

If he knew I was the Iceman he would

 

[Get Nasty]

Wait....

You think the QB position was the issue in a loss where 90+ points were scored?? (Texas)

And you don’t think a QB who’s 13-3 as a starter at ND and is fantastically physically talented should have been given every shot to hold the starting spot??

Do you only say retarded things?
Or are you gonna say something smart soon?

QB position wasn't the issue vs Texas, but Kizer as QB the entire game and we win the game because of our QB play and despite our D and possibly the most moronic game plan ever even for BVG.

 

[Get Nasty]

And Avery Davis. Will his role take a step forward? How can Chip use Avery's speed to the offense advantage?

What speed, he's got average RB speed?

 

[Get Nasty]

Hahahaha wow- no matter what IIO told you, Floyd was a generational talent and great player. To IIIO and Chases point, there's a reason Chase was a 3 star recruit for the majority of his recruitment. Mike Floyd was a baller, top 15 pick, Clapool will be lucky to be drafted.

Claypool got a higher draft grade than Boykin did, difference is boykin graduated and can't really do much more, he is what ht is. Claypool has room to grow, the offense has room to improve and utilize him better, and he has wayyyyy more talent than boykin, and I still think the potential to have a better NFL career than Floyd.

 

[Get Nasty]

players play when they've EARNED their time. as it should be.

that's BS...... Players play when they are more talented than the other players, and coaches figure out how to get them on the field. This earn crap is old school and gone. It's the new formula that has bama, clemson, osu, and georgia dominating recruiting and putting a heck of a product on the field. Not because players "earned it" but because they are frichan talented as can be.

 

[88ND]

Zaire was better than Kizer? Haha

No. That was said in sarcasm as in our genius coaching staff thought that....whilst Kizer playing a full year after Zaire was hurt the genius Brian Kelly still couldnt figure out Kizer was the better QB untik being embarrassed in Austin

 

[88ND]

Tell us about that " season under Zaire"

Already explained and obviously you didn't catch on the direction of the message

 

[echowaker]

No. That was said in sarcasm as in our genius coaching staff thought that....whilst Kizer playing a full year after Zaire was hurt the genius Brian Kelly still couldnt figure out Kizer was the better QB untik being embarrassed in Austin

You mean the game where ND scored 47 and lost in overtime ? i can see where the offense cost them that game......

 

[88ND]

the wheels on the bus........the regurgitating continues.

Hey...
How is my #1 follower and the #1 ass wiper of our incompetent coaching staff this morning?

 

[echowaker]

Of course, but it's also difficult to ride the bench and be motivated to practice. Some have it, some don't. I think the hardest part is when you know and see you are the better player, and aren't playing for whatever reason. That just doesn't happen much at the top. They get their best and most talented players on the field.

disagree. you EARN playing time. your teammates know who is putting the work in and who isn't. Dex was always the best runner but not very astute in the other facets of playing the position until this past season and lets face it his off the field decision making wasn't very good either.

 

[echowaker]

Hey...
How is my #1 follower and the #1 ass wiper of our incompetent coaching staff this morning?

don't flatter yourself i'm far from your #1 follower. i just like to point out the continual vomit feast. as far as the coaching staff goes i think they're pretty damn good. not elite but pretty good. obviously their bosses think so also. i'll leave the uneducated drivel to you and a few others. oh, and by the way i'm doing just great thank you. just perusing the board as I work on spring sports transportation schedules.

 

[88ND]

players play when they've EARNED their time. as it should be.

Aaawwweeeee...

More feel good trophies for the trying hard club?

Ever the celebratory mindset for mediocre football.

Players earn playing time and at certain moments it's a great thing. AS IT SHOULD BE!!!!

The feel good stories playing prominent key roles I give you Brian Kelly and his brilliant personnel decisions being embarrassed in the biggest of games.

 

[echowaker]

Aaawwweeeee...

More feel good trophies for the trying hard club?

Ever the celebratory mindset for mediocre football.

Players earn playing time and at certain moments it's a great thing. AS IT SHOULD BE!!!!

The feel good stories playing prominent key roles I give you Brian Kelly and his brilliant personnel decisions being embarrassed in the biggest of games.

as usual you're making zero sense. please enlighten us to this plethora of bad personnel decisions that directly impacted the "biggest " of games ? you continue to throw s**t at the wall and yet nothing sticks. so a player should not earn his time ? should playing time be determined by recruiting services ? really curious as to when you might actually make some sense.

 

[88ND]

don't flatter yourself i'm far from your #1 follower. i just like to point out the continual vomit feast. as far as the coaching staff goes i think they're pretty damn good. not elite but pretty good. obviously their bosses think so also. i'll leave the uneducated drivel to you and a few others. oh, and by the way i'm doing just great thank you. just perusing the board as I work on spring sports transportation schedules.

You can't help yourself. The most hilarious part of it all is how you speak to the public yet claim to be an AD.

In typical liberal fashion when someone says something that you don't agree with you don't debate...you just go in full blown frenzy psycho mode.

 

[Get Nasty]

disagree. you EARN playing time. your teammates know who is putting the work in and who isn't. Dex was always the best runner but not very astute in the other facets of playing the position until this past season and lets face it his off the field decision making wasn't very good either.

i agree the dex had issues and held himself back, but I also believe kelly isn't the type of coach that does well with help "straightening" players out. He also has a heavy lean towards trust in players over talent of players. Helps create more consistency, but doesn't allow you to be the best team you can be.

 

[echowaker]

You can't help yourself. The most hilarious part of it all is how you speak to the public yet claim to be an AD.

In typical liberal fashion when someone says something that you don't agree with you don't debate...you just go in full blown frenzy psycho mode.

yes i deal with the public all the time. no claim at all i am an AD. "psycho mode " ? really ? its a message board. i have zero emotion here. nothing posted here effects my life one iota. i'm here for the most part for intelligent football discussion which i get from many posters. i also enjoy the entertainment value i get from the uneducated drivel from yourself and a few others. it's quite easy to tell who knows the game and who doesn't.

 

[echowaker]

i agree the dex had issues and held himself back, but I also believe kelly isn't the type of coach that does well with help "straightening" players out. He also has a heavy lean towards trust in players over talent of players. Helps create more consistency, but doesn't allow you to be the best team you can be.

i just think it's an easy way to lose a team when you play players who haven't done the work. the players know who's giving effort and who's not. slippery slope. the biggest obstacle Dex had to seeing the field was himself. it's great that the light came on for him this past season and hopefully that pays off for him at the next level. the greats are the hardest workers and the most talented.

 

[Kelso86]

and after an exchange of barbs, we move further into the action of insults in the 88ND/echowaker drama thread.....

 

[88ND]

as usual you're making zero sense. please enlighten us to this plethora of bad personnel decisions that directly impacted the "biggest " of games ? you continue to throw s**t at the wall and yet nothing sticks. so a player should not earn his time ? should playing time be determined by recruiting services ? really curious as to when you might actually make some sense.

I don't have any more time this morning as I've got to make the world turn....but in between your strenuous time taxing bus scheduling affair just think for one moment.. ..Just one...
BK handling of the most important position on the team....the QB

Kizer was far and away the better QB yet never sees the field if Zaire isn't injured. Kizer played an entire year and it still wasn't enough until BK embarrassed himself in Austin playing musical quarterbacks.

Wimbush and his 15 starts. How about just the fact that our passing offense was stuck in mud with Wimbush leading up to the bowl game with LSU. Then in the bowl game we did nothing as LSU dared us to pass.

Book gets the nod after repeated possessions of doing nothing with Wimbush and what do ya know...we actually move the ball. We win the game.

Yet that still wasn't enough to give Book the starting job this past year. We still endured three more games of piss poor passing before BK finally put the better QB in the lineup.

Would Book have played better against Clemson had he been the one who started the previous 21 games instead of the last 7 of 8.

His handling of the depth chart sucks. His game planning for big games...with a month to prepare mind you...sucks.

I like results

You like excuses.

 

[echowaker]

I don't have any more time this morning as I've got to make the world turn....but in between your strenuous time taxing bus scheduling affair just think for one moment.. ..Just one...
BK handling of the most important position on the team....the QB

Kizer was far and away the better QB yet never sees the field if Zaire isn't injured. Kizer played an entire year and it still wasn't enough until BK embarrassed himself in Austin playing musical quarterbacks.

Wimbush and his 15 starts. How about just the fact that our passing offense was stuck in mud with Wimbush leading up to the bowl game with LSU. Then in the bowl game we did nothing as LSU dared us to pass.

Book gets the nod after repeated possessions of doing nothing with Wimbush and what do ya know...we actually move the ball. We win the game.

Yet that still wasn't enough to give Book the starting job this past year. We still endured three more games of piss poor passing before BK finally put the better QB in the lineup.

Would Book have played better against Clemson had he been the one who started the previous 21 games instead of the last 7 of 8.

His handling of the depth chart sucks. His game planning for big games...with a month to prepare mind you...sucks.

I like results

You like excuses.

i like results too. understanding why things are done the way they are is not an excuse. it's knowledge. you're nothing more than a hindsighter. funny how you like to make fun of my profession but are way too cowardly to enlighten all of us on yours and your background yet we are supposed to believe you "make the world turn " ? c'mon. for the record yes transportation schedules for all of our sports is one of many responsibilities. i doubt you could handle the job.

 

[chitown sot]

that's BS...... Players play when they are more talented than the other players, and coaches figure out how to get them on the field. This earn crap is old school and gone. It's the new formula that has bama, clemson, osu, and georgia dominating recruiting and putting a heck of a product on the field. Not because players "earned it" but because they are frichan talented as can be.

echo boy the "wannabee" coach

 

[Pennick4]

Claypool got a higher draft grade than Boykin did, difference is boykin graduated and can't really do much more, he is what ht is. Claypool has room to grow, the offense has room to improve and utilize him better, and he has wayyyyy more talent than boykin, and I still think the potential to have a better NFL career than Floyd.

Now we know who has been drafting for the Browns the last 30 years.
Boykin much superior WR. Claypool excellent special teams player.

 

[echowaker]

echo boy the "wannabee" coach

nothing "wannabee" about it. did it for over 20 years. you ?

 

[echowaker]

that's BS...... Players play when they are more talented than the other players, and coaches figure out how to get them on the field. This earn crap is old school and gone. It's the new formula that has bama, clemson, osu, and georgia dominating recruiting and putting a heck of a product on the field. Not because players "earned it" but because they are frichan talented as can be.

you're so far off. i've known coach a long long time. he doesn't put any player on the field who hasn't earned their time. you're flat out wrong.

 

[chitown sot]

You can't help yourself. The most hilarious part of it all is how you speak to the public yet claim to be an AD.

In typical liberal fashion when someone says something that you don't agree with you don't debate...you just go in full blown frenzy psycho mode.

"acting AD". Working on spring transportation schedules? Will they be traveling by horse and buggy or fred flinstone cars mr "green libby"?

 

[FriedmanIP]

Dex is a recruit that goes to southern power house schools all the time and they find ways to get them much more playing time because the talent is undeniable. It's not the BK and or ND way, I know a lot of time academics has obviously a much more influence. My point is when you recruit stud skill players you need to get them involved ASAP, all the elite teams do.

I wasn't talking about Kelly's job security, i was talking about how I feel about him and my trust in him. He was trending in the right direction for ME to believe he might make the jump to the next echelon of coaches, then Clemson happened (DID NOT SEE THAT COMING). I don't know if he has the coaching ability to beat a top level program/team/coach when both coaches/teams have 4 weeks, and ND actually had 5 and one less game. I agree that Kelly isn't going anywhere as long as he wants to be at ND, and I'm completely good with that, because ND isn't landing a proven coach better than Kelly.

Everything you’re saying is just wrong.

Alvin Kamara was clearly SUPER TALENTED, but not only could he not get on the field early at Alabama, Saban processed him altogether.

Why?
Doesn’t Saban just put all their talent on them field right away? (like you claim)

In reality, he was on the bench and then processed because he had his head up his ass.

Saban doesn’t tolerate that any more than Kelly does.

 

[Get Nasty]

Now we know who has been drafting for the Browns the last 30 years.
Boykin much superior WR. Claypool excellent special teams player.

You would have said the same thing last year on Adams vs Dex (not ST). Adams didn't get drafted and won't last long in the nfl, and dex is projected to get drafted as early as the 3rd round. Same thing will happey with Miles and CHase. Miles will be lucky to get drafted late, and Chase depending on next year will be drafted much much earlier.

 

[Get Nasty]

Everything you’re saying is just wrong.

Alvin Kamara was clearly SUPER TALENTED, but not only could he not get on the field early at Alabama, Saban processed him altogether.

Why?
Doesn’t Saban just put all their talent on them field right away? (like you claim)

In reality, he was on the bench and then processed because he had his head up his ass.

Saban doesn’t tolerate that any more than Kelly does.

Good comparison. Kamara comes in with Derrick Henry on a team that had TJ Yeldon and Kenyan Drake. Great comparison. 3 NFL RBs on the roster and the #1 RB recruit with him. Kamara was by Sabans account doing really well and then got injured, and decided to transfer because of the log jam and not being comfortable at BAMA (Do i need to post a link to help out?). Dex comes in with CJ Procise (converted WR), Folston solid RB, but not NFL caliber, and with Adams a 3 star often injured.

I

 

[FriedmanIP]

What speed, he's got average RB speed?

I’m not sure we’ve ever seen what his long speed actually looks like.

His quickness and burst looked good though.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Claypool got a higher draft grade than Boykin did, difference is boykin graduated and can't really do much more, he is what ht is. Claypool has room to grow, the offense has room to improve and utilize him better, and he has wayyyyy more talent than boykin, and I still think the potential to have a better NFL career than Floyd.

There are only 3 draft grades:
- 1st Round
- 2nd Round
- Return to School

Boykin and Claypool received the same draft grade, “Return to School”.

Boykin was actually the better WR in 2018
(though Claypool has more raw talent)

And Claypool could have a better NFL career than Floyd (maybe) due to Floyd’s alcoholism. But Claypool is still no where near as talented as Floyd. Not even close.

That contention of yours gets more idiotic nand hysterical every time you say it.

 

[Toby Smart]

And back to Avery. He has speed. We need speed on offense. How can Avery's role be upgraded in the 2019 offense? Can he a viable offense weapon?

 

[FriedmanIP]

that's BS...... Players play when they are more talented than the other players, and coaches figure out how to get them on the field. This earn crap is old school and gone. It's the new formula that has bama, clemson, osu, and georgia dominating recruiting and putting a heck of a product on the field. Not because players "earned it" but because they are frichan talented as can be.

This is absolutely retarded and the opposite of the truth.

Players play when they earn it, and not a minute before.

Talent helps a player earn it, but it’s nit enough on its own, at any school. (See Alvin Kamara getting benched and processed At Alabama, etc).

This idea that Saban or Meyer do something other than force players to earn every minute of their PT is just moronic.

Right up there with your “Claypool is more talented than Michael Floyd” comments.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Aaawwweeeee...

More feel good trophies for the trying hard club?

Ever the celebratory mindset for mediocre football.

Players earn playing time and at certain moments it's a great thing. AS IT SHOULD BE!!!!

The feel good stories playing prominent key roles I give you Brian Kelly and his brilliant personnel decisions being embarrassed in the biggest of games.

You’re such an idiot, it’s almost like you’re a charicature trying to mock yourself.

 

[Get Nasty]

This is absolutely retarded and the opposite of the truth.

Players play when they earn it, and not a minute before.

Talent helps a player earn it, but it’s nit enough on its own, at any school. (See Alvin Kamara getting benched and processed At Alabama, etc).

This idea that Saban or Meyer do something other than force players to earn every minute of their PT is just moronic.

Right up there with your “Claypool is more talented than Michael Floyd” comments.

https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orl...cle_4e752202-c6a4-11e7-b6b8-b31169a2c4d5.html


Here you go, he didn't get benched at bama, he was actually supposed to contribute heavily until injury. Here are actual comments from bama on how he was doing, and from kamara on why he left.

Yes other coaches play the talent more than some coaches, it's all on the program and locker room you want to have. A coach that makes the most talented players have to be as good in every detail as the serniors, i'll show you a coach that can't go too far. Saban, dabo, meyer, etc etc etc help out and push their talented players more to get them ready to play more. Its like that in all championship level sports, again, talent wins games.