Exactly a critical issue. Seems to me most 5-star QBs have not met expectations when first played or even after transferring.
Our QB for 2024
- Thread starter DieHard_Irish
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Exactly a critical issue. Seems to me most 5-star QBs have not met expectations when first played or even after transferring.
Some have elite tools and some don’t. Angeli was a 3 star bc he has limitations in arm strength. He could be Jack Coan but if ND wants a title, one thing they need is an elite QB with first round ability.
Totally disagree with this. There have been plenty of teams that won championships without elite QBs. Think Stetson Bennett, Greg McColroy. It's complete up to what kind of team is built around them. This notion that you need an elite #1 pick is just wrong. Caleb Williams will be a #1 pick, and he ain't winning a championship
We are not the type of team that can have so much elite talent it masks the lack of an elite QB
QB for is is a necessity, it is not for Alabama or Georgia
This is part of the problem. The team needs to change on offense. Plugging in a guy that is familiar with the offense you used to do will doom you to more of the same.
I say minchey and carr battle this spring. We bring in a transfer or two as transfer and back up assurance. Best player wins.
Totally disagree, without a surrounding cast it doesn't really matter how elite your QB is. 60 years of football has shown me that. Dan Marino was ultra elite and never won a super bowl. Focus on the OLine and skill positions and a good QB will get it done
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So forget Angeli, he shouldn't compete? Oh and you think Carr and Minchey would be ready? A true freshman and a redshirt Freshman. Good luck with that.
Really? You think I meant we didn't have to have talent around the QB? Come on
We need an elite QB and very good talent surrounding him. That is how we win
We cannot with a good QB because we won't have enough elite talent to make up for that
Burrow, Lawrence, Watson, Newton, Tebow, Young, Tua, Winston
We simply arent winning with a Bennett or a McElroy because we wont be able to recruit the type of talent that those teams have
We need the QB
I get using g the portal but the consequences of losing who've you spent so much time recruiting seems like a waste of time and energy
He may not have elite arm strength, but he seems to be very accurate, and looked good running the offense against Pitt. He led us on 2 touchdown drives at the end of the game, with a nice rollout TD pass to the TE.
Its harder to change a team to the QB you're going after than just use a youngman that's been faithful for 2 season waiting his time while learning the current system you would think.
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Why was Book? Why was Coan? Why was Buchner? Why was Pyne? Why were 99% of the QBs in the past 20 years? They fill a need and we missed on better guys.
Shouldn't the HC figure out an offensive scheme that fits a top QB the Irish can get?
RPOs are the game of today..evidently the Irish don't have the ability to secure a top notch RPO QB
So what else is out there? Are all HS only running RPO offenses? Can the Irish put together an offshoot type of offense with anOC that thinks outside the box?
Is there an OC out there capable of that?
There is little to no reason Hartman couldn’t have been in charge of a top 10 offense this season. The entire offensive side of the ball is a nightmare. The best running back in the country touches the ball 3 x’a in a half when we are down by 1 score. Hartman hasn’t been perfect, but the guy regressed substantially under Parker. What’s happened at ND this year is one of the worst things I’ve ever experienced as a fan. The losing seasons under Weis and Kelly or the blow out losses in the playoffs all had one thing in common. We weren’t that great and had major holes. With Weis you could blame coaching and personnel. With BK you could blame mostly lack of talent and holes when he faced Bama and Clemson. This is something different. Like BQ said, this is the most talented ND team in decades. This squad was capable of something special. It was squandered by piss pour ass coaching by a bunch of inexperienced goons. That’s the hardest pill to swallow in my 40 years as a fan. This was the most disgusting season of all.
We had Bennett, his name was Ian Book. Loved Book, but he took ND as far as it was gonna go with that level QB.
Going to the portal again next year for a QB doesn't make sense. It is time to let the recruits fight for the job.
Makes total sense for one more season, IMO. 2025 I agree.
The past 10 years I was ether working out of state, or out of the country so I would watch the games recorded and it was hard to really get involved and, i missed alot of the ins and outs.
But I retired this past fall and really tried to get deep into those ins and outs, so for me this season so far has not stung me as much as you.
I do think losing Logan Diggs hurt the running game to change up the style, though I was told ND was loaded at RB.
The lack of depth at the Wrs position turned out to be catastrophic.
I'm not sure what a more experienced OC could do with these flaws I'm sure others on the board would know but not me.
The Irish shouldn't use the QB portal on a regular basis. I like the Clemson head coach take on the portal though I'm sure I'm in the minority.
Do you believe ND will pay for a top tier OC?
Let's go for the guy from Tulane. Then Minchey will be ready the next season.....
If Michael Pratt is available, you recruit him.
Why not? 5th year QB with lots of game experience. I’d rather have 4 QB’s than 3 regardless of talent of that 4th guy.
He could easily end up being #1 or #2 next year. If that scares off a redshirt freshman or true freshman, then they weren’t meant to be here anyway.
Of course you go after him. Marcus Freeman is paid to win games, and when you are 16-8, my guess is he wants to do all he can to improve that record.
And if that means Steve Angeli leaves, so be it.
He did? As in won? Not enough to sacrifice the development of a guy already in the room. All the factors you mentioned were known by the coaching staff - first time OC, lackluster WRs and a new OL coach. I said months ago, this is a bold move and would only make sense if ND wins big this year, they in fact did not. Set the program back, although Hartman has been a great face/advocate for ND but could have played Angelli/Buchner this year gaining valuable reps/development with 2 yrs left. Now, starting from scratch in 2024, lost year.
I don’t see 2023 as a lost year at all. If the staff thought Buchner or Angeli were good enough to win 10 regular season games Sam Hartman would not be the QB. They didn’t.
Now I fully expect one more shot at a grad transfer QB, then let the QB room fight it put in 2025.
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Its not a lost year. Maybe ND goes 7-6 with those other QB’s. Hartman played great against OSU and gave ND a chance to win. Freeman can sell that loss to recruits. Winning and recruiting matters.
Freeman used up a lot of currency by going 9-4 and losing to Marshall and Stanford. It’s imperative he goes 9-4 or 10-3 this year. That wasn’t a given with the other two guys. This isn’t the NFL where everyone is bound to have a losing season and you rebuild. Showing improvement and perception matters for recruiting purposes.
Not sure. Maybe they will react to how bad the offense looked by trying to make up for it. ND seems reactionary. It’s too bad bc this season could have been one for the ages.
Just don’t see this as a strict choice between portal vs in-house development. We should not enter the season with three inexperienced scholarship QBs, and we should be on the look to improve starters and depth at every position as portal opportunities present within our admission limitations. Contrary to our recruitment of Hartman, I wouldn’t guarantee any portal transfer the starting position. We have three quality QBs on scholarship next year, and each has the potential to seriously compete for the starter position, and I have no problem adding a fourth via the portal to compete. A portal transfer QB should expect their experience to beat out our scholarship QBs, and these QBs should be confident in their skills to win the competition. The key for me is for Freeman and his OC to provide HONEST competition and not lean on the experience crutch.
I love the portal. I would totally take old boy from Tulane, for example, and then put it off one more year. Mainly because MInchey is my guy, and I don't think he would transfer if we went to the portal, and then he could be a three year starter after that. Or Carr as well.....
Where that would leave Angeli, I don't know. I guess you would do it, if you could totally get a veteran, high-quality guy, just like SH, who would come in and definitely start just like was the case with SH. Which has gone very well for us and SH has not disappointed.
But I suppose there is certainly something to be said to not taking the portal route, mainly for practical reasons because you don't want to be turning your back on your own roster over and over again if you don't have to. So that's a judgement call I guess. But next season would qualify as totally a good time to get a high-quality transfer at the all-important QB position. Otherwise you'd be reducing yourself to Angeli or Minchey, and possibly paying the price on the field for it. Even Angeli, just like Buchner before him, would still have two years left after a 2024 portal QB transferred, started and moved on from ND. So it's not like he's completely screwed. And he could transfer for his final two years if nothing else, just like Buchner could have if he hadn't transferred to Bama....
So it's not like we'd be totally screwing our own roster over, and using our in-house QBs as mere backups, with no concern for their prospects or fortunes as far as their college career goes....
Where that would leave Angeli, I don't know. I guess you would do it, if you could totally get a veteran, high-quality guy, just like SH, who would come in and definitely start just like was the case with SH. Which has gone very well for us and SH has not disappointed.
But I suppose there is certainly something to be said to not taking the portal route, mainly for practical reasons because you don't want to be turning your back on your own roster over and over again if you don't have to. So that's a judgement call I guess. But next season would qualify as totally a good time to get a high-quality transfer at the all-important QB position. Otherwise you'd be reducing yourself to Angeli or Minchey, and possibly paying the price on the field for it. Even Angeli, just like Buchner before him, would still have two years left after a 2024 portal QB transferred, started and moved on from ND. So it's not like he's completely screwed. And he could transfer for his final two years if nothing else, just like Buchner could have if he hadn't transferred to Bama....
So it's not like we'd be totally screwing our own roster over, and using our in-house QBs as mere backups, with no concern for their prospects or fortunes as far as their college career goes....
You wonder how it might hurt recruiting if QB's who commit to ND never get to play. I obviously have not seen a lot of Angeli but what I have seen has been good. Montana supposedly was not a good practice player.
