Partial ACC member...why?

[88ND]

Before everyone says the obvious about other teams needing a place to play...i don't think the benefit is as much as some think.

I don't believe being in the ACC is helping the Mens basketball team whatsoever. Once teams get in doormat mode in the ACC with Mens BB it's so extraordinarily hard to rid that.

The women's BB team just like UCONN is good no matter the conference. They can schedule whoever they want and teams will gladly play them. They and Uconn are in the upper echelon of that sport. So the ACC doesn't really help there.

Hockey..They play Big 10 teams. ACC no help.

Football is the half ass member but only because the other teams need a place to play. That was the message or excuse for joining the ACC..partially.
Big picture hurts them more than helps.
The other sports....soccer, baseball...wouldnt have trouble getting games scheduled as a lot of their games now aren't ACC games.

Did ND panic when everyone left the Big East?

Looking at everything objectively I don't see how being a member is doing more good than bad.

The three sports that ND really hangs their hat on now is hockey, womens BB, football.

Three areas that really get no benefit from the ACC and in the case of foitball having to schedule those mandatory 5 games is a big pain in the ass.

 

[nemeth#5]

Looking at everything objectively

This quote above made me laugh.

But in regards to your negative thoughts on the ACC and ND's quasi relationship.... I side with the thought that the powers at be know a lot more about the +/-'s than us internet posters do........ just as I think Brian Kelly knows more about football than even you think you know about it.

I enjoy ND playing the top teams in the ACC.... last night they played UNC hard with a young, limited roster.... fell apart at the end but they had a shot. And as far as a team becoming a 'doormat mode'..... are you suggesting that ND is now the doormat? ND won the ACC tourney in like 2015 (?) and made the championship again a couple years ago.

 

[lyonhawk]

Access to their bowl games.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Built in structure of the scheduled games is more economically efficient for the non-revenue teams. Swarbrick licks chilling on the east coast so it's his way of hiding vacation time. Didnt realize ND had become a doormat in the ACC.

 

[88ND]

Built in structure of the scheduled games is more economically efficient for the non-revenue teams. Swarbrick licks chilling on the east coast so it's his way of hiding vacation time. Didnt realize ND had become a doormat in the ACC.

In Mens BB .... Watch what happens.

 

[88ND]

Built in structure of the scheduled games is more economically efficient for the non-revenue teams. Swarbrick licks chilling on the east coast so it's his way of hiding vacation time. Didnt realize ND had become a doormat in the ACC.

They could have got structure from the American conference, conference USA...conferences I'm sure would have welcomed the non football teams without forcing a commitment to play xyz football games every year.

My point is dabbling in the ACC with football is not having as much of a positive impact as having the 5 dates they could schedule whoever they liked.

ND loves having a national presence and this ACC commitment hinders that....yet they don't compete for the conference championship.

No I'm not advocating they be a full-time member because I think they are at their best when they're totally and truly independent....but this half assed thing just so Mens BB can get a beat down on tobacco road is pretty ridiculous.

 

[twalsh]

In Mens BB .... Watch what happens.

In our first year in the ACC we looked like we didn't belong. Two years later we won the ACC tournament, beating Duke and UNC to do it. Things ebb and flow. Just because our young team is struggling right now doesn't mean we are becoming a doormat. Way too dramatic.

 

[Ara64]

They have gained access into the power 5 conferences because they are partial members in the ACC in football, and are full members in all their other sports except hockey. They have access into the college playoffs because of their ACC affiliation. Bowl access to some very nice post season bowls. Clear access into a nice conference should ND wise up and join a conference someday.

 

[twalsh]

Did ND panic when everyone left the Big East?

I wouldn't say we panicked, but we certainly had to do something. Being an independent in any sport other than football is not a viable option. Staying in the new Big East was going to be a step down in conference quality for way too many of our sports, as the best overall athletic programs in the old Big East were heading to the ACC. So, in order to find the best possible home for all the other sports that the ACC plays, we made the 5 game deal in football. And since football scheduling was getting increasingly difficult, especially with the number of conferences either playing, or talking about playing, nine game conference schedules, having that automatic five ACC games every year took some of the pressure off of that problem.

I am hard pressed to find much negative about the ACC relationship. For the athletic department as a whole, I can't see where we could have done better.

 

[88ND]

In our first year in the ACC we looked like we didn't belong. Two years later we won the ACC tournament, beating Duke and UNC to do it. Things ebb and flow. Just because our young team is struggling right now doesn't mean we are becoming a doormat. Way too dramatic.

Remember this...our team was being built before the ACC acceptance.

Two of the three players who went to the NBA committed whilst in the Big East.
Everything clicked at the right time with three NBA players that year.

How many present day players do you see playing in the NBA? Not that it means everything but it certainly helps, no?

ND Mens basketball I can see going the way of Pitt basketball.

 

[nemeth#5]

Remember this...our team was being built before the ACC acceptance.

Two of the three players who went to the NBA committed whilst in the Big East.
Everything clicked at the right time with three NBA players that year.

How many present day players do you see playing in the NBA? Not that it means everything but it certainly helps, no?

ND Mens basketball I can see going the way of Pitt basketball.

Amazing how your doom and gloom attitude covers basketball as well. ND wins the tourney in the hardest conference within a few years of joining, and competes in most years..... last year ND had their best recruiting class maybe ever (4-4 stars).... and they have a down year so far this year and now they are a doormat and comparable to Pittsburgh?

 

[88ND]

They have gained access into the power 5 conferences because they are partial members in the ACC in football, and are full members in all their other sports except hockey. They have access into the college playoffs because of their ACC affiliation. Bowl access to some very nice post season bowls. Clear access into a nice conference should ND wise up and join a conference someday.

They have access into the playoffs because the playoffs actually have ND built into its wording. Everything is power 5 conferences plus Notre Dame.

The ND brand itself is why and there would be plenty of bowl opportunities for ND in lieu of ACC or not.

Again, the brand.
NY6 bowls will take a highly ranked ND team because of the brand.

If we are excited that we can get a selection into a "nice bowl" ....
Belk Bowl
Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl or
TaxSlayer Gator Bowl
New Era Pinstripe Bowl
Hyundai Sun Bowl
Additional Bowls
Military Bowl Presented by Northrop Grumman
Walk-On’s Independence Bowl
Quick Lane Bowl
Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl or Heart of Dallas Bowl

Then the expectations have truly gone to shit.

 

[88ND]

Amazing how your doom and gloom attitude covers basketball as well. ND wins the tourney in the hardest conference within a few years of joining, and competes in most years..... last year ND had their best recruiting class maybe ever (4-4 stars).... and they have a down year so far this year and now they are a doormat and comparable to Pittsburgh?

I know you love following me but football has nothing to do with this except big picture of it hindering by the mandatory 5 games yearly stipulation.


Pitt's second home was MSG for the Big East tourney. The material they were getting was very good and they played good tough basketball. Very similar to ND.
Pitt is a shell of themselves since joining the ACC.

You want to ignore the players having the biggest impact of that elite eight 14-15 team werevrecruited prior to the ACC and that is ok....
But the question you aren't answering is how many future Pro's do you see on this team?

Not that it means everything but it certainly helps.

 

[88ND]

I wouldn't say we panicked, but we certainly had to do something. Being an independent in any sport other than football is not a viable option.

Why?
The top sports all do fine without affiliation.
Football, hockey, womens basketball...yes they are in the ACC but they could be in any lower conference or stay Indy and be just as successful...just like Uconn. That girls program is an animal that BK should be envious of what double M has done.

I say again....i believe the other sports would have been fine finding a home in any smaller conference and not have the 5 game stipulation...which I believe hurts the football program ultimately and in the end football is the bread so it damn well best be buttered


And also hurting the Mens BB program. 14-15 was four years ago. I don't wabt to see the program become a ghost but I'm afraid that's where it's going.

 

[nemeth#5]

I know you love following me but football has nothing to do with this except big picture of it hindering by the mandatory 5 games yearly stipulation.


Pitt's second home was MSG for the Big East tourney. The material they were getting was very good and they played good tough basketball. Very similar to ND.
Pitt is a shell of themselves since joining the ACC.

You want to ignore the players having the biggest impact of that elite eight 14-15 team werevrecruited prior to the ACC and that is ok....
But the question you aren't answering is how many future Pro's do you see on this team?

Not that it means everything but it certainly helps.

Why do you think ND is becoming Pittsburgh?

The question I am not answering about the future pros is only because I (unlike you) will not pretend to act like I know something when it is so obvious that I do not. I enjoy basketball, but to say that I know how to evaluate how freshman will progress into future pros or not would be a stretch. If we went solely off of 'expert' opinions, I would say there are some dudes on this team that have a shot? Like I mentioned earlier, and you wont respond to.... ND had their best class (ever?) last year with 4 ****'s.

You keep bringing up the two current NBA players (Grant and Connaughton?) and how they were recruited before the ACC and how we dont have any current NBA players that were recruited after the ACC was announced in 2012? Let's not forget that both Grant and Pat were 3 ***'s..... Also, players like Demetrius Jackson, Zach Auguste, and Bonzi Colson (probably missing a couple others that had a cup of coffee in the league) have all made NBA rosters... but I assume you are only going to count the dudes who stick around for a few years because that fits your agenda?

So, ND leaves the Big East (along with most of the schools) and joins the hardest conference in the sport.... they start competing year in and out with the "Basketball Factories" and win an ACC tourney..... they also start recruiting better.... and now that they have had a bad start to the year you are saying it was a mistake and they are (or on the verge) of becoming the doormat in the ACC...... all because they have not put out any pros in the last couple years?

 

[twalsh]

I say again....i believe the other sports would have been fine finding a home in any smaller conference and not have the 5 game stipulation...which I believe hurts the football program ultimately and in the end football is the bread so it damn well best be buttered

Unlike you I guess, doing "fine" is NOT the goal of our athletic program. We actually try to achieve excellence in all the sports we play. After the fall semester we are 9th in the Directors Cup standings. One of four ACC teams in the Top 10. What do you think we'd be if we had gone to the AAC for all sports, and kept football independent? Fine? UConn, at #49, is the highest rated AAC team.

 

[twalsh]

So, ND leaves the Big East (along with most of the schools) and joins the hardest conference in the sport.... they start competing year in and out with the "Basketball Factories" and win an ACC tourney..... they also start recruiting better.... and now that they have had a bad start to the year you are saying it was a mistake and they are (or on the verge) of becoming the doormat in the ACC...... all because they have not put out any pros in the last couple years?

Just had the best recruiting class of the entire Brey era.

 

[Scots-Irishballa]

In Mens BB .... Watch what happens.

We’re not going to field a sweet 16 ball club yearly in basketball, we also won the ACC 2-3 years ago................... It’s the most competitive league in basketball...... I also love the perks of playing on the east coast in football. Gives me a chance to go see ND games close by in the Carolinas and Kentucky area...... Something I reallly haven’t had the chance to do.......

On another note y’all might not want me to go watch any ACC games were 0-2 in games I’ve gone to see lol. Clemson 2015, Miami 2017...................


Both were miserable.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

They could have got structure from the American conference, conference USA...conferences I'm sure would have welcomed the non football teams without forcing a commitment to play xyz football games every year.

My point is dabbling in the ACC with football is not having as much of a positive impact as having the 5 dates they could schedule whoever they liked.

ND loves having a national presence and this ACC commitment hinders that....yet they don't compete for the conference championship.

No I'm not advocating they be a full-time member because I think they are at their best when they're totally and truly independent....but this half assed thing just so Mens BB can get a beat down on tobacco road is pretty ridiculous.

Those conferences also don't get multiple bids for post season play. Additionally they are lower profile and would negatively impact recruiting. How has playing 5 ACC games negatively impacted ND's national presence? They are playing in Florida and up and down the East Coast every year. If you got rid of the ACC tie-in those and went to fill in the schedule 5 games Purdue and Michigan St are going to end up taking two of those games, Boston College and Pitt (Both ACC still) will probably 2 more and then you will end up with 1 wild card. Not sure how full independence changes things that much.

 

[pikehead]

Those conferences also don't get multiple bids for post season play. Additionally they are lower profile and would negatively impact recruiting. How has playing 5 ACC games negatively impacted ND's national presence? They are playing in Florida and up and down the East Coast every year. If you got rid of the ACC tie-in those and went to fill in the schedule 5 games Purdue and Michigan St are going to end up taking two of those games, Boston College and Pitt (Both ACC still) will probably 2 more and then you will end up with 1 wild card. Not sure how full independence changes things that much.

As usual your post makes no sense and is confusing..But that is your problem

 

[echowaker]

This quote above made me laugh.

But in regards to your negative thoughts on the ACC and ND's quasi relationship.... I side with the thought that the powers at be know a lot more about the +/-'s than us internet posters do........ just as I think Brian Kelly knows more about football than even you think you know about it.

I enjoy ND playing the top teams in the ACC.... last night they played UNC hard with a young, limited roster.... fell apart at the end but they had a shot. And as far as a team becoming a 'doormat mode'..... are you suggesting that ND is now the doormat? ND won the ACC tourney in like 2015 (?) and made the championship again a couple years ago.

ND is not going to put itself in a situation that does not benefit them. period. Some folks just like to put a negative slant on everything regardless of how preposterous their position is. they can't help themselves.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

I don't follow other ND sports closely enough to know if the ACC deal is a good deal or not. But from a football perspective, I like the deal. I appreciate the flexibility as ND can schedule 4 ACC teams one year and 6 the next. Also, ACC is home to a lot of important states that ND recruits. I only wish Rutgers and Maryland could retrun to the ACC, as those are also important states for recruiting. And having access to the bowl games is a plus.

 

[mirer03]

Unlike you I guess, doing "fine" is NOT the goal of our athletic program. We actually try to achieve excellence in all the sports we play. After the fall semester we are 9th in the Directors Cup standings. One of four ACC teams in the Top 10. What do you think we'd be if we had gone to the AAC for all sports, and kept football independent? Fine? UConn, at #49, is the highest rated AAC team.

There is a reason uconn has never been on the radar of the ACC. OP doesnt seem to understand that participation in the ACC matches the culture of ND... Duke, BC, and Wake Forest have roots in faith as does ND. ND will never regionalize to the midwest and join the big ten. The Acc allows ND football to schedule a game every year on the west coast and gives ND access to Florida, Georgia, NC, SC and Virginia for recruiting in roads while also allowing ND to continue to schedule Navy and keep their independence.

The aac cant do that. The Sec isnt a cultural or academic match. The Big 12 is basically the Texas and everyone else league. The Pac 12 is too far away and to controlling of the schedule.

Full independence does not allow ND the ability to schedule at a level needed to compete nationally as most conferences require 8-9 games and teams dont want to go north in the winter.

 

[Kelso86]

This quote above made me laugh.

But in regards to your negative thoughts on the ACC and ND's quasi relationship.... I side with the thought that the powers at be know a lot more about the +/-'s than us internet posters do........ just as I think Brian Kelly knows more about football than even you think you know about it.

I enjoy ND playing the top teams in the ACC.... last night they played UNC hard with a young, limited roster.... fell apart at the end but they had a shot. And as far as a team becoming a 'doormat mode'..... are you suggesting that ND is now the doormat? ND won the ACC tourney in like 2015 (?) and made the championship again a couple years ago.

"I side with the thought that the powers at be know a lot more about the +/-'s than us internet posters do"

NO -- it simply cannot be! People like 88ND and others know way more than the administration...

 

[Kelso86]

They could have got structure from the American conference, conference USA...conferences I'm sure would have welcomed the non football teams without forcing a commitment to play xyz football games every year.

My point is dabbling in the ACC with football is not having as much of a positive impact as having the 5 dates they could schedule whoever they liked.

ND loves having a national presence and this ACC commitment hinders that....yet they don't compete for the conference championship.

No I'm not advocating they be a full-time member because I think they are at their best when they're totally and truly independent....but this half assed thing just so Mens BB can get a beat down on tobacco road is pretty ridiculous.

"but this half assed thing just so Mens BB can get a beat down on tobacco road is pretty ridiculous."

Did not ND Men's BB win the ACC just a few years ago, and was also in the championship game a year later??? Just because they may have a down year does not make them a doormat for years to come.

 

[nemeth#5]

"I side with the thought that the powers at be know a lot more about the +/-'s than us internet posters do"

NO -- it simply cannot be! People like 88ND and others know way more than the administration...

Someday we will be lucky enough to get someone in charge who is as smart as the OP is when it comes to both being a D1 AD and D1 head coach.

 

[88ND]

We’re not going to field a sweet 16 ball club yearly in basketball, we also won the ACC 2-3 years ago................... It’s the most competitive league in basketball...... I also love the perks of playing on the east coast in football. Gives me a chance to go see ND games close by in the Carolinas and Kentucky area...... Something I reallly haven’t had the chance to do.......

On another note y’all might not want me to go watch any ACC games were 0-2 in games I’ve gone to see lol. Clemson 2015, Miami 2017...................


Both were miserable.

Lol...i used to feel that way about the penguins. When we'd get some time off on the right evenings I would go see them. It took me a lot of attending before they won. Now I'm on a winning streak I'm half afraid to go back.

 

[twalsh]

"but this half assed thing just so Mens BB can get a beat down on tobacco road is pretty ridiculous."

Did not ND Men's BB win the ACC just a few years ago, and was also in the championship game a year later??? Just because they may have a down year does not make them a doormat for years to come.

In terms of player recruiting rankings, this is the best roster Brey has had at ND. I believe all scholarship players except one were in the Top 100. The only one not? John Mooney, of course. Go figure.

 

[twalsh]

Someday we will be lucky enough to get someone in charge who is as smart as the OP is when it comes to both being a D1 AD and D1 head coach.

It's fun to talk and think about what you would do if you were in some certain situation facing a coach or AD. That's part of the enjoyment of being a fan. It gets kind of insane when people think they ACTUALLY KNOW more about coaching football than someone like Brian Kelly does or more about running an athletic department than Jack Swarbrick does.

 

[88ND]

"but this half assed thing just so Mens BB can get a beat down on tobacco road is pretty ridiculous."

Did not ND Men's BB win the ACC just a few years ago, and was also in the championship game a year later??? Just because they may have a down year does not make them a doormat for years to come.

OK...so in a few years when they can't climb out of the bottom half we'll see how you feel then.

The success they had was with NBA players committed to the Big East Irish.

How many future NBA players are on the roster at present? For the nineteenth time that's not everything but it certainly helps matters.

If you see one let me know who it is because I don't see any.

I see a ton of kids who want to cross half court and wing it up Golden State style. Problem is they are not as good of shooters.
Rebounding...Mooney averages 10 per game. The next highest is below 5.

You won't win many games in the ACC shooting 30 times from the arc with a low % and getting out rebounded by a big margin nightly.

I think Brey is a good coach. I like him and he does a lot with less at times. Going into the ACC did the program no favors though

 

[nemeth#5]

It's fun to talk and think about what you would do if you were in some certain situation facing a coach or AD. That's part of the enjoyment of being a fan. It gets kind of insane when people think they ACTUALLY KNOW more about coaching football than someone like Brian Kelly does or more about running an athletic department than Jack Swarbrick does.

Exactly.... from my experiences playing football and the football I like... I would be a horrible HC... I would run it up the middle 85% of the time lol...... I-formation and maybe the wishbone! I always try and know what I don't know and .... seems to work.

 

[nemeth#5]

OK...so in a few years when they can't climb out of the bottom half we'll see how you feel then.

The success they had was with NBA players committed to the Big East Irish.

How many future NBA players are on the roster at present? For the nineteenth time that's not everything but it certainly helps matters.

If you see one let me know who it is because I don't see any.

I see a ton of kids who want to cross half court and wing it up Golden State style. Problem is they are not as good of shooters.
Rebounding...Mooney averages 10 per game. The next highest is below 5.

You won't win many games in the ACC shooting 30 times from the arc with a low % and getting out rebounded by a big margin nightly.

Like I pointed out earlier... the two NBA'ers you speak of were 3 stars...... they committed to an ND team that never won anything in the Big East.... ND had 4 top 100 4 star players commit to a team that wins and competes in the ACC?

You are forcing a square peg in a round hole here.

 

[88ND]

There is a reason uconn has never been on the radar of the ACC. OP doesnt seem to understand that participation in the ACC matches the culture of ND... Duke, BC, and Wake Forest have roots in faith as does ND.

That's coincidence

 

[88ND]

We’re not going to field a sweet 16 ball club yearly in basketball..

I'm not talking about that. Just making the tourney would be nice which I can see becoming the battle going forward.

We had three NBA players on that ACC title team. Two of them comitted to the Big East Irish.

I don't see any future Pro's at this point on the roster.

 

[nemeth#5]

I don't see any future Pro's at this point on the roster.

Why not? What qualifications do you have in evaluating freshman and how they will grow and adapt? Also, why do you think the two main players you keep quoting were only 3 stars and yet you are so certain that 0 of the 5 4 stars currently on the roster will be any better? Are you saying that Rivals was wrong in their evaluation and that you know more then they do?

 

[twalsh]

Why not? What qualifications do you have in evaluating freshman and how they will grow and adapt? Also, why do you think the two main players you keep quoting were only 3 stars and yet you are so certain that 0 of the 5 4 stars currently on the roster will be any better? Are you saying that Rivals was wrong in their evaluation and that you know more then they do?

As freshmen, DJ looked totally lost, maybe the biggest bust in ND basketball recruiting history, Grant looked like a nice player (12 pts avg), but not NBA material, Connaughton also looked like a nice player (7 pts avg) but not NBA material, and Bonzie played 12 minutes a game and averaged 5.5 points. And our current best player, and one of the best players in the ACC, averaged 3.8 minutes and 1.2 points. Right now he's the only player in D1 averaging a double double, shooting 50% from the field and 40% from 3pt.

Moral of the story? Don't write the book on any of these young kids until they have completed their career. They are just starting.

 

[Kelso86]

I'm not talking about that. Just making the tourney would be nice which I can see becoming the battle going forward.

We had three NBA players on that ACC title team. Two of them comitted to the Big East Irish.

I don't see any future Pro's at this point on the roster.

I bet you are a "joy" to live with! Reading many of your posts/rants -- dude, all you do is look at the negativity of it all. Sometimes, you just have to step back and enjoy life and all that comes with it.

 

[nemeth#5]

I bet you are a "joy" to live with! Reading many of your posts/rants -- dude, all you do is look at the negativity of it all. Sometimes, you just have to step back and enjoy life and all that comes with it.

ND joins ACC.... wins hardest tourney, competes with the blue bloods of basketball , has their best recruiting classes ever...... has a bad start and all of a sudden 88 proclaims it was a bad move because the last two players to make the NBA (not true) committed before ND made the jump. Now ND will become a doormat in the ACC.....

You have to try and turn this into such a negative..... I am surprised we haven't heard how it was BK's fault.

 

[echowaker]

ND joins ACC.... wins hardest tourney, competes with the blue bloods of basketball , has their best recruiting classes ever...... has a bad start and all of a sudden 88 proclaims it was a bad move because the last two players to make the NBA (not true) committed before ND made the jump. Now ND will become a doormat in the ACC.....

You have to try and turn this into such a negative..... I am surprised we haven't heard how it was BK's fault.

it's what you get when a poster goes out of their way to put a negative slant on something despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[nemeth#5]

I am still waiting to hear his qualifications to back up his claim that none of the current players can make the NBA....

I am also curious of his qualifications on being an AD, Head Football coach, special teams guru, recruiting analyst....and everything else he proclaims he knows more than the pros do.