If due process is denied to those persons who are allegedly here illegally, then how can you be sure that it will be granted to those who are here legally?
OT: How did we get here
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If due process is denied to those persons who are allegedly here illegally, then how can you be sure that it will be granted to those who are here legally?
“If due process is denied to those persons who are allegedly here illegally, then how can you be sure that it will be granted to those who are here legally?”
“Allegedly”? They either entered illegally or not. Am I missing something? You do think there’s a legal and illegal way to enter, correct?
“Allegedly”? They either entered illegally or not. Am I missing something? You do think there’s a legal and illegal way to enter, correct?
Here legally is something that would be pretty factually ascertainable for the ‘day in court’.
If you can’t provide that doc, you do not go further in the court system.
The persons who fear such procedures are the persons who are either here illegally or determined to destroy this country.
If you can’t provide that doc, you do not go further in the court system.
The persons who fear such procedures are the persons who are either here illegally or determined to destroy this country.
But you're telling me that people who aren't here legally shouldn't have their "day in court".
Suppose I'm a brown person walking down the street, and I'm either a citizen, or a legal resident. I get stopped by ICE, who accuses me of being here illegally and will deport me. If, as you suggest, people here not legally don't get due process, then how do I prove that I am entitled to due process?
Justified,
“ They are trying to destroy the country. “ No, I am not talking about illegal aliens, but about the Obama
DOJ, FBI, and most likely the CIA first putting the “Fix” in to clear Hillary of all charges. Then laying the ground work to stop Trump from getting elected. Then when that failed, “Alleging “ that Trump and his campaign “ “ Colluded “ with the Russians.” What ever that may mean ?
My understanding is that their is no such crime as “ Colluding “ ? If so , why is Obama not in jail because We actually have him on tape saying : “ Tell Vladimir that after the election, I’ll have more flexibility! “
So we now have “ MR. Mueller given unlimited power to “ Investigate “ a President of the United States
on the allegation that he “May have “ committed some crime, any crime, any time during his life time.
So far we have Manafore facing jail time for nothing to do with Russian Collusion. Cohen facing
Charges for whatever Mueller may be able to pin on him. Both having their homes and offices broken into
In the middle of the night and , in Manafore’s case taken away In handcuffs.
The Gestopo is alive and well and is under the control of Mr Mueller, who is a man appointed by the
DOJ ( please don’t even mention Jeff Sessions, he is a completely impotent fool ) to bring down our President by finding or creating a “ Crime “ any crime!
So I have to agree, in general, with NDE, the we must all be very fearful of “ Alleged “ crimes.
So far we have Stormy Daniels ! As if anyone is really interested !
“ They are trying to destroy the country. “ No, I am not talking about illegal aliens, but about the Obama
DOJ, FBI, and most likely the CIA first putting the “Fix” in to clear Hillary of all charges. Then laying the ground work to stop Trump from getting elected. Then when that failed, “Alleging “ that Trump and his campaign “ “ Colluded “ with the Russians.” What ever that may mean ?
My understanding is that their is no such crime as “ Colluding “ ? If so , why is Obama not in jail because We actually have him on tape saying : “ Tell Vladimir that after the election, I’ll have more flexibility! “
So we now have “ MR. Mueller given unlimited power to “ Investigate “ a President of the United States
on the allegation that he “May have “ committed some crime, any crime, any time during his life time.
So far we have Manafore facing jail time for nothing to do with Russian Collusion. Cohen facing
Charges for whatever Mueller may be able to pin on him. Both having their homes and offices broken into
In the middle of the night and , in Manafore’s case taken away In handcuffs.
The Gestopo is alive and well and is under the control of Mr Mueller, who is a man appointed by the
DOJ ( please don’t even mention Jeff Sessions, he is a completely impotent fool ) to bring down our President by finding or creating a “ Crime “ any crime!
So I have to agree, in general, with NDE, the we must all be very fearful of “ Alleged “ crimes.
So far we have Stormy Daniels ! As if anyone is really interested !
“Suppose I'm a brown person walking down the street, and I'm either a citizen, or a legal resident. I get stopped by ICE, who accuses me of being here illegally and will deport me. If, as you suggest, people here not legally don't get due process, then how do I prove that I am entitled to due process?”
How does anyone prove who they are? I’m really not sure the scenario you describe is happening at any significant rate. Not to be flippant, for those that have fallen victim to this, I strongly sympathize w/ them & I have read about some examples. But are you saying that ICE agents are randomly stopping and frisking any “brown person” they see and accusing them of being an illegal and threatening deportation w/o asking for ID? Let’s just say it is happening, which I doubt, why can’t they just show the ICE agent their ID? They run the name on the ID and there you have it, you’re either in the system as a citizen or legal resident or here legally (work or student visa), or you’re not. I’ll say this, if ICE is randomly corralling up “brown” people and accusing them of being illegals & threatening deportation, and it’s not an honest mistake (ie people that have had a criminal record in the past but have since been absolved but have fallen victim to clerical errors, mistaken identity, wrong or old address, etc...), that’s a big problem, but I doubt that’s what’s happening in terms of policy implementation. Fixing the system will be messy & there will be growing pains & roadblocks & f¥(kups along the way, but continuing down the path that has put us in this mess is insane. Something needs to be done & ignoring existing laws is no answer. That’s what has created this mess in the first place.
How does anyone prove who they are? I’m really not sure the scenario you describe is happening at any significant rate. Not to be flippant, for those that have fallen victim to this, I strongly sympathize w/ them & I have read about some examples. But are you saying that ICE agents are randomly stopping and frisking any “brown person” they see and accusing them of being an illegal and threatening deportation w/o asking for ID? Let’s just say it is happening, which I doubt, why can’t they just show the ICE agent their ID? They run the name on the ID and there you have it, you’re either in the system as a citizen or legal resident or here legally (work or student visa), or you’re not. I’ll say this, if ICE is randomly corralling up “brown” people and accusing them of being illegals & threatening deportation, and it’s not an honest mistake (ie people that have had a criminal record in the past but have since been absolved but have fallen victim to clerical errors, mistaken identity, wrong or old address, etc...), that’s a big problem, but I doubt that’s what’s happening in terms of policy implementation. Fixing the system will be messy & there will be growing pains & roadblocks & f¥(kups along the way, but continuing down the path that has put us in this mess is insane. Something needs to be done & ignoring existing laws is no answer. That’s what has created this mess in the first place.
My Lord the MSM must have had a field day with himRon Paul, libertarian hero, shares his fears:
Are you just playing ‘stupid’?
When you go to DMV, and they ask for ID, do you tell them “take my word for it”?
Ever heard of birth certificates? or green cards? forms of ID?
If you are walking down the street, you do not get stopped w/o reason. The reason may be bogus, but there must be a reason.
You may not need to have these things on your possession, but if summoned or arrested, youwould be given opportunity to produce valid ID.
It is Trump and his supporters who are looking to shut down civil discourse. Dismissing all parts of the free press that they don't care for as "fake news".
What the heck are you talking about. You lefties seem to think when trump calls out fake new he is shutting down the press. The press is supposed to validate info. They do not in today's cable news and internet instant gratification. So even if wrong they ask for forgiveness latter or ignore in.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/16-fake-news-stories-reporters-have-run-since-trump-won/
https://nypost.com/2017/06/27/cnn-staffers-didnt-resign-over-retracted-story-they-got-fired/
This is just some there are bunch more. Also use google and obtain harvard study on news media bias. major networks; CNN, MSNBC 90+% anti trump news or fake news. Fox 52% anti trump news. Basically fox is the most fair. We are not talking about opinion shows. CNN, Fox, and MSNBC has a number of those. So your opinion is wrong headed and plain stupid. Typical of the brainwashed lefties trained not to think
It is Trump and his supporters who are looking to shut down civil discourse. Dismissing all parts of the free press that they don't care for as "fake news".
What the heck are you talking about. You lefties seem to think when trump calls out fake new he is shutting down the press. The press is supposed to validate info. They do not in today's cable news and internet instant gratification. So even if wrong they ask for forgiveness latter or ignore in.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/16-fake-news-stories-reporters-have-run-since-trump-won/
https://nypost.com/2017/06/27/cnn-staffers-didnt-resign-over-retracted-story-they-got-fired/
This is just some there are bunch more. Also use google and obtain harvard study on news media bias. major networks; CNN, MSNBC 90+% anti trump news or fake news. Fox 52% anti trump news. Basically fox is the most fair. We are not talking about opinion shows. CNN, Fox, and MSNBC has a number of those. So your opinion is wrong headed and plain stupid. Typical of the brainwashed lefties trained not to think[/QUOTE]
Again, Fox is far from being the "most fair". Especially when it is 95% opinion shows.
Again, Fox is far from being the "most fair". Especially when it is 95% opinion shows.
wrong again
read this
http://www.businessinsider.com/msnbc-fox-news-bias-opinion-reporting-pew-research-2013-3
Again, Fox is far from being the "most fair". Especially when it is 95% opinion shows.
wrong again
read this
http://www.businessinsider.com/msnbc-fox-news-bias-opinion-reporting-pew-research-2013-3[/QUOTE]
A 2013 article vs the 2018 study I posted.
Suppose you don't have your ID with you? (I often don't if I'm out running.) Or suppose that the person who stops you believes your ID to be a fake?
Due process is there to protect those in that situation.
Due process is the way. ICE does not grab these people and say put on a boat to el salvador. There is due process. even though the media does not want you to believe that
For what it's worth, I don't think that 50% news that is "pro" a certain topic or person and 50% news that is "anti" a certain topic or person would necessarily reflect "fair".
Yes, due process is the way. Which is why it's afforded to both citizens and non-citizens.
I do not care about criticism but if you are going after a person in the news info at least verify the facts. far too often that is not the case
If you watch Russian news, they are more likely to view President Trump in a favorable light.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
TE="justified1, post: 2378221, member: 55178"]Are you just playing ‘stupid’?
When you go to DMV, and they ask for ID, do you tell them “take my word for it”?
Ever heard of birth certificates? or green cards? forms of ID?
If you are walking down the street, you do not get stopped w/o reason. The reason may be bogus, but there must be a reason.
You may not need to have these things on your possession, but if summoned or arrested, youwould be given opportunity to produce valid ID.[/QUOTE]
When you go to DMV, and they ask for ID, do you tell them “take my word for it”?
Ever heard of birth certificates? or green cards? forms of ID?
If you are walking down the street, you do not get stopped w/o reason. The reason may be bogus, but there must be a reason.
You may not need to have these things on your possession, but if summoned or arrested, youwould be given opportunity to produce valid ID.[/QUOTE]
Aren't we all lucky to have been born in the US. Can you imagine what it must be like if you were born in the Honduras or Haiti or Syria or Yemen? You can't provide for your family and you can't protect your family from gangs, terrorists, corrupt leaders, militias, drug cartels, etc. Can you imagine? Now if only there were some other countries that might provide you with asylum and the opportunity of a better life for you and your family. What would that be like? Of course, you could apply for asylum with the US but that is an incredibly difficult process (and becoming more difficult under Trump) and the process of trying to become a citizen is even more difficult and lengthier (not to mention expensive and, of course, you have no money because you are poor). Hmmm, what to do, what to do? Well you could stay in your home country and hope that your family is not murdered or, alternatively, you could flee your home and try and sneak into another country. That would be illegal and wrong. I know that none of us, if we were in those peoples' shoes, would ever consider breaking the law even if it was for a good cause, i.e., protecting your family. Can you imagine having to break the law just to protect your family? Yup, I sure am glad I was lucky enough to have been born in the US and that my ancestors came over before there were any restrictions on immigration.
Ice is not making “Jump” arrests. For instance Jackson Heights once a Jewish / Irish enclave now has about 42 languages spoken. We”ll leave the smells wafting along Roosevelt Blvd for another day. They are getting notified of someone not here legally. That’s not hard to do some areas.
“Yup, I sure am glad I was lucky enough to have been born in the US and that my ancestors came over before there were any restrictions on immigration.”
Would've been better had they missed the deadline.
Would trade a hard working immigrant that loves and embraces the US for you in a heartbeat.
Would've been better had they missed the deadline.
Would trade a hard working immigrant that loves and embraces the US for you in a heartbeat.
“Suppose you don't have your ID with you? (I often don't if I'm out running.) Or suppose that the person who stops you believes your ID to be a fake?”
So you’re saying that this is happening? There are “brown” people going for jogs w/o any ID and they’re being corralled by ICE?
To my understanding, this thread was more about illegals being caught at the border and not granting them due processs upon catching them. How it got into ICE agents lassoing up “brown” people that don’t have an ID on them or how ICE agents are accusing said people of having fake IDs, I don’t know, but that is a separate issue from people being caught at the border entering illegally.
So you’re saying that this is happening? There are “brown” people going for jogs w/o any ID and they’re being corralled by ICE?
To my understanding, this thread was more about illegals being caught at the border and not granting them due processs upon catching them. How it got into ICE agents lassoing up “brown” people that don’t have an ID on them or how ICE agents are accusing said people of having fake IDs, I don’t know, but that is a separate issue from people being caught at the border entering illegally.
I never said that that specifically was happening. I said that that was the reason we have due process available for people here legally and non-legally.
My recollection is that anyone caught at the border isn't given due process because they're not technically in the country--but I may be mistaken.
You are correct. They are given due process. It costs the taxpayers a ton. They are assigned attorneys and have to see administrative judges. BTW on a side note as the MSM crows about the children. In NY, a huge homicide spike in the suburbs of Nassau and particularly Suffolk County (Long Island) caused by the wave of unaccompanied minors from previous POTUS. They came into area with no family and were scooped up by the growing MS13 gang. Some really gruesome murders with machetes.
Great comeback because we all know that all foreigners/refugees are members of MS13 and/or ISIS, right?
