I didn't know that a cost was put onto constitutional protections as to whether it was worth it or not.
For what it's worth, I'm not more bothered by violence created by immigrants as opposed to violence created by citizens.
OT: How did we get here
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I didn't know that a cost was put onto constitutional protections as to whether it was worth it or not.
For what it's worth, I'm not more bothered by violence created by immigrants as opposed to violence created by citizens.
C'mon francade, be honest here. You wouldn't prefer a hard working immigrant because more likely than not he or she wouldn't be white and probably wouldn't be Christian. I'm one of you, brother. I'm a white guy who grew up in a middle class, Catholic family.
Aren't the people who cross our southern border overwhelmingly Christian, in general?
the question is illegal immigration. You want open borders I do not. And the typical response is because they are not white. That is moronic idiots response.
And yet you are unable to make a non-racist argument for your position. Why is that?
huh? this the problem with the left wing they are unreasonable you cannot have discussions. You have asshats like you making stupid uninformed claims. No wonder there is an encouraged divide from normal people that can have a discussion and morons like you
And those who have killed people who been in the country illegally that are not affiliated with gangs?
And still you cannot give a non-racist rationale for your position that immigration is bad. I know that calling people names is easy but it really doesn't support your position. I've always wondered about the term "asshat." Can you clarify that also?
How about the people who are in the country legally and are not affiliated with gangs. I'm talking, of course, about Stephen Paddock, Adam Lanza, Nikolas Cruz, Dimitrios Pagourtzis, Devin Kelley, etc. All good old American citizens! Gosh, if only it was illegal immigrants that were committing all of these heinous crimes.
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those are people who are American. Where else would they commit their crime?
Our justice system will take care of them
What a relief that our justice system will take care of them. I sure that the families of the victims will take great comfort in knowing that their loved ones were murdered by true Americans rather than immigrants.
The fact is that there are bad people out there. The rate of violent crime amongst immigrants is much lower than for existing citizens. If you are basing your argument against immigration on the potential for crime than you are looking at things the wrong way.
You do not know how to have a discussion. You accuse people of being racist. You base it on what? a discussion would be from your point of view I believe in open borders no matter what it means to our tax payers in costs to schools hospitals jobs wages and crime. sensible side we believe in a orderly vetted system of immigration where it helps our country. And then we go point by point. You do not that. That makes you a moron or an arse
I may well be a moron and/or an arse but that doesn't change the fact that you still can't make an argument about immigration that isn't racist related. You want to have a point-by-point debate, let's go. You choose the first factor and I'll give my rebuttal. I can do this all day.
I can do it all day also. That said, the racism charge is where I draw the line. As long as that is part of what you are about there is no point. You effectively shut it down. I do not have time for it or you. and you are a moron. you are the problem because you use the race card as a typical leftist and not one person other than leftist know why or understand the use of that charge. We view it as to shut down conversation or put people on the defensive. What part of any statements that anyone has made is racist?. As you said you do not know me
How can that be when they broke the law (crime) entering
Overburdening the education system?
Causing communities to share a burden and taking away funds from the legal citizens in the communities that are there to better the citizen instead is taken away from the citizen to better a law breakef?
Yeah that makes sense
What is this actually saying to the immigrant trying to do it the right way ?
I think if violence personally effected you. You would sing a different tune. A lot of x nyc residents moved to Long Island to better their lives and kids lives. For what??
I think if any event affects us, we have a subjective view of what caused that event. I prefer staying objective with respect to everything as much as I can.
What if you lost your job or had your wages suppressed due to illegal cheap labor immigration? Btw most folks are like you. As long as they can get cheap goods and products. Great who cares!
What if my next-door neighbor was an illegal immigrant?
We can play this game all day. As I said before, I'd prefer to evaluate issues based on an objective view.
If your wages have been suppressed due to low skill immigrant labor, you probably should get yourself some training.
Low skill illegal immigrants are gobbling up benefits that belongs to citizen.If your wages have been suppressed due to low skill immigrant labor, you probably should get yourself some training.
Funny how Americans have to educate themselves because illegal immigrants are talkng theirs jobs but nothing happens to them
Objective?
Interesting because most of these illegal immigrants are trying to get asylum in the USA, and that's not how this eorks.
Central American asylum seekers can seek asylum in the neighboring countries. That's how it works
Not to mention it seems like child abuse sending their child on their own to come to America.is that as crime?
What if I talk my granddaughter(13 yr old) into walking from Texas to Nebraska? Is that legal for her to do? You know the answer to that, but law don't count for illegal immigrants
Too simplistic DIP. Most illegal immigrants work under a "borrowed" SSN in order to make money for their families. They have all of the standard deductions taken out of their paycheck, including social security, Medicare, Federal and State taxes, and will never get the benefit of those deductions. They also buy groceries, pay rent, buy clothes and otherwise add to the economy. They don't "take away funds," they add to those funds.
Certainly there are some that take advantage of the system and some that are criminals, much like so many American citizens do.
But, hey, I get it. We got ours and they should just stay home and fight the drug cartels, warlords, etc. and fix their home rather than seeking a better life for their families here. I mean, if the roles were reversed, none of us would try to come to America to better our lives.
Of course you're right. The asylum seekers in Honduras should go to El Salvador because that is a much safer place for their family. I also agree about sending a child to America as being child abuse. All of the children flown out of Saigon after the war, why haven't their parents been prosecuted? Why doesn't the MSM report on that atrocity.
Well considering we are giving those countries hundreds of millions of dollars in aid then YES
BTW using someone else's SSN is identity theft and should go to jail then deported.
Come in the right way petiod!
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The children coming in from Saigon were fathered by Americans or work in Americas interest. Geez
Guatemala is not El Salvador
If I wanted to become a citizen of another country I would do it the right way.
But instead illegals cheat coming in
Cheatt to get benefits (for every illegal that gets benefits an American can't)
What exactly are uthey teaching their children to do?
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Americans benefit from lower food prices though too.
There is a middle ground between "open borders, let everyone in", and criminalizing ("they're MS-13!!!!") poor people who are here without a visa trying to make money for their families. We need a certain amount of immigration and we aren't going to be able to fill that amount with well educated upper middle class European families.
Immigration is an interesting phenomenon. People claim that America is a nation of immigrants. That is true and not true ! Excluding Native Americans, I guess one can argue that all other Americans, came from other lands and are ,therefore , immigrants
I prefer the premise, that The first Americans were the original settlers who were English Subjects and revolted against English rule , defeated the British and establishes what is now the USA. They also established our system of Constitutional laws.
Since we were a vast , just about, enexplored and uninhabited continent, new immigrants were certainly needed and welcomed.
Fast forward to the 1820,s the Chinese were a major wave of immigrants and were badly needed
Labor for the railroads.
Next was the Irish immigration and later waves of Italian, Poles, German, and Eastern Europeans.
As far as I know most of those came here legally ? I don’t exactly know just what the immigration laws
May have been during each of those periods, but I believe that the entry point for the European was through
Ellis Island ? I guess that some may have also come over our northern border, but most came in by sea.
In short, the past immigrants were LEGAL, as far as I know , they came without money and took whatever work that they could get ( very little if any type Government welfare benefits were available .
The over whelming majority obeyed our laws , and the minority that did not were arrested , punished,
And even deported.
The current ILLEGALS are committing a crime by breaking our laws.
One argument is that they are needed here because they do jobs that American citizens will not do ?
So did our Legal immigrant ancestors ! So will today’s legal immigrants ! So will “ Guest Workers !“
Build the Wall ! Control who and what enters our country , and , yes, admit legally immigrants
As we need them !
I prefer the premise, that The first Americans were the original settlers who were English Subjects and revolted against English rule , defeated the British and establishes what is now the USA. They also established our system of Constitutional laws.
Since we were a vast , just about, enexplored and uninhabited continent, new immigrants were certainly needed and welcomed.
Fast forward to the 1820,s the Chinese were a major wave of immigrants and were badly needed
Labor for the railroads.
Next was the Irish immigration and later waves of Italian, Poles, German, and Eastern Europeans.
As far as I know most of those came here legally ? I don’t exactly know just what the immigration laws
May have been during each of those periods, but I believe that the entry point for the European was through
Ellis Island ? I guess that some may have also come over our northern border, but most came in by sea.
In short, the past immigrants were LEGAL, as far as I know , they came without money and took whatever work that they could get ( very little if any type Government welfare benefits were available .
The over whelming majority obeyed our laws , and the minority that did not were arrested , punished,
And even deported.
The current ILLEGALS are committing a crime by breaking our laws.
One argument is that they are needed here because they do jobs that American citizens will not do ?
So did our Legal immigrant ancestors ! So will today’s legal immigrants ! So will “ Guest Workers !“
Build the Wall ! Control who and what enters our country , and , yes, admit legally immigrants
As we need them !
Then support immigration reform!!!!
You're right, I do not know you which is why I suggested that you educate me by giving me a non-racist reason for not helping people who are in desperate need of help. My assumption is that you cannot give me a non-racist reason (although there may certainly be some) because race is "a" factor, even if not the sole factor.
rgc, I understand and respect your position. The US had mostly open immigration in the late 18th century and early 19th century. John Adams and the Federalists imposed certain laws extending the time period for citizenship from 5 to 14 years but this was mostly a ploy to control the electorate. In the late 1800s, the Chinese Exclusion Act and the Alien Contractor Labor laws were enacted that restricted certain workers from immigrating. The Immigration Act of 1882 levied a head tax on immigrants and blocked the entry of "idiots, lunatics, convicts, and persons likely to become a public charge." My ancestors came over from Ireland in the 1850s so apparently avoided the Immigration Act. Lucky for me! It also banned virtually all asians, including people from India as they were deemed by Court ruling not to be white.
The Immigration Act of 1924 set quotas on the number of immigrants from certain countries. This law was apparently aimed at primarily Catholics, Muslims and Jews.
The US has a long history of limiting or even prohibiting non-white, non-protestant people from immigrating and most of those laws are clearly discriminatory. So when people assume that current bans on Muslim countries are racist, you can at least understand why they might think that.
There should be a serious discussion about immigration but I suspect that our politicians (as well as many of our fellow Board posters) are not up for that. It is much easier to demonize illegal immigrants and refer to them as animals infesting our country.
I am liberal and feel that we have a duty to help our fellow man. I try to do that in my personal life and support spending my tax dollars on that as opposed to using my tax dollars to send our troops throughout the world to kill people. I think that immigrants can be a boon for the economy. I also think that it will change the racial makeup of our country. We have always been a white-majority nation and many people feel uncomfortable with the thought of being in the minority. I don't feel uncomfortable with that concept.
So why not make our immigration laws simpler. Allow anyone to come to the US provided they (1) have no criminal background; and (2) can communicate in English. Provided they obey the law and become contributing members of our society, I would propose that they can earn citizenship within a certain number of years, i.e., 5, 7, etc. If they are convicted of a violent crime or one involving moral turpitude (i.e. identity theft, kiddie porn, etc.) within that time period, they forfeit any right to citizenship and will be deported instantly.
I don't expect everyone (or perhaps even anyone) to agree with this premise but it is at least a start.
