ND talent/recruit class ranking on usual Q4 decline
- Thread starter chaseball
- Start date
Okay, that's better. That was more focused. A nice, tight little diatribe. Your previous post was more on the disturbing/disjointed side.
But I don't think you got it. You were doing pretty good there, but you're just too defensive. And you fly off the handle just a little too quickly. YOU ARE SHITTING ON THE TEAM YOU ARE SUPPOSEDLY A FAN OF. And actually getting defiant in what you appear to consider your right to do that. And I don't think that's quite how all of this works. Maybe you've misunderstood what sports fandom is all about. It's not a gift certificate to bash the team or the program that you adopt, or in this case, the canard that ND's recruiting classes always fall apart right before NSD.....
I'm not shitting on the team. I'm shitting on the administration.
You can love your country and hate your president. Kinda the same thing.
Perhaps you don't understand what being a fan is.. By your logic, you don't think people who oppose their NFL teams Free Agent or draft decisions are true fans? You can be both critical and fanatical at the same time. Doesn't mean you're a troll.
It is important to remember that not all 4 star players are equal.
Once you account for the 25-30 five-star kids in any given class, there are four-star kids ranked from #31-#300
ND does really well with the kids inbetween 100-300 but it has been a slog to get those really premium top 100 high four-star talents. The competition is monopolizing the top 100 however, and that is the issue. ND *must* find a way to carve out a niche with those top 100 elite prospects.
At the very least, Freeman is making progress:
Marcus Freeman has been the toast of the town in South Bend since he was named head coach this past December. Even Notre Dame’s heartbreaking 37-35 loss to Oklahoma State in the Fiesta Bowl in Freeman’s first game in charge this past January did little to dampen the enthusiasm surrounding the program. Heading into the 2022 season, The Athletic identified Freeman as a headliner for its “College Sports 40 Under 40: Top young coaches, players, execs, influencers changing the game” list. “Cool is not usually an adjective associated with Notre Dame, one of the most storied programs in college football,” the website noted. “But the 36-year-old Freeman has challenged that in his first eight months in charge …” One of the reasons for that excitement and tangible proof of Freeman’s impact can be found on the recruiting trail. As of Sept. 2, the Fighting Irish ranked No. 4 and No. 2 nationally, respectively, in On3’s 2023 and 2024 Consensus Football Team Recruiting Rankings. Perhaps more importantly, the Irish have made strides landing blue-chip prospects (four- and five-star recruits) since his arrival in January 2021. It stands to reason that the higher a team’s percentage of four and five-star prospects relative to the overall roster, the better its chance to win a national championship. Freeman wasn’t around for the entirety of the class of 2022 recruiting cycle, but he hit the ground running and helped the Irish secure a 22-man class with a 77 percent blue-chip mark per the On3 Consensus, up from just 48 percent for the class of 2021. His current 23-man 2023 haul stands at 91 percent, and his six-man 2024 group is at 100 percent. In the 12 recruiting cycles from 2010-21 overseen by Brian Kelly, Notre Dame’s blue-chip mark fell in the range of 48 and 59 percent nine times and eclipsed 70 percent just twice (87 in 2013 and 71 in 2019). — Steve Downey
Marcus Freeman has been the toast of the town in South Bend since he was named head coach this past December. Even Notre Dame’s heartbreaking 37-35 loss to Oklahoma State in the Fiesta Bowl in Freeman’s first game in charge this past January did little to dampen the enthusiasm surrounding the program. Heading into the 2022 season, The Athletic identified Freeman as a headliner for its “College Sports 40 Under 40: Top young coaches, players, execs, influencers changing the game” list. “Cool is not usually an adjective associated with Notre Dame, one of the most storied programs in college football,” the website noted. “But the 36-year-old Freeman has challenged that in his first eight months in charge …” One of the reasons for that excitement and tangible proof of Freeman’s impact can be found on the recruiting trail. As of Sept. 2, the Fighting Irish ranked No. 4 and No. 2 nationally, respectively, in On3’s 2023 and 2024 Consensus Football Team Recruiting Rankings. Perhaps more importantly, the Irish have made strides landing blue-chip prospects (four- and five-star recruits) since his arrival in January 2021. It stands to reason that the higher a team’s percentage of four and five-star prospects relative to the overall roster, the better its chance to win a national championship. Freeman wasn’t around for the entirety of the class of 2022 recruiting cycle, but he hit the ground running and helped the Irish secure a 22-man class with a 77 percent blue-chip mark per the On3 Consensus, up from just 48 percent for the class of 2021. His current 23-man 2023 haul stands at 91 percent, and his six-man 2024 group is at 100 percent. In the 12 recruiting cycles from 2010-21 overseen by Brian Kelly, Notre Dame’s blue-chip mark fell in the range of 48 and 59 percent nine times and eclipsed 70 percent just twice (87 in 2013 and 71 in 2019). — Steve Downey
Look at what you started. Now you got a couple of creepers, in your wake, figuring out new ways to unleash their hostility on ND football. Not at the team, mind you, but with the administration. And you're their inspiration. And I gotta say too, the pickings are a lot slimmer this time, given that we have the #3 class in the country, and two top 250 RBs already committed. But they're not both five stars, are they, chaseball?
That's where you come in. To remind us of that.....
Notre Dame just put 10.5 million viewers on an opening game. Pretty easy to sell that exposure to someone in the hood.
Moreover Notre Dame athletes are making BANK on nil. Notre Dame simply isn't and won't use that as a lure to recruits. Just as they won't give money jobs etc to the support system for kids.
Not anymore...
With 4 stars and even lot of 5 stars...a big lucrative NFL contract is a pipe dream.
The score now is NIL...
As I said before...5 years and something is going to give.
It just cant keep on going in chaotic fashion
They have....you know...the 40 year decision...
So you have two choices....
Either recruit the best players which makes coaching easier or you get the very best coaches....
The one thing nobody seems to mention here is winning breed success on all fronts.
Kids are still suckers for winning.
If MF can start winning some of these "big moment" games it will help automatically by default.
If he still works hard at that point then he'll really have something but ND also has a massive identity problem.
It's a multi promg issue.
No huge wins...
No identity.
Think a min...
If a WR is looking at ND or Oklahoma over the last few years you know exactly what they're thinking.
Wow...that looks like fun. How many catches will I get playing in Norman.
Ohio state used to be a RB school.
What happened...
Haskins starting throwing a million touchdown passes and receivers want to join the fun.
ND isn't committing to either and thats a problem
Of course a real career in the NFL is a pipe dream for the vast majority of college FB players; even 5 stars.
You know that; I know that. But the kids don't know that or don't want to believe that.
Even a lot of 4 stars have been told in HS that they are great and are on their way to the NFL and they WANT to believe that.
You add this to the fact that all too many HS let their stars slide on their studies.
Then suddenly they are faced with Notre Dame where YOU WILL STUDY, you MUST take calculus, etc.
VS all those schools where studying, etc is all too much a wink and a nod. And are led to believe that there will be all sorts of 'help' in keeping them eligible.
Put that together with the clear standards for admission and you are never going to sniff a LOT of 5 stars.
Wow, you actually could "care less". You paid for a free board? You make menstrual jokes. Cool guy.
I commented either in this post or another that ND needs to win a big game and a NY6 or playoff game. I pointed to Clemson as an example. Look at their recruiting the 4 years prior to their first championship in 2016, ND had slightly BETTER classes, yet it was Clemson that was able to break through. After that they were able to get better classes. Winning and coaching/development are still very important.
Coaching and player development is so important today; as is recruiting. Its like a tripod; if one leg fails the whole thing falls.
Coaching: history is replete with new coaches coming in and taking a losing team to a championship; look at Ara; he took a losing team from one season to the next that came to withing minutes of a NC.
Development: even the vast majority of 5 stars need a lot of work to become a top CFB player.
Recruiting: you have to have the raw material to manufacture a championship team.
Absolutely and a lot of times the very two teams are playing that big game against each other.
We lose all of the top marquee matchups, major bowl and or playoff games and in many cases against a team we're competing against for a player(s)
His is the most decisive post: metrics, facts, and objective analysis.
You too are correct: ND won't lower its academic standards...but, this means the drought of not winning a NC since 1988 will continue but for some serious luck.
Even back in the day with the best talent, ND needed the luck of the Irish on occasion. Luck can't overcome current margins in talent.
Bring back Weis as the OC, ND would then have a schematic advantage!
You are not wrong. We do have some recent wr success in the NFL which helps but del was horrible
The academic restrictions is a crutch and is mostly false. If a kid wants in they can usually get in as long as they have the extra year of foreign language required. The actual issue is having to be a real student once at Notre Dame, living in the dorm etc.
I do wonder if Notre Dame could start an innovative sports as a business tract. It's a legitimate business career now and could help attract athletes.
Can you say more about the innovative sports as a business tract? First time I've heard of it.
This is not what I am told by ND alumni. More so by Stanford alumni, as I live and work in the Bay Area. The entrance standards are higher...and, yes, to your point, it's much harder being a student once in. That is a serious enough margin of difference.
I'm with you on some kind of remedial and constructive path to degree of utility. It's going to have to be easy, full stop.
I went to an all boy Catholic HS in NYC. We had 1, 2, 3 tier core curriculum levels, the 3rd being honors classes. A lot of my all tier 1 friends progressed by senior year into even some honors. Plus in the last 2 years, we had regular vs advanced optional classes: ecology vs physics, calculus vs a light discrete and combinatorial math.
That's the Catholic mission: accommodating all levels from all walks of life, with reasonable tuition. I'm not saying ND lower its tuition, but the social mission can be done with football in mind with a progressive degree program.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Because players in our aisle usually commit early.
I think we already do. I have met a few recent ND grads who majored in something that I didn't recognize. We have some version of 'culture studies' out there.
They had the QB, Watson. We need to find that. Maybe it’s Carr.
ND recruited it's fair share of 4 and even a couple of 5 star recruits. Somehow though, none of them seemed to have panned out. I believe a good portion of that had to do with the coaching staff, and it's one of the reasons i'm not sold on Rees as OC/QB coach.
Maybe you need to learn something about modern day college football.... Why are you against allowing kids like Tony Rice into the program? Will it diminish ND? Or will you be happy with ND being the next Duke or Vanderbilt in CFB.
I guess Tradition called off today. Please lecture me some more about your arrogant stance that ND shouldn’t allow “stupid” football players in. Maybe you forgot that ND’s “tradition” was built around being a football powerhouse. Not because of alumni like you….
Perfect. And we’ll continue down this path. No wonder Saban and Meyer avoided us like the plague. Can’t win with both hands tied behind your back with stuffy brass and alumni who think it’s still ‘88
How old are you? 25? Don’t presume to lecture me on ND. When you graduate from ND, then we can talk. Until then, sit down and shut up.
Your responses are comical and not at all what I’d expect from a ND grad. You said you were at ND when Tony Rice was there. We’re you one of those people that talked shit behind his back bc he wasn’t worthy of attending our blessed mother’s university? Or were you with the others celebrating another National Championship? I’m actually 16. Just learned how to drive and school folks like you…
Where did you go to college? School folks like me? You’re the idiot who thinks ND is going to lower its academic standards to humor you. The joke’s on you, pal.
LOL! OK big fella. Drink some Ensure, change your depends and yell at people for being on your lawn.
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