Again shifting arguments. WSU has a different structure to success then one that focuses on bringing in top tier talent. My only real issue with your position is the notion that being a catholic school is a clear recruiting advantage in todays college basketball environment. Georgetown is a catholic school that has as good or better history in basketball and is rated very close to ND as far as academics go. I am not sure why they wouldn't be able to claim the same advantage. This analysis is independent of the reality that religion being de-emphasized in society. I don't think its true anymore that just because a kid goes to a catholic high school or is catholic that one of the most important things to him is going to be making sure that his college supports good catholic values. You keep making declarative statements saying these are advantages, and when challenged it changes to these should be advantages. You don't like the duke example which is fair but should Stanford have a better basketball program? They profile favorably in make up to ND.
I say Elite 8 or we fire Mike Brey
- Thread starter hawkit3113
- Start date
When you have Catholic basketball leagues in the major cities, that is an untapped resources. Brey doesnt know how to use them. Doesnt mean they aren't there.
Georgetown is not ND from a branding standpoint and never will be. In fact, most people that arent Catholic, dont even know GU is Catholic. GU's ship has sailed in the mid 90s.
Every Catholic kid, and family knows the value of a ND education. Period. That is an advantage.
Lastly, look at high school basketball and football around the country. Catholic schools dominate. So much, that in IL, they had to bump them all up a class to make it fair for the public schools. That through our unique connection as Catholics, is an advantage. I see where we are not seeing eye to eye. I see an advantage not being used, you dont see the advantage because Brey doesnt know how to use it.
We are talking about two different types of branding, ND's branding as a catholic university is more prominent the Georgetown's, but Georgetown's branding as a basketball entity is above and beyond ND's. When you look at basketball brands Georgetown is still living off Old Man Thompson's success in a way the ND can't touch.
I still believe the problem with your argument is that is assumes (1) Elite talent from Catholic schools feel obligated or have a desire to continue playing at a catholic school and (2) Every catholic kid values an ND education over educations from schools like Duke, and Georgetown.
1) Digger's success isn't recognized on a cultural level Georgetown's is and part of that is because Differ never won a championship and didn't get to the big game.
Mourning, Mutombo, Ewing, and Iverson > Lambieer, Dantley, Ellis, and Carr.
Georgetown was one of the first major Nike schools and to pretend that ND's basketball brand in the last 25, hell go back 30 years, is on par is just not a real argument.
2) I don't believe Brey has anything to do with society becoming more secular. Furthermore, when you can get just as good of an education at other private schools or public schools that are seen as bigger basketball powerhouses how does ND's academic work as an advantage. A lot of the elite guys are in college 1-2 years, if this is the plan why are we supposed to assume that academics is a primary consideration in school choice? Finally, just because a family or a student recognizes that ND is a good academic school doesn't mean that catholic school kids want to go to college at a catholic school.
You started off by saying these are advantages, but everything your suggesting is that they could be advantages but Brey isn't taking advantage of them. Is the point of your argument that ND needs a better recruiter then Brey?
Mourning, Mutombo, Ewing, and Iverson > Lambieer, Dantley, Ellis, and Carr.
Georgetown was one of the first major Nike schools and to pretend that ND's basketball brand in the last 25, hell go back 30 years, is on par is just not a real argument.
2) I don't believe Brey has anything to do with society becoming more secular. Furthermore, when you can get just as good of an education at other private schools or public schools that are seen as bigger basketball powerhouses how does ND's academic work as an advantage. A lot of the elite guys are in college 1-2 years, if this is the plan why are we supposed to assume that academics is a primary consideration in school choice? Finally, just because a family or a student recognizes that ND is a good academic school doesn't mean that catholic school kids want to go to college at a catholic school.
You started off by saying these are advantages, but everything your suggesting is that they could be advantages but Brey isn't taking advantage of them. Is the point of your argument that ND needs a better recruiter then Brey?
If Brey beats Kentucky does he get a 5 year extension?
Does a National Championship get him a statue?
Does a National Championship get him a statue?
I would say yes, get the man a statue if he wins the title. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, but I dare say that would be the biggest accomplishment in the history of ND sports. Some would argue som,e of the football titles are better runs, but to end the season on an 11 game win streak including the ACC title and NCAA title would be very hard to top.
Can we fire Hawkit now?
Or suspend his posting privileges until he grovels and begs to be forgiven?
Or suspend his posting privileges until he grovels and begs to be forgiven?
Brey has lived up to expectations. And has us in a good position to surpass my expectations. I think he has also put his stamp on the program and made himself, our guy. Brey is the guy to lead ND basketball. He made a huge step forward for the program last night and has all but erased alot of the early tourney failures. I am proud of Mike. This is a damn good team and Mike is coaching better than he ever has.
Go Irish.
Go Irish.
Yeah, you might be right. I just think Irish basketball is, and should be amongst the best in the country. Brey took a huge step forward to getting us up there last night. I am so proud of him and the team.
You at least have a pair...man up and give credit where credit is due...there are actually posters on this site that believe a team can beat Duke 3 out of 4 times...beat UNC twice..get to the Elite 8 and it was all luck...
Mike Brey is the man. He is the right man to lead ND basketball, and he has won me over.
He had our boys ready to play. That is good coaching. WSU is a damn good team and that performance was amazing.
I'd have to say hawk I'm a little disappointed with you in this thread. Brey has established some terrific recruiting connections in the New York and New Jersey area thanks to playing in the Big East and its conference tournament at Madison Square Garden. Brey wasn't happy with leaving the conference at all but he'll continue to have those connections in the Northeast which will help Notre Dame basketball for years to come in the ACC.
And you've referenced Notre Dame with "we" on a number of occasions. You're an Iowa fan right?
We need to recruiting nationwide thougth Alley. Cali to NY. Canada to Texas. This is a great group he recruited though. It just doent seem like we are constantly recruiting the higher end talent.
I am a huge ND basketball fan. Have been for years. Moreso than football. And yes, I am also an Iowa fan.
