How did we lose QB recruit McNamara to Michigan ?

[FriedmanIP]

Friedman...making friends.

I try not to be friends with people who are limited to the level of responses that I've seen here.

Now if one of you, @hfhmilkman, @NDIRISH53, or @chaseball could ever put together a decent response........then we'd be talking!

 

[NDIRISH53]

I try not to be friends with people who are limited to the level of responses that I've seen here.

Now if one of you, @hfhmilkman, @NDIRISH53, or @chaseball could ever put together a decent response........then we'd be talking!

Coming from the guy who says Ezekial Elliot wasn’t a key to Ohio State winning a title

 

[FriedmanIP]

Coming from the guy who says Ezekial Elliot wasn’t a key to Ohio State winning a title

He wasn't that important.
RB is plug-and-play for Ohio State.

The QB, OL, and the Defense were/are far, far more important.

RB is one of the most de-valued positions in CFB and in the NFL....it's just not very important.

Thanks for reminding me of how pathetic your attempts to argue the other side of that were. lol

 

[hfhmilkman]

It's not trolling when you just post straight facts.

The fact that delusional homers think facts are trolling just shows what delusional homers they really are.




So are you going to respond the actual facts I posted??
Patterson has been anything but a "meat and potatoes" QB when he's faced decent competition...... and that was when had MUCH better talent around (offensively) than he will at Michigan.

In fact, if you look at his games against Top25 opponents, his passing stats are nearly the same as Wimbush's and he has NEGATIVE rushing production
(plus far, far more turnover)
And that's even counting the stats he piled up against Auburn's walk-ons after he "lead" his team to a 5 TD deficit....in 1 half.

He's never shown that he can be anything but TERRIBLE when he's facing a decent opponent.

He was a young QB on a terrible team that had a killer schedule. Patterson played better in a tougher situation than any of the other incumbents at UM, though I think Peters has a chance at being a good QB. I like the chances that Harbaugh will turn Patterson around. Its not me you should present your facts to as Steele, Scout, Athalon, and ESPN all think Patterson is pretty good. Don't troll me. Troll them.

 

[FriedmanIP]

He was a young QB on a terrible team that had a killer schedule. Patterson played better in a tougher situation than any of the other incumbents at UM, though I think Peters has a chance at being a good QB. I like the chances that Harbaugh will turn Patterson around. Its not me you should present your facts to as Steele, Scout, Athalon, and ESPN all think Patterson is pretty good. Don't troll me. Troll them.

Ah yes, back to the old "I think Patterson will be good against decent competition, despite not having a single piece of evidence to point to for him being anything but TERRIBLE against decent competition"

Facts aren't trolling buddy, they're just facts.

Though facts do tend to bother delusional homers who live in a fantasy world.

 

[Toby Smart]

He was a young QB on a terrible team that had a killer schedule. Patterson played better in a tougher situation than any of the other incumbents at UM, though I think Peters has a chance at being a good QB. I like the chances that Harbaugh will turn Patterson around. Its not me you should present your facts to as Steele, Scout, Athalon, and ESPN all think Patterson is pretty good. Don't troll me. Troll them.

And, can you find anything positive about this Irish team? You like Patterson's chances that he can turn things around, but, with little or no actual knowledge of Brandon, you are skeptical. Michigan fans are a piece of work.

 

[FriedmanIP]

And, can you find anything positive about this Irish team? You like Patterson's chances that he can turn things around, but, with little or no actual knowledge of Brandon, you are skeptical. Michigan fans are a piece of work.

Woah woah woah.

Patterson picked apart Tennessee-Martin, South Alabama, AND Auburn's walk-ons.... obviously he's poised for a breakout.

But Wimbush's performances against pipsqueaks like USC, Michigan State, and NC State (all Top25 teams), though were just the results of an "ideal situation" and "the shred and spread"

There is nothing delusion or homerish about these @hfhmilkman stances!!

 

[pikehead]

Friedman...making friends.

They are talking Heisman in Ann Arbor for Paytterson...As per Det News and Grand Rapids press...

 

[justified1]

What team is Peterson playing for?

 

[hfhmilkman]

And, can you find anything positive about this Irish team? You like Patterson's chances that he can turn things around, but, with little or no actual knowledge of Brandon, you are skeptical. Michigan fans are a piece of work.

I think ND has the chance to have a pretty good defense. What they need to discover are some game changers who can make plays. Someone who generates havoc. Regardless of what Wimbush does as a passer he has a reasonably high bar because he is an adept runner. He has the size such that the lack of a sure fire RB might not matter so much. The Oline will not be as good as last years monster but still very good. I also think ND has some very good TE's? Why you think I believe ND is garbage I do not know. I'm not FriedmanIP predicting 6-6. I personally think ND will go 10-2. I am just hoping one of those losses is to UM.

 

[NotreDomer1]

They are talking Heisman in Ann Arbor for Paytterson...As per Det News and Grand Rapids press...

Well.... If the Detroit Free Press and Grand Rapids press say so. Just mail him the trophy now. They’re the epitome of unbiased news outlets.

 

[echowaker]

Well.... If the Detroit Free Press and Grand Rapids press say so. Just mail him the trophy now. They’re the epitome of unbiased news outlets.

They are talking Heisman in Ann Arbor for Paytterson...As per Det News and Grand Rapids press...

who's paytterson ?

 

[justified1]

who's paytterson ?

an insider, premium member, related to peterson, and paytterson’s brother from another mother!

 

[Toby Smart]

I think ND has the chance to have a pretty good defense. What they need to discover are some game changers who can make plays. Someone who generates havoc. Regardless of what Wimbush does as a passer he has a reasonably high bar because he is an adept runner. He has the size such that the lack of a sure fire RB might not matter so much. The Oline will not be as good as last years monster but still very good. I also think ND has some very good TE's? Why you think I believe ND is garbage I do not know. I'm not FriedmanIP predicting 6-6. I personally think ND will go 10-2. I am just hoping one of those losses is to UM.

"Garbage" is your word, not mine. Reading your comments about Ian Book and Brandon, one could easily become suspicious of what your intent was in the first place. A subtle arrow here. Another there.

 

[hfhmilkman]

"Garbage" is your word, not mine. Reading your comments about Ian Book and Brandon, one could easily become suspicious of what your intent was in the first place. A subtle arrow here. Another there.

I still hold to my opinions on Book. I don't think he is very good and it will be proved out when he is not starting in 2019. My critique of Wimbush was on the specifics to his passing not to the totality of his actual effectiveness. He will be just fine against teams that do not have a dominant run defense. Heck the Panthers almost won a SB with a running QB with the worse mid range accuracy in the entire NFL.

The argument I have always made about Wimbush is that I thought it was foolish to expect for a significant improvement in accuracy. Using a basketball analogy if someone can't hit a FT, than the expectation is they will never be good at hitting a 3 pointer. If a scout sees a player with a good FT rate but poor 3pt rate they know there is the potential for them to be a good 3pt shooter if developed.

Patterson may not have beaten any good teams or played well against good teams, but he hit is FT's. When Wimbush went up against scrubs he missed his FT's. ND still won a of tough games because Wimbush is a spread & shred QB, ND had the 2 best linemen playing on one side of the ball, and generally had a much better team than Ole Miss.

I went and looked at about 100 QB's who started their third or fourth year. 45% had a ratings increase of less than 10 points, 45% had a decrease of less than 10 points, 7 percent a ratings increase of more than 15%, and 3% a decrease of more than 15%. So my argument about Wimbush is the expectation he is going to have a 60% completion percentage or a 10 ypa is just statistically unlikely. My numbers say about 7%.

In general what I found is the QB's who were pro prospects were more likely to be in that 7%. But even many of the QB's drafted did not have a significant ratings increase.

 

[zonairish]

He was a young QB on a terrible team that had a killer schedule. Patterson played better in a tougher situation than any of the other incumbents at UM, though I think Peters has a chance at being a good QB. I like the chances that Harbaugh will turn Patterson around. Its not me you should present your facts to as Steele, Scout, Athalon, and ESPN all think Patterson is pretty good. Don't troll me. Troll them.

We can all agree that Patterson has a lot of talent. He is without doubt an upgrade to michigan's program. However, right now he is unproven. He had an opportunity to prove himself on a highly talented Ole miss team. He did not yet. That does not mean he cannot. Nor should we as Irish fans think he is not capable. But having some friends that are michigan fans they have this idea that they will be NC because of Harbaugh and Patterson. Realistic information is never part of their belief structure. I think there are more questions on patterson than Wimbush. Also if something happens to Patterson they have nothing. His knee may effect his ability to move effectively. Where as if Wimbush goes down or does not perform we have Book. Also we have a unproven talent coming into the class that could be a star also but unproven

 

[echowaker]

We can all agree that Patterson has a lot of talent. He is without doubt an upgrade to michigan's program. However, right now he is unproven. He had an opportunity to prove himself on a highly talented Ole miss team. He did not yet. That does not mean he cannot. Nor should we as Irish fans think he is not capable. But having some friends that are michigan fans they have this idea that they will be NC because of Harbaugh and Patterson. Realistic information is never part of their belief structure. I think there are more questions on patterson than Wimbush. Also if something happens to Patterson they have nothing. His knee may effect his ability to move effectively. Where as if Wimbush goes down or does not perform we have Book. Also we have a unproven talent coming into the class that could be a star also but unproven

i would much rather have notre dames QB situation than michigans. not even close.

 

[Toby Smart]

What I see here is a lot of benefit of the doubt given to the Michigan QB and not much to the ND QBs. What do you even want from Ian Book? He's not the starter and most likely not the future. He is a very capable back up with plenty of playing time under his belt. Why is Ian Book even in your brain? There is plenty of upside with Brandon, whether you like it or not. I don't know a damn thing about this Patterson kid, so I will let his performance on the field do the talking instead of me making all these negative comments a month and a half before the season even starts. I suggest you do likewise with Brandon. I know what you are trying to do and subtle tones don't mask it.

 

[echowaker]

What I see here is a lot of benefit of the doubt given to the Michigan QB and not much to the ND QBs. What do you even want from Ian Book? He's not the starter and most likely not the future. He is a very capable back up with plenty of playing time under his belt. Why is Ian Book even in your brain? There is plenty of upside with Brandon, whether you like it or not. I don't know a damn thing about this Patterson kid, so I will let his performance on the field do the talking instead of me making all these negative comments a month and a half before the season even starts. I suggest you do likewise with Brandon. I know what you are trying to do and subtle tones don't mask it.

Book had four td passes in 75 attempts last year. by comparison michigan qbs had 9 td passes in 345 attempts. i can see why michigan fans are excited about patterson. if he's only godawful it will be a significant improvement.

 

[justified1]

One thing for certain, one group/side of this debate is going to be skewered following the game.
No mercy should be expected.

 

[hfhmilkman]

One thing for certain, one group/side of this debate is going to be skewered following the game.
No mercy should be expected.

It does not have to be. What if both teams and both starting QB's have great games and at the finish there is a winner. That is a problem with judging on the zero sum game of wins alone. Someone has to lose and just because they lose does not necessarily mean the individual or the team on the wrong side stinks. Yet we live in a world where this is the attitude. In my opinion football is the most popular American sport because it is the sport with the greatest variance.

 

[justified1]

you must be new here or have a short memory.

 

[hfhmilkman]

Book had four td passes in 75 attempts last year. by comparison michigan qbs had 9 td passes in 345 attempts. i can see why michigan fans are excited about patterson. if he's only godawful it will be a significant improvement.

I have been sort of been saying that for quite awhile. Harbaugh has shown he can run a varied offense and not require a great QB. I have been on record that if Patterson is as good in the Big10 at QB as you think Harbaugh is a coach that will be good enough for me.

 

[justified1]

1 QB will make the play that wins the game
1 QB will make a play that losses the game
If ND losses, the refs stole the game
If ND wins it is because Harbaugh sucks.

ND vs Michigan something always happens to someone.

 

[echowaker]

I have been sort of been saying that for quite awhile. Harbaugh has shown he can run a varied offense and not require a great QB. I have been on record that if Patterson is as good in the Big10 at QB as you think Harbaugh is a coach that will be good enough for me.

that would still only put you at 3rd or 4th in your division at best.

 

[justified1]

Ya know PSU is building a pretty fine squad. tOSU, Michigan and Wisky are not alone anymore.
Any of those 4 teams can beat any of the other on any given Sat.

 

[NotreDomer1]

I still hold to my opinions on Book.

Well, he sure outperformed Patterson when they played a common opponent (LSU). Until Patterson shows he can play higher level teams without looking terrible, I’ll hold my reservations about his “Heisman” talk. Potential isn’t always reached.

 

[francade]

“I still hold to my opinions on Book. I don't think he is very good and it will be proved out when he is not starting in 2019”


It sounds like you didn’t watch book play that much. Overall, he was accurate, threw the ball on time and made some good decisions on read options and is a good athlete. He had a couple bad picks, but that is to be expected from a redshirt frosh first time player. And whether or not he’s starting in 2019 proves nothing. If wimbush improves and/or jurkovec is as good as advertised, book may not get a chance. That doesn’t mean he “isn’t very good”, just means the starter was better. Book would’ve been an upgrade to the position at Michigan the last couple years, which isn’t saying much I know, but he’s more than serviceable, IMO.

 

[hfhmilkman]

that would still only put you at 3rd or 4th in your division at best.

The odds are they will lose to OSU. However I think they will handle PSU and MSU. PSU because Barkley and more important Moorehead is gone and MSU because you cant depend on the punter dropping the football and handing it to the other team or being saddleed with the worst QB in the country.

I don't think the MSU game will be competitive. Lewarke made a living bailing out of the pocket. Now it's on film. Think of this. MSU had a worse Oline then UM last year. They just had the good fortune that every team they played either was hit by a QB injury or a monsoon.

I may be a UM homer but my two penciled in losses are to ND and OSU.

 

[justified1]

Why in hell would a Michigan fan pencil in UM vs ND as a UM loss? Geez,

 

[hfhmilkman]

Why in hell would a Michigan fan pencil in UM vs ND as a UM loss? Geez,

I root for Michigan. But I play the stats. I believe UM is capable of beating ND. ND has some vulnerabilities that I think UM can exploit. But that all said this is an away night game against a top15 opponent. UM has not beaten a team of this caliber since 2006 against ND.

 

[NotreDomer1]

I root for Michigan. But I play the stats. I believe UM is capable of beating ND. ND has some vulnerabilities that I think UM can exploit. But that all said this is an away night game against a top15 opponent. UM has not beaten a team of this caliber since 2006 against ND.

Ughhh. Don’t remind me about that game.