Hartman to enter the portal

[mirer03]

I read on CBS that Hartman’s ability to be patient and go through progressions is absolutely elite.

With that being said I don’t “believe everything I read online”. I come here for the real scoops and validations.

It's true... In wakes very specific long mesh rpo system. This is why you hear people say system QB about Hartman. His system is VERY SPECIFIC and the reads aren't the same as he will need to make at ND. When you have a 5 second mesh point to get players down field and see where the defense goes before pulling the ball, vs a three to five step drop and anticipate where the defense will be going and throwing to a spot. Do not be fooled, it's a big transition.

If you haven't seen wakes offense it's pretty unique...and can be maddening. High risk reward but very different

 

[Telx1]

Great post. Got me fired up. I’d pay you for this stuff Telx!

IrishMike….my two cents is about what my posts are worth, but I do appreciate the sentiment. I think Nasty’s post below regarding Hartman’s pocket presence and ability to read defenses is exactly on point. He has two weaknesses from my perspective. First, he throws too many interceptions, and he does not have a cannon for an arm. With our OL and receivers, I expect (hope) his interceptions will reduce dramatically. The lack of a cannon arm is not as important as seeing the field and finding the weakness in the defense and pulling the trigger with accuracy at the right time; and Hartman seems to have these abilities and characteristics. A QB room of Hartman and Buchner and Minchey and Angeli gets me pumped as well!

 

[Get Nasty]

IrishMike….my two cents is about what my posts are worth, but I do appreciate the sentiment. I think Nasty’s post below regarding Hartman’s pocket presence and ability to read defenses is exactly on point. He has two weaknesses from my perspective. First, he throws too many interceptions, and he does not have a cannon for an arm. With our OL and receivers, I expect (hope) his interceptions will reduce dramatically. The lack of a cannon arm is not as important as seeing the field and finding the weakness in the defense and pulling the trigger with accuracy at the right time; and Hartman seems to have these abilities and characteristics. A QB room of Hartman and Buchner and Minchey and Angeli gets me pumped as well!

My hope is an oline that protects hartman will make throws very consistently. If we can't protect hartman and our oline is bad, then we have no shot anyways.

 

[Patrirish]

That's fine, but if expectations are Hartman has a big arm, people will be disappointed.

Accuracy is the most important metric, having a strong arm is an additional asset.

Very, very, very few pass plays requiring a 60 yard throw are ever called.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

This is no where near the case. Minchey and Hartman are very different.

Both QBs. Both read offenses. Both lead the same players. Both wear same teams jerseys. Both have same OC. They play side by side under the same drills taking directions from sane coach. They eat together, travel together, watch film together. One is a 5th year senior that is the all time leader in the ACC. One is a 18 year old true freshman that’s never played a down of college ball. But nah, you’re right. Hartman will be in no way shape or form a mentor to Minchey. Lucky for us, Minchey is a smart kid and will soak up Hartman like a sponge whether you think he will or not.

 

[Telx1]

My hope is an oline that protects hartman will make throws very consistently. If we can't protect hartman and our oline is bad, then we have no shot anyways.

Yes, it takes everyone doing their job, the receivers, the backs and the OL. I hope Harry settles on his OL by the end of Spring practice. Great OL play, in addition to talent, requires communication, coordination, and knowledge of the tendencies of the guys you play next to. Thought we had too many screw ups between Zeke and Lugg on passing downs last season. At a minimum, We need Schrauth to be as good as advertised, and then Kristofic and Rocco can battle for the other guard spot. I am still hopeful that Baker or Carmody or Wagner make the compelling case to start, affording the move of Fischer next to Alt.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

You're not a QB whisperer. You always clamour for the next guy. The fact is minchey isn't close to where Buchner is today, especially with regards to the offense.

You're assuming that Tommy Rees, whose next developed QB will be his first, is going to 1. Teach Hartman his system and how to read defenses. 2. Continue to develop and give snaps to Buchner who will be at worst QB2 this year AND 3. Get Minchey ready to play.

All in one year.

Good luck with that pie in the sky.

Minchey will start in 2024.

 

[NDDadx3]

There she is….^

Yet SEC is 0-2 and ACC is 2-0 in bowl games. UF smoked by Oregon State and WF beats Mizzou.

Last decade? Let’s take a look at the final rankings, and just the top 10.

2012 - Clemson and FSU (and ND) in top ten. Big10 has 2, Pac10 has one in top ten; Big12 has zero
2013 - FSU wins NC; Clemson top ten. Big10, Pac12, Big12 all with one team in top 10
2014 - FSU and GT in top 10; SEC, Big10, PAC12, Big12 also with 2 teams on top 10
2015 - Clemson finishes 2nd; SEC with 2, Big10 with 3, Big12 with 2; PAC12 with one team in final top ten. ND at #11
2016 - Clemson wins NC, FSU finishes #8. SEC with only one team in final top ten as well as Big12. Pac12 with 2, Big10 with 4
2017 - bama wins and SEC with 3 in top 10. Big10 with 3. Clemson 4th (with ND and Miami at 11,12). 2 big12, no Pac12.
2018 - Clemson wins again. ND undefeated regular season; one BiG10 and one Pac12 team in top ten. 4 SEC teams
2019 - Clemson finishes 2nd, ND 12th. One big12 and one Pac12 team as big10 and SEC have several teams each
2020 - Clemson and ND top 5. Two each from SEC, Big10, Big12…..no Pac12
2021 - ND 8th. 2 SEC, 3 Big10, 3 big12, no PAC 12

So how do you make the statement that the ACC has been the worst of P5? You really believe the crap you spew?

^^^ facts

In addition, ACC has had some really strong QB play across the conference over the past several years

 

[mirer03]

Both QBs. Both read offenses. Both lead the same players. Both wear same teams jerseys. Both have same OC. They play side by side under the same drills taking directions from sane coach. They eat together, travel together, watch film together. One is a 5th year senior that is the all time leader in the ACC. One is a 18 year old true freshman that’s never played a down of college ball. But nah, you’re right. Hartman will be in no way shape or form a mentor to Minchey. Lucky for us, Minchey is a smart kid and will soak up Hartman like a sponge whether you think he will or not.

You've never played football lol.

So does every other QB in the room. Hartman might lead the room, but it's very unlikely he's mentoring minchey specifically. VERY UNLIKELY.

 

[mirer03]

Minchey will start in 2024.

You gonna leave the board of wrong?

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

You've never played football lol.

So does every other QB in the room. Hartman might lead the room, but it's very unlikely he's mentoring minchey specifically. VERY UNLIKELY.

To think that Minchey won’t learn a lot from Hartman makes you about as dumb as they come.

 

[mirer03]

To think that Minchey won’t learn a lot from Hartman makes you about as dumb as they come.

Sure he's gonna learn. By watching. You are so far down the minchey train it's laughable. I like the kid, but he will be fourth string starting next year. He's not going to get that many reps with ones or twos. He's going to have to learn the offense and the Rees philosophy. You love to talk bout how fragile Buchner is yet you ignore the minchey missed most of his senior season due to an injury to his THROWING SHOULDER. What you hope is that minchey learns fast and by the end of the year he's supplanted Angeli going into the following year.

That spring you have an open competition... Realizing that Minchey likely has NEVER taken a snap in a meaningful game, he's going to have to blow the coaches away to get a starting nod...moreover it's much more likely that the second string this year... Likely Buchner is going to learn a lot more from Hartman practicing with the ones and twos than an incoming freshmen that is likely running the scout team most weeks.

Seriously you ALWAYS want the next guy to play, it's laughable. When it was coan you wanted Buchner, when it's Buchner you want Pyne, now you want a kid that isn't even on campus. You have zero patience in development.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Sure he's gonna learn. By watching. You are so far down the minchey train it's laughable. I like the kid, but he will be fourth string starting next year. He's not going to get that many reps with ones or twos. He's going to have to learn the offense and the Rees philosophy. You love to talk bout how fragile Buchner is yet you ignore the minchey missed most of his senior season due to an injury to his THROWING SHOULDER. What you hope is that minchey learns fast and by the end of the year he's supplanted Angeli going into the following year.

That spring you have an open competition... Realizing that Minchey likely has NEVER taken a snap in a meaningful game, he's going to have to blow the coaches away to get a starting nod...moreover it's much more likely that the second string this year... Likely Buchner is going to learn a lot more from Hartman practicing with the ones and twos than an incoming freshmen that is likely running the scout team most weeks.

Seriously you ALWAYS want the next guy to play, it's laughable. When it was coan you wanted Buchner, when it's Buchner you want Pyne, now you want a kid that isn't even on campus. You have zero patience in development.

That was a really long paragraph just to tell me that I’m right.

 

[Golson5]

Sure he's gonna learn. By watching. You are so far down the minchey train it's laughable. I like the kid, but he will be fourth string starting next year. He's not going to get that many reps with ones or twos. He's going to have to learn the offense and the Rees philosophy. You love to talk bout how fragile Buchner is yet you ignore the minchey missed most of his senior season due to an injury to his THROWING SHOULDER. What you hope is that minchey learns fast and by the end of the year he's supplanted Angeli going into the following year.

That spring you have an open competition... Realizing that Minchey likely has NEVER taken a snap in a meaningful game, he's going to have to blow the coaches away to get a starting nod...moreover it's much more likely that the second string this year... Likely Buchner is going to learn a lot more from Hartman practicing with the ones and twos than an incoming freshmen that is likely running the scout team most weeks.

Seriously you ALWAYS want the next guy to play, it's laughable. When it was coan you wanted Buchner, when it's Buchner you want Pyne, now you want a kid that isn't even on campus. You have zero patience in development.

Im hoping Minchey impresses and gets 3rd team reps. He should be able to junp Angeli

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Im hoping Minchey impresses and gets 3rd team reps. He should be able to junp Angeli

Agree. I think he will inevitably progress to #1 by mid 2024 though even if Buchner stays and starts. I might be wrong, but I’m high on Minchey. I haven’t sensed that in a QB at ND in a long time. I think he’s going to be one for the ages. I want CJ badly and I think he’s going to be good, but I think he’s going to watch a first rounder in Minchey while he waits his turn or leaves.

 

[TDIrish27]

I'm that way about Angeli and nothing I've seen of Buchner impresses me.

 

[mirer03]

That was a really long paragraph just to tell me that I’m right.

Lol. Jesus, you are delusional.

Again your predicting a freshmen coming off a throwing shoulder injury will develop enough in one year as the #4 QB to take the starting job in year two. Oh and btw it will happen on the watch of an OC that has yet to develop any quarterback in his time on the job.

Ad you take that as validation. Lol. Good luck man.

I see your already prepping the Carr love for when this pie in the sky doesn't happen.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Lol. Jesus, you are delusional.

Again your predicting a freshmen coming off a throwing shoulder injury will develop enough in one year as the #4 QB to take the starting job in year two. Oh and btw it will happen on the watch of an OC that has yet to develop any quarterback in his time on the job.

Ad you take that as validation. Lol. Good luck man.

I see your already prepping the Carr love for when this pie in the sky doesn't happen.

You’re.

 

[Golson5]

Lol. Jesus, you are delusional.

Again your predicting a freshmen coming off a throwing shoulder injury will develop enough in one year as the #4 QB to take the starting job in year two. Oh and btw it will happen on the watch of an OC that has yet to develop any quarterback in his time on the job.

Ad you take that as validation. Lol. Good luck man.

I see your already prepping the Carr love for when this pie in the sky doesn't happen.

Minchey does have a chance to start in 24. He'll pass Angeli. Hartman will be gone. He'll have a chance

 

[mirer03]

Minchey does have a chance to start in 24. He'll pass Angeli. Hartman will be gone. He'll have a chance

I agree it will be a spring battle. However, again... My previous points stand.

 

[mirer03]

You’re.

Lol. You're that guy. That's all you got left. Ha.

 

[ndhuntington]

Do you guys think Angeli would leave if Minchey beats him out which I believe he will. Let's say 2023 Hartman wins job does Buchner stay or go if he leaves then we have Minchey, and Carr which is still great but we need depth.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Sure he's gonna learn. By watching. You are so far down the minchey train it's laughable. I like the kid, but he will be fourth string starting next year. He's not going to get that many reps with ones or twos. He's going to have to learn the offense and the Rees philosophy. You love to talk bout how fragile Buchner is yet you ignore the minchey missed most of his senior season due to an injury to his THROWING SHOULDER. What you hope is that minchey learns fast and by the end of the year he's supplanted Angeli going into the following year.

That spring you have an open competition... Realizing that Minchey likely has NEVER taken a snap in a meaningful game, he's going to have to blow the coaches away to get a starting nod...moreover it's much more likely that the second string this year... Likely Buchner is going to learn a lot more from Hartman practicing with the ones and twos than an incoming freshmen that is likely running the scout team most weeks.

Seriously you ALWAYS want the next guy to play, it's laughable. When it was coan you wanted Buchner, when it's Buchner you want Pyne, now you want a kid that isn't even on campus. You have zero patience in development.

Good to have Mirer back

 

[bizzybecknd]

Minchey does have a chance to start in 24. He'll pass Angeli. Hartman will be gone. He'll have a chance

Quit stating this garbage like it’s fact, Angelli will have 3 years under his belt and both were 4 stars - SA actually had much better offers than Minchey. Why the propensity to disregard guys on the roster in favor of the next big thing? It’s rarely how it works, especially at ND.

 

[Get Nasty]

Quit stating this garbage like it’s fact, Angelli will have 3 years under his belt and both were 4 stars - SA actually had much better offers than Minchey. Why the propensity to disregard guys on the roster in favor of the next big thing? It’s rarely how it works, especially at ND.

He was a low 3 star with early offers but as he got older schools realized he essentially wasn’t good and backed off…. Similar situation as pyne where rees screwed up twice and allowed nd to take his commitment instead of going after allar who wanted nd.

 

[bizzybecknd]

He was a low 3 star with early offers but as he got older schools realized he essentially wasn’t good and backed off…. Similar situation as pyne where rees screwed up twice and allowed nd to take his commitment instead of going after allar who wanted nd.

I love these gurus who claim every offer was non committable. What’s your definition of low 3 star? Composite was 0.8962, a 90 gives him 4 stars. More diarrhea of the mouth. Oh and he’s a whole inch taller. Also curious of why schools never thought Minchey was good based on that offer list? Hell at least to your expertise, Angelli was good at one point.

 

[notredamerises23]

Do you guys think Angeli would leave if Minchey beats him out which I believe he will. Let's say 2023 Hartman wins job does Buchner stay or go if he leaves then we have Minchey, and Carr which is still great but we need depth.

I think he hits the portal if Minchey beats him out. Well he’s a good student and I’m sure he loves the academic environment of Notre Dame, he’s also someone who played in the spotlight in high school and I’m sure once a shot to show what I can do and someone will give it to him.

 

[Get Nasty]

I love these gurus who claim every offer was non committable. What’s your definition of low 3 star? Composite was 0.8962, a 90 gives him 4 stars. More diarrhea of the mouth. Oh and he’s a whole inch taller. Also curious of why schools never thought Minchey was good based on that offer list? Hell at least to your expertise, Angelli was good at one point.

5.6 on rivals…. I never said their offers were not committable , it’s just pretty clear he wasn’t pursued by others heavily

 

[mirer03]

Do you guys think Angeli would leave if Minchey beats him out which I believe he will. Let's say 2023 Hartman wins job does Buchner stay or go if he leaves then we have Minchey, and Carr which is still great but we need depth.

He will likely stay until his degree. His path was always of a long term backup with upside.

The plan will be Hartman/Buchner 2023, Buchner/minchey 2024/2025, minchey/Carr 2026/2027.

Things can change based on practice/injuries but that is the way the room is stacking up. Rees isn't starting A freshmen and I find it unlikely he starts a sophomore unless he has to

 

[Golson5]

Quit stating this garbage like it’s fact, Angelli will have 3 years under his belt and both were 4 stars - SA actually had much better offers than Minchey. Why the propensity to disregard guys on the roster in favor of the next big thing? It’s rarely how it works, especially at ND.

Because Minchey is a better prospect. Hopefully Angeli proves me wrong and becomes a stud

 

[Patrirish]

Quit stating this garbage like it’s fact, Angelli will have 3 years under his belt and both were 4 stars - SA actually had much better offers than Minchey. Why the propensity to disregard guys on the roster in favor of the next big thing? It’s rarely how it works, especially at ND.

👍👍👍

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Hartman sitting back waiting to see what Buchner does in the bowl game first? I was hoping with all the noise he’d have decided by now.

 

[IrishMike409]

He will likely stay until his degree. His path was always of a long term backup with upside.

The plan will be Hartman/Buchner 2023, Buchner/minchey 2024/2025, minchey/Carr 2026/2027.

Things can change based on practice/injuries but that is the way the room is stacking up. Rees isn't starting A freshmen and I find it unlikely he starts a sophomore unless he has to

You don’t think Carr can earn the job by his 2nd season?

Isn’t he that talented?

 

[Get Nasty]

Hartman sitting back waiting to see what Buchner does in the bowl game first? I was hoping with all the noise he’d have decided by now.

Unless buchner changes his throwing motion back to what it was his Soph year in HS, one QB has a chance to make a pass in the NFL, one doesn't.

 

[mirer03]

You don’t think Carr can earn the job by his 2nd season?

Isn’t he that talented?

I think in a perfect world you don't want him to. In a perfect world Buchner, minchey, and Carr all develop and get 1 or 2 years starting. That would be the sign of a very healthy QB room.

 

[mirer03]

Unless buchner changes his throwing motion back to what it was his Soph year in HS, one QB has a chance to make a pass in the NFL, one doesn't

Philip Rivers seemed just fine with a similar motion...

 

[stu4don]

I could see Buchner starting at Stanford next fall if Hartman does come to ND. Their QB room is very thin and Tyler was named ND's starter last fall over a 4*, top ten recruit in Pyne who was also a year older. I do hope Tyler sticks at ND. He'd be a great backup who would be our starter in '24.

I'm with you TELX. and Mirer thanks for the slowmesh analysis. What I do think Hartman has learned in that system is patience and a fearlessness in a tiny pocket. How he does at ND will be a big test for Tommy Rees! But if it all works out, he could be a Heisman contender.

 

[mbd11]

Quit stating this garbage like it’s fact, Angelli will have 3 years under his belt and both were 4 stars - SA actually had much better offers than Minchey. Why the propensity to disregard guys on the roster in favor of the next big thing? It’s rarely how it works, especially at ND.

Angeli played well in the B/G game - and he was only an EE freshman at the time. He looked like he can compete for the job someday.

 

[mirer03]

Angeli played well in the B/G game - and he was only an EE freshman at the time. He looked like he can compete for the job someday.

Gracefully disagree. Again. If Angeli becomes a long term starter either he has surges way beyond expectations or something catastrophic has happened.

 

[mirer03]

Yes, it takes everyone doing their job, the receivers, the backs and the OL. I hope Harry settles on his OL by the end of Spring practice. Great OL play, in addition to talent, requires communication, coordination, and knowledge of the tendencies of the guys you play next to. Thought we had too many screw ups between Zeke and Lugg on passing downs last season. At a minimum, We need Schrauth to be as good as advertised, and then Kristofic and Rocco can battle for the other guard spot. I am still hopeful that Baker or Carmody or Wagner make the compelling case to start, affording the move of Fischer next to Alt.

Let's revisit the line after the transfers out are announced.