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Hartman to enter the portal

Notre Dame du Lac said:
Not disagreeing but I watched one of the old NFL deep pass competitions the other day. Had a lot of the old school elite names competing. Average deep ball was like low 50’s. Not that distance is necessarily arm strength but it was eye opening. I’ll take accuracy all day at the college level.

Interesting side note. For passes over 20 yards this season, Hartman was #2 in the nation.
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The nature of the offense is under ten yard passes I'm pretty sure that stat includes yac.... Wake takes numerous deep shots. The long mesh freezes safeties which gives wake lots of one on one intermediate shot...it's basically a long rpo with a deep ball shot. It's very high risk reward. He struggles with real deep balls but is very capable from 15-30 yards (sound familiar).

The bad thing is ...it's also not a progression. He's literally reading the safety and then pulling and throwing. That is why there is concern with him going to a pro style offense where he has to make multiple reads while navigating the pocket.
 
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BleedingBlueNGold said:
ACC really has only been a 1 trick pony (Clemson) with the exception of FSU earlier in the decade. But when FSU was winning a national title, Clemson was not competing on an elite level.
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Huh?

He stated last decade. I showed top ten from 2012 until 2021. Show us how he could make the statement that ACC was below Big12 and Pac12 most those years?

And FSU was dominant the first half of that decade. You could same about SEC until UGA last year, same about BIg10 until Mich last year
 
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If TB balls in the bowl game then let them compete. Otherwise I think Hartman will be a really good starter next season and could put up monster numbers consider he’ll be playing a lot of the same teams with much better guys around him. He plays for a year then in 24 we have Minchey and Carr competing with Angeli and TB in the mix if they’re still on campus.
 
BGI User 756 said:
There she is….^

Yet SEC is 0-2 and ACC is 2-0 in bowl games. UF smoked by Oregon State and WF beats Mizzou.

Last decade? Let’s take a look at the final rankings, and just the top 10.

2012 - Clemson and FSU (and ND) in top ten. Big10 has 2, Pac10 has one in top ten; Big12 has zero
2013 - FSU wins NC; Clemson top ten. Big10, Pac12, Big12 all with one team in top 10
2014 - FSU and GT in top 10; SEC, Big10, PAC12, Big12 also with 2 teams on top 10
2015 - Clemson finishes 2nd; SEC with 2, Big10 with 3, Big12 with 2; PAC12 with one team in final top ten. ND at #11
2016 - Clemson wins NC, FSU finishes #8. SEC with only one team in final top ten as well as Big12. Pac12 with 2, Big10 with 4
2017 - bama wins and SEC with 3 in top 10. Big10 with 3. Clemson 4th (with ND and Miami at 11,12). 2 big12, no Pac12.
2018 - Clemson wins again. ND undefeated regular season; one BiG10 and one Pac12 team in top ten. 4 SEC teams
2019 - Clemson finishes 2nd, ND 12th. One big12 and one Pac12 team as big10 and SEC have several teams each
2020 - Clemson and ND top 5. Two each from SEC, Big10, Big12…..no Pac12
2021 - ND 8th. 2 SEC, 3 Big10, 3 big12, no PAC 12

So how do you make the statement that the ACC has been the worst of P5? You really believe the crap you spew?
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chuckyball is certainly STUPID enough to believe his drivel
 
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Notre Dame du Lac said:
Chances of beating Ohio State go up considerably. Having Hartman to mentor Minchey is invaluable. Buchner likely gone though.
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I am old fashioned and believe that TB would not leave before getting his degree. He could redshirt this year (i.e. 2022), get his degree early and would have a couple of years more to play. He would not leave in 2023.
 
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BodiTheGreat said:
If we land Sam Hartman we will have a great chance at making the playoffs next year. With our great Oline and running backs and a much deeper Receiver room Sam should put up HUGE numbers.
I think all ND fans should be very excited about Sam. Plus all the experience and leadership he brings. Tommy Rees will be able to really showcase his playcalling abilities.
Go Irish !
Beat USC !
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Have a great chance with Hartman or Buchner. Hartman has to learn how to read defenses and go through multilevel progressions. If he can do that he gives us Ian book upside only hes not scared to throw down the middle. We can win with that. The downside of Hartman is he can get into his head... He had a three game streak where he threw 7 picks this year. When he gets down his body language is bad and he has a habit of gunning wake out. I don't think Rees will stand for that mentality.
 
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echowaker said:
12-0 ? C'mon thats highly unlikely. After the entire season and conference championship games this year only two teams have gone unscathed out of 130 I believe. It's rare.
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Highly unlikely? Name one team we cannot beat in 2023. I’m listening.
 
mirer03 said:
Your misunderstanding is that Angeli is very aware of the talent at ND. He was aware when he signed on, and has known he is likely a long-term backup. He values the ND degree and can graduate having never played meaningful football and transfer and start for two years somewhere else. That has always been angelis projection. Sure he will compete and if he surges then great for all parties but he is not on the level of Buchner, minchey, Carr etc. And has known since he committed.

I've said this on the forum for a year. If Angeli is ever starting long term for ND...something catastrophic has occurred.
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all I’m saying is it’s rare to have 4 quality guys on a roster. Someone likely leaves if not 2. I’m good with Buchner, Minchey, Carr for 2024. The issue to me is when ND looks to the portal again for 2024. At some point you have to play someone else. Maybe not. Maybe portal is sustainable. Idk. I think Buchner is done. Minchey is a better QB. Carr extremely talented. With a year and a half under his belt, I don’t see TB beating Minchey. Minchey will be a stud by 2024.
 
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echowaker said:
If it happens that's fine. The move just doesn't move the needle for me. I just hope he doesn't get handed the job. Buchner was the starter before the injury. Let them compete.
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No reason not to have competition. But to think Hartman doesn’t at least set the bar much higher than 2022 nd qb play would be a mistake. If Buchner can beat out Hartman they would be awesome, and you would have a seasoned vet there capable of carrying teams to victory
 
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The most talented QB on the roster will be Minchey. The staff knows this. He’s just too raw. Hartman is coming in to mentor him. Minchey is a bigger Hartman with a stronger arm. Then there’s CJ, also a notch up in ceiling from Hartman. We are trending in the right direction. TB12 would be 4th string if Minchey, Carr, and Hartman were all juniors.
 
Notre Dame du Lac said:
all I’m saying is it’s rare to have 4 quality guys on a roster. Someone likely leaves if not 2. I’m good with Buchner, Minchey, Carr for 2024. The issue to me is when ND looks to the portal again for 2024. At some point you have to play someone else. Maybe not. Maybe portal is sustainable. Idk. I think Buchner is done. Minchey is a better QB. Carr extremely talented. With a year and a half under his belt, I don’t see TB beating Minchey. Minchey will be a stud by 2024.
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I don’t understand the writing off of Buchner. The lack of snaps over the last 3 years is absolutely concerning but was really high on him and hoping he was the one to get the bulk of the snaps in what I thought was a 7-5/8-4 season. He needed those reps. I don’t think he will transfer and don’t think Minchey is better but agreed it will be an uphill battle after the season ending injury to ever start again at ND
 
bizzybecknd said:
I don’t understand the writing off of Buchner. The lack of snaps over the last 3 years is absolutely concerning but was really high on him and hoping he was the one to get the bulk of the snaps in what I thought was a 7-5/8-4 season. He needed those reps. I don’t think he will transfer and don’t think Minchey is better but agreed it will be an uphill battle after the season ending injury to ever start again at ND
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His passing got effed up. He was terribly inaccurate at the elite 11. People like to say that doesn’t matter but it’s usually a pretty good barometer. He hasn’t wowed anyone yet and there’s a reason the staff is bringing in a guaranteed starter. To me that says you’re done TB. Also his HS competition was bad. He’s a run first QB with a glass body. Minchey is a deadly accurate and consistently so QB. Minchey is a true QB.
 
Telx1 said:
If Hartman comes on board, I think our QB floor just got a whole lot higher, and hope the same for our QB ceiling. Too early to declare our receivers positions of strength, but both Colzie and Thomas were vastly improved by season’s end, and Merriweather showed flashes of a huge upside. Add the talent of the incoming class, and we might actually have an explosive passing game next season to compliment a very good running game. We’ll miss Mayer for sure, in both the running and passing game. Assuming he stays, Rees will Have enough weapons and OL to showcase a balanced explosive mega point producing offense. Hopefully no more stacked defenses in the box, and No more excuses.
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Great post. Got me fired up. I’d pay you for this stuff Telx!
 
Notre Dame du Lac said:
His passing got effed up. He was terribly inaccurate at the elite 11. People like to say that doesn’t matter but it’s usually a pretty good barometer. He hasn’t wowed anyone yet and there’s a reason the staff is bringing in a guaranteed starter. To me that says you’re done TB. Also his HS competition was bad. He’s a run first QB with a glass body. Minchey is a deadly accurate and consistently so QB. Minchey is a true QB.
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Reality is we’ve seen TB throw 85 passes (equivalent of 3 games) but any chance you have to upgrade your roster, especially at QB you do it - which they did with Hartman
 
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THUNDERSTRUCK111 said:
Just a hypothetical. …… let’s say he comes to ND or a big time program. He lights it up and either wins or is runner up in the heisman trophy race. I would think he would be at least a second round pic. Thoughts ?
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The next Joe Burrow, in other words. I'll take it. :)
 
BGI User 756 said:
So how do you make the statement that the ACC has been the worst of P5?
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We old hippies used to have a saying: "if it itches, scratch it." I think chaseball has some sort of itch and is scratching it.
BGI User 756 said:
You really believe the crap you spew?
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I think he really wants to, because it would make something else true that he really really wants to be true. Not sure what that is, and maybe he doesn't even know any more. But I don't think he really believes it.
 
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bizzybecknd said:
Reality is we’ve seen TB throw 85 passes (equivalent of 3 games) but any chance you have to upgrade your roster, especially at QB you do it - which they did with Hartman
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If he was elite we wouldn’t bother with Hartman. The staff doesn’t need to see him in game to know if he’s a needle mover or not. If Buchner was a Heisman talent Hartman wouldn’t bother.
 
Notre Dame du Lac said:
Not disagreeing but I watched one of the old NFL deep pass competitions the other day. Had a lot of the old school elite names competing. Average deep ball was like low 50’s. Not that distance is necessarily arm strength but it was eye opening. I’ll take accuracy all day at the college level.

Interesting side note. For passes over 20 yards this season, Hartman was #2 in the nation.
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Hartman’s numbers for passes over 20 yards is very encouraging. I really don’t think his ceiling is all that high, but with everything he’s going to have available here, I cannot see him having anything other than a very, very good year.

By the way, what year was it that you were watching the long ball competitions? I saw a few on social media from the early 1990s I think and every throw was 60+ yards.
 
Notre Dame du Lac said:
His passing got effed up. He was terribly inaccurate at the elite 11. People like to say that doesn’t matter but it’s usually a pretty good barometer. He hasn’t wowed anyone yet and there’s a reason the staff is bringing in a guaranteed starter. To me that says you’re done TB. Also his HS competition was bad. He’s a run first QB with a glass body. Minchey is a deadly accurate and consistently so QB. Minchey is a true QB.
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You're not a QB whisperer. You always clamour for the next guy. The fact is minchey isn't close to where Buchner is today, especially with regards to the offense.

You're assuming that Tommy Rees, whose next developed QB will be his first, is going to 1. Teach Hartman his system and how to read defenses. 2. Continue to develop and give snaps to Buchner who will be at worst QB2 this year AND 3. Get Minchey ready to play.

All in one year.

Good luck with that pie in the sky.
 
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notredamerises23 said:
Hartman’s numbers for passes over 20 yards is very encouraging. I really don’t think his ceiling is all that high, but with everything he’s going to have available here, I cannot see him having anything other than a very, very good year.

By the way, what year was it that you were watching the long ball competitions? I saw a few on social media from the early 1990s I think and every throw was 60+ yards.
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This is deceiving. He is very good intermediate... 15-30 yards. His actual deep balls are similar to Ian book. He can make the throw, but needs the time and the full wins up and to set his feet just right. Otherwise his deep ball loses momentum and dies mid flight. He has a ton of underthrows at Wake.

If he learns to read the field and to go through progressions he could be very good. Ian Book with the ability and willingness to make tough throws over the middle.
 
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Notre Dame du Lac said:
The most talented QB on the roster will be Minchey. The staff knows this. He’s just too raw. Hartman is coming in to mentor him. Minchey is a bigger Hartman with a stronger arm. Then there’s CJ, also a notch up in ceiling from Hartman. We are trending in the right direction. TB12 would be 4th string if Minchey, Carr, and Hartman were all juniors.
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This is no where near the case. Minchey and Hartman are very different.
 
mirer03 said:
This is deceiving. He is very good intermediate... 15-30 yards. His actual deep balls are similar to Ian book. He can make the throw, but needs the time and the full wins up and to set his feet just right. Otherwise his deep ball loses momentum and dies mid flight. He has a ton of underthrows at Wake.

If he learns to read the field and to go through progressions he could be very good. Ian Book with the ability and willingness to make tough throws over the middle.
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Joe Montana used to say the ability to throw it 60 yards is overrated. He didn't have a big arm either. He was calm as can be.
 
mirer03 said:
You're not a QB whisperer. You always clamour for the next guy. The fact is minchey isn't close to where Buchner is today, especially with regards to the offense.

You're assuming that Tommy Rees, whose next developed QB will be his first, is going to 1. Teach Hartman his system and how to read defenses. 2. Continue to develop and give snaps to Buchner who will be at worst QB2 this year AND 3. Get Minchey ready to play.

All in one year.

Good luck with that pie in the sky.
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Luckily Tommy won't have to teach hartman how to read defenses. He's already been taught and developed that pretty well.

Learning tommy's offense at qb isn't as difficult as it looks. it's the offense executing all the window dressing properly so a simple play can seem complex. It's knowing where to get lined up, where and when to shift, etc etc. That's not too much on the QB.
 
mirer03 said:
This is deceiving. He is very good intermediate... 15-30 yards. His actual deep balls are similar to Ian book. He can make the throw, but needs the time and the full wins up and to set his feet just right. Otherwise his deep ball loses momentum and dies mid flight. He has a ton of underthrows at Wake.

If he learns to read the field and to go through progressions he could be very good. Ian Book with the ability and willingness to make tough throws over the middle.
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I read on CBS that Hartman’s ability to be patient and go through progressions is absolutely elite.

With that being said I don’t “believe everything I read online”. I come here for the real scoops and validations.
 
IrishMike409 said:
I read on CBS that Hartman’s ability to be patient and go through progressions is absolutely elite.

With that being said I don’t “believe everything I read online”. I come here for the real scoops and validations.
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I think his arm is similar to coan, but he has much better pocket presence and a little mere athleticism. If you remember kelly had to switch the offense with coan due to poor oline play and having to go to quicker passes. Hartman excels at making quick passes, and hitting people in stride. I like how he tends to find 1-1 matchups really well. he does force it at times but how much of that is due to always being in shoot outs, i don' tknow.

My expectation is he reads defenses pre and post snap better than we've seen in a long time without fear to throw over the middle accurately. If the oline gives him time I think he can make all the throws, but yes I agree he's not slinging it backfoot 50 yards if our oline struggles to protect.
 
wawasee said:
Joe Montana used to say the ability to throw it 60 yards is overrated. He didn't have a big arm either. He was calm as can be.
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That's fine, but if expectations are Hartman has a big arm, people will be disappointed.
 
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