Hartman just committed…

[bizzybecknd]

Remove Buchner and that's a good room.

He's not an accurate passer.
Do you think suddenly the throwing fairies will swoop down and sprinkle dust on Buchner's arm?
TB has great quickness. Extremely quick feet but his arm is lacking. Not strong. Not accurate

You remember a guy called Deshone Kizer? Was wildly inaccurate and improved to be a 2nd round pick. TB has played 2 full games in 3 years, just like any sport (golf, basketball) it takes time to ramp back up and the range/empty gym isn’t the same thing as under the lights.

Do you really think he can’t complete some of the <10 yard easy throws he missed against USC? Or realistically is that a result of gaining game confidence, settling down, and getting his feet back under him? Be real, he was a Elite 11 QB and had offers from everywhere.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

You remember a guy called Deshone Kizer? Was wildly inaccurate and improved to be a 2nd round pick. TB has played 2 full games in 3 years, just like any sport (golf, basketball) it takes time to ramp back up and the range/empty gym isn’t the same thing as under the lights.

Do you really think he can’t complete some of the <10 yard easy throws he missed against USC? Or realistically is that a result of gaining game confidence, settling down, and getting his feet back under him? Be real, he was a Elite 11 QB and had offers from everywhere.

Kizer improved in a hurry. Buchner took dead last at the Elite 11, was terribly inaccurate at that competition, was criticized about his motion and how he needed to clean it up and work on his motion. He hasn't seemed to improve his accuracy or consistency one bit since that time. Could he? Sure. Is it likely at this point? You tell me.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Another interesting stat

 

[88ND]

You remember a guy called Deshone Kizer? Was wildly inaccurate and improved to be a 2nd round pick. TB has played 2 full games in 3 years, just like any sport (golf, basketball) it takes time to ramp back up and the range/empty gym isn’t the same thing as under the lights.

Do you really think he can’t complete some of the <10 yard easy throws he missed against USC? Or realistically is that a result of gaining game confidence, settling down, and getting his feet back under him? Be real, he was a Elite 11 QB and had offers from everywhere.

Pyne had offers in kindergarten, no?
That's not saying much.

Kizer had a REAL QB frame thank you very much. A legit 6'3 ish guy and very durable.

On the accuracy part...

No I don't think Buchner can be more accurate... I KNOW he can't be more accurate.

See what you're talking about is being more efficient which Kizer and any QB with experience and shared time spent with receivers can get.

Buchner is inaccurate. Throws that are 3 yards off the mark are NOT fixable.

You can polish some things but you can't MAKE someone accurate. You can make someone accurate throw more precise but you won't take an inaccurate passer and have them threading the needle just from nice footwork, release angle and or experience.

Again...
If you think it's that simple just from experience and time...
I give you Brandon Wimbush.
16 or 17 games started...how many hours of practice and scrimmages? How many 7v7 skeleton drills.
Yet somehow he just couldn't throw the ball accurately.

 

[88ND]

Another interesting stat

View embedded media

And there you go...

E
X
A
C
T
L
Y

What I've been saying for year!!

The three yard curl and sit route has been our staple.

Seriously this commitment is getting more exciting by the hour

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

And there you go...

E
X
A
C
T
L
Y

What I've been saying for year!!

The three yard curl and sit route has been our staple.

Seriously this commitment is getting more exciting by the hour

He's going to grow on people really quickly.

 

[NDinNJ]

Freeman and Rees are dead set on creating competition and pushing slugs out the door. Both of which need to happen to win a title or at least get back to respectability and not lose to the likes of Marshall. I disagree that there will be a real competition. I think there will be a puppet competition, but I just can't imagine some promises weren't made behind closed doors to the all time ACC leader that you're the guy just don't **** it up.

100% agree

 

[banmate6]

This is positive news. I am hopeful that Sam Hartman will make a major impact in a position sorely needing an upgrade. And that Buchner continues to develop and challenges as much as possible.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Pyne had offers in kindergarten, no?
That's not saying much.

Kizer had a REAL QB frame thank you very much. A legit 6'3 ish guy and very durable.

On the accuracy part...

No I don't think Buchner can be more accurate... I KNOW he can't be more accurate.

See what you're talking about is being more efficient which Kizer and any QB with experience and shared time spent with receivers can get.

Buchner is inaccurate. Throws that are 3 yards off the mark are NOT fixable.

You can polish some things but you can't MAKE someone accurate. You can make someone accurate throw more precise but you won't take an inaccurate passer and have them threading the needle just from nice footwork, release angle and or experience.

Again...
If you think it's that simple just from experience and time...
I give you Brandon Wimbush.
16 or 17 games started...how many hours of practice and scrimmages? How many 7v7 skeleton drills.
Yet somehow he just couldn't throw the ball accurately.

TB has played 2 complete games in 3 years (Oh St and USC) both those games were after 3+ month layoffs of limited practice due to injury. I’m not ready to call the guy inaccurate, in fact none of his 3 picks against USC were due to accuracy issues. Simply think you’re writing him off too soon, what he did against USC was pretty remarkable for a second complete game in 3 years.

I’m sure you can’t sniff breaking 80 on the course as is but can you imagine breaking 80 (or 90 in your case) after 2 rounds in 3 years? Yea the driver might be inaccurate, might miss a few 3 footers (aka 8 yard passes). I have a lot of hope for TB and hope he sticks around.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Pyne had offers in kindergarten, no?
That's not saying much.

Kizer had a REAL QB frame thank you very much. A legit 6'3 ish guy and very durable.

On the accuracy part...

No I don't think Buchner can be more accurate... I KNOW he can't be more accurate.

See what you're talking about is being more efficient which Kizer and any QB with experience and shared time spent with receivers can get.

Buchner is inaccurate. Throws that are 3 yards off the mark are NOT fixable.

You can polish some things but you can't MAKE someone accurate. You can make someone accurate throw more precise but you won't take an inaccurate passer and have them threading the needle just from nice footwork, release angle and or experience.

Again...
If you think it's that simple just from experience and time...
I give you Brandon Wimbush.
16 or 17 games started...how many hours of practice and scrimmages? How many 7v7 skeleton drills.
Yet somehow he just couldn't throw the ball accurately.

No. Kizer was throwing balls in the dirt on a 8 yard curls, it was well known, go back and watch the spring game. Hence why he had a bunch of 5’11 guys starting over him (not sure what prototypical size has to do with accuracy discussion).

 

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

I watched Hartman some in the ‘21 season but I don’t recall catching him on tv this season.

I can’t recall he is on broken plays, can he run at all. I think it’s a huge if he is mobile in the current offensive climate in CFB.

 

[88ND]

No. Kizer was throwing balls in the dirt on a 8 yard curls, it was well known, go back and watch the spring game. Hence why he had a bunch of 5’11 guys starting over him (not sure what prototypical size has to do with accuracy discussion).

YOU are the one that brought him up being drafted after starting off so ridiculously inaccurate as you claim.
#1 he has prototypical NFL QB size. He was getting drafted.
#2 WTH is wrong with you? Go back and watch the spring game?
Good lord... yeah let's look at those spring games. Shit sheriff Angeli should've been the starter and Powlus Trey his immediate backup if that spring game means so much.

Kizer was an accurate thrower who got more efficient.

Buchner is not an accurate passer.

You want him ? Good. You can have him.
I'd prefer my QB have a bit more accuracy because if we want to play with the big dogs we absolutely need some needles threaded. It's a fine line between big play and incomplete or a 4 yard gain or pick six

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

TB has played 2 complete games in 3 years (Oh St and USC) both those games were after 3+ month layoffs of limited practice due to injury. I’m not ready to call the guy inaccurate, in fact none of his 3 picks against USC were due to accuracy issues. Simply think you’re writing him off too soon, what he did against USC was pretty remarkable for a second complete game in 3 years.

I’m sure you can’t sniff breaking 80 on the course as is but can you imagine breaking 80 (or 90 in your case) after 2 rounds in 3 years? Yea the driver might be inaccurate, might miss a few 3 footers (aka 8 yard passes). I have a lot of hope for TB and hope he sticks around.

Buchners most consistent stat is getting injured.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Very interesting. This is worth listening to.

 

[jerbach]

Think you nailed it, doubt TB transfers and will likely have a Tebow package built in.

TB needs meaningful plays and not just packages like he had before. He was the MVP of the bowl game. He should not simply be given garbage time either. Something like a 65-35 split between Hartman and Buchner would be fine by me.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Hartman vs Book. Obviously ND had the better team. Not even close in terms of team strenght. Made all the difference.



With Hartman coming in, this could be the start of a new era of Notre Dame quarterbacking. Hartman is nearly guaranteed to have a successful season. If Minchey is developed, he is going to be outstanding. His touch and ball placement is as good as anyone in the 2023 class. Then you have Carr and his ranking and tape speaks for itself. Minchey does a lot of really elite things with the ball in his hands. He is going to watch and soak up Sam Hartman like a sponge and be better because of it. Future should be very bright.

 

[shooter1977]

Remember that 2018 game - it seemed like a decade ago. Some of the guys on that team are now seasoned NFL vets - Tranquil, Love, Tillery.

Incredible that Hartman has been around that long. ND is basically getting a pro QB next season as far as decision making and leadership. Huge upgrade from this season.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Very interesting. This is worth listening to.

View embedded media

There's an interesting story in there where the journalist is complaining about how Sam handled the media after the Clemson loss. Says he is mildly to seriously concerned about Sam and how he handles losses. LOL. I think not handling a loss well is exactly what ND needs. Apparently Hartman was pitching near a perfect game just lighting up Clemsons and then in the 4th quarter the coaches took the ball out of his hands and didn't let him pass and they lost. Hartman was a dick to the media and cut people off in the post game. So the press got butt hurt. I would say that is actually a good thing for ND.

He also talks about how Hartman makes a lot of NFL throws, but he has been essentially undervalued due to his height. He is far better than he gets credit for due to being 6'0 tall, which is a bit dumb. The only real criticism to his game remains his turnovers, which he said ND needs to work with him on and remind him that he's at ND and he doesn't have to do it all anymore.

He then said near the end of the interview, that one of the main benefits of Hartman coming to ND is that Sam has "mentored the hell out of the younger quarterbacks". The younger guys will benefit incredibly from having him around, not just the fact that he can push ND for a title run.

 

[JMURPHY163]

No...

Buchner is inaccurate.

You don't make someone inaccurate and get them threading the needle.

You CAN polish someone who's accurate to make them even more precise...yes...

But you can't make someone accurate who is not.

Josh Allen says hello

 

[88ND]

Think you nailed it, doubt TB transfers and will likely have a Tebow package built in.

But why?
He's a sheep in sheep clothing.

Tebow was a wolf in sheep clothing.
He was a fullback who could play a little QB.

Buchner is nothing like that whatsoever.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

But why?
He's a sheep in sheep clothing.

Tebow was a wolf in sheep clothing.
He was a fullback who could play a little QB.

Buchner is nothing like that whatsoever.

Buchner seems like a nice kid. I really hope he succeeds. But 2023 is Hartman time. If Buchner somehow overcomes adversity, improves tremendously in the next 9-12 months, and beats out Sam Hartman at some point during the season, we likely have a Heisman contender on our hands. I wish him the best of luck in doing that and would be ecstatic to see it. I'm not wasting a second holding my breath for that. I personally think Buchner's ceiling is a 15-30 range QB. He could be good, not elite, imo. To me, I'd rather have Hartman win a few more games in 2023 than Buchner would have won and simultaneously develop the higher upside talent in Minchey and Carr along with Buchner and then let the best man win every single year thereafter.

 

[88ND]

Josh Allen says hello

He does?

All 6"5 240plus# of him too?

Is that who is saying hello?

Got it


P.s
When you going to learn that if you're on the snallish side you need to do sonething incredibly anazing. Like possess insane mobility. Buchner is quick...he's not rewriting the book on mobility. Be extremely accurate. Threading needles 30 yards down field in heavy traffic. Lastly...possess a huge arm.

Now....does Buchner have those three traits?
Does he have any of them?
Just one...?

 

[burmafrd1943]

TB needs meaningful plays and not just packages like he had before. He was the MVP of the bowl game. He should not simply be given garbage time either. Something like a 65-35 split between Hartman and Buchner would be fine by me.

Mr Pick 6 turnover King needs NO playing time

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Let Hartman mentor the youngsters. Also, hire a freaking QB coach.

 

[burmafrd1943]

TB needs meaningful plays and not just packages like he had before. He was the MVP of the bowl game. He should not simply be given garbage time either. Something like a 65-35 split between Hartman and Buchner would be fine by me.

That was a case of having no one else to pick for game MVP
THAT was a time when there should have been NO MVP at all
Anyone throwing two pick 6's should never be a MVP of anything
As regards the first- idiot throw
second was even dumber

 

[burmafrd1943]

Let Hartman mentor the youngsters. Also, hire a freaking QB coach.

There are a NUMBER of good QB coaches out there

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

65-35 split would be insane. No way should he get that much time if the goal is to win every game on the schedule. I do 100% agree that Rees needs to get the next guy up on the filed more, but 35% is absurd.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Where's Buchner?

 

[savvyandsassier]

TB needs meaningful plays and not just packages like he had before. He was the MVP of the bowl game. He should not simply be given garbage time either. Something like a 65-35 split between Hartman and Buchner would be fine by me.

Yeah, I don't think that's how it's going to play out. It's the Sam Hartman show now, baby.....

Seriously, they brought him in so we can win now, and we want them double digit victories. Not so we could split playing time all nice like that. Unfortunately if TB is getting major playing time it's because the SH experiment didn't work out, and things aren't going so well. Hopefully both coaches learned from Jack Coan's year just to leave him alone and let him play, and not to keep fiddling with the QB position....

 

[burmafrd1943]

65-35 split would be insane. No way should he get that much time if the goal is to win every game on the schedule. I do 100% agree that Rees needs to get the next guy up on the filed more, but 35% is absurd.

TB has shown NOTHING but athletic ability. Which frankly is not that important compared to knowing how to actually play QB without turning it over 2-3 times a game.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

IB puts out some good stats on Hartman here in the first 10 minutes or so. Sam is about as good as it gets in the country at throwing the deep ball. Also talks about why the staff wanted Sam Hartman and not someone else, and they apparently had a lot of options.

If this doesn't convince you to get jacked up about Hartman, nothing will.

 

[jerbach]

The get rid of TB crowd is forming.

 

[Get Nasty]

The get rid of TB crowd is forming.

I do NOT want to get rid of him, i want to him to develop and at minimum have some packages. Also, you need a really good backup

 

[NCDomer1]

Okay, first and far most after ready through evert post . BK was trying to avoid turnovers at all cost resulting in safe passes either to the check down or to the side line relying on the defense to stop other teams, which, works when you are dealing with an inferior opponent.
SH will not be hand cuffed on throwing the ball down the field or across the middle.
TB did better than I thought he would after a long layoff and lack of playing time. The first pic 6 was off of a tip pass which could happen to anyone. The next pic 6 was because of bad play calling. USC had nothing left in the tank and ND has a 230 lb back beyond a total no brainer. TCU with the second best QB in the country ran the ball three times in the same scenario than kicked a field goal. It is way to early to judge TB who has a lot of talent. He was making throws I have not seen out of any ND QB in a long time. Maybe, part of the plan is to have SH be a tutor to TB and the rest of the QB’s who better than the most accomplished QB in the history of the ACC to learn from. Instant QB coach. I imagine TB will get a series or two during the games. You can see flash’s of brillance

 

[mbd11]

Great news for 2023! Hartman should give us a chance to compete for the playoff. And hopefully Buchner will stick around, too.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

 

[jerbach]

I do NOT want to get rid of him, i want to him to develop and at minimum have some packages. Also, you need a really good backup

At this point, I don't think TB needs packages but can play with the entire offense play book. To clarify, I am extremely happy that Hartman is coming to ND. I have always liked his play and he is coming from an intelligent school with a record of good quarterbacks (remember Wolford?). My throw it at the wall 65-35 split was based on the reps that the 1 and 2 quarterbacks get in practice. The first three games should give the opportunity to acclimate Hartman to the ND plan book and enable TB to get some meaningful playing time. For the big games (Ohio State, Clemson and USC) it is likely that Hartman will need to go the route. Freeman cannot afford another "honest conversation" with a once starting quarterback that will lead them to leave and then make us look to the transfer portal again for an experienced quarterback.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Okay, first and far most after ready through evert post . BK was trying to avoid turnovers at all cost resulting in safe passes either to the check down or to the side line relying on the defense to stop other teams, which, works when you are dealing with an inferior opponent.
SH will not be hand cuffed on throwing the ball down the field or across the middle.
TB did better than I thought he would after a long layoff and lack of playing time. The first pic 6 was off of a tip pass which could happen to anyone. The next pic 6 was because of bad play calling. USC had nothing left in the tank and ND has a 230 lb back beyond a total no brainer. TCU with the second best QB in the country ran the ball three times in the same scenario than kicked a field goal. It is way to early to judge TB who has a lot of talent. He was making throws I have not seen out of any ND QB in a long time. Maybe, part of the plan is to have SH be a tutor to TB and the rest of the QB’s who better than the most accomplished QB in the history of the ACC to learn from. Instant QB coach. I imagine TB will get a series or two during the games. You can see flash’s of brillance

I'll take a 40 yard interception on third and long over a punt when you're down by 14 in the 4th quarter assuming there is not much of a return. Some of Hartman's interceptions were simply trying to make something out of nothing. Some were just his aggressive style. He will need to clean those up at ND and cut that those down. I don't think that should be hard to do with a vastly better OL and 3-4 stud running backs. He just doesn't need to force things at ND or take big risks to win games where his team is out matched in talent. No point when you have the forces behind and in front. He should not be playing from behind or trying to win games in the 4th quarter. ND should dominate most of its opponents in 2023 even if he barely throws the ball. He's going to need to make some plays against Ohio State and I hope Tommy lets it rip.

 

[Get Nasty]

At this point, I don't think TB needs packages but can play with the entire offense play book. To clarify, I am extremely happy that Hartman is coming to ND. I have always liked his play and he is coming from an intelligent school with a record of good quarterbacks (remember Wolford?). My throw it at the wall 65-35 split was based on the reps that the 1 and 2 quarterbacks get in practice. The first three games should give the opportunity to acclimate Hartman to the ND plan book and enable TB to get some meaningful playing time. For the big games (Ohio State, Clemson and USC) it is likely that Hartman will need to go the route. Freeman cannot afford another "honest conversation" with a once starting quarterback that will lead them to leave and then make us look to the transfer portal again for an experienced quarterback.

by packages i should have said game situations. Maybe he's best in short yardage situations, maybe he's best at first and goal inside the 5, maybe he's best in a bad weather ground and pound game

You have to be able to trust him not to throw pick 6's though.

 

[tbonesays]

He has three years of eligibility left. He will stay and start after Hartman leaves. Minchey isn't starting as a freshmen, unless Buchner falters badly as a junior. The path is set... Hartman this year, Buchner for 2, minchey for 2, then car for 2.

That's the way the room is now set up. Will they all stay? Will they move up, down, or out...who knows. But that is the way the room is set, and its a strong room

You can't plan ahead anymore with the transfer carousel. No one is going to stay a backup when they can start somewhere else. For example say Carr comes in 2024, can you predict Buchner would stay around to play with Minchey, Carr, AND whomever transfers in?