From 30 seconds away..... to now being banished. How quickly it can turn.

[nemeth#5]

Nick Saban's Record for his first 11 season as HC at a D1 School (MSU, LSU, Alabama)
84 Wins
46 Losses
1 Tie

Brian Kelly's Record for his first 11 seasons as HC at a D1 School (Cincinnati and ND)
93 Wins
37 Losses

Be Careful what you all wish for.

 

[perseverare]

Nick Saban's Record for his first 11 season as HC at a D1 School (MSU, LSU, Alabama)
84 Wins
46 Losses
1 Tie

Brian Kelly's Record for his first 11 seasons as HC at a D1 School (Cincinnati and ND)
93 Wins
37 Losses

Be Careful what you all wish for.

you keep thinking like that? like dancing in quiksand!

 

[nemeth#5]

you keep thinking like that? like dancing in quiksand!

Better than picking up the Mac coach of the year every 5 years.

This is our worst season in a decade and we didn't lose a game by more than 18. Yes, I know that shouldn't be the standard we aim for. . . but in my opinion it will only get better.

 

[Kelso86]

Maybe I missed it this year -- but, where was the leadership from the players? Who was that "leader" on the field?

I get the coaching snafu's -- too many to count.

 

[nemeth#5]

Maybe I missed it this year -- but, where was the leadership from the players? Who was that "leader" on the field?

I get the coaching snafu's -- too many to count.

I didn't see any leaders out there. Especially on defense. I would see some big plays on defense and Jones would get up and walk back to the huddle.... with no celebration or energy from the team.... barely even a high-five.

 

[Java65]

Nick Saban's Record for his first 11 season as HC at a D1 School (MSU, LSU, Alabama)
84 Wins
46 Losses
1 Tie

Brian Kelly's Record for his first 11 seasons as HC at a D1 School (Cincinnati and ND)
93 Wins
37 Losses

Be Careful what you all wish for.

Saban's record the last 5 years.

 

[nemeth#5]

Saban's record the last 5 years.

Exactly my point......

 

[Java65]

Exactly my point......

Sorry.. computer went nuts and I didn't finish.

Saban last 5 years.
62 Wins
6 Losses

Kelly last 5 years.
31 Wins
20 Losses

Saban got better over time, Kelly is regressing. Thank you for pointing out that Saban has been able to learn and adapt while Kelly get's worse and worse.

 

[nemeth#5]

Sorry.. computer went nuts and I didn't finish.

Saban last 5 years.
62 Wins
6 Losses

Kelly last 5 years.
31 Wins
20 Losses

Saban got better over time, Kelly is regressing. Thank you for pointing out that Saban has been able to learn and adapt while Kelly get's worse and worse.

Not a fair comparison. First 11 years of both coaches is apples to apples.... You are adjusting your stats to back your argument.

 

[Java65]

Not a fair comparison. First 11 years of both coaches is apples to apples.... You are adjusting your stats to back your argument.

What?!? 5 year for both coaches isn't apples to apple?

It goes to show that Saban started off slow, learned from his mistakes and became a better and better coach over time. On the other hand Kelly has not.

So your argument is that you prefer a coach that starts off great but as opponents learn his tendencies and weakness he does not adjust and his record gets worse over time. As opposed to a coach that makes mistakes in the beginning, learns from those mistakes and improves over time.

My argument is very fair and valid and shines a giant light on why Kelly should not be the HC any longer.

 

[nemeth#5]

What?!? 5 year for both coaches isn't apples to apple?

It goes to show that Saban started off slow, learned from his mistakes and became a better and better coach over time. On the other hand Kelly has not.

So your argument is that you prefer a coach that starts off great but as opponents learn his tendencies and weakness he does not adjust and his record gets worse over time. As opposed to a coach that makes mistakes in the beginning, learns from those mistakes and improves over time.

My argument is very fair and valid and shines a giant light on why Kelly should not be the HC any longer.

My point is it took Saban 11 years to figure it out...... and BK is on year 11. And through their 11 years, BK has a better record.

You wouldn't take take a player in the nfl who has been in the league for 6 years and compare his last 3 years to the last 3 years of someone who has been playing for 10.

 

[NyyorkerND]

Really? Garry Patterson has. In 4 years Helfrich won 10+ games twice and 9 games a 3rd year. David Shaw. Chryst at Wisconsin has won 10 games his first 2 season. Mark Richt at UG did. Art Briles at Baylor. Gundy at OkSt.

If Niumatalolo beats either Temple or Army he'll have 2 years in a row of winning 10+ games.

The fact is with 13 games and a bowl it should be fairly easy to win 10 games in 3 out of 5 years at ND.[/QUOTE

No one has done it consistenly it the last 5 years Gary came close in the Mountain West Confernce I repeat mountain west conference. Look at his record in his new conference you'll want him fired. Navy lol you're reaching we've beaten them if that's your benchmark, Helfich just got fired, Art Briles (you seriously use this embarrsment of a coach in an argument) David Shaw hasn't done it yet. Mike Gundy has won 10 plus games 4 times in a twelve year career. Paul Chryst wouldn't have lasted past his first 3 season at ND go look at his Pittsburgh record. The fact of the matter is your searching for the top 5 coaches in college football and you're not getting him that's why I said your expectations are unreasonable. Not to mention we are shopping with coupons. Brian Kelly makes what 1.5 million a year? he makes less than top 10 teams coordiantiors in some cases.

 

[Java65]

My point is it took Saban 11 years to figure it out...... and BK is on year 11. And through their 11 years, BK has a better record.

You wouldn't take take a player in the nfl who has been in the league for 6 years and compare his last 3 years to the last 3 years of someone who has been playing for 10.

Saban became HC of MSU in 1995 and Kelly became HC of GVSU in 1991. While DivII football isn't as competitive he still had HC experience at a college level. Regardless of that Kelly became a D1 HC in 2004. Clearly both had a wealth of HC experience before arriving at their current teams.

How did it take Saban 11 years to figure it out? He took an MSU program that was on probation in '95 and by 1999 they were 9-2 and ranked 9th in the country. He then went to LSU and won consistently there and even won a NC. It didn't take Saban 11 years to figure out how to coach, it took him 4 years.

So we are not comparing a guy who has 30 years of experience to a guy with 5 years experience. Both of them have been CFB HC for decades and Saban has improved with time and Kelly is regressing.

 

[nemeth#5]

Saban became HC of MSU in 1995 and Kelly became HC of GVSU in 1991. While DivII football isn't as competitive he still had HC experience at a college level. Regardless of that Kelly became a D1 HC in 2004. Clearly both had a wealth of HC experience before arriving at their current teams.

How did it take Saban 11 years to figure it out? He took an MSU program that was on probation in '95 and by 1999 they were 9-2 and ranked 9th in the country. He then went to LSU and won consistently there and even won a NC. It didn't take Saban 11 years to figure out how to coach, it took him 4 years.

So we are not comparing a guy who has 30 years of experience to a guy with 5 years experience. Both of them have been CFB HC for decades and Saban has improved with time and Kelly is regressing.

See my previous post of their records in their first 11 season as HC of a D1 program.

 

[NyyorkerND]

Nick Saban's Record for his first 11 season as HC at a D1 School (MSU, LSU, Alabama)
84 Wins
46 Losses
1 Tie

Brian Kelly's Record for his first 11 seasons as HC at a D1 School (Cincinnati and ND)
93 Wins
37 Losses

Be Careful what you all wish for.

Couldn't agree more that's why I brought him to start my discussion. Like you, we're not saying he is going to be Saban but darn acting like he's a bum on the curb who doesn't know what he is doing is ridiculous.

 

[Java65]

See my previous post of their records in their first 11 season as HC of a D1 program.

I like how you conveniently ignore several key facts.

1. You don't want to consider Kelly's HC experience at GVSU. You are trying to assert that up until CMU Kelly didn't exist. Kelly's HC resume doesn't start at CMU, it started in 1991. So trying to claim he's still "learning" to be a HC is erroneous.

2. You want to ignore Kelly's GVSU experience to bolster your argument but you are more than happy to give him credit for rolling up wins in that worst conference in Div 1 football.

3. MSU was on probation when Saban took them over and it greatly impacted his first few years.

4. Kelly padded his win total by playing in the cupcake league while Saban was battling it out in the Big 10 and SEC. I think we can all see how Kelly does against real teams.

5. Honestly, I could not care less what either coach did 20 years ago or 10 years ago. In 7 years at ND Kelly is 59-31 and he's only had 2 good seasons in 7.... not nearly good enough.

I guess we should just agree to disagree because you clearly think Kelly is the right man for the job and I do not and neither is going to convince the other.

 

[nemeth#5]

I like how you conveniently ignore several key facts.

1. You don't want to consider Kelly's HC experience at GVSU. You are trying to assert that up until CMU Kelly didn't exist. Kelly's HC resume doesn't start at CMU, it started in 1991. So trying to claim he's still "learning" to be a HC is erroneous.

2. You want to ignore Kelly's GVSU experience to bolster your argument but you are more than happy to give him credit for rolling up wins in that worst conference in Div 1 football.

3. MSU was on probation when Saban took them over and it greatly impacted his first few years.

4. Kelly padded his win total by playing in the cupcake league while Saban was battling it out in the Big 10 and SEC. I think we can all see how Kelly does against real teams.

5. Honestly, I could not care less what either coach did 20 years ago or 10 years ago. In 7 years at ND Kelly is 59-31 and he's only had 2 good seasons in 7.... not nearly good enough.

I guess we should just agree to disagree because you clearly think Kelly is the right man for the job and I do not and neither is going to convince the other.

Well I wasn't ignoring them. I was pointing out that the numbers I came up with were from D-1 schools. In my opinion I don't think experience at GVSU really helps you out a lot for a school like ND ( maybe I am wrong).

And ya, true points on the level of competition....

I do agree that we should agree to disagree. My point on this topic was not to debate Kelly directly vs Saban (obvious Saban trumps everyone)...My reasoning for bringing Saban up was to point out it can take time for a coach to figure it out.

My point was originally that things can quickly turn from good to crap... and as fans we are way to quick to decide what we think is best for the program.

I wouldn't say that I clearly think BK is the best fit for the job.... but he is significantly better than a MAC coach who has had one good year. Remember, he could easily have a fall from grace with a few injuries and suspensions next year and be a .500 coach at the MAC.

Anyway, we all have an opinion.... and none of ours matter when it comes to this.

 

[NyyorkerND]

I like how you conveniently ignore several key facts.

1. You don't want to consider Kelly's HC experience at GVSU. You are trying to assert that up until CMU Kelly didn't exist. Kelly's HC resume doesn't start at CMU, it started in 1991. So trying to claim he's still "learning" to be a HC is erroneous.

2. You want to ignore Kelly's GVSU experience to bolster your argument but you are more than happy to give him credit for rolling up wins in that worst conference in Div 1 football.

3. MSU was on probation when Saban took them over and it greatly impacted his first few years.

4. Kelly padded his win total by playing in the cupcake league while Saban was battling it out in the Big 10 and SEC. I think we can all see how Kelly does against real teams.

5. Honestly, I could not care less what either coach did 20 years ago or 10 years ago. In 7 years at ND Kelly is 59-31 and he's only had 2 good seasons in 7.... not nearly good enough.

I guess we should just agree to disagree because you clearly think Kelly is the right man for the job and I do not and neither is going to convince the other.

It's not trying to convince you we are all ND fans here what I'm saying bc I won't speak for Nemeth, is we do not know if he is the right man for the job yet but I'm ok giving him next year to fix this. Also Java take into account that we don't pay coaches at ND we don't write blank checks. The top assistant coaches make more than Kelly.

 

[Java65]

NY, Kelly makes 4.5 million a year. He is one of the top paid coaches in the game.

http://www.coacheshotseat.com/CFBCoachesSalaries.htm

 

[NyyorkerND]

NY, Kelly makes 4.5 million a year. He is one of the top paid coaches in the game.

http://www.coacheshotseat.com/CFBCoachesSalaries.htm

Hey Java here's what I was looking at.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

 

[Java65]

Well I wasn't ignoring them. I was pointing out that the numbers I came up with were from D-1 schools. In my opinion I don't think experience at GVSU really helps you out a lot for a school like ND ( maybe I am wrong).

And ya, true points on the level of competition....

I do agree that we should agree to disagree. My point on this topic was not to debate Kelly directly vs Saban (obvious Saban trumps everyone)...My reasoning for bringing Saban up was to point out it can take time for a coach to figure it out.

My point was originally that things can quickly turn from good to crap... and as fans we are way to quick to decide what we think is best for the program.

I wouldn't say that I clearly think BK is the best fit for the job.... but he is significantly better than a MAC coach who has had one good year. Remember, he could easily have a fall from grace with a few injuries and suspensions next year and be a .500 coach at the MAC.

Anyway, we all have an opinion.... and none of ours matter when it comes to this.

For the record I'm not in favor of Fleck. I have posted my criteria for hiring a HC and part of that is experience.

There certainly are no guarantees with any coach, Kelly or otherwise but you certainly have to be smart about it and hiring a guy with virtually no experience for a job like ND is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Java65]

Hey Java here's what I was looking at.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Yea, that's been discussed here before and it's been shown to be wrong.

Logically, why would Kelly ever agree to that. There are 30 other programs that pay more and don't have a 1/4 of the pressure or restrictions.

 

[onlyonenow]

There is Saban and there is UM. That is the top tier of College coaching at this time. They are clearly better than anyone else.

After those two you could probably throw a blanket over the next group. Say about 6-8. Herman, Peterson, etc. All those with experience at winning at the top level of competition.

THAT is the group we need to pick the next HC from.

Unless we are willing to take a chance on a younger coach at a lesser program. Or an established coach at a lesser program.

Bluntly speaking that has not worked out too well for us in the past. There are some hires that were apparent to all as reaching or frankly dumb (Faust best exemplifies it). Tytanic was another- he barely won at Stanford so how in the world was he going to do better at ND?

Heir apparent did not work either (Davie). One without HC experience (Weis)

And getting a steady winner at a lesser program (Kelly) went a little better but is now diminishing.

ND needs to bit the bullet and find the best PROVEN HC that will fit here.

Unless we spot a real genius in the making at a lower level but that is pretty risky; a lot of HC's can dominate at a lower level and come up short once they reach the big league.

 

[NyyorkerND]

Yea, that's been discussed here before and it's been shown to be wrong.

Logically, why would Kelly ever agree to that. There are 30 other programs that pay more and don't have a 1/4 of the pressure or restrictions.

I mean I'd rather go with the name brand reporting (USA Today) just imo. Maybe his contract has clauses with escalators built into it based on performance and his base salary is 1.6 mil. Bc if he is making 4 plus million per year and he signed a 6 year extension a year or so back he's owed way more than the 10 million or so people are saying it would cost to terminate him, you know.

 

[Java65]

I mean I'd rather go with the name brand reporting (USA Today) just imo. Maybe his contract has clauses with escalators built into it based on performance and his base salary is 1.6 mil. Bc if he is making 4 plus million per year and he signed a 6 year extension a year or so back he's owed way more than the 10 million or so people are saying it would cost to terminate him, you know.

Couple things. Nobody know for certain the exact amount because as a private institution ND is not required to release his salary and they don't. Second, a contract probably has a buyout clause that is not equal to the total amount of the annual salaries. This benefits both parties. If Kelly found an NFL job then they may not balk if he has a $10 mil buyout but if they have to pay ND $50 mil they probably aren't going to be willing to do that. Lastly, as I said before Kelly isn't stupid, he's not going to stay at ND for $1.6 mil when he could go to a place like Purdue or NC State for more money and LOT less pressure.

Also, I think it's a stretch to say USA Today wouldn't print inaccurate info, hundreds of examples of new organizations reporting things they don't check or know to be inaccurate

 

[perseverare]

every penny more paid to Kelligula is money wasted!

Notre Dame administration is shameful! The guy pooped on their lunch!

 

[Extirpate 6951]

every penny more paid to Kelligula is money wasted!

Notre Dame administration is shameful! The guy pooped on their lunch!

And they ate it!

 

[quinnts]

And don't people like you get it, yet? Kelly always comes up short. It's always, well we only lost by three, or we aren't getting blown out, and winning is hard.

Since when did ND become the school that celebrates getting to and getting pounded in big bowl games?

1994

 

[Tru2Irish]

Not a fair comparison. First 11 years of both coaches is apples to apples.... You are adjusting your stats to back your argument.

Facts are facts. Thanks for pointing to Kelly as a loser.

 

[nemeth#5]

Facts are facts. Thanks for pointing to Kelly as a loser.

Was less of a loser in his first 11 years compared to Saban

 

[cgvr]

Not a fair comparison. First 11 years of both coaches is apples to apples.... You are adjusting your stats to back your argument.

Oh dear Lord, kelly just got destroyed by the NCAA. He stinks.
Where is the National title or major bowl win for that matter? weis went to major bowls 40% of his tenure at ND. kelly is at 33 and plummeting..
There is nothing we do well....zero identity.
Many in my neck of the woods, "I wouldn't play for that......"
PS We were not playoff bound with a win over Stanford last year either