I think me but I’ll confirm upon delivery…. Hopefully not a me, myself, and Irene delivery
Freeman crushing D recruiting- offense better pick up!
- Thread starter Get Nasty
- Start date
He had other options if he wanted to continue playing football? I guess transferring
Yeah he could have grad transferred like hundreds of kids are doing these days. Maybe you haven't heard of it
How many games did Lou's Irish lose? 30 How many games did Ara lose at ND in the same length ot time? 17 How many Championships did Lou bring home? 1 Ara 2 and some media a third. Lou did an amazing job at ND. Ara stands with Rockne and Leahy as the three greatest coaches in Notre Dame History. You never know about Freeman; only time will tell.
I would argue that Lou won 2, and jobbed out of one. I would also argue that the CFB landscape that Lou coached in was quite different then Rockne, Leahy and even Ara. So I'm gonna say we have had 4 great coaches
Last edited:
I've always liked Lou Holtz but when you look at the records Lou lost almost as many games as the other three combined. Rockne, Leahy, and Parseghian lose 41 combine games while Lou lose 30 games. I would never let any coach into the great class with 30 loses. I consider Lou in the Special class because of the 30 loses. Lou won one championship while the other three won 9. Parseghian just missed on 9 other championships so you can't count almost. That's how I see the picture.
Lou is remembered in a good way because he’s a very likable guy. He’s also the last to win one. Agree he’s not better than the others you mention. ND hasn’t been willing to be that great since Lou left. A lot of folks seem to think ND has always been stingy academically. While that’s somewhat true, Lou was able to recruit kids we wouldn’t consider nowadays. Rudy got in during Ara’s day with JC credits. Those days are over. ND is far harder to get into now than it was 30 years ago. Today you look at a kid like Brandon Joseph and he’s only getting in because he’s at a similarly ranked academic school.
Rockne/Leahy/Parseghian should not even be compared in the same way to any of the modern ND coaches. They coached in a COMPLETELY different era of college football where there was an extremely low # of "big" college football programs and television didn't even freaking exist for 2 of the 3 of them.
It's about as literally impossible as it can get for any modern ND coach to even sniff that kind of success with all of the factors in play. They had it easier on EVERY tangible level and yes Rockne should get the credit for that because he in large part "made" ND that national name in college football, but again the landscape is nowhere near comparable to what it was in those days.
I'm not saying ND cannot win a NC in modern college football....they can. But I don't really know many more years everyone here has to go through of them having a good regular season record and then losing in a post season game to the good teams to show you that they're just not on the level that you think they are/want them to be and it's going to take a special situation for it to all be put together.
I know you will all fight it to the death that Notre Dame is still "Notre Dame"......but they're not. They are in NAME, yes. But in reality/performance, no. And they haven't been that for a long time. The fact that names like Rockne/Leahy/Parseghian are even freaking referenced anymore is sad in itself and shows how few new memories there are to replace ones that happened before the recruits fathers were even born.
It's about as literally impossible as it can get for any modern ND coach to even sniff that kind of success with all of the factors in play. They had it easier on EVERY tangible level and yes Rockne should get the credit for that because he in large part "made" ND that national name in college football, but again the landscape is nowhere near comparable to what it was in those days.
I'm not saying ND cannot win a NC in modern college football....they can. But I don't really know many more years everyone here has to go through of them having a good regular season record and then losing in a post season game to the good teams to show you that they're just not on the level that you think they are/want them to be and it's going to take a special situation for it to all be put together.
I know you will all fight it to the death that Notre Dame is still "Notre Dame"......but they're not. They are in NAME, yes. But in reality/performance, no. And they haven't been that for a long time. The fact that names like Rockne/Leahy/Parseghian are even freaking referenced anymore is sad in itself and shows how few new memories there are to replace ones that happened before the recruits fathers were even born.
"While that’s somewhat true, Lou was able to recruit kids we wouldn’t consider nowadays."
Yes, under Rosenthal, he was, and, the rules were different (Prop 48). But, when Wadsworth became the AD, those days ceased. Kelly proved you can recruit at ND -- Freeman has helped ND get into places they never even attempted. He is the one who has pushed the envelope at ND a bit in giving kids an opportunity to succeed at ND.
"Rudy got in during Ara’s day with JC credits."
While Rudy is a great story, a 1 play wonder does not fit the narrative. He also was NOT a scholarship athlete.
The game, and ND, was much harder in Lou's era then Rockne or Leahy, it's not even debatable. Players of Rockne and Leahy's era would not even get in ND in Lou's time. That's fact.
To those moaning about the lose, in an exciting closely played NY6 bowl game try considering this,
ND’s recruiting did not fall apart or even suffer a slight setback while others aboard the coaching carousel
were in free fall, chaos, decimated and unhinge. ND actually improved standing among top targets!
Did you who might count yourself as whining even stop to appreciate that? Well done new staff!
ND’s recruiting did not fall apart or even suffer a slight setback while others aboard the coaching carousel
were in free fall, chaos, decimated and unhinge. ND actually improved standing among top targets!
Did you who might count yourself as whining even stop to appreciate that? Well done new staff!
At the press conference introducing Dan Devine I remember like it was yesterday Father Ted said, "We have decided to take Notre Dame Football in a different direction. Ara had recommended Tom Pagna for coach at ND. Tom was Ara's faithful warhorse at Northwestern and Notre Dame. He basically ran the offense for ND. He's the only assistant coach with no head coaching experience I thought would thrive at Notre Dame. IMHO He would have kept Ara's system going into the future. Why do I say this, he ran the offense, made the offense game plan, called the offensive plays during the game. worked with the quarterbacks, running backs, tight ends, and slot receivers. The offense rest safely in his hands. I think Father Ted made a big mistake not taking Ara's advice. Just my opinion.
Excuse me but didn't Dan Devine win a national championship???? Seems like it worked out .. until they ran Devine out of town. Different era for sure
Might not be freeman’s fault but we lost Moore one of the countries top dbs at a huge position of need, Williams and walker. We didn’t keep the entire class.
“that’a’way” to see a glass half empty! You surely know kids commit early knowing their real decision has yet to be made! It is like making a safe vacation reservation, while you shop for the better accommodations or price.
Again, not saying it’s freeman’s fault but you also can’t say he kept the entire class together and the class was even more committed. We lost 3 top targets and all huge positions of need.
The nice thing about opinions is everybody has one. If you want to settle with one championship then fine. In that era with Joe Montana at quarterback and that defense yes they should have won more. If you remember they struggled to win the first game with Montana's help in 1977, lost the second game, and stated Montana in the third. That's when the team took off. Parseghian's only advice to Devine was take care of Montana. Devine should have done a lot more with the talent left him by Parseghian. Only the Lord knows what might have happened if Ara only kept his health. If you lived through this then you should already know this because a lot was going on in 1977. There was a lot of us Irish fans who wanted to tar and feather Devine. I was a hot head back then. I guess the last thirty years have calmed me down. My favorite song is still thank God and Greyhound he's Gone. I still sing it on appropriate occasions. Like right now!!!
Opinions are like bung holes......Everybody has one and everybody thinks the other guy's stinks.
Ara, I love you, but I think the "Saga of Joe Montana, Unloved Quarterback," is reaching new heights of fantasy. I've never heard anywhere that Ara Parseghian told Devine to take care of Montana. In fact, I highly doubt Ara even knew who Montana was, given the stress he was under that last year when Montana came in as one of six to eight quarterbacks in his class (depending on what version of the story you believe.) There is a series on Montana that you can watch on YouTube, and Montana claims he was the eighth string quarterback by the end of his freshman year. That fits nicely with the Devine-didn't-know-Montana's talent narrative that is so popular among Notre Dame fans. But it is simply not true. The fact is, Devine (or at least somebody on his staff) recognized Montana's talent because he was the #2 quarterback coming out of spring practice his freshman year. I was in the stands when ND played Northwestern in 1975, and Montana as a sophomore played much of the fourth quarter in place of the starter, Rick Slager. In 1976, Montana was named the starter over Slager, but he suffered a separated shoulder just before the season opener. The story I've been told is the following spring, Montana did not practice well or was held out of practice because of his shoulder injury, but he played in the Bookstore Basketball Tournament, and when Devine found out, he blew a rod. Obviously, that fall, Devine wanted to bury Montana on his depth chart, but was forced to use him in the Purdue game. When Montana rallied the team, Devine finally had to give him the starting job.
Devine was a quirky guy, but he was a pretty good football coach. His teams also played tougher schedules than Ara's did, with Michigan replacing Northwestern, Pitt growing into a national power, and a decent Clemson team on the schedule. He won his national championship with Parseghian's stars, but he left Faust a boatload of talent when he quit after the 1980 season.
At about the 7:20 Mark Ara talks about Montana. Ara said he knew who Montana was because he recruited him. I've been reading and following Ara Parseghian since I was10 years old. There is no saga here only truth. Believe it or not is your choice.
Last edited:
Except Austin and we don’t know on foskey and Patterson…. Our 3 most Important players to get back
Gotten everyone back except 1 guy who have announced obviously.
Austin was already gone
Great job by Freeman. And he's putting together a better staff than BK ever put together so far
