I recently heard BK say that the QB competition between Ian and BW is dead even. I realize you haven't been at the workouts and I also realize that I'm putting you on the spot, but my question is this. Do you think that we are hearing "coach speak" and BK is trying to keep both QBs motivated or is there a real possibility that the competition is too close to call for real? And, what happens if , for real, it's still too close to call in Fall camp. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing that there is no real separation between the QBs. I would think that BK and staff would like an idea who is #1 heading into Fall camp. Any thoughts?
Echo, Your Opinion Please
- Thread starter Toby Smart
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I will be checking into this....I will report on it later..Thanks for the info.......
Eric Hansen was talking about this topic the other day and he and Tyler James walked away with a clear one and two. They thought BW was clearly ahead of IB, who was clearly ahead of AD. The real issues didn't show up until game day. If the 70% passer BW showed up at ND Stadium on Saturdays then the sun would shine bright over ND Stadium. We should know more at the 21st B&G game.
lol yep, that 49 percent completion percentage from last year really has opponents shaking in their boots.
Look for this poster to deliver the big scoop somewhere around game 8 or 9 this season.
as you say none of us has the benefit of viewing practice for ourselves so we all rely on media reports. i'm guessing that if brian kelly said it publicly than that is likely the case. you can't fool the players and there is no benefit in trying. competition is always good in my opinion. if both are considered more than competent in the staffs eyes than that's a good thing. wimbush is clearly the more dynamic athlete and his performance last year pre injury should not be dismissed especially in the red zone. i like book very much but two quality quarters of football is a very small sample size. by all accounts wimbush has improved his mechanics going forward. i would not put ANY stock in what transpires in the spring game as that is the absolute worst scenario in which to make any sort of evaluation good or bad. the practice field is where depth chart decisions will be made. last year is just that. i choose to be positive regardless of who is running the huddle. i believe nd will be just fine. lots of talent on both sides of the ball.
last year is just that. if you don't think players can improve from year to year so be it.
USC, Michigan State, and North Carolina State all have reasons to be scared.
It will all come down to how much Wimbush can improve this off-season. If he can improve his mechanics, which improves his consistency, which in turn improves his confidence....we could see the USC/Mich State Wimbush (or better) play throughout 2018. That would not only see him win the starting job, but also see him lead a high effective and versatile offense.
If Wimbush doesn't improve, and we see the return of Miami/Stanford Wimbush, then he won't be starting. Simple as that.
According to the analyst & mods who have been at practice it is very clear BW is #1 right now.
They also said he has improved on three things that were sloppy last spring (which carried over into the season).
1) His footwork on throws
2) Making decisions faster
3) More confident in himself & his teammates, thus taking more chances & throwing WRs open.
Last spring he struggled in these areas & it showed come season time. The next big step is doing it in the B&G game since he struggled in it last year too.
They also said he has improved on three things that were sloppy last spring (which carried over into the season).
1) His footwork on throws
2) Making decisions faster
3) More confident in himself & his teammates, thus taking more chances & throwing WRs open.
Last spring he struggled in these areas & it showed come season time. The next big step is doing it in the B&G game since he struggled in it last year too.
I'm not totally doubting you, but I have't seen where BK has said the QB competition is dead even. Do you have a link?
Here's what I've heard him say:
In his press conference to open spring practice, when asked about the QB competition, BK said something to the effect that there would be competition but not in the sense of a traditional open competition. He stressed that BW did a lot of good things last year and earned the right to take first team reps in the first practice. He also said they weren't necessarily going to alternate between BW and IB taking first team reps. IB would get some 1st team reps but BW was likely going to see more as long as he performed well. Without directly saying so, BK made it clear that BW would get the first shot at being the number 1 QB.
In his most recent press conference on Saturday BK was asked if there was separation between the two QB's. BK said he didn't know if there was separation, so that may have sounded like he was saying the competition was "dead even", but he went on to say that BW has been more confident and that has meant a difference in his performance this spring compared to last year. He then went on to say, "If (BW's performance) continues to trend (up), that puts us in a really good position at the quarterback." He ended his comments by talking about how much better BW has been with his mechanics and accuracy. He really didn't talk about Book at all even though the question was about both QB's.
So far it sounds like the QB "competition" is only a competition in the sense that nothing is being handed to BW. He still has to prove he's the number 1 guy each practice, but as long as he continues to perform well he will likely continue to get more 1st team reps and will be the likely starter against Michigan in Sept.
On 3-24-18, in BK's presser and Jack Nolan's interviews with both Ian and BW, it was stated that there is very little to no separation (take your pick among the interviews) between the QBs but, you are correct, BK then went on to talk about BW and never mentioned a word about Ian. That's why I asked if BK is just talking "coach speak" and is just trying to keep both QBs pumped and competitive. "No separation" sounds like "dead even" to me. But, in reality, if you read between the lines, it sounds like it might be BW's job to lose if he stays consistent and that's what BK says he is looking for.
But practice is not the same as the combat experienced in actual games; once he starts getting hit, what then?
I like Book & how he competes, is unselfish & is ready to play as a backup. With that being said as a ND fan you really want Wimbush to fix a few things & be the starter. He was unstoppable at times last year & if he could have slowed things down just a little bit he would have been unstoppable because he had receivers running around wide open & couldn’t get them the ball. This year if you just corrects that (meaning hit the wide open receivers) ND will be hard to stop.
First, read my post. He had these same problems last spring. So if he doesn’t have them this spring that is a positive.
Second, his problem was never “combat experience in actual games; once he starts getting hit.” He actually never received that much pressure that caused his mistakes. His mistakes were his footwork, making timely decisions & trusting his arm to throw open receivers instead of waiting too long.
The funny thing looking back at last spring was that the analysts said he had those problems but no one was concerned because he did so many other things well. Turned out those problems were a big deal come season. So if he is already looking better that is a good thing.
If he simply slows his feet, throws on time to the wide open receiver, his percentage will be over 60% & that’s huge.
Just listened to Eric Hansen's radio spot and he says there is a definitive separation with the nod to BW. He also said that Avery took many snaps on Saturday but not to look too much into that (my words, not his , but same meaning). He did say Avery is a really good athlete. He mentioned that Ian will have nice completions in practice then throw a pick right to a defender. So, there's your QB update from an ND insider who has attended practices. Keep in mind, Eric's not the HC. On a final note, he said MZ had a professional look and attitude about himself at pro-day though his 40 was far from dazzling.
It might be a small thing, but I am really excited to see what the staff does with Avery. And yes, they are all my kids and I play no favorites, but a really good BW would give opposing DCs nightmares.
Spring games are worthless. They are for the fans. Coaches hate them and most players do too.
Joe Kuharich and Gerry Faust were real coaches too, and they sucked. Just because you are a coach doesn't make you a good one.
You have 3 teams in the country who can make the playoffs with a QB who cannot spin the ball and rip throws on a relatively consistent basis.
ND is not one of those teams. BW is a mini Jalen Hurts at best. At Bama that can get you to 12-1 and a Championship run. At ND you will need a masterful coaching job to get you to 9-10 wins at best.
BW is not, nor will ever be an accurate passer, I think Book can be, and perhaps a few of the other QB,s can as well...I would like to see anyone but BW behind center next year...
ND is not one of those teams. BW is a mini Jalen Hurts at best. At Bama that can get you to 12-1 and a Championship run. At ND you will need a masterful coaching job to get you to 9-10 wins at best.
BW is not, nor will ever be an accurate passer, I think Book can be, and perhaps a few of the other QB,s can as well...I would like to see anyone but BW behind center next year...
Gerry Faust was one of the most successful high school coaches in history. Not his fault ND hired him. Don',t let the facts get in the way of your usual uneducated position.
So you don't think players can improve ? The ability is certainly there. Mechanics must be more consistent for BW to get better. Writing him off is dumb.
The coaches told the mods on this site they are really looking forward to the spring game to see how BW progresses. That was where he first showed regression last year, so that’s another chance to see if he has progressed or regressed.
Not sure if you know this, but on the Premium site there are multiple former ND players, NFL players, former college & pro coaches, & current analyst who attend practices & are former staff. So when I mention “analysts, mods & coaches” I’m citing the comments from them. One is a former college QB coach who coached multiple All Americans. So I take his comments about QBs very seriously.
I think Avery will be on the field in many different ways. They really like the what he brings.
After the spring game last year, book looked to be the more polished passer. After last season, watching wimbush struggle w/ accuracy, it still seems as though book is the better passer. While he is a good athlete, book cannot do the things that wimbush can do w/ his legs, but I think both players can succeed, w/ more experience. As echo stated, the spring game isn’t as important as spring practice but it does give everyone a glimpse of how players perform at game speed.
& just to be fair, wimbush’s completion % had a lot to do w/ his own inaccuracy, but there were many, many drops.
Let’s hope one emerges and we finally get some consistent qb play. If we do, sky’s the limit.
& just to be fair, wimbush’s completion % had a lot to do w/ his own inaccuracy, but there were many, many drops.
Let’s hope one emerges and we finally get some consistent qb play. If we do, sky’s the limit.
Another factor in the fortunes at the QB position is that the left side of the OL will be manned by 1st time starters at those positions.
Spring games may be glorified practices, but they’re not worthless. Three things stood out to me during last year’s Spring game. Book looked the better passer by a lot between him and Wimbush; Kraemer looked terrible pass blocking at RT; and D Hayes looked like the most impressive rush DE at ND since Tuck. The first two proved somewhat prophetic to the season, and the later was marginal.
maybe worthless is too strong of an opinion. they are the absolute worst scenario in which to make make any concrete judgments good or bad on any player though. out of all spring practices, spring game performances are the least impactful on depth chart decisions.
i completely understand why they exist but they serve no real purpose for the staff. every coach i know would much prefer an additional practice day.
There are some posters here who have short (or selective) memories. BW played great the first 7-8 games last year. He was a TD machine!! He made some mistakes and his confidence went out the window.
There is absolutely no reason to think he can't move past those mistakes and be a significant contributor to the 2018 team. Writing him off at this point is moronic.
There is absolutely no reason to think he can't move past those mistakes and be a significant contributor to the 2018 team. Writing him off at this point is moronic.
It is obvious that a lot of people/posters love to focus on only the negative of everything regarding ND Football (and probably everything in their life). They will find any stats and arguments to back their point up and they will cling to those 'stats' and beat that dead horse with a bat crying, screaming, bitching and moaning the entire time until they get what they want..... and even then, they will change their tune and repeat the process at the first sign of adversity.
I agree in part. I mostly loved the way he played up until the Miami game. Initially thought that game was just one of those games where the entire team got whipped by a more motivated team playing at home with a loud supporting fan base. But then Wimbush followed that game with poor showings against Navy and Stanford, and against LSU. I think its fair to say the following:
He became a timid runner after the Wake game where he hurt his wrist, and that really hurt his overall effectiveness.
His mechanics and foot work were poor all season, but became more obvious as he lost confidence and passes were sailing all over the place. His receivers were also largely poor route runners and This further contributed to his problems.
His decision making as both a passer and runner were poor, and seemingly got worse as the season progressed.
He was a dominant presence despite these issues during the first six or seven games of the season. He made some great throws that were exceptionally accurate into tight coverage, and his running was elite for a QB. Our red zone efficiency up to the Miami game was off the charts outstanding.
Wimbush’s upside is very high if he can improve his mechanics and decision making, and recaptures his running dynamic. He can’t revert to poor mechanics when playing good teams that put pressure on the QB. I don’t think we’re going to know whether he will reach his considerable potential until the season begins, and the Michigan defense and that game environment will likely answer these questions. This team has playoff potential if Wimbush answers the bell.
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