Yeah, is that typically how employees officially get hired, by court ruling? I don't know that much about 'employee' law, but they're obviously professional athletes just like NFL players. So we could probably just copy that paradigm.
Does the NCAA
- Thread starter Patrish
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Saban is upset that the old way of funneling smaller amounts of money to players is no longer sufficient. Now that everyone is in the game, it makes it more difficult to dominate.
Sure it’s chaotic, but at the same point the transfer portal helps alleviate the talent discrepancy amongst top programs.
I’m almost surprised there’s such anger on the board regarding the portal as ND has been a team that’s benefited from it over the past couple years.
I'm not sure what you're getting at but Yes eventually in this case some courts gonna rule that their employees and they're gonna have to be treated as such directly by the schools.
I
I have no idea when. The how is pretty simple. A player brings a suit against the school.
Okay, and how would you see that affecting the PORTAL and NIL?
And I'm asking as I'm trying to figure out JUST WHAT ND WILL AND/OR WON'T DO AND UNDER WHICH CIRCUMSTANCES?
And if a conflict arises on ND's side -- GIVEN ITS SINGULAR APPROACH -- will the rest of CFB bend to ND's will -- as I would expect that in its own interest, ND would be opting for the more STRUCTURED, TRADITIONAL APPROACH -- or will the other powers simply say, WE'RE NOT AS STUDENT-ATHLETE CONCERNED as you are, and whatever guidlines prevail will reflect that?
In other words, I'm trying to GAME THIS OUT, if not WAR-GAME IT.
Of course, I can't be sure, but this could be THE MOST SERIOUS FORK IN THE ROAD ND has faced to date.
This could get COMPLICATED because in the first place, these players are STUDENTS. What if a player gets EXPELLED? How does that bear upon his ALSO being an employee? Would he still have a right as an employee to remain on the team even if he's NO LONGER A STUDENT?
I guess they would have to make EXPULSION legitimate grounds for firing the student-player for CAUSE. Or else he could conceivably seek damages.
I see plenty of potential CONFLICTS OF INTEREST in all of this and plenty of opportunity for LITIGATORS.
I guess the next step would then be for Wall Street to come up with a DERIVATIVES PRODUCT based on how many players change teams, including which teams and conferences benefit or lose because of those changes.
And mabye then a new FANDUEL APP covering the same dynamics for the penny-stock crowd.
But hasn't that been done multiple times where a player brings a suit against the school/NCAA? Point is, any reason a judge would rule differently now? Im not a judge, but I could see a judge saying, what do you need money from the school for? You have access to NIL now. And even if they did rule in player's favor my guess is NCAA would challenge it and tie it up in courts for years.
I think the landscape is changing so rapidly that none of the schools know exactly what their plan is 2, 3 or 4 years from now
Mine is a quest for stability
If a salary cap works for MLB and the NFL it just might work for the NCAA
Limit NIL payments per school
One of the reasons that the NFL is so successful is that it’s structured for parity.
It structured to create a more level playing field for the 32 teams
It’s structured to prevent a team or teams from dominating over time, it’s anti-dynasty
YES, caps would make GOOD SENSE. They wouldn't TOTALLY separate the haves from the have nots though, unless set at a PRETTY LOW LEVEL.
And I assume that they would be based on a REVENUE SHARING SYSTEM. As such, they woud have a DAMPENING EFFECT on money as a KEY MOTIVATOR in portal moves, given that teams would have only SO MUCH MONEY to work with.
What about NIL? Would you envision that being CAPPED AS WELL? Or would that be the ESCAPE-CLAUSE FUDGE FACTOR for OVER-IDENTIFIED BOOSTERS?
As for me, I don't see how NIL can be eliminated -- NOR, ACTUALLY, CAPPED -- but I'd certainly like to see it operating in the way IT WAS INTENDED.
Greater regulation would not only limit DYNASTIES but also the emergence of a CFB OLIGARCHY based on the BIGGEST SPENDERS among the HEAVYWEIGHT PROGRAMS.
It would also rescue ND from having to decide between the two EQUALLY UNACCEPTABLE CHOICES I cited.
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I'm not sure how that works when the schools are not officially paying the workers. Employment lawsuits like that are usually filed by official 'contractors' who say that they were actually employees.
Saban no longer has a dog in the fight, so that’s not what he’s upset about.
It’s not going to be more difficult to dominate, it’s going be easier, because the schools with the most money will be able to assemble a better team. Ohio State proved that this year.
Whether or not Notre Dame benefit is irrelevant, objectively and globally, from 30,000 feet, the combination of NIL and the portal has been a detriment to college football
Since it was SCOTUS that ruled on NIL, I doubt a cap would go unchallenged, but it’s a concept with merit.
AND, In all probability, I don’t think boosters will go the way of the dinosaur
What the F does that mean, I thought you were a master of logic? Guy says Saban retired because the advent of NIL robbed him of his advantage, and so he quit. And your retort, in classic logically fallacious style, is to say Saban doesn't have a dog in the fight, ie he's no longer a coach, so that's not why he's upset.
But I think someone like you loves logical fallacies. Regular logic is boring. You can't troll nobody with that shit. There's no fun or satisfaction in that.
That’s your argument …… “guys say …… “
That’s third-party hearsay and speculation and nothing more.
And that’s what you’re basing your premise on ? ? ?
That’s beyond a weak foundation in terms of supporting your position.
Try dealing with facts instead of hearsay and uninformed speculation
Saban no longer has a dog in the fight, he no longer has a direct vested interest in college football, hence he’s more objective with his observations and his opinions.
The NCAA cannot afford it. They don't get that much money to operate. It is not like they can raise the price of being a member without the members voting for such a measure.
I suppose that's true. But the elephant in the room, is that CFB is #2 revenue generating professional spectator sport in the country, ahead of MLB, bigger than the NBA. All we're waiting for is for the players to finally organize and go on strike, and then we'll get something approaching a final resolution. We're not waiting on a court decision, to dictate the economic fate of these players, with so many millions and billions of dollars within their grasp. The colleges have already decided to voluntarily rev share, in their panic. But 20% isn't going to cut it. More like 50%, and all of it to the players. You don't divvy any of that up amongst the rest of the sports.
So I don't think some impending court ruling is going to finally settle things. Not that anyone gives a shit about the players, everyone wants to continue to fleece them. Fans especially. But it's sort of ethically impossible. And there's plenty of people, and lawyers, that can make plenty of money fighting the good fight for them. And so far 'the courts' having been falling like dominos. And the jig is up!
You presented hearsay as fact.
Ergo your premise was flawed and invalid and now you’re trying to deflect and divert attention away from the fact that your position had zero merit.
The NCAA ended the 2023 fiscal year with $1.3 billion in revenue and $870 million in net assets, so they can afford it.
Get your facts right before you post !
You can sue for anything. There aren't specific categories that have to apply to a suit. The argument would be that the players are treated as employees, but not compensated as such.
Yes, a court ruling would settle things.
I don't know what you mean by "we're not waiting on a court decision." As of now, the schools don't have to legally consider the players as employees. A strike won't force them to do that.
Watch another coach comment on NIL and the Transfer Portal.
Here’s what I don’t understand
Years ago, if you took money, you were deemed a professional and couldn’t compete in college athletics
So how did the Supreme Court deal with retaining amateur status while allowing NIL
Here’s what I don’t understand
Years ago, if you took money, you were deemed a professional and couldn’t compete in college athletics
So how did the Supreme Court deal with retaining amateur status while allowing NIL
The Supreme Court didn't deal with amateur status, and they don't have to. Amateur status isn't law. It's just a rule by the ncaa. The Supreme Court has ruled that the legal right to make third-party deals for nil supersedes and arbitrary rule established by a private organization.
There is no such thing as amateur status, you bimbo. The Supreme Court dealt with it by saying, you're effin' robbing these players, stealing their NIL rights, and illegally kicking them out of college sports if they take any money at all. And there's no such thing as amateurism, it has no legal existence. You don't get paid, you're an amateur.
You guys never do, when someone is in sufficiently adamant disagreement with you, you're always befuddled as to why. Or at least you claim to be. Especially on a subject like this.
Anyway, this whole saga ain't over by a long shot, regardless of any single impending court ruling. I'm not entirely sure what the NCAA's long game is with this, I'm not a lawyer nor have I researched it that thoroughly. But they didn't offer 20% of the gross when they didn't have to for nothing, out of the goodness of their heart. And you can be sure that this arrangement that the schools have unilaterally proposed is not going to do justice to what the players could rightly demand, as it obviously does not. And the whole rev share dispensation sounds like an unnatural, utter shit show.
But as with professional athletes, the big TV contracts are made with the franchise, and the league, not the individual players. And they have unions, unions that can call for strikes, that negotiate their cut on their behalf. They call that a CBA. And that's what we should ultimately expect for CFB. And that way the schools can negotiate for a rules regime they can live with. And it won't be the 'Wild West' anymore.
The problem with your analogy with the nfl, is that the NFL players were already considered employees before they even formed a union.
In regards to why the NCAA offered the 20% amount, they did it as a settlement with the lawsuit that was brought against them. That's why they did it, which is the result of a lawsuit. That goes along with what I was saying about another lawsuit by the players to gain employment status.
The USGA had strict policies regarding amateur status.
If you received renumeration over a certain threshold due to your golfing ability, you forfeited your amateur status and couldn’t compete in any amateur events.
That included intercollegiate competitions
I’ll have to review the USGA’s current policy on amateur status to see how NIL impacted the USGA’s policy
The NCAA didn't allow any compensation it all. That's different from the USGA only allowing a certain limit
Before you opened your big uninformed mouth you should have researched college scholarship golfers and the retention of their amateur status.
I don't think there's any problem with my analogy. And it's not really an analogy. The NFL and CFB are essentially identical.
Players can form a union anytime they want. Are they going to get arrested if they do, are the pinkertons going to come break it up? The NCAA is banking entirely on player timidity and disunity, as well as the hoped-for loss of public support, and for players to simply accept whatever largesse the NCAA extends, with numerous individual lawsuits sprinkled in haphazardly, which so far have gone entirely against them. And which is all this rev share agreement amounts to and where it stems from, and is the only reason the schools are parting with any money at all. So largesse probably isn't the word for it. Whether or not they're considered employees legally is a technical matter to be dealt with as a matter of course, not anything on which the entire edifice of this scandal rests.
But if the players want their fair cut of the loot, they're going to have to reach out and take it. Obviously the establishment so to speak doesn't give a F about them. And that includes the vast majority of CFB fans over the age of like, 25.
The NFL and CFB are not identical, far from it.
Revenue sharing won’t happen in CFB
In addition, the players are not being paid by the schools they attend, outside third parties supply the NIL funds, hence, presently there is NO Employer-Employee relationship.
With regard to your statement implying that Notre Dame doesn’t give an F about the players, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You're getting all flustered ain't ya! As this is a particularly lame retort. Mr. troll. You suck at what you do!
There's a huge problem with your analogy.
The NFL and college football are not at all similat. In the NFL, the players are employees. They receive paychecks from the teams. They signed contracts. The teams have to pay payroll taxes on their employees.
None of that's going on in college football. As of now, college football players are not considered to be employees. That's what you're not getting. It's not that somebody's going to come physically break up the college football players if they decide to start a union. The problem is they don't yet have the legal standing to be able to do what you think they're going to do.
The issue is going to be that they're going to have to be considered employees for any of this other stuff to happen. The way that they're going to be considered employees is to go through the courts.
Please use descriptive post titles that describe the content that you are posting about instead of clickbait that people have to click in order to figure out what the topic is it's just common courtesy to the rest of the board
Well, there's precedent for CAPS and, of course, precedent for BOOSTERS.
I'm curious to see how long a TOTAL DEREGULATION REGIME can work.
But one thing is certain. Supporters won't stop attending games even if it's a NEW CAST OF CHARACTERS every year.
Flustered by you ?
Now that is funny
You don’t have the intellectual capital to get me flustered
My retort was far from lame, it directly refuted your contention that the NFL and CFB were identical, which was an incredibly absurd and ignorantstatement
Contrary to your uninformed opinion, I am very good at what I do. 👍
I’ll title my threads as I see fit
In case you haven’t figured it out yet, my titles are generally lead ins.
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