Can we stop all the fire Tommy talk?

[NDDadx3]

I don't get this "SEC team" concept.. It's not Georgia or Bama.. Rest of the SEC is average..
Vandy plays in SEC also.. if we play them should we pump our chest we beat SEC team?
South Carolina is slightly above Vandy... Glad we won.. We should beat South carolina 10 out of 10 times
They don't have the kind of players we have..
Oh yes, Fire Tommy.. With a good OC sky is the limit.. Tommy is very average to below average..

SEC has 5 or 6 teams that win the ACC easily.

What I want to know is what is it with fans and this explosive conviction, this by-now entirely predictable, overwrought reflexive reaction that if a pass play goes awry and results in an interception, especially if it's anywhere near the end zone, that it was a terrible play to have ever considered running? Utterly egregious and unforgivable. It's so trite, and so predictable, that you would think that fans that want to be know-it-alls would be at least a little cautious in so quickly denouncing these sorts of plays, as being nearly childlike in their highly possible lack of depth of insight, and that it doesn't make you look smart or like you possess any subtlety in what you're seeing.... And only that the temptation to use the interception, very crudely and nakedly, as something to weaponize against the object of your hatred, in this case Tommy Rees, who I don't much care for either I will admit, is irresistible....

So do any of you really know wtf you're talking about? Could you actually give a TED talk to a roomful of coaches and they would all nod thoughtfully in agreement?

I don't know much about the art/science of good playcalling, which would seem very much like a pretty extremely esoteric thing. I do know we had 550 yards of total offense, scored 45 points, and as frequently is the case with Rees as OC, ran several plays both big and small where it really seemed like Rees dialed up a winner. Again, as much as I don't personally care for him, I had to grudgingly admit.....

So what's up with the ultra-predictable coach bashing whenever a pass play in the red zone gets picked?

these are all fair points, but life isn’t fair. Coaches are judged on results, especially in the red zone. It’s fair to say it was not the right point in the game to throw into the endzone. There’s an old adage, when you throw the ball 3 things can happen and 2 of them aren’t good. Of course if we score an easy TD not only is no one complaining, they are probably espousing the genius of Tommy Rees, like they did on the TD pass at the end of the Clemson game.

 

[francade]

“I'll tell you what, look up the actual stats on our 1st down play calls. If the ratio of runs to passes is even half of what you are claiming - so 5 runs to 1 pass - I'll buy you a pair of tickets to the game of your choice next season.”

I was embellishing the 10-1 ratio. But we ran the ball on first about 3 times more than we passed it. My point was that most of them were putting us in 2nd and long situations. We did it too often based on its success rate. You may think rees did a good job calling plays on 1st down, I didn’t.

 

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

At least for one more season????

558 total yards

45 points against an SEC team

I am a fan

Never, we wanted to fire him as the QB, now we want to fire him as the OC…

 

[savvyandsassier]

I agree with your sentiment about decisive opinions about Tommy being fired.

But I disagree that one needs to be a totally knowledgeable football coach to recognize errors and areas of improvement. Coaches might get 95% right that you and I never could, but we as dedicated fans can identify 5% that might be off.

Do you ever watch chess? Internet commenters often spot a decisive weakness in a move, well before the player realizes it. That doesn't mean the commenter is as good as the grandmaster.

Point blank: I'm not a very good game caller, needing an immersion in Xs and Os. But even I saw that Tommy made some egregious specific mistakes as well as not optimally handling Estime. He's done this all season, making inopportune calls. It even took a while for him to realize he had a power running game.

Like I said, I don't decisively call for anything but saying Tommy is learning on the job, to the point where it seems a liability against the better teams.

Well maybe it was a dumb call. It certainly was regrettable. I don't really know. It certainly counts as low hanging fruit for the collective peanut gallery. Especially when otherwise it seemed like the offense put on a clinic....

 

[banmate6]

Well maybe it was a dumb call. It certainly was regrettable. I don't really know. It certainly counts as low hanging fruit for the collective peanut gallery. Especially when otherwise it seemed like the offense put on a clinic....

The Irish got the points, which is hard to argue against overall. I attribute this to some combination of a solid run game, good enough OL play that got stronger into the game, Buchner's running, and, sure, some Rees play calling. But I'm unsure about the quality of the SC defense, doesn't seem very strong, but I could be wrong...this being a major factor how I contextualize last night's game.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not for the knee jerk decisive calls for removal against Freeman, Rees, or even Buchner, who I have the most skepticism about. I think ND did a fine job over the course of a season. I gave Freeman and the team a C+...which is a good man given the circumstances.

For me, it might have been a B or B+ if the Irish won against Stanford and Marshall. I'm hoping for an A next season, meaning a playoff or close playoff run. Fingers crossed on solidifying the QB situation, which I think is key.

 

[savvyandsassier]

The Irish got the points, which is hard to argue against overall. I attribute this to some combination of a solid run game, good enough OL play that got stronger into the game, Buchner's running, and, sure, some Rees play calling. But I'm unsure about the quality of the SC defense, doesn't seem very strong, but I could be wrong...this being a major factor how I contextualize last night's game.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not for the knee jerk decisive calls for removal against Freeman, Rees, or even Buchner, who I have the most skepticism about. I think ND did a fine job over the course of a season. I gave Freeman and the team a C+...which is a good man given the circumstances.

For me, it might have been a B or B+ if the Irish won against Stanford and Marshall. I'm hoping for an A next season, meaning a playoff or close playoff run. Fingers crossed on solidifying the QB situation, which I think is key.

Like I say, I have my layman's/fan's sense of whether I just witnessed a good offensive performance, and this game pretty much crushed it. Not only did we put up the numbers overall in a pretty big way, so many individual plays seemed to really work. If I'm TR after last night, I'm smoking my cigar with a big fat satisfying grin on my face.....

 

[thehellyousay]

Tommy does my head in, I lost it on that pick six from the 5 it's clearly a run down but with all that being said a 9 and 4 season for a first year head coach and staff together, I'll take it. We had like 7 wins vs top 25 teams I think. I've always said I'm not gonna judge Freeman till after year 3 and I'll stick to that.

me too, but SC guessed right, sitting back in zone - they were gouging them on the ground, why not keep running it? so in that vein, it should have caught them off-guard, but it didn't. They didn't sell out on the run.

bear in mind, I lost my mind at the time, saying the exact opposite, and I have the texts to prove it, but, in hindsight, I see why he made that call. first and goal from the 7, not the 5. poor read by TB - he never saw that guy drop back because he never looked to the left at all. that was on TB, not Rees.

 

[NDDadx3]

me too, but SC guessed right, sitting back in zone - they were gouging them on the ground, why not keep running it? so in that vein, it should have caught them off-guard, but it didn't. They didn't sell out on the run.

bear in mind, I lost my mind at the time, saying the exact opposite, and I have the texts to prove it, but, in hindsight, I see why he made that call. first and goal from the 7, not the 5. poor read by TB - he never saw that guy drop back because he never looked to the left at all. that was on TB, not Rees.

I’d understand that call in the first quarter when the chess game is still on, but not in winning time when the defense is on their heels and getting pushed around. All’s well that ends well.

 

[d1042]

At least for one more season????

558 total yards

45 points against an SEC team

I am a fan

but it’s kinda fun? btw: a good SEC team, but hardly elite.

 

[NDblitz]

When you take in consideration the QB, the score, the clock, the down, and the way ND was running the football. That play call that produced the 100-yard pick 6 the other way, could be considered the worst play call in ND history.

That play call is an OC trying to show the world, how much offense he has in his bag, how smart he thinks is and valuing cute over sound fundamental complimentary football. Not to mention you have a Head Coach on the phones, who did not kill the play before it was sent in. Yes, ND showed great resiliency to bounce back and win the game. But I have to call into questions the judgement of Rees and Freeman. For green lighting and absolute disaster of a play call. Even if the result was a TD, it was still an absolutely horrendous play call. Both Freeman and Rees need to understand situational football and game management. Because both clearly DO NOT.

Yes. You get it. Situational football. Coaches blow it all the time there. Look at Harbaugh and the TOS in the 4th.

 

[thehellyousay]

I’d understand that call in the first quarter when the chess game is still on, but not in winning time when the defense is on their heels and getting pushed around. All’s well that ends well.

just saying it wasn't as heinous as it first appeared. would you rather give Buchner a throw on first down, when no one is expecting it, or 3rd down, when everyone is? personally, I don't trust Buchner to throw it in that situation, the way that he stares down receivers.

Rees was probably hoping for Buchner to take off running if nothing was there.

 

[graceh90]

just saying it wasn't as heinous as it first appeared. would you rather give Buchner a throw on first down, when no one is expecting it, or 3rd down, when everyone is? personally, I don't trust Buchner to throw it in that situation, the way that he stares down receivers.

Rees was probably hoping for Buchner to take off running if nothing was there.

It is absolutely as heinous as it first appeared, before it appeared and in perpetuity. Wrong call, wrong time.

No reason to throw the ball on any down at that point in the game

 

[savvyandsassier]

It is absolutely as heinous as it first appeared, before it appeared and in perpetuity. Wrong call, wrong time.

No reason to throw the ball on any down at that point in the game

Yeah well tons of teams do it. It's extremely common for football teams, on offense, to run a pass play, on any down, when they're inside the ten yard line. So I guess all coaches everywhere are heinous play-callers.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I’d understand that call in the first quarter when the chess game is still on, but not in winning time when the defense is on their heels and getting pushed around. All’s well that ends well.

You do understand at least what low-hanging fruit this is to complain so vociferously about, right? Like, overall, a fantastic performance pretty much from the entire offense. Everyone one was contributing, making plays, run, pass, fake punts, you name it. And everything seems like it's working. To the untrained eye it would appear to be a brilliantly called game.....

And one play, one single play, arguably, our OC should have made sure to prioritize ball security I guess, over anything else, run the ball three times, hope for the best, and then kick the FG. And because he failed to do that, and the worst happened, he is a garbage OC, and maybe he really ought to be fired. Even though what did the ND offense do after pick six but come right back march the field and score the game-winning TD without missing a beat.

Obviously Rees would have been disappointed with how that specific play transpired, and maybe even kicked himself for calling it in the first place. But aside from that, after that performance, it was cigars all around for the offensive staff.....

 

[Patrirish]

It is absolutely as heinous as it first appeared, before it appeared and in perpetuity. Wrong call, wrong time.

No reason to throw the ball on any down at that point in the game

Then how did ND score it’s last TD ?

 

[SouthFloridaIrish88]

OC's job is to put points on the board. Head Coaches job is to control the clock and make sure his team is playing sound situational and complimentary football.

Whether it was dropping back throwing 70 passes in the Fiesta Bowl. Or throwing that 1st down pass in 4th quarter of the Gator Bowl up 38-31. Rees job is score as many points as he can. It is Freeman's job to tell him, slow down, run the ball, and waste the clock.

A Head Coach listening to the play calls needs to consider
1. Personnel (ours and there's)
2. Field Position
3. Down & Distance
4. Score
4. Time Management
5. Weather Conditions

On the Gator Bowl 100-yard INT. ND had superior personnel dominating the LOS running, they had the ball inside the S Carolina 10-yard line, they were 1st & 10, they were up 1 score at 38-31, and there were just 8 minutes left in the game.

You could not have made a worse play call if you tried. Head Coach has to squash the sh@t immediately, and say I don't care what look you see, or who might be open. Turn around and hand the ball to Estime 3 times, bleed the clock. And if we can't punch it in. Kick the FG and go up 2 scores. 41-31

 

[d1042]

how did ND NOT rush for400 yds on USC? how? how? how?
Tulane has thrown 10 passes and 30 points, so far!

 

[ndnd]

Who would you replace him with, and at what cost ?

Notre Dame 1 is out of his mind - Tommy Rees is one of the most respected offensive minds in football . We will Be lucky to have him in the future because he has a great play calling abilities plus a great offensive system that dispute not having five stars at QB or receivers makes thing happen on offense . The guy imop is the best offensive coordinator in the business bar none !!!

 

[d1042]

Notre Dame 1 is out of his mind - Tommy Rees is one of the most respected offensive minds in football . We will Be lucky to have him in the future because he has a great play calling abilities plus a great offensive system that dispute not having five stars at QB or receivers makes thing happen on offense . The guy imop is the best offensive coordinator in the business bar none !!!

did you sell Manhattan for $22? geez! should have waited, you can get it for nothing now!

 

[Patrirish]

how did ND NOT rush for400 yds on USC? how? how? how?
Tulane has thrown 10 passes and 30 points, so far!

It’s a good question and a mystery

We also seem to have a problem with short yardage situations

 

[savvyandsassier]

Notre Dame 1 is out of his mind - Tommy Rees is one of the most respected offensive minds in football . We will Be lucky to have him in the future because he has a great play calling abilities plus a great offensive system that dispute not having five stars at QB or receivers makes thing happen on offense . The guy imop is the best offensive coordinator in the business bar none !!!

He is? Says who? Just because he's not the world's worst OC because of a single questionable play call, what makes this 30-year old punk one of the most respected offensive mind in football? What job has he ever had that he didn't owe entirely to either his personal mentor in BK, or to his alumni-obsessed alma mater ND? Does TR really even have his own playbook, or does he literally run BK's offense as his own?

So don't pump the brakes on those wild proclamations, slam on them.....

 

[thehellyousay]

It is absolutely as heinous as it first appeared, before it appeared and in perpetuity. Wrong call, wrong time.

No reason to throw the ball on any down at that point in the game

and they would have lost. Buchner threw for 274 yards and 3 TDs as well. including the game winner on 3rd and 7.

he also converted on 3rd and 5 on that last drive.

 

[Pennick4]

OC's job is to put points on the board. Head Coaches job is to control the clock and make sure his team is playing sound situational and complimentary football.

Whether it was dropping back throwing 70 passes in the Fiesta Bowl. Or throwing that 1st down pass in 4th quarter of the Gator Bowl up 38-31. Rees job is score as many points as he can. It is Freeman's job to tell him, slow down, run the ball, and waste the clock.

A Head Coach listening to the play calls needs to consider
1. Personnel (ours and there's)
2. Field Position
3. Down & Distance
4. Score
4. Time Management
5. Weather Conditions

On the Gator Bowl 100-yard INT. ND had superior personnel dominating the LOS running, they had the ball inside the S Carolina 10-yard line, they were 1st & 10, they were up 1 score at 38-31, and there were just 8 minutes left in the game.

You could not have made a worse play call if you tried. Head Coach has to squash the sh@t immediately, and say I don't care what look you see, or who might be open. Turn around and hand the ball to Estime 3 times, bleed the clock. And if we can't punch it in. Kick the FG and go up 2 scores. 41-31

More flatulence from you. Great job by offense ...players and staff.

 

[d1042]

Anyone watch the SC/Tulane game (Rees) - Tulane had the ball 20 mins and 11 secs: scored 46 points! Over 500yds tot offense! Ran for over 300 yds! What the heck was ND’s game plan!

 

[Patrirish]

Anyone watch the SC/Tulane game (Rees) - Tulane had the ball 20 mins and 11 secs: scored 46 points! Over 500yds tot offense! Ran for over 300 yds! What the heck was ND’s game plan!

Maybe it was perfect !

”Execution” still counts for something when you play football !

 

[Pennick4]

Anyone watch the SC/Tulane game (Rees) - Tulane had the ball 20 mins and 11 secs: scored 46 points! Over 500yds tot offense! Ran for over 300 yds! What the heck was ND’s game plan!

SC needs to re start housing for players parents.

 

[Get Nasty]

my issue with rees play calling is he goes full moron at critical times multiple times per
Game

My bigger issue is his handpicking 3 average at best qbs and then lack of development … book didn’t get better at all with him as qb coach for 2 years, Buchner hasn’t improved either

 

[IrishMike409]

Rees isn’t perfect, but it’s clear that there are times when his play-calling is absolute $$$$.

He’s still young, and will continue to get better. I think it would be really foolish to move on from Rees.

Do we have a Quarterbacks coach?

 

[Patrirish]

my issue with rees play calling is he goes full moron at critical times multiple times per
Game

My bigger issue is his handpicking 3 average at best qbs and then lack of development … book didn’t get better at all with him as qb coach for 2 years, Buchner hasn’t improved either

Why do you assume that Rees makes the ultimate decision on QB’s.

Book is the winningest QB in ND history !