Camping World Bowl Lose-Lose Situation for ND

[Catholicfan95]

i don't think it's a negative mentality providing my own personal experience in the area of discussion. i've said multiple times winning is always better than losing. i just don't think the outcome of the bowl game good or bad will impact the 2020 season at all.

Ya know, who is to say it will or it won't? I think that a win carries over and so would a loss, I think games matter and no bowl game to me is ever meaningless. In a year where we should be returning a lot of these guys back to the team why is it out of place to think that the bowl could add something to the off season? Personally I just get really tired of all this negativity on the board from people who have no facts or experience, it is all hot air from people who like to complain. Obviously it is not black or white and like I said who knows, I guess for me winning 11 games in back to back years is a great feat and it is absolutely something to play for. I mean we are graduating seniors now with 30 plus wins, I find that important as well.

 

[echowaker]

Ya know, who is to say it will or it won't? I think that a win carries over and so would a loss, I think games matter and no bowl game to me is ever meaningless. In a year where we should be returning a lot of these guys back to the team why is it out of place to think that the bowl could add something to the off season? Personally I just get really tired of all this negativity on the board from people who have no facts or experience, it is all hot air from people who like to complain. Obviously it is not black or white and like I said who knows, I guess for me winning 11 games in back to back years is a great feat and it is absolutely something to play for. I mean we are graduating seniors now with 30 plus wins, I find that important as well.

we'll agree to disagree on the importance of the outcome of the bowl game and how it may or may not impact 2020.

 

[chaseball]

F/+ does not hold any kind of relative data nor is it pertinent to analytical data used to ranked teams.

Do better.

What does this even mean dude?

Basically my oppositions entire arguments comes down to:

• ignoring good information/evidence/data that *clearly* indicates where the program sits in the hierarchy of college football
• trying to discredit me as bias or inconsistent
• just out right refusing to accept reality

But what you don't see is any good or credible rebuttals to the points being made...

Notre Dame is 16th in F/+ right now, 6 spots ahead of a "7 win team", and only a 4 point favorite. Hmmm...I wonder why? Maybe it's because there are way better stats/data/indicators at judging the quality of a football team than their W-L record? ... just maybe ... and those are the indicators/stats/data we should also be using to evaluate/judge the quality of the job the head coach is doing ... just maybe

 

[nemeth#5]

there are way better stats at judging the quality of a football team than just their W-L record? ... just maybe

I can agree with the highlighted sentence from your post..... but your FP+ is not a better way at judging teams than w/l record. It is deeply flawed, and the only reason you keep riding it is because ND is 'mediocre' in it.

 

[chaseball]

I can agree with the highlighted sentence from your post..... but your FP+ is not a better way at judging teams than w/l record. It is deeply flawed, and the only reason you keep riding it is because ND is 'mediocre' in it.

Ok then lets ignore the thousands of collective hours used to build/edit/revise the model over the last couple of decades by reputable statisticians/sabermetricians like Brian Fremeau (who by the way lives in South Bend and is an avid Notre Dame fan) and the creator of one half of the F/+ system .. and Bill Connelly a college football writer/analyst for ESPN who is responsible for the other half of the model and just take your word for it instead.

 

[nemeth#5]

Ok then lets ignore the thousands of collective hours used to build the model by reputable statisticians/sabermetricians in the advanced sports stats community like Brian Fremeau (who by the way lives in South Bend and is an avid Notre Dame fan) and the creator of one half of the F/+ system .. and Bill Connelly a college football writer/analyst for ESPN who is responsible for the other half of the model and just take your word for it instead.

ya.... who cares who made it and how many hours it took.... or where they live (creepy)... the fact that team A can convincingly beat team B and FP+ comes out and will rate team B higher literally proves that it is not a valid tool.

Dont 'take my word' (what word is that?), but lets use some common sense dude.

 

[Catholicfan95]

What does this even mean dude?

Basically my oppositions entire arguments comes down to:

• ignoring good information/evidence/data that *clearly* indicates where the program sits in the hierarchy of college football
• trying to discredit me as bias or inconsistent
• just out right refusing to accept reality

But what you don't see is any good or credible rebuttals to the points being made...

Notre Dame is 16th in F/+ right now, 6 spots ahead of a "7 win team", and only a 4 point favorite. Hmmm...I wonder why? Maybe it's because there are way better stats/data/indicators at judging the quality of a football team than their W-L record? ... just maybe ... and those are the indicators/stats/data we should also be using to evaluate/judge the quality of the job the head coach is doing ... just maybe

Did I say that the W/L is the only way to judge a team Chase?

What reality am I choosing to not accept?

Am I discrediting you on your bias or on the lack of pertinent data you presented?

Am I ignoring good information the "clearly" indicates where programs sit or am I ignoring the trash F/+ that has no clarity at all?

Really not sure you ever went to school. Your lack of understanding and comprehension is astonishingly low, and the fact that you continue to drive this ship is a travesty.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Ok then lets ignore the thousands of collective hours used to build/edit/revise the model over the last couple of decades by reputable statisticians/sabermetricians like Brian Fremeau (who by the way lives in South Bend and is an avid Notre Dame fan) and the creator of one half of the F/+ system .. and Bill Connelly a college football writer/analyst for ESPN who is responsible for the other half of the model and just take your word for it instead.

Who freaking cares how many decades they put into this thing, it still sucks! F/+ has absolutely zero credibility and anyone with their names attached to this should be sitting in a lab correcting it.

Sorry we are not on the forefront of the football universe like you and Doogie Howser.

 

[chaseball]

Who freaking cares how many decades they put into this thing, it still sucks! F/+ has absolutely zero credibility and anyone with their names attached to this should be sitting in a lab correcting it.

Sorry we are not on the forefront of the football universe like you and Doogie Howser.

Let me guess, you also think 99.9% of the climate science community is lying and you deny global warming is man made?

 

[Catholicfan95]

Let me guess, you also think 99.9% of the climate science community is lying and that climate change/global warming isn't man-made ?

Are we talking about football chase? Or are you deflecting the questions?

 

[Catholicfan95]

Let me guess, you also think 99.9% of the climate science community is lying and you deny global warming is man made?

Where does my stance on global warming come into play?

Are you going to ask me where I was on 9/11 next?

 

[amazingreis]

"no tangible proof it leads to success next season" Again, you have not been in a locker room to see that in fact there are things that players exhibit to prove this point.

"As I’ve said before, one could argue losing could add extra motivation.
It’s not being negative." That is not what is being discussed here at all. I mean not even close.

Also, I have zero problem with posters stating their opinions but when posters base their opinion off of assumptions and there are literally no facts that are stated to prove the point being made I am going to call BS.

What facts have you provided other than saying you were in a locker room once upon a time.

 

[amazingreis]

Ya know, who is to say it will or it won't? I think that a win carries over and so would a loss, I think games matter and no bowl game to me is ever meaningless. In a year where we should be returning a lot of these guys back to the team why is it out of place to think that the bowl could add something to the off season? Personally I just get really tired of all this negativity on the board from people who have no facts or experience, it is all hot air from people who like to complain. Obviously it is not black or white and like I said who knows, I guess for me winning 11 games in back to back years is a great feat and it is absolutely something to play for. I mean we are graduating seniors now with 30 plus wins, I find that important as well.

Now you’re saying exactly what I said though I’m sure you’ll disagree.
I said winning is better than losing obviously. Only point is nobody knows whether it equals more wins next year.
Also, these second tier bowl games mean even less than they did 10-20 years ago. It’s about playoffs and championships more than ever. Players sit them out, etc

Not sure how that’s being negative.

 

[Pennick4]

Who freaking cares how many decades they put into this thing, it still sucks! F/+ has absolutely zero credibility and anyone with their names attached to this should be sitting in a lab correcting it.

Sorry we are not on the forefront of the football universe like you and Doogie Howser.

Post of the month!

 

[Clonewithasigh]

Notre Dame takes this one in a laugher, 55-0.

Cool, I will take half that for 5K Alex

 

[Catholicfan95]

Now you’re saying exactly what I said though I’m sure you’ll disagree.
I said winning is better than losing obviously. Only point is nobody knows whether it equals more wins next year.
Also, these second tier bowl games mean even less than they did 10-20 years ago. It’s about playoffs and championships more than ever. Players sit them out, etc

Not sure how that’s being negative.

Couldn't care less about what you have to say honestly dude, and neither to half these other posters. You're not apart of the conversation because your input is poor and no one like engaging with you.

 

[tbonesays]

Please tell us then, what does a win over a 5 loss(would be 6 loss) team in the Camper bowl mean? It’s not a major bowl, ISU is not an elite team, and I doubt many people (outside of the 2 fan bases) will even care to watch the game.

It's getting a bit of attention on Big12 boards. Traditionally ISU aspired to 6-but recently has become a trap game, or maybe even a noted game, for OU/TX. They see the middle bowls as a way to evaluate the strength of the conference.

 

[HarlemIrish]

"Listen I'm a realist" Is this suppose to be some crowning achievement for people on here? You do not know if there is any correlation with winning a bowl game and it translating into success for next year because you have not been in a locker room in which that has taken place. You have not seen what winning does in the off season, how there are tangible things that players exhibit after winning. So what you are really saying is "I am formulating my opinion based off of absolutely nothing but I am a realist and that counts for something. In fact it counts for something in such a way that I will laugh at this poster for not sharing the same view point as me HAHA". Sad.

See, here is the problem. You are not a realist, despite your best efforts to be one you are not. You have no knowledge on what, how or why winning carries over so how can you come to the conclusion that there is no correlation between winning a bowl game and next seasons success? Being a realist is basing an opinion on facts and since you have no facts it is impossible for you to claim yourself as a realist. You are just a negative. If anything you have a pessimistic outlook which in no way makes you a realists, it just makes you opinionated.

How was the season after the Aloha Bowl? Clausen looked like Drew Brees last night. Where was the carry over effect? I want the Irish to win for one big reason. The seniors who had a terrible freshman season and came back to knock off 30 plus wins.

 

[amazingreis]

Couldn't care less about what you have to say honestly dude, and neither to half these other posters. You're not apart of the conversation because your input is poor and no one like engaging with you.

Wow, said like a true gentleman....
Anyone who disagrees with your posture and is labeled not worthy of posting.
So pompous...

 

[Catholicfan95]

How was the season after the Aloha Bowl? Clausen looked like Drew Brees last night. Where was the carry over effect? I want the Irish to win for one big reason. The seniors who had a terrible freshman season and came back to knock off 30 plus wins.

I get it, and you make good points.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Wow, said like a true gentleman....
Anyone who disagrees with your posture and is labeled not worthy of posting.
So pompous...

Nailed it right on the head!

 

[tbonesays]

I get it, and you make good points.

Every anti-bowl point could be said about 3/4ths of the schedule. Playing BC has no real effect on whether the Irish win next year