Bye Week

[Golson5]

We've seen receivers open downfield all season long, and RL had hit on less than a handful. The rest he either didn't see them, or was inaccurate. That's the reality. It's not an obsession. I'm pointing out ND's weakness. A playoff team will be able to limit this offense. ND's only hope will be the defense, which I'm full confident in.

You point out NDs weakness but you never mention the OL

So we should stop there because if you can't mention that at all, you know a person is biased from the jump.

So no need to keep talking back and forth about it when there is an obvious bias in discussion

 

[echowaker]

It does when we are discussing how far this team can go with him, and Golson5's proclamations that he is a 1st round talent.

No QB on the team can take the team further than a healthy Leonard can in the way the offense is constructed. He is best suited to run it. It really is that simple.

 

[echowaker]

The talent is subpar but the coaching has been excellent once we fix the talent side of the equation Notre Dame will finally be able to graduate from the second tier

That's an idiotic take.

 

[Golson5]

The talent is subpar but the coaching has been excellent once we fix the talent side of the equation Notre Dame will finally be able to graduate from the second tier

Bull shit subpar. Only a fool would make that comment. If you watch the team, even after all the injuries and say it's subpar, you know you're a troll

 

[NDinNJ]

No QB on the team can take the team further than a healthy Leonard can in the way the offense is constructed. He is best suited to run it. It really is that simple.

and you know this how? because the coaches are starting RL? Coaches can be wrong.

 

[chaseball]

No QB on the team can take the team further than a healthy Leonard can in the way the offense is constructed. He is best suited to run it. It really is that simple.

I agree with this completely

This offense is constructed around Riley Leonard's skill set and the skill set of the strengths and weaknesses of the players on the offense a whole. What you see is what you get. A good downhill running team with limitations -- significant ones -- in the most important part of a football team: the passing game

The only way this team wins as constructed with this offense is if their defense remains dominant I'm just not convinced that it will as the competition gets much stiffer in the postseason especially when you consider the injuries at already thin and critical positions

 

[banmate6]

No it's because you're obsessed with me that you keep bringing it up

You keep mentioning top 10 teams. These are possible Playoff teams

Miami
Iowa state
Byu
Boise
Texas am
Indiana
K state

We can beat and score on any of those teams

There's others that are either not great on Defense that are Playoff type teams or that we can beat like Ped State, Clemson, LSU, Ole Miss.

We need to get into the Playoff first. Win out and there are plenty of matchups out there for us that we can win and advance

Good overall post.

I agree on the 1st slew of teams.

I'm not sure on the 2nd...the burden of proof is on ND and MF there...but I think the Irish will get that chance by running the table and making the playoffs...at this point.

Don't get me wrong, as it's not a big gap...but I worry about ND suffering against stronger opponents challenging RL to go deep.

 

[banmate6]

I missed most of the third quarter, but for the first half boy, we were carving them up! It seemed like, what do they call that, a 'masterclass', of how to scheme effectively around a shitty-passing dual threat QB, and not let it ruin your season. I feel like Denbrock is like a wizard. I wasn't it expecting to require such delicate play-calling, if you will, but it turns out it does, on account of RL's erratic downfield passing, and yet that's exactly what we're doing. Maximizing our capabilities, good play calls, timely play calls and where we could by totally stymieing ourselves with exasperating incomplete passes downfield that cost us points, instead we're comfortably cruising past a totally decent team like GT.

So while I personally do appreciate and enjoy an expansive passing offense, can't complain too much about what we're accomplishing. This is two weeks in a row where we're rolling, almost with contemptuous ease. And it's the offense almost that's carrying us. And RL still got away with throwing a ridiculous interception, on a totally inaccurate downfield throw.

I agree with your points.

But I think MF and Denbrock have been too slow to adapt this kind of game plan...it proved costly in losing to NIU...I still think they should have been more knowledgeable about what RL can and cannot do.

I still appreciate that they apparently are making the adjustments here. If the OL can continue to solidify, ND can be that much more formidable. We have ups and downs following the Irish...but right now I really believe they run the table and probably get the playoff, although this depends on too many variables right now.

I still think ND needs style points. You never know...although in 12 teams playoff the ND brand adds weight.

 

[IrishMike409]

Not with a QB that hasn't shown he can throw farther than 10 yards with accuracy and stretch the field. If anything the defense will carry this team farther, the offense currently is a liability.

7 teams listed. 1 we beat at their house, and really controlled that game.

I think we can certainly handle the other 6. OL has to get healthy, and hopefully even improve a bit.

The youngsters on D are going to keep getting better and better every week.

If RL just protects the football, then we can beat anyone in the country, on a neutral field, aside from maybe 5 or 6 teams. That gives us a real shot to get to the semis, if we get decent matchups.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I missed most of the third quarter, but for the first half boy, we were carving them up! It seemed like, what do they call that, a 'masterclass', of how to scheme effectively around a shitty-passing dual threat QB, and not let it ruin your season. I feel like Denbrock is like a wizard. I wasn't it expecting to require such delicate play-calling, if you will, but it turns out it does, on account of RL's erratic downfield passing, and yet that's exactly what we're doing. Maximizing our capabilities, good play calls, timely play calls and where we could by totally stymieing ourselves with exasperating incomplete passes downfield that cost us points, instead we're comfortably cruising past a totally decent team like GT.

So while I personally do appreciate and enjoy an expansive passing offense, can't complain too much about what we're accomplishing. This is two weeks in a row where we're rolling, almost with contemptuous ease. And it's the offense almost that's carrying us. And RL still got away with throwing a ridiculous interception, on a totally inaccurate downfield throw.

Perhaps I am in the minority here, but I see Riley Leonard's passing game as being very much a work in progress. He has gotten better as the season has progressed. He was really sharp in the second and third quarters against GT, but not as sharp in the fourth quarter. Perhaps that was just a byproduct of the lopsided score. Too many of his critics here seem to forget that RL missed spring practice because of his ankle injury, and probably wasn't fully 100% by the time summer practices rolled around. It is a big ask for a player coming into a new system with new coaches to look like Patrick Mahomes right out of the box. Yes, his accuracy has been suspect at times, especially on intermediate and deep routes, but the optimist in me says that will improve over the course of the season, and hopefully by playoff time--and yes, I think we will be there--he will be better. Will he be good enough to beat a really good D when we are down a couple of scores and need to throw the ball to get back into it? I don't know, but I am not writing him off, as many here seem to be doing. He's got some mojo and intangibles to him, and he seems to be a natural leader. Our OL play has to get better as well, in both the running game and pass protection. The NFL keeps a statistic with the running game that says how many yards a runner goes before the first contact. From my observations, we are not doing very good there. If we could give Love and Price some more room to run, that would take some pressure off the passing game. Too often the first contact comes in the backfield or at the LOS. Both Love and Price are dynamic backs and a home run waiting to happen, but the mediocre job our OL is doing in opening holes for them makes it tough.

Regarding the interception RL threw against GT, I will have to go back and rewatch the game, but it looked like Beaux Collins may have quit on the route, which made the interception look worse than perhaps it was.

 

[BGI User 756]

You make a really good point about the injuries theyve really piled up and Notre Dame keeps producing like a top 10 team anyway.

Because MF is bringing in talent and we have good coaching

 

[banmate6]

Perhaps I am in the minority here, but I see Riley Leonard's passing game as being very much a work in progress. He has gotten better as the season has progressed. He was really sharp in the second and third quarters against GT, but not as sharp in the fourth quarter. Perhaps that was just a byproduct of the lopsided score. Too many of his critics here seem to forget that RL missed spring practice because of his ankle injury, and probably wasn't fully 100% by the time summer practices rolled around. It is a big ask for a player coming into a new system with new coaches to look like Patrick Mahomes right out of the box. Yes, his accuracy has been suspect at times, especially on intermediate and deep routes, but the optimist in me says that will improve over the course of the season, and hopefully by playoff time--and yes, I think we will be there--he will be better. Will he be good enough to beat a really good D when we are down a couple of scores and need to throw the ball to get back into it? I don't know, but I am not writing him off, as many here seem to be doing. He's got some mojo and intangibles to him, and he seems to be a natural leader. Our OL play has to get better as well, in both the running game and pass protection. The NFL keeps a statistic with the running game that says how many yards a runner goes before the first contact. From my observations, we are not doing very good there. If we could give Love and Price some more room to run, that would take some pressure off the passing game. Too often the first contact comes in the backfield or at the LOS. Both Love and Price are dynamic backs and a home run waiting to happen, but the mediocre job our OL is doing in opening holes for them makes it tough.

Regarding the interception RL threw against GT, I will have to go back and rewatch the game, but it looked like Beaux Collins may have quit on the route, which made the interception look worse than perhaps it was.

A lot to digest...I'm not trying to be too simple, but RL was supposed to be a complete QB, not a work in progress.

The process of acquiring, developing, and game planning this QB has not at all been ideal.

Fortunately, ND has enough quality and a softer schedule to progressively get better and probably make the playoffs.

Still: MF should be better in evaluating this.

 

[Golson5]

A lot to digest...I'm not trying to be too simple, but RL was supposed to be a complete QB, not a work in progress.

The process of acquiring, developing, and game planning this QB has not at all been ideal.

Fortunately, ND has enough quality and a softer schedule to progressively get better and probably make the playoffs.

Still: MF should be better in evaluating this.

He was never considered a complete QB. He did not have top level accuracy. He always was going to be needed to be developed more

He was a very good runner and athlete and tools to be developed into a top QB.

We have seen a lot of both of that

He's played well but not good enough yet. If the OL can improve some and solidify, we can keep improving our passing offense.

Keep improving. Keep winning

 

[NDinNJ]

No it's because you're obsessed with me that you keep bringing it up

You keep mentioning top 10 teams. These are possible Playoff teams

Miami
Iowa state
Byu
Boise
Texas am
Indiana
K state

We can beat and score on any of those teams

There's others that are either not great on Defense that are Playoff type teams or that we can beat like Ped State, Clemson, LSU, Ole Miss.

We need to get into the Playoff first. Win out and there are plenty of matchups out there for us that we can win and advance

Of the teams you mentioned, if the season ended today based on current rankings. only three teams you mentioned would be in the playoffs
Miami
ISU
BYU
ND as an #11 seeded team would play either Ohio State, or Tennessee on the road. Until those other teams are actually in the top 10 I suggest you leave them off your list. So convenientt you exclude the other 7 teams in the top 10 to support your false narrative.

 

[Golson5]

Of the teams you mentioned, if the season ended today based on current rankings. All but three teams would be in the playoffs
Miami
ISU
BYU
ND as an #11 seeded team would play either Ohio State, or Tennessee on the road.

I said possible teams. And you forgot Boise and Ped State. You know it's early and there will movement, right? Or do you think this ranking will hold throughout lol?

And it would be between Ped State, Ohio state and Texas. Not Tenn. And I would like our chances vs pedo st. I wouldn't against the other 2.

It's all about matchups. Of the teams you mentioned I would like our chances vs Iowa st Byu Miami Tenn. You also forgot Pedo and Boise. I'd like our chances against them as well

Not saying we would win all those games but we would be live in all

 

[NDinNJ]

I said possible teams. And you forgot Boise and Ped State. You know it's early and there will movement, right? Or do you think this ranking will hold throughout lol?

And it would be between Ped State, Ohio state and Texas. Not Tenn. And I would like our chances vs pedo st. I wouldn't against the other 2.

It's all about matchups. Of the teams you mentioned I would like our chances vs Iowa st Byu Miami Tenn. You also forgot Pedo and Boise. I'd like our chances against them as well

Not saying we would win all those games but we would be live in all

But currently they are all outside the top 10 except for ISu, BYU and Miami.

If the season ended as is today this would be the rankings based off of cfp playoff structure:
Oregon BIG 10 champ
UGA SEC Champ
Miami ACC champ
ISU BIG12 champ
PSU drops to 5 and plays the G5 team at the 12 spot
#11 ND draws #6 Ohio State at Ohio State

Again that's if the season ended today. Obviously that will change, but to assume IU, Kansas State, Texas A&M will be in the top 10 when they aren't is dumb.

 

[Golson5]

But currently they are all outside the top 10 except for ISu, BYU and Miami.

If the season ended as is today this would be the rankings based off of cfp playoff structure:
Oregon BIG 10 champ
UGA SEC Champ
Miami ACC champ
ISU BIG12 champ
PSU drops to 5 and plays the G5 team at the 12 spot
#11 ND draws #6 Ohio State at Ohio State

Again that's if the season ended today. Obviously that will change, but to assume IU, Kansas State, Texas A&M will be in the top 10 when they aren't is dumb.

Ped State is not outside the top 10. They are in the top 5. Boise would be the highest non p4 school so they would be in. Tenn is in the top 10. LSU is in the top 10

So that's 6 teams we could beat that would be in right now

Miami
Iowa state
Pedo State
Tenn
Boise
LSU

BYU would not be right now. But if you want to count them that's 7 matchups that we would be right there and absolutely live. Half we would be the favorite over to me

 

[NDinNJ]

Ped State is not outside the top 10. They are in the top 5. Boise would be the highest non p4 school so they would be in. Tenn is in the top 10. LSU is in the top 10

So that's 6 teams we could beat that would be in right now

Miami
Iowa state
Pedo State
Tenn
Boise
LSU

BYU would not be right now. But if you want to count them that's 7 matchups that we would be right there and absolutely live. Half we would be the favorite over to me

If ND is ranked #11 they are playing the 6 seed, which if the season ended today, would be Ohio State.

As for beating any of those teams your assumption is based on what exactly? ND has the worst loss (NIU) of all the teams in the top 10.

 

[Pennick4]

Not with a QB that hasn't shown he can throw farther than 10 yards with accuracy and stretch the field. If anything the defense will carry this team farther, the offense currently is a liability.

He has been playing really well the last few weeks. Are you related to Angeli? I didn't want the team to go to the portal again but Leonard gives this team a dimension that is tough to defense.

 

[Golson5]

If ND is ranked #11 they are playing the 6 seed, which if the season ended today, would be Ohio State.

As for beating any of those teams your assumption is based on what exactly? ND has the worst loss (NIU) of all the teams in the top 10.

If we are 11 and 1 we won't be ranked 11th and by that time OSU most likely won't be 6th. So to pinpoint a ranking matchup right now is just silly

That's why I tried to have a rational conversation of who the opponents might be. Not focus on one singular opponent when we both know the rankings will change every single week

My assumption is we can beat any of those teams. Never said they will.

And my assumption is based on knowing the season isn't 1 game. We've played 7 games and have 5 more.

We have a better win than most of that whole top 12 at this moment. That's more important than who had the worst loss. It's who can you beat

 

[NDinNJ]

He has been playing really well the last few weeks. Are you related to Angeli? I didn't want the team to go to the portal again but Leonard gives this team a dimension that is tough to defense.

Yes he has, but this team was supposed challenge and go deep into the playoffs, as it stands now they need to win out to even make the playoffs. They most likely will due to the schedule, but I'm realistic, this team isn't going to go deep into the playoffs. Posters on this forum were touting RL as a first round NFL talent. 1st round NFL talent can throw vertical and stretch the field with accuracy, he hasn't shown that, and is therefore a disappointment. Top 10 teams are going to be able to limit this offense and this will put a lot of pressure on the defense. The defense is championship level, the offense is not even a Top 10 offense. You need both to challenge for a championship.

 

[Golson5]

Yes he has, but this team was supposed challenge and go deep into the playoffs, as it stands now they need to win out to even make the playoffs. They most likely will due to the schedule, but I'm realistic, this team isn't going to go deep into the playoffs. Posters on this forum were touting RL as a first round NFL talent. 1st round NFL talent can throw vertical and stretch the field with accuracy, he hasn't shown that, and is therefore a disappointment. Top 10 teams are going to be able to limit this offense and this will put a lot of pressure on the defense. The defense is championship level, the offense is not even a Top 10 offense. You need both to challenge for a championship.

If the team makes the Playoffs, the main reason they won't advance deep in it is because of all the injuries, not the QB

 

[Pennick4]

Yes he has, but this team was supposed challenge and go deep into the playoffs, as it stands now they need to win out to even make the playoffs. They most likely will due to the schedule, but I'm realistic, this team isn't going to go deep into the playoffs. Posters on this forum were touting RL as a first round NFL talent. 1st round NFL talent can throw vertical and stretch the field with accuracy, he hasn't shown that, and is therefore a disappointment. Top 10 teams are going to be able to limit this offense and this will put a lot of pressure on the defense. The defense is championship level, the offense is not even a Top 10 offense. You need both to challenge for a championship.

Only remember 1 poster claiming he had 1st round talent. This team has been decimated by injuries and is still fighting hard and winning. Enjoy the ride.
I wouldn't bet against ND winning at least 1 game in the Playoffs.

 

[NDinNJ]

Only remember 1 poster claiming he had 1st round talent. This team has been decimated by injuries and is still fighting hard and winning. Enjoy the ride.
I wouldn't bet against ND winning at least 1 game in the Playoffs.

I agree. I hope they defy the odds and win it all.

 

[NDinNJ]

If the team makes the Playoffs, the main reason they won't advance deep in it is because of all the injuries, not the QB

Not true. the line has been improving. The injuries on the defensive side of the ball hurt, but the younger guys are really stepping up. Golden and the staff have the defense playing at an elite level.

 

[Golson5]

Not true. the line has been improving. The injuries on the defensive side of the ball hurt, but the younger guys are really stepping up. Golden and the staff have the defense playing at an elite level.

Has been improving slightly. They are playing okay. Not playing near a top 10 line what you say about the QB.

The defense hasn't gone against a top offense without Morrison yet. And if we play a top OL it will be hard to pressure the QB without Traore and Botelho

 

[savvyandsassier]

Perhaps I am in the minority here, but I see Riley Leonard's passing game as being very much a work in progress. He has gotten better as the season has progressed. He was really sharp in the second and third quarters against GT, but not as sharp in the fourth quarter. Perhaps that was just a byproduct of the lopsided score. Too many of his critics here seem to forget that RL missed spring practice because of his ankle injury, and probably wasn't fully 100% by the time summer practices rolled around. It is a big ask for a player coming into a new system with new coaches to look like Patrick Mahomes right out of the box. Yes, his accuracy has been suspect at times, especially on intermediate and deep routes, but the optimist in me says that will improve over the course of the season, and hopefully by playoff time--and yes, I think we will be there--he will be better. Will he be good enough to beat a really good D when we are down a couple of scores and need to throw the ball to get back into it? I don't know, but I am not writing him off, as many here seem to be doing. He's got some mojo and intangibles to him, and he seems to be a natural leader. Our OL play has to get better as well, in both the running game and pass protection. The NFL keeps a statistic with the running game that says how many yards a runner goes before the first contact. From my observations, we are not doing very good there. If we could give Love and Price some more room to run, that would take some pressure off the passing game. Too often the first contact comes in the backfield or at the LOS. Both Love and Price are dynamic backs and a home run waiting to happen, but the mediocre job our OL is doing in opening holes for them makes it tough.

Regarding the interception RL threw against GT, I will have to go back and rewatch the game, but it looked like Beaux Collins may have quit on the route, which made the interception look worse than perhaps it was.

Well I'm not writing him off either, he's obviously our guy. And as long as we got this nice little offense we got going, we're doing great, and he's doing great. I guess just by not asking him to do what he's probably not going to be able to do, and shooting ourselves in the foot. And so you gotta have some subtlety as the OC, and know which buttons to push and when, and we're doing it. That one little pass to the frosh RB was a good example. Pretty simple little play, but it seemed like it typified the offense and its quiet efficiency. And everything seems to be flowing. We're not a juggernaut, but we're definitely effective. And if he improves, and sort of gets over a hump at some point and starts stepping into some bigger throws with some rhythm and consistency and confidence, all the better...

 

[savvyandsassier]

A lot to digest...I'm not trying to be too simple, but RL was supposed to be a complete QB, not a work in progress.

The process of acquiring, developing, and game planning this QB has not at all been ideal.

Fortunately, ND has enough quality and a softer schedule to progressively get better and probably make the playoffs.

Still: MF should be better in evaluating this.

I suppose. But what else were we supposed to do? I guess we could have not chosen RL, that would be one thing. I don't remember who else was on offer. I was definitely under the impression he was a questionable passer, I just didn't know it was quite this bad. I'm just glad we got Denbrock. I believe he came on board after RL signed on, and had nothing to do with it. And it was just good fortune, to be well suited to work with a distinctly dual threat and true running QB. Could you imagine if it were old boy still here, now improbably enough HC at Troy St.? I bet you things would be worse if that's how it had played out.

 

[NDinNJ]

Has been improving slightly. They are playing okay. Not playing near a top 10 line what you say about the QB.

The defense hasn't gone against a top offense without Morrison yet. And if we play a top OL it will be hard to pressure the QB without Traore and Botelho

The offense hasn't been really tested yet either, but the defense has been dominating, the offense has not outside of Purdue.

 

[Golson5]

The offense hasn't been really tested yet either, but the defense has been dominating, the offense has not outside of Purdue.

And Stanford

 

[PHJIndy]

I agree with this completely

This offense is constructed around Riley Leonard's skill set and the skill set of the strengths and weaknesses of the players on the offense a whole. What you see is what you get. A good downhill running team with limitations -- significant ones -- in the most important part of a football team: the passing game

The only way this team wins as constructed with this offense is if their defense remains dominant I'm just not convinced that it will as the competition gets much stiffer in the postseason especially when you consider the injuries at already thin and critical positions

What you really mean is, the offense is built around RL's inability to throw an accurate long pass.