Book to return it appears
- Thread starter napy2121
- Start date
And I wanted Phil to get more PT even with his inability to throw a spiral on command.
Phil doesn’t have to be all world this spring game but it’s huge for him.
PJ was a top 100 and the #5 rated QB coming out of that class nationally. Again it goes back to development when they get to the next level. This is just another of many examples of BK failing to develop QB’s. It’s been like this his entire tenure.
In comparison Dwayne Haskins was top 100 and #5 rated QB coming out of his class. He lit it up. Development.
Joe Burrow wasn’t even in the top 100 and was the #24 rated QB coming out of his class. Won the Heisman. Give credit to Urban for developing him at OSU.
Right....if you're going by recruiting rankings.
What a great job the coaches are doing with Book. 3 star with average talent threw for 35 TDs
Cant have it both ways. They developed a 3 star but you're saying they cant develop a 4 star in Phil. Makes no sense
This is laughable. Did you not watch the Michigan and UGA games? Or the Clemson game in 2018?
You think Book would light it up like Burrow did against Bama, Auburn, Florida, and UGA?
You clearly don’t understand QB development. Look at Books numbers vs UGA compared to Burrow. It’s not even close. I’m not knocking Book, I’m knocking the coaches development of Book.
No I dont think Book would light them up. Book is an average talent at QB. And our skill players arent at the level of LSU
What the coaches have got out of an undersized 3 star qb with an average arm and average talent is impressive.
You are blaming the coaches. Im saying they have gotten a lot out of a solid but not overly talented QB.
We disagree
Again laughable, you discount ratings and rankings when it works against you, but embrace them when you try to make a point about LSU having better skill players.
Burrow was also an average talent coming out of high school. In fact, Book was rated higher coming out of high school. Yet Burrow managed to win the Heisman. You can’t say coaching/development had nothing to do with that, when in fact it was the most impactful.
Burrow > Book because of better coaching.
If you put Book on LSU this year, he doesn’t have anywhere near the numbers Burrow has, and LSU probably loses 2 games. Again it comes down to development. Burrow was developed by elite coaching, Book was developed by 2nd tier coaching.
Last edited:
I brought this up on the pay sight. Even the editor of B&G laughed at you and your notion that PJ couldn't throw a spiral.
I dont discount rankings and ratings, you had nothing else to say so you just made that up?
LSU does have better skill players. Nothing else to say here. Thats obvious
Burrow has been helped tremendously by a great system. Never said otherwise.
Burrow is in a better system. When did I say he wasnt? But Burrow is more talented than Book too. Better size 6'4" compared to 6'1" maybe 6'. Better arm talent for sure.
Burrow was developed this year better than any QB in the country. Doesnt mean we are doing a bad job with Book. Far from it.
Really happy having Ian back next year; we should win a lot of games. He could become ND's winningest quarterback with a 10 or more win season. I think Ian's a lot better than given credit because OMG he was only given 3 stars coming out of HS! The only stat that matters is 20-3. His coach went 23-8 at ND. I have no doubt that BK would yank Ian in a heartbeat, if he thought PJ or any other QB gave ND a better shot at winning. He has a long track record of doing just that folks.
Big difference between can’t throw a spiral and struggles to throw a spiral on shorter passes. If the editor of B&G thinks Phil spins it, you should ask for refund.
I think both Ian and Phil should shut out the noise. Noise from people who don't have their best interest at heart. Destructive noise. Their family, coaches and teammates are what matters. Ian and Phil should stay off this message board. It's absolutely no good for them. It's Tom Rees time now to develop these QBs. They come in as three and four stars and leave as five stars.
"You have to be able to throw a spiral to be a qb in a offense that throws a good bit."
"wanted Phil to get more PT even with his inability to throw a spiral on command".
Your words not mine. But hey, we all got a chuckle so thanks for that!
it is only that fans exist that makes football scholarships available
Fans=interest=$
So fans are not necessarily ‘evil’! Well, maybe a necessary’evil’.
But one of the questions was, "So after HS he just forgot how to throw a spiral?" What is your response to that? Oh and I will ask those who do have limited access to practices, because they are generally private, about your BS that he can't throw in practice. There are probably many reasons why he didn't get more playing time but not your bs about being able to "spin", the ball lol
Last edited:
Hmmm here's yet another video of PJ throwing short pass with tight spirals. Are you really going to keep on this narrative? Are you one that just cannot admit when they are wrong and just keep looking like a fool?
http://www.cbssports.com/general/video/a1c9adb3-39f2-4afc-aed6-7bddc8bd9c32
Last edited:
Some people are just foolish and cannot see through their own delusional bias. Saying PJ forgot how to throw a football is hilarious!
The comments about Phil not being able to spin it are ludicrous. This is just the Pro Kelly and Book camp making more excuses for the lack of development at the QB position. Knock the kid that’s supposed to be much better, to justify BK’s choice to stick with Book, because he can’t develop QB’s.
And if this was true about Phil, that’s even more proof BK can’t develop QB’s. He could spin it in HS, but now at ND he can’t? Lol what a joke.
And if this was true about Phil, that’s even more proof BK can’t develop QB’s. He could spin it in HS, but now at ND he can’t? Lol what a joke.
patirish.... please inform this poster I’m not in the love book camp... yet I acknowledge Phil’s trouble spinning it
It’s never been a bash either, it’s calling out obvious deficiencies with both.
“If you put Book on LSU this year, he doesn’t have anywhere near the numbers Burrow has, and LSU probably loses 2 games. Again it comes down to development. Burrow was developed by elite coaching, Book was developed by 2nd tier coaching.”
Pure conjecture on your part but w/ that said, I don’t think book is as good as burrow. But that’s really not saying anything negative about book. Burrow arguably just had the best season a qb has ever had in the history of college football. Swap teams and book lights it up. Does he light it up to the level of burrow? I’d say no, but he’s still put up huge numbers. Book’s been really good but the over scrutiny on this board and from some of the jag off beat writers w/ an agenda know no bounds.
Pure conjecture on your part but w/ that said, I don’t think book is as good as burrow. But that’s really not saying anything negative about book. Burrow arguably just had the best season a qb has ever had in the history of college football. Swap teams and book lights it up. Does he light it up to the level of burrow? I’d say no, but he’s still put up huge numbers. Book’s been really good but the over scrutiny on this board and from some of the jag off beat writers w/ an agenda know no bounds.
So, if Ian and/or Phil is the QB at LSU or Clemson, all their bad habits and issues that we have been hearing about over and over, all season long on this board, would suddenly disappear? Would Burrow or Lawrence make Finke , Kmet, or Claypool better without the benefit of a servicable running game? What if we trade OCs? Would that make Ian better, despite his perceived flaws? Would LSU still be in the title game with Tom/Chip calling the plays? It's all very magical to contemplate the "what ifs". It's all conjecture of the highest order, but fun to discuss at your local tavern.
Im not knocking Book either, I’m knocking his lack of development by the coaching staff. My point is Burrow was a very low rated 3 star coming out HS. Yet developed into a Heisman winner.
I also believe the reverse would be true. If Burrow had signed with ND, he would be no where near where he is now. That’s coaching and it’s why the elite skill players are choosing to go elsewhere.
First time Kelly was able to sign a top 100 running back, receiver, and tight end in the same class. The fact that it took him 10 years to accomplish this speaks volumes! Take your blinders off. Kelly is not even close to being an elite coach and he will never be.
I agree hes not. There is 3 elite coaches. Saban Meyer Dabo
Kelly is in the next tier.
Take your hater douche glasses off and realize the truth
Thanks for showing me just how mediocre you are
Kelly is in the third tier, behind Day, Smart, Riley, Orgeron, and as much as I hate to say it, Harbaugh. Results prove this.
Last edited:
I think you are leaving out a lot of really good coaches all who have had a lot of success for big time programs or produced results above a program's baseline. I think a lot of these coaches could possibly replicate Brian Kelly's run at ND if not supersede it.
Coaches like James Franklin, Mario Cristobal, Paul Cryst, Josh Huepel, Matt Rhule, PJ Fleck, Les Miles, Kirk Ferentz, Jimbo Fisher, Chip Kelly, Scott Frost, Mack Brown, Matt Campbell, Gus Malzahn, Mike Leach, Dan Mullen, Chris Petersen, Mike Gundy, Gary Patterson, Kyle Whittingham, etc. etc.
Point here if you make adjustment for the prestige of the program those coaches are coaching at I'd probably rank Brian Kelly's success somewhere in the middle .. probably in the mid to low teens somewhere.
Last edited:
“What’s the agenda? Winning big games?”
Depends on who you’re talking about. Some of the recruitnik beat writers that live and die w/ star rankings and measurables have a tougher time being complimentary of the lower ranked players, that’s just they way it is. Even after they exceed expectations, their egos can’t allow them to be totally objective. As for the big game comment, I’m assuming you’re talking about the three losses. In two of those losses (Clemson & Michigan) the entire offense was awful (& one was in a monsoon). In the other loss (Georgia), book played well enough to win and had one mistake on a busted trick play when the safety made an incredible play (& had finke come back to the ball, it would’ve been a harmless incompletion at worst). The other int was the most pivotal play of all and that was clearly on finke. So why do badger book more so than other spots on offense when those losses were either shared by all (Clemson & Michigan) or not all book’s fault (Georgia)?
Depends on who you’re talking about. Some of the recruitnik beat writers that live and die w/ star rankings and measurables have a tougher time being complimentary of the lower ranked players, that’s just they way it is. Even after they exceed expectations, their egos can’t allow them to be totally objective. As for the big game comment, I’m assuming you’re talking about the three losses. In two of those losses (Clemson & Michigan) the entire offense was awful (& one was in a monsoon). In the other loss (Georgia), book played well enough to win and had one mistake on a busted trick play when the safety made an incredible play (& had finke come back to the ball, it would’ve been a harmless incompletion at worst). The other int was the most pivotal play of all and that was clearly on finke. So why do badger book more so than other spots on offense when those losses were either shared by all (Clemson & Michigan) or not all book’s fault (Georgia)?
“Im not knocking Book either, I’m knocking his lack of development by the coaching staff. My point is Burrow was a very low rated 3 star coming out HS. Yet developed into a Heisman winner.
I also believe the reverse would be true. If Burrow had signed with ND, he would be no where near where he is now. That’s coaching and it’s why the elite skill players are choosing to go elsewhere.”
Fair points but book has developed, IMO. I don’t think he’s wired to be the prototype guy and people expect it so get frustrated w/ him at times but overall, I think he’s a real good player. W/ that said, if there’s someone behind him that is playing better, I’m all for playing them. There’s some talent behind him w/ Phil, Clarke & Pyne, so he can’t get complacent, but for now, I’m fine w/ book & I don’t think he’ll be the reason we don’t win big next year.
I also believe the reverse would be true. If Burrow had signed with ND, he would be no where near where he is now. That’s coaching and it’s why the elite skill players are choosing to go elsewhere.”
Fair points but book has developed, IMO. I don’t think he’s wired to be the prototype guy and people expect it so get frustrated w/ him at times but overall, I think he’s a real good player. W/ that said, if there’s someone behind him that is playing better, I’m all for playing them. There’s some talent behind him w/ Phil, Clarke & Pyne, so he can’t get complacent, but for now, I’m fine w/ book & I don’t think he’ll be the reason we don’t win big next year.
Yes different players made mistakes, played poor, and cost us in each game. The big difference, book was the only one that made big mistakes an cost us in all 3 of them. We’ve played 4 really good to great teams over the last two years and have only won one. Book didn’t play much in the win.
Book completed 62 % of his passes against Georgia.
Fromm only completed 48 % against LSU
Are you equating the supporting cast that Book has with the supporting cast that Burrow has ?
