BK is not getting fired...

[scubastevefl]

He just signed an extension and ND might still be paying Charlie. For all those who are longing for Tom Herman, who says he even wants to come to ND? He will have his pick of jobs, others with less restrictions. He's no guarantee, he's BK when BK was at Cincinnati.

I'm the last person who usually defends BK, I can't stand taking the ball first, or his vanilla offense with no identity, ND doesn't play with tempo, they don't play with power, I could describe ND's offense if my life depended on it. Or the atrocious tackling.

Best we can hope for is they fire the entire D-staff in the offseason. Our secondary was doomed the second our secondary was doing a Cheech and Chong impersonation.

Let's contemplate, BK has brought the talent level way up, he's put ND in the spotlight again, player development has improved, J. Smith could have been the number one overall pick if had not been hurt on a Bosa cheap shot.

Remember your competing against schools with no academics standards, no ethical standards, gray-shirting, NFL mini-camp style cuts, plus injuries or under performing are forced to retire to transfer.

What's the next coach going to do that BK isn't? Sure if you can get Chip Kelly out of SF, than I say he's your guy, but would he ever want to come?

 

[Java65]

What could the next coach do? Get similar results to those of Stanford.

I've said 100 times that ND cannot compete with the Bama's and O$U's of the world since they are semi-pro teams. They should win 9-10 games every year and Kelly hasn't done that.

 

[rgc7]

I can agree that ND may lose out on some outstanding football players due to academics, but I was never in complete agreement with that used as an excuse.
A coach is also a salesman and High Academic can also be a selling point to a kids family.
The other way to bring top talent in is to have position coaches for whom kids want to play . Lou had Joe Moore and Notre Dame recruited Top O Linemen year after year. Lou gave ND a smash mouth offense, and
he also recruited top backs every year.
so , yes, we can not get some kids that Alabama can, but there are a lot of other kids out there.
after all every school can only recruit a limited number of kids every year. So we are really only dealing with
20 or so prospects each year.
Also, if memory serves me right, Alabama was in a down spiral before Saban , and Fla is nowhere as good as it was since Urban left.
So perhaps, coaching is the answer ? Don' t know who that coach may be, but the right guy coud make all the difference.

 

[Legendsteve]

No big name coach will ever come to ND again. After what transpired with Lou ND football is dead. And has been since 1996. Makes no difference who the coach is. Admin doesn't care anymore. And never will.

 

[Java65]

I can agree that ND may lose out on some outstanding football players due to academics, but I was never in complete agreement with that used as an excuse.
A coach is also a salesman and High Academic can also be a selling point to a kids family.
The other way to bring top talent in is to have position coaches for whom kids want to play . Lou had Joe Moore and Notre Dame recruited Top O Linemen year after year. Lou gave ND a smash mouth offense, and
he also recruited top backs every year.
so , yes, we can not get some kids that Alabama can, but there are a lot of other kids out there.
after all every school can only recruit a limited number of kids every year. So we are really only dealing with
20 or so prospects each year.
Also, if memory serves me right, Alabama was in a down spiral before Saban , and Fla is nowhere as good as it was since Urban left.
So perhaps, coaching is the answer ? Don' t know who that coach may be, but the right guy coud make all the difference.

It's not just recruiting but that certainly is a big part of it.

Lets just say there are 10 elite DT, Urban can offer all 10 while Kelly can only offer 5. If each can "close the deal" on 20% of those kids O$U will get 2 and ND 1. Now do that over 4 years and OSU has recruited 8 elite DT and ND 4. We all know that a certain percentage of those signed won't work out for whatever reason. So ND will have at most 2 or 3 at most on the roster and OSU will have 5 or 6 elite DT on their roster. Now when an injure happens, and it will because it's football, OSU can simply plug in the next guy. More than likely ND will start having to rotate in "project" type players.

Add to the above certain programs, not all but we know they are there, treat football like a job. Those players spend 40 hrs a week on football activities and very little in the class room while ND players are spending 40 hrs a week on school related activities. Does any one really think that what was exposed at UNC is really an isolated incident? The elite programs like Bama, OSU, FSU are semi-pro teams and ND runs it's program almost like an Ivy League school.

That said ND should win 9-10 games a season without question but I doubt they'll ever win a NC unless changes a bit.. not a lot it not; "ND way or Bama's way" there is a huge range in between.

 

[rgc7]

p

It's not just recruiting but that certainly is a big part of it.

Lets just say there are 10 elite DT, Urban can offer all 10 while Kelly can only offer 5. If each can "close the deal" on 20% of those kids O$U will get 2 and ND 1. Now do that over 4 years and OSU has recruited 8 elite DT and ND 4. We all know that a certain percentage of those signed won't work out for whatever reason. So ND will have at most 2 or 3 at most on the roster and OSU will have 5 or 6 elite DT on their roster. Now when an injure happens, and it will because it's football, OSU can simply plug in the next guy. More than likely ND will start having to rotate in "project" type players.

Add to the above certain programs, not all but we know they are there, treat football like a job. Those players spend 40 hrs a week on football activities and very little in the class room while ND players are spending 40 hrs a week on school related activities. Does any one really think that what was exposed at UNC is really an isolated incident? The elite programs like Bama, OSU, FSU are semi-pro teams and ND runs it's program almost like an Ivy League school.

That said ND should win 9-10 games a season without question but I doubt they'll ever win a NC unless changes a bit.. not a lot it not; "ND way or Bama's way" there is a huge range in between.

Java,
I agree with you that Ala., Fla, and many other schools have a recruiting advantage because of
relatively low academic admission standards.
However, many of those schools are not even in the top 25. But it seems wherever Urban, Saban,
JH go to coach, the teams suddenly become top ranked teams year in and year out ?
I also think that Coach Kelly is an example of how much coaching matters. How many games
has Kelly lost that through poor decision making, lack of preparation, Teams that don't tackle well,
etc. Saban, Mayer, JH, just put out more disciplined Fundamentally sound teams and make much better
adjustments and decisions during games.
Kelly recruits a lot of talent but that talent is just not developed to its full potential.

 

[BGI User 1596]

p


Java,
I agree with you that Ala., Fla, and many other schools have a recruiting advantage because of
relatively low academic admission standards.
However, many of those schools are not even in the top 25. But it seems wherever Urban, Saban,
JH go to coach, the teams suddenly become top ranked teams year in and year out ?
I also think that Coach Kelly is an example of how much coaching matters. How many games
has Kelly lost that through poor decision making, lack of preparation, Teams that don't tackle well,
etc. Saban, Mayer, JH, just put out more disciplined Fundamentally sound teams and make much better
adjustments and decisions during games.
Kelly recruits a lot of talent but that talent is just not developed to its full potential.

It's the difference between FCS and here - you have to develop all the talent on both sides of the ball or its time to turn off the lights.

 

[IrishMike409]

Totally agree. BK isn't going anywhere. He's gonna win a ton more games at ND, and then decide when he wants to retire. I think ND finishes this season 10-2 or 9-3.

 

[perseverare]

re thread title:

and he knows that, and it adds to his arrogance and disdain for anyone who asks a question.

 

[Java65]

p


Java,
I agree with you that Ala., Fla, and many other schools have a recruiting advantage because of
relatively low academic admission standards.
However, many of those schools are not even in the top 25. But it seems wherever Urban, Saban,
JH go to coach, the teams suddenly become top ranked teams year in and year out ?
I also think that Coach Kelly is an example of how much coaching matters. How many games
has Kelly lost that through poor decision making, lack of preparation, Teams that don't tackle well,
etc. Saban, Mayer, JH, just put out more disciplined Fundamentally sound teams and make much better
adjustments and decisions during games.
Kelly recruits a lot of talent but that talent is just not developed to its full potential.

I think for the most part we agree. There is not doubt that Saban, Urban and JH are top coaches and I think they would be successful anywhere, heck I think Harbaugh proved that at Stanford.

I've always said that ND should win 9-10 games every year. There will be the occasional 7-8 win season and the occasional 11 win season. I just think that to win a NC you have to go through a team like Bama, OSU, FSU that have a huge advantage and I'm not sure ND can ever compete with that.

 

[rgc7]

Java,
That is what really gets me about Coach Kelly. He recruits well ; He seems to be a solid 8 4 coach;
I really think his problen is that for some reason, he just doesn't see his faults ? perhaps it is a false pride ?
Perhaps it is that he is just a good 8 4 coach and that is his top ?
All I know is that I see undisciplined , lack of basic fundamentals, and unprepared teams, etc.
Football is nore than just Xs and Os, first it's about respect, discipline, toughness, and fundamentas.
Kelly should call the team together , coaches and players, and if Kelly has it in him, let then know that
he means business.
First meet alone with the coaches and read them the Riot Act, even fire a few if necessary.
Then Tell the playere, in no uncertain terms, that all positions are open, and if any players step out of line
that Kelly and the Coaching staff : ” Wii kick their A's till their noses blead " and then get the players
tackling and hitting till they ache from AH's to Belly Buttons. Auch !
Now, I know that Kelly will never do this, but if he did, on a consistent basis, he would put the
type of tough, discipline, fundamentally sound teams on the field that could get him a couple of more wins
and a few less losses every year.
perhaps , it is too late to do this year? But that is what he should do to get his teams ready year in and year out.
Now that I have given Kelly my best advice, I will recline on my arn chair and take a nap.
Lol !

 

[Java65]

rgc7,

Well said. At this point though I'm just not sure ND should keep Kelly. As I have said in other threads 7 years is one of the longest tenures of any ND coach. Other coaches that were here long; Lou, Ara and Leahy were fare more successful and popular. IMO, ND just beats a man down and I think Kelly has given everything he can and it's all downhill.

 

[IrishMike409]

I think for the most part we agree. There is not doubt that Saban, Urban and JH are top coaches and I think they would be successful anywhere, heck I think Harbaugh proved that at Stanford.

I've always said that ND should win 9-10 games every year. There will be the occasional 7-8 win season and the occasional 11 win season. I just think that to win a NC you have to go through a team like Bama, OSU, FSU that have a huge advantage and I'm not sure ND can ever compete with that.

BK will win 9-10 games this year. Done deal.

 

[perseverare]

^ And how many will the ND team players get credit for?

 

[Toby Smart]

I heard on the radio about an hour ago that the ND defense is currently at it worst under BVG than when Diaco, CW, TW, and Davie were here. And, the injury to insult comment was there is no recent history under BVG to show his defenses improve during any given season. I agree with all who say BK needs to stay away from the offense and place all his Head Coaching energy with the defense. In all national catagories, the defense is near the bottom. I concur that this is all on the staff, but, with that said, the players have to make plays. Make a tackle, pick up the blitz, don't grab the opponent when you are behind the play, either knock the ball down or intercept the damn thing when you are in position to do so, know your job so there won't be any blown coverages at the worse possible time. I'm worn out preaching to the choir.

 

[Pennick44]

I heard on the radio about an hour ago that the ND defense is currently at it worst under BVG than when Diaco, CW, TW, and Davie were here. And, the injury to insult comment was there is no recent history under BVG to show his defenses improve during any given season. I agree with all who say BK needs to stay away from the offense and place all his Head Coaching energy with the defense. In all national catagories, the defense is near the bottom. I concur that this is all on the staff, but, with that said, the players have to make plays. Make a tackle, pick up the blitz, don't grab the opponent when you are behind the play, either knock the ball down or intercept the damn thing when you are in position to do so, know your job so there won't be any blown coverages at the worse possible time. I'm worn out preaching to the choir.

When you the best player on d Cole Luke plays like that... there is more to it then just the scheme. BK needs to step up and fix it and I think he will.

 

[IrishMike409]

^ And how many will the ND team players get credit for?

The program wins.

Not sure what you're getting at?

 

[Pennick44]

The program wins.

Not sure what you're getting at?

He consistently is without logic so you will have to bare with him. 28000 posts without any coherence.

 

[Nocalirish]

BK will win 9-10 games this year. Done deal.

6-6 is more likely if no new DC is hired.

 

[Irishjohn68]

What could the next coach do? Get similar results to those of Stanford.

I've said 100 times that ND cannot compete with the Bama's and O$U's of the world since they are semi-pro teams. They should win 9-10 games every year and Kelly hasn't done that.

Actually Kelly is averaging 9 wins a season. Second, how many NC has Stanford won?

 

[perseverare]

Actually Kelly is averaging 9 wins a season. Second, how many NC has Stanford won?

ok lets talk major bowl games since neither team is a NC?

most of us have lowered the bar to that.

(no the pinstrip or fatty food bowl in not a major)

 

[Java65]

Actually Kelly is averaging 9 wins a season. Second, how many NC has Stanford won?

That's not what I said. I have said a 100 times ND should win 9+ regular season games every year. In 6 years he has done that twice and he's well on his was to another sub-9 win season.

I have also said 100 times I don't judge a ND coaches success by NC. It's nearly impossible to win a NC at ND given the restrictions. Nice strawman argument though

So Lets look at Shaw vs Kelly
Regular Season
Shaw - 11-1, 11-2, 11-2, 7-5, 11-2. Won Rose Bowl 2 times. Lost Rose Bowl, Lost Fiesta. He's finished in the top 10, 4 times (in '13 he was 10 in coaches and 11 in AP), 7th, 6, 10, 3

Kelly- 7-5, 8-4, 12-0, 8-4, 7-5, 10-2. Won; Sun Bowl, Pinstripe, Music City. Lost; Champs Sports, BCS NC, Fiesta. He has finished in the top 25 3 times - 3rd, 20, 11 (took the highest ranking of AP coaches each year.)

Overall Record
Shaw - 11-2, 12-2, 11-3, 8-5, 12-2. He is currently 2-0 and ranked #6.
Kelly - 8-5, 8-5, 12-1, 9-4, 8-5, 10-3. He is currently 1-2 and unranked.

Any comparison between Shaw and Kelly is laughable. In my book Shaw is as good a coach as Saban and Meyer.

 

[Java65]

Actually Kelly is averaging 9 wins a season. Second, how many NC has Stanford won?

Fact check. Even if want to average his seasons (which is ridiculous IMO) he still doesn't make the grade. He is averaging 8.7 regular season wins per season. If you average out his best and worst seasons he's only averaging 8.25 wins per regular season.

So he fails no matter how you want to massage the numbers.

 

[perseverare]

BTW....re the thread title

not going to be fired does not mean he does not deserve to be fired

 

[perseverare]

1. 
   BodizephaxI've posted how many times?
   Joined:
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   Hopefully Swarbrick can convince Coach Kelly to step down after the season. I like Coach Kelly but I love the Irish and want to get to the next level.
   Coach Kelly has done a good job making the Irish job attractive again for the next coach. I hope the Irish can get a top notch outside hire but if they can't just hire Mike Denbrock.
   
   I eat my crow in thinking this Irish team was destined for Greatness !
   
   Hats off to Texas and Michigan State.
   
   *** I will still cheer for the Irish for all their games but I might skip a few and won't get really interested until they become relevant again. I wish we could get a coach like Urban Meyer.
   
   *** But I refuse to trash the current staff or team. I wish them all the success.
   
   *** And God bless all of you Irish fans !
   
   1 Bodizephax, Saturday at 11:32 PM
   captstabbin likes this.