BK > Freeman As Recruiter

[Terry Jillery]

The telling heads like to prop up Freeman but what matters is how to stack up to your competition.

BK’s average class from 2011-2021 was 11.9.

Freeman’s 2023 class was #12. The 2024 class will be very unlikely to break the top 12 considering last years data and the forecast of the 247 calculator. So the margin between BK and Freeman will widen.

So, while it feels like freeman is more likable and a harder working recruiter himself, he’s currently behind BK. BK was a master delegator. Most great coaches are.

It’s not about who you get, it’s about how they stack up to the other teams in the nation in any given year. Some years simply have better guys than others. So while the blue chip ratio looks slightly better, it’s better for all the teams that are normally above us too.

Let the haters hate. BK still the better recruiter, unfortunately.

 

[john0gaunt]

BK brought in a lot of great players. Linemen, LB's, TE's etc.

But if Freeman can get Carr on campus and into the starting position without losing him to NIL or by bringing in a transfer, then he would be miles ahead of BK in recruiting the most important position on the field. Miles ahead.

 

[sjb75]

The telling heads like to prop up Freeman but what matters is how to stack up to your competition.

BK’s average class from 2011-2021 was 11.9.

Freeman’s 2023 class was #12. The 2024 class will be very unlikely to break the top 12 considering last years data and the forecast of the 247 calculator. So the margin between BK and Freeman will widen.

So, while it feels like freeman is more likable and a harder working recruiter himself, he’s currently behind BK. BK was a master delegator. Most great coaches are.

It’s not about who you get, it’s about how they stack up to the other teams in the nation in any given year. Some years simply have better guys than others. So while the blue chip ratio looks slightly better, it’s better for all the teams that are normally above us too.

Let the haters hate. BK still the better recruiter, unfortunately.

I'm the biggest Brian Kelly supporter and fan you will find. I miss 44-6.

That said, your thread is garbage.

Meet chaseball and Get Nasty for dinner and chat. The three of you are perfect for each other.

 

[Terry Jillery]

Lot of wisdom in there if you open your mind.

I’m very positive about Freeman so your point doesn’t really work here. I like dialogue.

 

[NCDomer1]

Not so fast my friend. MB last year recruited more blue chippers than BK ever did. The schools ahead of ND get a huge advantage in playing the NIL game as well as full portal access, hopefully, that will change with the new AD. MB on the same playing field than see what happens

 

[bizzybecknd]

Is one year of data relevant when be compared to 11 years, in which the results were identical? How did BKs rankings compare prior to MF joining the staff?

 

[sjb75]

Lot of wisdom in there if you open your mind.

I’m very positive about Freeman so your point doesn’t really work here. I like dialogue.

If the "...dialogue..." was worth responding to, I would.

It isn't.

 

[Terry Jillery]

If the "...dialogue..." was worth responding to, I would.

It isn't.

Sounds like you are a very opinionated individual. You must keep to your own kind.

 

[sjb75]

Sounds like you are a very opinionated individual. You must keep to your own kind.

Go and find chaseball or Get Nasty. You will receive the "dialogue...." to your thread that you are seeking.

 

[baron100]

Not so fast my friend. MB last year recruited more blue chippers than BK ever did. The schools ahead of ND get a huge advantage in playing the NIL game as well as full portal access, hopefully, that will change with the new AD. MB on the same playing field than see what happens

1 yr doesn’t mean much to me so I’ll reserve comment on who’s better or worse for a few more years. But Freeman himself has said nil is in no way a hindrance to recruiting success at nd. And I think he’s right, how much is Hartman getting? 1 mil? Both Meyer and Hamilton were at the top of the comp ladder nationally. In terms of the portal, we took 10 guys last year! And the top qb. Look at a school like Stanford if you want to complain about a team being penalized with the portal ——16 out and 3 in. furthermore, you can’t use this as a crutch and then hypocritically say to recruits “ we do things differently “ if in the end the model is tx a@m. give me 3 or 4 recruiting cycles before I measure bk vs Mf as recruiters

 

[echowaker]

Lot of wisdom in there if you open your mind.

I’m very positive about Freeman so your point doesn’t really work here. I like dialogue.

Not a fair comparison. How was Kelly recruiting in his 2nd year as a head coach ?

 

[IrishBeer]

Lot of wisdom in there if you open your mind.

I’m very positive about Freeman so your point doesn’t really work here. I like dialogue.

I hate saying the word troll but since you’re newer here I will tell you, sjb is the board troll. Don’t let it get you down 😜

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

You are not taking into account that Marcus Freeman has had to deal with other schools handing out big bags of NIL money to recruits, something that BK never had to worry about. That is a huge deal, IMO. For example, I think it is very likely that Dante Moore and Peyton Bowen would have ended up at ND but for the promise of substantial NIL money they received to go somewhere else. And I wonder if Keon Keeley might have also ended up at ND, though I am not sure NIL money was the deciding factor with his decommitment and subsequent signing with Alabama. Those are 2, and possibly 3, five-star kids we lost because of NIL money, and not because Marcus Freeman isn't a first rate recruiter.

Give Marcus Freeman a couple of more classes to see how things shake out with the brave new world of NIL. ND is still finding its way there. There is no doubt in my mind he is a better recruiter than BK ever was; whether he will end up being a more successful head coach remains to be seen.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

1 yr doesn’t mean much to me so I’ll reserve comment on who’s better or worse for a few more years. But Freeman himself has said nil is in no way a hindrance to recruiting success at nd. And I think he’s right, how much is Hartman getting? 1 mil? Both Meyer and Hamilton were at the top of the comp ladder nationally. In terms of the portal, we took 10 guys last year! And the top qb. Look at a school like Stanford if you want to complain about a team being penalized with the portal ——16 out and 3 in. furthermore, you can’t use this as a crutch and then hypocritically say to recruits “ we do things differently “ if in the end the model is tx a@m. give me 3 or 4 recruiting cycles before I measure bk vs Mf as recruiters

While MF may have publicly stated that NIL is not a hindrance to recruiting at ND, to have said otherwise would have been taking a silent shot at the AD and BOT for their tough stance on NIL. Privately, I am pretty certain MF knows that he is at a competitive disadvantage with the current NIL situation. NIL was not intended to be used as a recruiting inducement, but that is exactly was is happening now. Until the NCAA curbs some of the current abuses with NIL--and I am not holding my breath on that one--or ND rethinks how it will approach NIL, MF is going to find convincing 5 star recruits to come to ND will be tough sledding. Not impossible, but very difficult.

 

[NIN Irish]

The telling heads like to prop up Freeman but what matters is how to stack up to your competition.

BK’s average class from 2011-2021 was 11.9.

Freeman’s 2023 class was #12. The 2024 class will be very unlikely to break the top 12 considering last years data and the forecast of the 247 calculator. So the margin between BK and Freeman will widen.

So, while it feels like freeman is more likable and a harder working recruiter himself, he’s currently behind BK. BK was a master delegator. Most great coaches are.

It’s not about who you get, it’s about how they stack up to the other teams in the nation in any given year. Some years simply have better guys than others. So while the blue chip ratio looks slightly better, it’s better for all the teams that are normally above us too.

Let the haters hate. BK still the better recruiter, unfortunately.

You're just like Irish beer and du lac. Coincidence, I think not. 😂

 

[NCDomer1]

1 yr doesn’t mean much to me so I’ll reserve comment on who’s better or worse for a few more years. But Freeman himself has said nil is in no way a hindrance to recruiting success at nd. And I think he’s right, how much is Hartman getting? 1 mil? Both Meyer and Hamilton were at the top of the comp ladder nationally. In terms of the portal, we took 10 guys last year! And the top qb. Look at a school like Stanford if you want to complain about a team being penalized with the portal ——16 out and 3 in. furthermore, you can’t use this as a crutch and then hypocritically say to recruits “ we do things differently “ if in the end the model is tx a@m. give me 3 or 4 recruiting cycles before I measure bk vs Mf as recruiters

You miss my point entirely. There was no NIL when BK was here and the portal was not a free for all. MB is hampered by both of them, yet, he is bringing in more 4 stars than BK did

 

[BleedingBlueNGold]

I’d argue that early on BK recruited lights out, but that came at a cost in regards to program reputation. There was A LOT of off field issues early in his tenure. How many former BK guys are dead now?

Now I don’t agree that we can say BK is better than MF right now. Let’s assess after a few classes. However I would rather have respectable young men leading the program compared to the mess there was early in the BK tenure. I don’t think winning is as important as molding respectable young men the way MF does. That makes me prouder to be an ND fan nowadays.

 

[IrishBeer]

The NIL thing is classic apologist syndrome. For them, the excuses will continue no matter what happens.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

The NIL thing is classic apologist syndrome. For them, the excuses will continue no matter what happens.

I am not being an apologist; I am being a realist. To think that NIL did not hamper MF's recruiting efforts simply ignores what happened with Dante Moore and Peyton Bowen. You don't think it did?

 

[baron100]

You miss my point entirely. There was no NIL when BK was here and the portal was not a free for all. MB is hampered by both of them, yet, he is bringing in more 4 stars than BK did

You’re missing my point—- it doesn’t matter. Cmf said as much

 

[Golson5]

MF is a much better recruiter than Kelly was. Kelly as of now is better coach.

Time will tell on that one

But Freeman > Kelly in recruiting easy

 

[Golson5]

The NIL thing is classic apologist syndrome. For them, the excuses will continue no matter what happens.

No need for an excuse. Freeman is recruiting very well.

 

[baron100]

The NIL thing is classic apologist syndrome. For them, the excuses will continue no matter what happens.

Meanwhile we just paid the top qb in the portal 1 million dollars. And as a non degree seeking grad he’s not attending class according to Hyde. it is what it is and I’m ok with it but the fan base is littered with excuse makers.

 

[sjb75]

Meanwhile we just paid the top qb in the portal 1 million dollars. And as a non degree seeking grad he’s not attending class according to Hyde. it is what it is and I’m ok with it but the fan base is littered with excuse makers.

Georgia QB Stetson Bennett spent 6 years in college, and did not graduate.

Again, 6 full years.

How does that happen?

 

[baron100]

While MF may have publicly stated that NIL is not a hindrance to recruiting at ND, to have said otherwise would have been taking a silent shot at the AD and BOT for their tough stance on NIL. Privately, I am pretty certain MF knows that he is at a competitive disadvantage with the current NIL situation. NIL was not intended to be used as a recruiting inducement, but that is exactly was is happening now. Until the NCAA curbs some of the current abuses with NIL--and I am not holding my breath on that one--or ND rethinks how it will approach NIL, MF is going to find convincing 5 star recruits to come to ND will be tough sledding. Not impossible, but very difficult.

Point well taken, and freeman is at least saying the right things. Because of the opaqueness that currently surrounds nil a number of people are either making accusations or assumptions without facts to support their assertions. Case in point is Keon Keeley, several on the board said we lost him due to nil. Is it conceivable the guy wanted to get developed and play for one of the greatest coaches of all time? A coach who has had more first rd draft picks than any coach ever. Verse a first year coach with a paper thin track record. Is Bama paying guys? honestly I don’t know, they didnt appear to pay a couple guys last year that they thought they had wrapped up ——Cormani MCclain , Peter Woods and Kelby Collins , to name a few. I totally agree with you that a set of rules applying to every school is necessary and the more transparency the better. However, no one is shedding tears for nd when they see hartmans 1mm$ deal. Are some schools/ coaches abusing nil, no doubt! But how do you accuse anyone until you have concrete evidence

 

[baron100]

Georgia QB Stetson Bennett spent 6 years in college, and did not graduate.

Again, 6 full years.

How does that happen?

Well this will be very disappointing to some on the board who like to compare us to Stanford. Now the measuring stick is Ga

 

[BGI User 756]

The telling heads like to prop up Freeman but what matters is how to stack up to your competition.

BK’s average class from 2011-2021 was 11.9.

Freeman’s 2023 class was #12. The 2024 class will be very unlikely to break the top 12 considering last years data and the forecast of the 247 calculator. So the margin between BK and Freeman will widen.

So, while it feels like freeman is more likable and a harder working recruiter himself, he’s currently behind BK. BK was a master delegator. Most great coaches are.

It’s not about who you get, it’s about how they stack up to the other teams in the nation in any given year. Some years simply have better guys than others. So while the blue chip ratio looks slightly better, it’s better for all the teams that are normally above us too.

Let the haters hate. BK still the better recruiter, unfortunately.

Lol at comparing like this. Guess you skipped math class a bit

 

[BGI User 756]

The NIL thing is classic apologist syndrome. For them, the excuses will continue no matter what happens.

And your take is classic ostrich syndrome

 

[sjb75]

Well this will be very disappointing to some on the board who like to compare us to Stanford. Now the measuring stick is Ga

How does a Quarterback at Georgia, two national titles and 6 full years in college, not graduate?

How?

 

[sjb75]

The NIL thing is classic apologist syndrome. For them, the excuses will continue no matter what happens.

I call bullshit. I don't believe you actually believe your own words here. No one uses the term "bag..." as much as you do, then you write this.

Again. I call bullshit.

 

[baron100]

How does a Quarterback at Georgia, two national titles and 6 full years in college, not graduate?

How?

It’s disgraceful no doubt. Unfortunately we can’t throw rocks, we had Gipp. Never graduated from HS and according to Lou and others didn’t attend class here either. But yeah, 6 yrs with “ tutors” and summer school, hard to believe he could stay eligible

 

[sjb75]

It’s disgraceful no doubt. Unfortunately we can’t throw rocks, we had Gipp. Never graduated from HS and according to Lou and others didn’t attend class here either. But yeah, 6 yrs with “ tutors” and summer school, hard to believe he could stay eligible

Who is Gipp? Which year did he play for Lou? How does Lou get in a kid who did not graduate HS?

 

[sjb75]

It’s disgraceful no doubt. Unfortunately we can’t throw rocks, we had Gipp. Never graduated from HS and according to Lou and others didn’t attend class here either. But yeah, 6 yrs with “ tutors” and summer school, hard to believe he could stay eligible

I googled Gipp. He played at Notre Dame in 1917, over 100 years ago.

Dude, you can't be serious with this shit.

 

[NDSMC78]

It’s disgraceful no doubt. Unfortunately we can’t throw rocks, we had Gipp. Never graduated from HS and according to Lou and others didn’t attend class here either. But yeah, 6 yrs with “ tutors” and summer school, hard to believe he could stay eligible

Not sure what is accomplished by bashing not only a legend of ND, but also a legend of the game, who died more than a century ago.

 

[sjb75]

Not sure what is accomplished by bashing not only a legend of ND, but also a legend of the game, who died more than a century ago.

Who is this baron100 clown?

 

[IrishBeer]

Not sure what is accomplished by bashing not only a legend of ND, but also a legend of the game, who died more than a century ago.

Equally if not even more importantly, the great Ronald Reagan, who played George Gip, would be upset about this.

 

[Terry Jillery]

Lol at comparing like this. Guess you skipped math class a bit

I’d rather be 7th in recruiting f under BK with less of a per capita player ranking than 12th under freeman with a higher per capita player ranking. Just because one class has more high ranked players than a previous doesn’t mean you are inching forward. You’re in essence moving backwards ignorantly.

 

[Golson5]

I’d rather be 7th in recruiting f under BK with less of a per capita player ranking than 12th under freeman with a higher per capita player ranking. Just because one class has more high ranked players than a previous doesn’t mean you are inching forward. You’re in essence moving backwards ignorantly.

This is incorrect

 

[sjb75]

I’d rather be 7th in recruiting f under BK with less of a per capita player ranking than 12th under freeman with a higher per capita player ranking. Just because one class has more high ranked players than a previous doesn’t mean you are inching forward. You’re in essence moving backwards ignorantly.

Story teller.

 

[tkirish]

First I think in order to compare , 5 years of recruiting should be a barometer. Second MF is dealing with the NIL and Transfer Portal as the standard now. Kelly for most of his 12 years didn’t deal with those two things. With that said, results are what matters. Regardless if recruiting is better or worse or the same, wins and losses will be the real measure. Kelly’s record speaks for itself. Let’s give MF time to put his mark on the program. I also think with a new AD coming in next year , we have to see if that’s a plus or minus. Time will tell.