At what point does building depth become an excuse?

[Telx1]

I like Kelly and I like the kind of program building changes he has brought to ND. We are finally to the point where we have excellent talent at most positions and very good depth as well, and it has taken seemingly a long time to get here. Building depth can no longer be an excuse for the way we practice or scheme, etc... This should be the start of sustainable 10 plus win seasons.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Anything under 9 wins this season and I think the seat warms up under him. I can't imagine under 7-8 wins happening this year. Then again most picked 10+ wins last year. I really felt 9 wins was the ceiling and anything beyond that was going to require luck.

This year I think 10 wins is the ceiling with the way the schedule lines up. Going to be hard to go GTech, UMass, at Clemson, Navy, USC. Without stumbling. And then also staying healthy and not slipping up anywhere else.

But the depth is there. Sure ND is a little more thin at Safety then most would like, or at DE than most prefer. But every team will have issues at depth somewhere. You only get so many players. And you have to build the team for the strengths you want to have. For Kelly that is offense. And when you look at the depth at O Line, WR / TE you see where some of those extra bodies are.

 

[end_23]

I don't think ND can sustain 10-win seasons like USC and others have in the past. It's too tough. ND runs a different kind of program. This season could be a 10 win season though. This season is it for Kelly. He knows it. We know it. I hope he doesn't have excuses lined up like always does. This is year six pal. A lot of studs are going to leave after this season and it will drop ND back to 7-8 wins in 2016.

 

[continually35forever]

I like Kelly and I like the kind of program building changes he has brought to ND. We are finally to the point where we have excellent talent at most positions and very good depth as well, and it has taken seemingly a long time to get here. Building depth can no longer be an excuse for the way we practice or scheme, etc... This should be the start of sustainable 10 plus win seasons.

Tex -

we were 8-0 and had beaten the #1 team in the country at their place -- we were giving up 85 yds per game on the ground

day jones schmidt cage went down and we gave up 200 per game that combined w Golson's woes and you have the cluster fu that became last season .

Sit tight if we lose more than 2 games I am best friends w purse 24 k

 

[Pennick4]

I like Kelly and I like the kind of program building changes he has brought to ND. We are finally to the point where we have excellent talent at most positions and very good depth as well, and it has taken seemingly a long time to get here. Building depth can no longer be an excuse for the way we practice or scheme, etc... This should be the start of sustainable 10 plus win seasons.

I think ND is at the point where depth is pretty close to being built which means the program should be pretty consistently good. Now if the guys try to take the easy way and mess up academically or act like FSU players then ND is going to discipline them instead of looking the other way. Every program experiences injuries but when you throw in suspensions.... makes it that much harder to be a top flight program.

 

[perseverare]

I like Kelly and I like the kind of program building changes he has brought to ND. We are finally to the point where we have excellent talent at most positions and very good depth as well, and it has taken seemingly a long time to get here. Building depth can no longer be an excuse for the way we practice or scheme, etc... This should be the start of sustainable 10 plus win seasons.

surprising comment from you. welcome to the real world of thought (although, I know you have visited before)

First, depth can be a fleeting thing; most positions are 2 deep before adrop off; so depth disappears with 1 injury.
Second, your depth chart is only as good as the players on it.
and
Kelly, and discussions of excuses are getting tiresome. What exactly are fans expecting?

 

[SALittleGiant513]

I feel like the board has a discussion regarding excuses and expectations going into last season and a majority of the board kept saying the team was still a work in progress. It is interesting to see more poster express a desire to not have excuses again this year.

 

[continually35forever]

If ND loses 7 starters on defense than all bets are off for a 11-1 12-0 season

Team was a playoff team last yr sans injuries --if losing 7 starters is an excuse than I am an excuse maker -

Healthy we win 11 last yr - healthy we win 11+ this yr .I always thought injuries were a reason not an excuse --- my bad I defer to the internet tough guys

 

[SALittleGiant513]

That must have felt good for you

 

[continually35forever]

So I am clear

losing three starters to suspension -

Losing 6 starters to injury on defense

Are these excuses for losing 4 games or reasons ? Please advise

 

[Telx1]

My point being Kelly has been in charge long enough to build the program to his liking, and we should have sufficient talent and depth to regularly have ten plus win seasons. It is fair to argue last year was a total aberration with the combination of suspensions and excessive injuries to key players in key positions, and that is simply fact and explains a great deal; but none of us knows how the season would have gone otherwise. My OP is forward looking, and in the context of the norm, not in context of yet another aberration.

 

[perseverare]

which is the norm and which is the abberation? If the abberation occurs more frequently than the norm, then?

 

[SALittleGiant513]

My post really wasn't a commentary on last season but rather a comment on how perceptions of where ND is and the expectations based off of the perceptions in question are different from a year ago.

I think that there are reasons and that there are excuses sure, but the way either is viewed is based on context. Example NW had as many injuries as ND last year when they played, same thing with USC who had something less then 60 scholarship players when they played ND.

 

[bizzybecknd]

which is the norm and which is the abberation? If the abberation occurs more frequently than the norm, then?

Very good to see these ground breaking 'thoughts' being presented in this thread. All very new ideas; cutting edge thinking this board hasn't seen yet. Impressive. You guys drink a lot and forget or just prefer to talk about the same things day in and day out?

 

[Telx1]

Perse, then it's the new norm!

 

[perseverare]

Perse, then it's the new norm!

ok, then

 

[perseverare]

Perse, then it's the new norm!

I wonder which one of the injured players made the call to go for "2" vs NW?
(we are still blaming the pkayers, right?)

 

[Telx1]

Now you're straying into your anti-Kelly mode. Bad call for sure, but do you honestly think we lose that game with our injured and suspended players playing? Not interested in debating their injuries versus ours, etc... Kelly has brought the program to the point where we have the talent and depth to deal with a normal season of injuries, with QB being a key exception only for lack of experience among the back ups.

 

[perseverare]

Now you're straying into your anti-Kelly mode. Bad call for sure, but do you honestly think we lose that game with our injured and suspended players playing? Not interested in debating their injuries versus ours, etc... Kelly has brought the program to the point where we have the talent and depth to deal with a normal season of injuries, with QB being a key exception only for lack of experience among the back ups.

NW? injuries had nothing to do with that loss
"But sometimes you win by not putting yourself in a position to lose." Kieth Arnold; commenting on the debacle.

 

[Lucky Green]

Continual with the same lame excuses. The 3 star depth we are recruiting now will be starters in 3 years. Hello mediocrity. We should have a good season this year but Kelly will find a way to F&ck it up with his game plans and play calling, then somehow land a job in the NFL where he will go 2-14 and be fired.

 

[perseverare]

Continual with the same lame excuses. The 3 star depth we are recruiting now will be starters in 3 years. Hello mediocrity. We should have a good season this year but Kelly will find a way to F&ck it up with his game plans and play calling, then somehow land a job in the NFL where he will go 2-14 and be fired.

^ I think the influence of Sanford will eliminate the in game decision blunders of the past; offensively.
This team has firepower and it no excuse will suffice.

If the team does well and gets 10W's; Kelly's agent will definately be knocking on NFL doors. Personally, I don't think he finds there is interest; the best chance being the Giants where Coughlin will/may retire.
If that is Kelly's goal then he has that right; his coaching career clock is ticking down!
Plus the ND job is not the kind of job for long durations. There is just too too much stress politics and red tape.
6-7 years is a career at ND.

(we will obviously & apparently experience a return of the 'clan', to stiffle any objective discussions; it will escalate as the season nears. And if things start off less than terrific this board could be chaos.)

 

[Telx1]

My pure guess is that Kelly ends up with a ten year career as HC of ND, punctuated with a string of ten plus win seasons.

 

[bizzybecknd]

NW game was squarely on the players. When players fumble the ball twice inside the red zone (one on the goal line) and your SR RB puts the ball on the turf with under 2 min left, yea going for 2 shouldn't even be discussed as a reason for the loss in my opinion. If you have ever been a player, you do not go into the locker room pointing fingers at the coach for that game.

 

[continually35forever]

NW game was squarely on the players. When players fumble the ball twice inside the red zone (one on the goal line) and your SR RB puts the ball on the turf with under 2 min left, yea going for 2 shouldn't even be discussed as a reason for the loss in my opinion. If you have ever been a player, you do not go into the locker room pointing fingers at the coach for that game.

Bravo Bizzy

Brown fumbled on the goal line
McDaniels put the ball on the ground w less than 2 min left
Golson and Folston coughed it up on the five yd line --pretty sure Brindza missed a couple FG attempts as well .



putting that loss on Kelly is ridiculous

 

[Telx1]

bizzy, agree 100%

 

[perseverare]

My pure guess is that Kelly ends up with a ten year career as HC of ND, punctuated with a string of ten plus win seasons.

So are you saying Kelly is otherwise unemployable?

I think Kelly is seeing the picture that as for NFL hopes, he does not seem to excite the pro GM's. But, If Kelly has to endure much more BS from the administration people at ND, he may look at other opportunity, such as the SEC; that's the next thing closest to the NFL. He might want to see what it is like on a level playing field.

 

[Java65]

NW game was squarely on the players. When players fumble the ball twice inside the red zone (one on the goal line) and your SR RB puts the ball on the turf with under 2 min left, yea going for 2 shouldn't even be discussed as a reason for the loss in my opinion. If you have ever been a player, you do not go into the locker room pointing fingers at the coach for that game.

Turnovers and horrible RZ offense have been a trademark of this offense for 5 years. Different QBs, different RBs, different OL, different OCs (in title only). At some point we need to stop blaming the entire world and maybe just consider it's the guy running the offense.

If every student in a class performs poorly every year at what point do we consider that the teacher is not a good teacher.

 

[perseverare]

java: are you on the Other site also?

As for the offense, look for the Sanford Affect! get excited! (turn to another channel when the opposition has the ball!)

 

[Java65]

java: are you on the Other site also?

As for the offense, look for the Sanford Affect! get excited! (turn to another channel when the opposition has the ball!)

I am on the other site too.

As for Sanford, I'll have to see if he's the real OC or if it's going to be more of the same (OC in title only and Kelly is the real OC/QB coach).

 

[Lucky Green]

Bravo Bizzy

Brown fumbled on the goal line
McDaniels put the ball on the ground w less than 2 min left
Golson and Folston coughed it up on the five yd line --pretty sure Brindza missed a couple FG attempts as well .



putting that loss on Kelly is ridiculous

What the hell was Kelly doing calling a flanker sweep with Brown? Idiotic!!! We were running the ball down their throats. Hand it off to Folston. Kelly is to blame for the bad play call. Similar to bring in Crist cold off the bench for the QB sneak (which he fumbled). Kelly is always calling plays at the goal line which results in a loss of yardage. Power football at the GL. Is that too much to ask?

 

[perseverare]

Lucky:
I do think if some D-A play is sent in at the GL, MZ is a guy that just might call a play of his own instead!
Defenses won't get to cheat on the ND WR's with the concern that MZ might go right up the middle!
This is a horse of a different color!

 

[Pennick4]

Yeah Kelly should turn the offense over to a coach with exactly 1 years as an offensive coordinator. Not going to happen. The offensive

Lucky:
I do think if some D-A play is sent in at the GL, MZ is a guy that just might call a play of his own instead!
Defenses won't get to cheat on the ND WR's with the concern that MZ might go right up the middle!
This is a horse of a different color!

Zaire would never see the field again if he did that. You wanted him to play defensive back.

 

[Pennick4]

java: are you on the Other site also?

As for the offense, look for the Sanford Affect! get excited! (turn to another channel when the opposition has the ball!)

Yeah Kelly is going to turn the offense over to a coach who has 1 year as an OC at Boise State.

 

[Java65]

Yeah Kelly is going to turn the offense over to a coach who has 1 year as an OC at Boise State.

Kelly certainly is not qualified to be OC at Boise.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Pennick you do agree that a lot of coaches hire OC's to run the offense though right?

 

[Pennick4]

Pennick you do agree that a lot of coaches hire OC's to run the offense though right?

Of course. My point is that there are some here who think he is Bill Walsh.and going to take over when Kelly leaves. I like the hire but come on. I hope he is a really good QB coach.

 

[Java65]

Of course. My point is that there are some here who think he is Bill Walsh.and going to take over when Kelly leaves. I like the hire but come on. I hope he is a really good QB coach.

You cannot be arguing that the offense has been anything but miserable for 5 years. Kelly has been running this offense, so what leads you to conclude he's qualified to be the OC. As I have said, excellent HC, terrible OC/QB coach.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Sure I agree the hype is a bit excessive but putting hope in a new OC hire and believing he can change the offense is what fans do.

 

[Pennick4]

You cannot be arguing that the offense has been anything but miserable for 5 years. Kelly has been running this offense, so what leads you to conclude he's qualified to be the OC. As I have said, excellent HC, terrible OC/QB coach.

32.5 pts per game last year is very good.

 

[Java65]

32.5 pts per game last year is very good.

and 26 turnovers and .806 RZ is really awful.