A Few game thoughts from an outsider.

[beachcardinal]

First of all the team’s heart was impressive. Far behind in a physical game, in miserable, cold conditions many teams would have quit after the pick, yours didn’t. It says a lot about the team. Kaizer looked good for a freshman, but not great. He did well taking what the defense gave him at the end of the game. For the first three quarters however, Clemson put eight in the box, daring the throw. He had open receivers all over the field but could not find them. It is not unusual for a freshman receiver to not be strong at progressions, but he wasn’t. There were several passes that could have been caught, but most were needlessly high. The last place you want to throw a wet ball is high. With arms fully extended they can’t help the hands adjust. Sometimes passes need to be thrown high, these didn’t. He also flat missed some easy throws. He shows sign of being a great QB. He isn’t now. If MZ is healthy you win by 20s.

Last comment: Kelly what the what? It is almost axiomatic that you don’t chase the 2 early in the game because you may not need it. If you go for one on the first TD, you could have tied with a kick. Also the call on the second 2 point try may be the worst ever. You give a run only (run option would have been OK) to a freshman QB?????????. Really strange bad call.

Last comment: For those still lament the FSU PI call, look at last night’s pick verses the FSU one. Last night’s was perfect. FSU’s will be called all day. SC got called for one in the ASU game for the same reason. The receiver must just get in the way, not seek contact.

 

[Toby Smart]

FSU's would not be called all day. Only on that day by that ref who came out of nowhere. Let me remind you those officials missed another call on that same exact play and that second call would have impacted the game also. Kizer is doing better than good. His WRs let him down. The turnovers let him down The running game let him down. The players counted on could not be counted on. With all that going on, the Irish did come back but it didn't have to be that way. An elite team who wants to belong doesn't lose that game. The weather is no excuse. If you want to be in the conversation then you win that game. No disrespect intended, but Clemson showed me they are just like ND. Good but not great.

 

[Pennick4]

First of all the team’s heart was impressive. Far behind in a physical game, in miserable, cold conditions many teams would have quit after the pick, yours didn’t. It says a lot about the team. Kaizer looked good for a freshman, but not great. He did well taking what the defense gave him at the end of the game. For the first three quarters however, Clemson put eight in the box, daring the throw. He had open receivers all over the field but could not find them. It is not unusual for a freshman receiver to not be strong at progressions, but he wasn’t. There were several passes that could have been caught, but most were needlessly high. The last place you want to throw a wet ball is high. With arms fully extended they can’t help the hands adjust. Sometimes passes need to be thrown high, these didn’t. He also flat missed some easy throws. He shows sign of being a great QB. He isn’t now. If MZ is healthy you win by 20s.

Last comment: Kelly what the what? It is almost axiomatic that you don’t chase the 2 early in the game because you may not need it. If you go for one on the first TD, you could have tied with a kick. Also the call on the second 2 point try may be the worst ever. You give a run only (run option would have been OK) to a freshman QB?????????. Really strange bad call.

Last comment: For those still lament the FSU PI call, look at last night’s pick verses the FSU one. Last night’s was perfect. FSU’s will be called all day. SC got called for one in the ASU game for the same reason. The receiver must just get in the way, not seek contact.

I agree with most of this. Have no problem with going for 2 when they did. To attempt to get to 10 pt deficit is the correct call in those weather conditions. If ND takes care of the ball they win comfortably.
ND is in a good situation with respect to the QB position for the next several years. Mixer and Zaire are leaders which ND has been sorely missing since Kelly got to ND.

 

[Toby Smart]

Kessler will make his run for glory on October 17th. If he is allowed to stand back there without any pressure it will be Katie bar the door.

 

[HRC08]

2 point conversion was a run pass option. Kizer chose run (which BK said he agreed with in his PC). Credit Clemson for making a play. Thanks for the post.

 

[perseverare]

2 point conversion was a run pass option. Kizer chose run (which BK said he agreed with in his PC). Credit Clemson for making a play. Thanks for the post.

except none of the WR's ran a recognizable pattern

 

[Pennick4]

2 point conversion was a run pass option. Kizer chose run (which BK said he agreed with in his PC). Credit Clemson for making a play. Thanks for the post.

It was a pass/run option pre snap I believe.

 

[beachcardinal]

It was a pass/run option pre snap I believe.

Sure didn't look like it from how the WRs acted. Who did you see in a pattern? Plus the QB didn't even look out for a pass, just went straight to the run.

 

[FightingIrish44]

It was a pass/run option pre snap I believe.

Correct. The actualy play was a run all the way.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Sure didn't look like it from how the WRs acted. Who did you see in a pattern? Plus the QB didn't even look out for a pass, just went straight to the run.

That's what he was saying. "PRE-snap".

 

[beachcardinal]

FSU's would not be called all day. Only on that day by that ref who came out of nowhere. Let me remind you those officials missed another call on that same exact play and that second call would have impacted the game also. Kizer is doing better than good. His WRs let him down. The turnovers let him down The running game let him down. The players counted on could not be counted on. With all that going on, the Irish did come back but it didn't have to be that way. An elite team who wants to belong doesn't lose that game. The weather is no excuse. If you want to be in the conversation then you win that game. No disrespect intended, but Clemson showed me they are just like ND. Good but not great.

Well I have seen less contact offensive PIs called several times this year. twice against use. Reviewing Kizer you have to look at the open guys he never saw, not just the guys who dropped high passes. The turnovers surely hurt, but I think just one resulted in a score and one was Kizer's. They certainly stopped several drives though.

 

[Granite45]

The turnovers surely hurt, but I think just one resulted in a score and one was Kizer's. They certainly stopped several drives though.

The late fumble by Brown likely took points off the board as well.

 

[BigFellaFan]

The call at FSU would never had been made under normal game circumstances and certainly should not have been called when it was when the "pick" had nothing to do with the outcome because FSU was out of postion

 

[HRC08]

Sure didn't look like it from how the WRs acted. Who did you see in a pattern? Plus the QB didn't even look out for a pass, just went straight to the run.

lol... Seriously? Pass/Run option meaning it's called that way in the huddle and the QB decides which play to "call" once he's at the LOS.

 

[HRC08]

That's what he was saying. "PRE-snap".

 

[HRC08]

Well I have seen less contact offensive PIs called several times this year. twice against use. Reviewing Kizer you have to look at the open guys he never saw, not just the guys who dropped high passes. The turnovers surely hurt, but I think just one resulted in a score and one was Kizer's. They certainly stopped several drives though.

Very true. Kizer has a lot of things to work on. At this point, he's a 2 read guy. At best.

 

[HRC08]

It's funny how coaches get into no win situations with the fans. You can only go with what's in front of you. Coach Kelly saw the opportunity to cut an 11 point deficit to 10 so he took it. It didn't work out so the fans complain. If he abandons the run earlier in the game then the fans would have hallowed like timber wolves, so now they complain for staying with the run to long. There really is no way to please the fickle fan.

At the time, I had no issue with going for two.

ND clearly was struggling to sustain drives so the thought that they would be able to score two more TD's (which is what they would have needed to if the 2 pt conversion failed, like it ended up doing) was unlikely to me. Get the 2 pts there and then they need a TD and a FG. Of course those saying that, by rule, they are opposed to going for 2 until a team must, make a valid argument. So many things could have happened in those terrible weather conditions and thus, BK should have waited... i understand that side of the argument as well as how BK (and those who agree with BK) saw it at that exact moment.

 

[beachcardinal]

It's funny how coaches get into no win situations with the fans. You can only go with what's in front of you. Coach Kelly saw the opportunity to cut an 11 point deficit to 10 so he took it. It didn't work out so the fans complain. If he abandons the run earlier in the game then the fans would have hallowed like timber wolves, so now they complain for staying with the run to long. There really is no way to please the fickle fan.

Maybe but the general rule is: don't chase the points early. Maybe the general rule is wrong.

lol... Seriously? Pass/Run option meaning it's called that way in the huddle and the QB decides which play to "call" once he's at the LOS.[/QUOT

What I was suggesting was that a play should have been called that allowed the OB to pass or run depending on how the play developed such as a roll out pass/run rather than asking a freshman to read a defense and that his action should that was not the case.

 

[irishfan26]

Watched the play in slow motion. The blocks were there, so were the holes. Zaire makes it in the endzone. Kizer wasn't fast enough, in my opinion. Hole closed up too quick for him to make it.

 

[HRC08]

Maybe but the general rule is: don't chase the points early. Maybe the general rule is wrong.


What I was suggesting was that a play should have been called that allowed the OB to pass or run depending on how the play developed such as a roll out pass/run rather than asking a freshman to read a defense and that his action should that was not the case.

Yeah I didn't like the play call either. I would have liked a roll out to the right and a throw back to the left. If the play was going to be a designed run, i'd have rathered ND use a TE in the backfield(how many times have we all asked why a TE wasn't in the backfield in short yardage?), use Procise as the lead blocker (like they did on the play and CJ actually opened a slight hole for Kizer) and have the TE run behind Kizer to help shove him or start a rugby style scrum and push Kizer into the end zone. Again, Clemson deserves credit here as much as ND deserves to get questioned about it's play call. That Clemson defense lived on the field in the 4th and was dog tired but yet it came up with a stop.

 

[beachcardinal]

Yeah I didn't like the play call either. I would have liked a roll out to the right and a throw back to the left. If the play was going to be a designed run, i'd have rather ND use a TE in the backfield(how many times have we all asked why a TE wasn't in the backfield in short yardage?), use Procise as the lead blocker (like they did on the play and CJ actually opened a slight hole for Kizer) and have the TE run behind Kizer to help shove him or start a rugby style scrum and push Kizer into the end zone. Again, Clemson deserves credit here as much as ND deserves to get questioned about it's play call. That Clemson defense lived on the field in the 4th and was dog tired but yet it came up with a sthis is what I meantop.

Yes, you said it much better than I did. This is what I meant.

 

[HRC08]

Watched the play in slow motion. The blocks were there, so were the holes. Zaire makes it in the endzone. Kizer wasn't fast enough, in my opinion. Hole closed up too quick for him to make it.

Yeah... I felt there was an opening created by Procise. Kizer was spent, man... his legs were cramping. Hindsight: maybe he was the last person that should have been carrying the ball there.

 

[beachcardinal]

Yeah... I felt there was an opening created by Procise. Kizer was spent, man... his legs were cramping. Hindsight: maybe he was the last person that should have been carrying the ball there.

Plus Procise is a fabulous runner. Kelly must have thought they would key on him. I don't like giving the game to a first year player and asking a QB to make a goal line run.

 

[HRC08]

Yes, you said it much better than I did. This is what I meant.

Having said all of that... the play was THERE! The hole was OPEN but the line either couldn't keep its blocks (Elmer and Martin were completely run over after intially making good blocks) or blocked the wrong man (McGlinchey blocked the player to the inside, furthest away from the play instead of the player closest to him). Maybe if Kizer was a more natural runner he could have seen the hole was closing as soon it was open and bounced it outside? Idk.

 

[HRC08]

Plus Procise is a fabulous runner. Kelly must have thought they would key on him. I don't like giving the game to a first year player and asking a QB to make a goal line run.

Me neither. He's just not a great runner. I bet BK's kicking himself.

 

[SwlaDukie]

They probably could have done this or should have done that, but if you were going to run the ball you should run a direct snap to Prosise. But it would have been nice to see them run that pick play using Aliz'e Jones getting man to man against a linebacker. Kizer has alot of heart and composure. Can't wait to see how he does when they can open up the playbook for him.

 

[theskibro]

First of all the team’s heart was impressive. Far behind in a physical game, in miserable, cold conditions many teams would have quit after the pick, yours didn’t. It says a lot about the team. Kaizer looked good for a freshman, but not great. He did well taking what the defense gave him at the end of the game. For the first three quarters however, Clemson put eight in the box, daring the throw. He had open receivers all over the field but could not find them. It is not unusual for a freshman receiver to not be strong at progressions, but he wasn’t. There were several passes that could have been caught, but most were needlessly high. The last place you want to throw a wet ball is high. With arms fully extended they can’t help the hands adjust. Sometimes passes need to be thrown high, these didn’t. He also flat missed some easy throws. He shows sign of being a great QB. He isn’t now. If MZ is healthy you win by 20s.

Last comment: Kelly what the what? It is almost axiomatic that you don’t chase the 2 early in the game because you may not need it. If you go for one on the first TD, you could have tied with a kick. Also the call on the second 2 point try may be the worst ever. You give a run only (run option would have been OK) to a freshman QB?????????. Really strange bad call.

Last comment: For those still lament the FSU PI call, look at last night’s pick verses the FSU one. Last night’s was perfect. FSU’s will be called all day. SC got called for one in the ASU game for the same reason. The receiver must just get in the way, not seek contact.

One of the better Posts and summations of the game. I agree. Dry field, we win by 20.