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Kevin Pyne (OT) is a probable 5* that we appear to lead for.
Gee Scott (WR) and AJ Henning (APB) are Top100 players that we appear to lead for as well.
Plus we have a good shot at TON of other top players in that class right now.
A big 2018 season could setup for a massive 2020 recruiting class
Kevin Pyne (OT) is a probable 5* that we appear to lead for.
Gee Scott (WR) and AJ Henning (APB) are Top100 players that we appear to lead for as well.
Plus we have a good shot at TON of other top players in that class right now.
A big 2018 season could setup for a massive 2020 recruiting class
It is assumed that ND leads for Pyne because he's Drew's cousin... While that may very well be true (it makes logical sense) has Pyne ever actually stated that ND leads? I haven't seen that.
ND probably leads for AJ Henning, but the big dogs are just now getting in the race. We'll see if ND actually leads heading into the season, when Ohio State, etc, pick up the pressure in his recruitment.
How many times have we heard that ND was the "leader" for a top kid from the Pacific Northwest, only to see him end up staying on the West Coast? I'll believe that Gee Scott is coming to Notre Dame when he faxes in his LOI two February's from now.
Outside of Drew Pyne, who is a great early pickup, the guys that I think ND will be most in play for on the early Rivals 100 list are...
APB AJ Henning
OT Kevin Pyne
OT Turner Corcoran
OT Trey Wedig
LB Kalel Mullings
You’re welcome to your baseless pessimism, as always.
But it’s just as baseless as ever.
No. Kevin Pyne has not said expressly that ND is his number 1 school...but literally everyone in CFB knows that it’s down to ND/Mich with ND leading.
Likewise, Henning has had “big dogs” after him for his entire recruitment. His recruitment is actually winding down now.
He may well have committed to ND before the start of the season.
And we literally just landed a coveted WR from the Pacific NW (Lenzy) and we clearly, obviously lead for Scott.
But as always, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want to believe.
Baseless Pessimism? That's the 3rd time in a couple days that you've made that point and I don't understand it.
I think recent history (the entire Brian Kelly era) would suggest that my questioning ND's "lead" for top prospects two classes from now is grounded more in realism than pessimism.
Braden Lenzy was the composite #215 player in the country. Did he even make the Rivals 250 list? He wasn't even a national recruit. The schools on the West Coast wanted him, but he wasn't pursued by the Southern schools, nor Ohio State, Michigan, etc, etc... He is not an example of a top 100 guy (such as the guys on the list we are discussing) that left the West Coast to come to Notre Dame... You're trying to create a narrative there that isn't accurate.
Forgive me for wanting to see Brian Kelly's staff actually recruit at a top 5 level before I'm optimistic that they will...
When that’s what your “opinions” show, that’s what I’ll point out.
Baseless pessimism.
As you said, Lenzy was a composite Top250 recruit from the Pacific Northwest that we literally just signed. He had offers from every major west coast school, including USC, as well as Midwest schools like Notre Dame, Michigan State, etc.
Now ND leads for another major WR prospect from that part of the country (Scott). Obviously leads.
And you’ve found yet another way to attempt to be pessimistic and pretend that it’s somehow based in fact.
ND is currently recruiting at a Top5 level, btw.
#4 composite class in the nation
2nd most 5*/4* prospects, behind only Alabama
There you go again, expanding things to push a narrative... We're talking about top 100 guys and now you've expanded the conversation to the top 250. The midwest schools that offered were Notre Dame, Michigan State, Purdue and Illinois. No Michigan offer. No Ohio State offer. No Clemson offer. No Alabama offer. No Georgia offer.
Look, I like Braden Lenzy a lot. I think he's a poor man's Will Fuller and a very competitive kid... But this is not the the type of highly recruited, top 100 player, that we're talking about. How about this. Tell me who the last top 100 player ND landed out of the Pacific Northwest was? The reason I'm asking is to show that my point isn't "baseless", rather it will show that my argument is rooted in history. If ND were to land Gee Scott it would be a huge coup. Not the caliber of recruit ND usually pulls out of that region.
No, we were simply discussing highly rated players in general. No where did you qualify your comment about pulling a player out of the NW with “only a Top100”
But.... Tee Sheppard and Kevarie Russell were 2 more recruits at that level that we’ve landed from that region.
And ND clearly, obviously leads for Scott.
You’re comments attempting to downplay that are baseless pessimism, nothing else. Call you out as such, is entirely appropriate.
Like I said, ND has a Top 5 recruiting class right now, and the 2nd most 5*/4* recruits in the nation.
It’s fitting that you failed to acknowledge or respond to that.
No, we were simply discussing highly rated players in general. No where did you qualify your comment about pulling a player out of the NW with “only a Top100”
But.... Tee Sheppard and Kevarie Russell were 2 more recruits at that level that we’ve landed from that region.
And ND clearly, obviously leads for Scott.
You’re comments attempting to downplay that are baseless pessimism, nothing else. Call you out as such, is entirely appropriate.
Like I said, ND has a Top 5 recruiting class right now, and the 2nd most 5*/4* recruits in the nation.
It’s fitting that you failed to acknowledge or respond to that.
I specifically said "top kid from the Pacific Northwest". I thought that given that the topic is about the rivals 100 and the entire conversation in the thread to point of me saying that was about kids on the top 100 list, that "top" would be enough for people to know what I was talking about. Obviously not.
Tee Sheppard is from Fresno, California... Don't see how he's relavent here. Unless California is now in the Pacific Northwest.
Keivarae Russell wasn't a top 100 guy, but at #144 he was closer than Lenzy... But I'll chalk that up to us disgreeing on the definition of "top" relative to this thread.
As for your comment on where ND currently stands in recruiting... So what? It's June. They're currently ahead of Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Florida State.
Care to make $1000 wager (we can go $500 if you'd like instead) that ND is passed by at least 4 out of those 5 schools and finishes between 9-13 in the recruiting rankings on the 247 composite?
I kind of expect a drop in rankings by the end of the year. Make no mistake about this class is a top recruiting class. The reason we will drop is that we will probably not obtain any 5* kids. Unless we make a new years 6 game and/or the playoffs. Although I think that will help our 2020 class more than 2019 class. That said if you break the class down currently, we may and probably will have the best or top 3 o-line classes in the nation. If we close in on a couple of DE we probably have a top 3-10 D-line class. Also, as it looks if we close out LBers the way it looks we may have to 5-10 class there also. That said we should hear about a RB more than likely by the end of the week. He is not what we call a high 4 or a 5 star kid but a very solid high 3 star kid. That essentially leave room for 1 solid CB and a playmaking WR. As far as Safety's go I believe we are in the top 5 because of their upside and some mis-ranking. What are we possibly going to miss on? TE we can pass on them this year based on last years class and next years class. We should pursue a QB (he won't have the fanfare of Cade Mc.) but we may wiff there . This may or may not be a top 5 class in the end but it will be one of the best that Kelly has produced. And 2020 will be better unless this team in 2019 goes flat.
I don't have any major disagreements with what you wrote here Zona. My argument over the past few days is that ND has a really nice class as of now, but it lacks interest from the difference makers it takes to make a class elite. Those elite players make the difference between 9-3 or 10-2, and 11-1 and a trip to the playoffs. Last year ND landed the following players with a 0.9400 composite rating (which usually translates to about a top 150 player) or higher.
Houston Griffith
Kevin Austin
Phil Jurkovec
Shayne Simon
Jack Lamb
Derrik Allen
Jayson Ademilola
Look at those names. I guarantee you that most of those names (barring injury) will be some of the impact players for ND over the next 3-4 years.
In comparison, has only Nana Osafo-Mensah and Quinn Carroll who are as highly regarded in the 2019 class, and as of this moment, they aren't high on the list of any other players in the 2019 class that fit into that group. That said, I expect them to work their way up the lists of a couple top guys that aren't being talked about right now, it's just too early to speculate on who those guys will be.
I agree with you that ND does have a couple underrated guys that should be rated higher. Kyle Hamilton's ranking is criminal. Andrew Kristofic has 1st round NFL tools if he puts it all together... Despite that, I'm almost willing to promise (almost, only because miracles do happen) that I'd trade the top 10 players in the 2018 class for the top 10 players in the 2019 class when things are all said and done... What made 2018 unique is that ND landed STUDS at positions that it usually struggles to pull elite talent. Especially on defense. That was a testament to the job ND's defensive staff did recruiting.
How about a guy named Porter Rooks? Same high school Ekwonu. Pyne is a stud
IIO, you are correct we do not have that shock and awe guys in this class. But I am very happy with it. Actually, next years 2020 class may be the best yet. I realize it is early and urban, and saban have to gear it up with some these players but we will get some of these marque players. That said I am with you regarding the end of the year and it really depends on how well we do. That QB from Ontario that visited do you think he gets an offer if we wiff on the current options?
ND needs to be in it till the end with Bresee. He is a beastWould be awesome. Everyone wants him. He's already visited ND. We'll see if there is any traction in the future.
On the initial Rivals 100, Rooks is on my list of guys that I think ND should get a look from, based on what I know...
Drew Pyne
Bryan Bresee
Mekhail Sherman
Paris Johnson
Kevin Pyne
Porter Rooks
Gee Scott
AJ Henning
Aaryn Parks
Kalel Mullings
Trey Wedig
Turner Corcoran
Luke Wypler
I may be missing 1 or 2 but that's my first thought.
ND needs to be in it till the end with Bresee. He is a beast
It's sick. The NCAA has zero balls. You really think teams are still flat out paying kids to come?$$$$$$$$... The bidding war will likely win out. ND won't play that game and despite my criticism about their recruiting at times, I'm sure as hell glad they won't.
It's sick. The NCAA has zero balls. You really think teams are still flat out paying kids to come?
Yet our star players get the boot for skipping a rosary beadI know that kids are getting paid. I worked in recruiting on both sides of the 49th for a number of years. I've seen exactly how it works. Schools won't pay kids, usually. The Ole Miss thing isn't happening everywhere. Otherwise it would be easy to see and coaches around the country would be suffering Hugh Freeze's fate. The extra money they get comes in the from boosters, agents, and those associated with the program. Maybe nobody is putting money into the recruit's bank account on a monthly basis, but mom knows who to call when she needs rent money or money to pay the bills. Or my favorite. When the parent(s) of a kid who, couldn't afford to take an unofficial visit with their son out of state, have magically purchased him Mustang or Camaro by his sophomore year at an SEC school... Do you believe an often single mom from the inner city bought that car? Or did a dealership put into her name so she could gift it to her son?
I could go on forever about the depths of cheating and how the games are played.
I'll give you another example... Schools often offer jobs for students on their campus. Completely legitimate jobs that they are paid for. There is nothing wrong with a football player getting a summer job with the school. As long as the NCAA knows they have the job, the money isn't coming from the football program, they're simply working for the school. As a tour guide. In the sports facilities. With the custodial staff. There are lots of jobs like that. Most of them require a certain number of hours to be worked each week, for pay... There are schools across the country who have kids on their payroll for these types of jobs, but those kids have never spent a minute actually working. I've seen it go as far as a schedule, with said players name and shifts on it (a standard work schedule) and it was completely made up... Or even better. They work on behalf of sports services or the athletic department and are on "loan" too football. You know what they spend their 15 hours of work per week doing? Watching game film in their coaches' office... And nobody says a damn thing.
Yet our star players get the boot for skipping a rosary bead
The last top 100 pac north west player I recall is big bust Carlos Pierre AntwonThere you go again, expanding things to push a narrative... We're talking about top 100 guys and now you've expanded the conversation to the top 250. The midwest schools that offered were Notre Dame, Michigan State, Purdue and Illinois. No Michigan offer. No Ohio State offer. No Clemson offer. No Alabama offer. No Georgia offer.
Look, I like Braden Lenzy a lot. I think he's a poor man's Will Fuller and a very competitive kid... But this is not the the type of highly recruited, top 100 player, that we're talking about. How about this. Tell me who the last top 100 player ND landed out of the Pacific Northwest was? The reason I'm asking is to show that my point isn't "baseless", rather it will show that my argument is rooted in history. If ND were to land Gee Scott it would be a huge coup. Not the caliber of recruit ND usually pulls out of that region.
Did mine tonightyou got to work the beads to win some games.
I know that kids are getting paid. I worked in recruiting on both sides of the 49th for a number of years. I've seen exactly how it works. Schools won't pay kids, usually. The Ole Miss thing isn't happening everywhere. Otherwise it would be easy to see and coaches around the country would be suffering Hugh Freeze's fate. The extra money they get comes in the from boosters, agents, and those associated with the program. Maybe nobody is putting money into the recruit's bank account on a monthly basis, but mom knows who to call when she needs rent money or money to pay the bills. Or my favorite. When the parent(s) of a kid who, couldn't afford to take an unofficial visit with their son out of state, have magically purchased him Mustang or Camaro by his sophomore year at an SEC school... Do you believe an often single mom from the inner city bought that car? Or did a dealership put into her name so she could gift it to her son?
I could go on forever about the depths of cheating and how the games are played.
I'll give you another example... Schools often offer jobs for students on their campus. Completely legitimate jobs that they are paid for. There is nothing wrong with a football player getting a summer job with the school. As long as the NCAA knows they have the job, the money isn't coming from the football program, they're simply working for the school. As a tour guide. In the sports facilities. With the custodial staff. There are lots of jobs like that. Most of them require a certain number of hours to be worked each week, for pay... There are schools across the country who have kids on their payroll for these types of jobs, but those kids have never spent a minute actually working. I've seen it go as far as a schedule, with said players name and shifts on it (a standard work schedule) and it was completely made up... Or even better. They work on behalf of sports services or the athletic department and are on "loan" too football. You know what they spend their 15 hours of work per week doing? Watching game film in their coaches' office... And nobody says a damn thing.
I specifically said "top kid from the Pacific Northwest". I thought that given that the topic is about the rivals 100 and the entire conversation in the thread to point of me saying that was about kids on the top 100 list, that "top" would be enough for people to know what I was talking about. Obviously not.
Tee Sheppard is from Fresno, California... Don't see how he's relavent here. Unless California is now in the Pacific Northwest.
Keivarae Russell wasn't a top 100 guy, but at #144 he was closer than Lenzy... But I'll chalk that up to us disgreeing on the definition of "top" relative to this thread.
As for your comment on where ND currently stands in recruiting... So what? It's June. They're currently ahead of Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Florida State.
Care to make $1000 wager (we can go $500 if you'd like instead) that ND is passed by at least 4 out of those 5 schools and finishes between 9-13 in the recruiting rankings on the 247 composite?
I actually think we're doing okay last couple of years. Keep kids in school for 4-5 years. Continue to find guys who weren't top 100 players like Eifert, Martin, McGlinchey, Fuller, Adams, Kizer, Stanley, Tranquil, Harrison Smith, Riddick, Love, Coney, CJ, etc. and coach 'em up to be winners.
Of course we won't turn down top 100 guys like a Manti, or a Nelson or a Zeke Motta or J Smith or a Floyd or Tuitt, but we are never going to be able to bring in that many 5*.... (and we've had more than our share of top 100 busts.)
Our Lady is a special place. You have to go to class. You have to engage in the academics. Look, we have two Engineering Grads captaining our team this year. How often does that happen at Alabama or OSU. Don't mean to be smug but that is who we are...
Thanks as always for your analysis IIO and Friedman you have been a great addition. Just a note: you don't need to be so snarky. You can disagree without being snarky as you are obviously a smart guy who has done his homework.
Time for another cocktail out here in LA-LA land.
ND average composite rating will likely finish in the .9000 - .9100 range and that would put ND’s class in the 8-15 range.
ND average composite rating will likely finish in the .9000 - .9100 range and that would put ND’s class in the 8-15 range.
IIO forgot more about recruiting than most of us know here. a true expert. best advice is argue with others as you are way out of your league going against him. you 're low A ball. he's a big leaguer.No, we were simply discussing highly rated players in general. No where did you qualify your comment about pulling a player out of the NW with “only a Top100”
But.... Tee Sheppard and Kevarie Russell were 2 more recruits at that level that we’ve landed from that region.
And ND clearly, obviously leads for Scott.
You’re comments attempting to downplay that are baseless pessimism, nothing else. Call you out as such, is entirely appropriate.
Like I said, ND has a Top 5 recruiting class right now, and the 2nd most 5*/4* recruits in the nation.
It’s fitting that you failed to acknowledge or respond to that.
IIO forgot more about recruiting than most of us know here. a true expert. best advice is argue with others as you are way out of your league going against him. you 're low A ball. he's a big leaguer.
IIO forgot more about recruiting than most of us know here. a true expert. best advice is argue with others as you are way out of your league going against him. you 're low A ball. he's a big leaguer.
could not disagree more. he's a true proven commodity here over many years. premium boards are for suckers in my opinion. paying 9.95 a month doesn't make anyone more knowledgeable, just 9.95 poorer.Dude knows less about ND recruiting than 75% of premium board posters. Maybe less than 85%.
I have no problem arguing with anyone, but it's especially easy to argue with him.
could not disagree more. he's a true proven commodity here over many years. premium boards are for suckers in my opinion. paying 9.95 a month doesn't make anyone more knowledgeable, just 9.95 poorer.
It's never one thing, but there are 3 coaches on this current staff that I personally think are average or sub par recruiters.
During the winter, people were up in arms when I talked about how huge of a loss Tony Alford was. A lot of guys can coach running backs. Mostly, you are teaching them pass blocking schemes, drilling ball security and run tracks, but the rest is up to them and their god given ability. Therefore, if you look around the country, most RB coaches are top notch recruiters, because they have the time and resources to focus on recruiting. I've not been shy in sharing my opinion that Alford was an enormous loss because of what he brought to the table as a recruiter vs what ND is getting out of Denson.