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2020 Rivals 100

Drew Pyne clecks in at number 37


Kevin Pyne (OT) is a probable 5* that we appear to lead for.

Gee Scott (WR) and AJ Henning (APB) are Top100 players that we appear to lead for as well.

Plus we have a good shot at TON of other top players in that class right now.

A big 2018 season could setup for a massive 2020 recruiting class
 
Kevin Pyne (OT) is a probable 5* that we appear to lead for.

Gee Scott (WR) and AJ Henning (APB) are Top100 players that we appear to lead for as well.

Plus we have a good shot at TON of other top players in that class right now.

A big 2018 season could setup for a massive 2020 recruiting class

We have a lot offers out and it certainly bodes well for recruiting. Appreciate your info even though I criticized you in the past
 
Kevin Pyne (OT) is a probable 5* that we appear to lead for.

Gee Scott (WR) and AJ Henning (APB) are Top100 players that we appear to lead for as well.

Plus we have a good shot at TON of other top players in that class right now.

A big 2018 season could setup for a massive 2020 recruiting class

It is assumed that ND leads for Pyne because he's Drew's cousin... While that may very well be true (it makes logical sense) has Pyne ever actually stated that ND leads? I haven't seen that.

ND probably leads for AJ Henning, but the big dogs are just now getting in the race. We'll see if ND actually leads heading into the season, when Ohio State, etc, pick up the pressure in his recruitment.

How many times have we heard that ND was the "leader" for a top kid from the Pacific Northwest, only to see him end up staying on the West Coast? I'll believe that Gee Scott is coming to Notre Dame when he faxes in his LOI two February's from now.

Outside of Drew Pyne, who is a great early pickup, the guys that I think ND will be most in play for on the early Rivals 100 list are...

APB AJ Henning
OT Kevin Pyne
OT Turner Corcoran
OT Trey Wedig
LB Kalel Mullings
 
It is assumed that ND leads for Pyne because he's Drew's cousin... While that may very well be true (it makes logical sense) has Pyne ever actually stated that ND leads? I haven't seen that.

ND probably leads for AJ Henning, but the big dogs are just now getting in the race. We'll see if ND actually leads heading into the season, when Ohio State, etc, pick up the pressure in his recruitment.

How many times have we heard that ND was the "leader" for a top kid from the Pacific Northwest, only to see him end up staying on the West Coast? I'll believe that Gee Scott is coming to Notre Dame when he faxes in his LOI two February's from now.

Outside of Drew Pyne, who is a great early pickup, the guys that I think ND will be most in play for on the early Rivals 100 list are...

APB AJ Henning
OT Kevin Pyne
OT Turner Corcoran
OT Trey Wedig
LB Kalel Mullings

You’re welcome to your baseless pessimism, as always.

But it’s just as baseless as ever.

No. Kevin Pyne has not said expressly that ND is his number 1 school...but literally everyone in CFB knows that it’s down to ND/Mich with ND leading.

Likewise, Henning has had “big dogs” after him for his entire recruitment. His recruitment is actually winding down now.
He may well have committed to ND before the start of the season.

And we literally just landed a coveted WR from the Pacific NW (Lenzy) and we clearly, obviously lead for Scott.

But as always, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want to believe.
 
You’re welcome to your baseless pessimism, as always.

But it’s just as baseless as ever.

No. Kevin Pyne has not said expressly that ND is his number 1 school...but literally everyone in CFB knows that it’s down to ND/Mich with ND leading.

Likewise, Henning has had “big dogs” after him for his entire recruitment. His recruitment is actually winding down now.
He may well have committed to ND before the start of the season.

And we literally just landed a coveted WR from the Pacific NW (Lenzy) and we clearly, obviously lead for Scott.

But as always, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want to believe.

Baseless Pessimism? That's the 3rd time in a couple days that you've made that point and I don't understand it.

I think recent history (the entire Brian Kelly era) would suggest that my questioning ND's "lead" for top prospects two classes from now is grounded more in realism than pessimism.

Braden Lenzy was the composite #215 player in the country. Did he even make the Rivals 250 list? He wasn't even a national recruit. The schools on the West Coast wanted him, but he wasn't pursued by the Southern schools, nor Ohio State, Michigan, etc, etc... He is not an example of a top 100 guy (such as the guys on the list we are discussing) that left the West Coast to come to Notre Dame... You're trying to create a narrative there that isn't accurate.

Forgive me for wanting to see Brian Kelly's staff actually recruit at a top 5 level before I'm optimistic that they will...
 
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Baseless Pessimism? That's the 3rd time in a couple days that you've made that point and I don't understand it.

I think recent history (the entire Brian Kelly era) would suggest that my questioning ND's "lead" for top prospects two classes from now is grounded more in realism than pessimism.

Braden Lenzy was the composite #215 player in the country. Did he even make the Rivals 250 list? He wasn't even a national recruit. The schools on the West Coast wanted him, but he wasn't pursued by the Southern schools, nor Ohio State, Michigan, etc, etc... He is not an example of a top 100 guy (such as the guys on the list we are discussing) that left the West Coast to come to Notre Dame... You're trying to create a narrative there that isn't accurate.

Forgive me for wanting to see Brian Kelly's staff actually recruit at a top 5 level before I'm optimistic that they will...

When that’s what your “opinions” show, that’s what I’ll point out.

Baseless pessimism.

As you said, Lenzy was a composite Top250 recruit from the Pacific Northwest that we literally just signed. He had offers from every major west coast school, including USC, as well as Midwest schools like Notre Dame, Michigan State, etc.

Now ND leads for another major WR prospect from that part of the country (Scott). Obviously leads.

And you’ve found yet another way to attempt to be pessimistic and pretend that it’s somehow based in fact.





ND is currently recruiting at a Top5 level, btw.
#4 composite class in the nation
2nd most 5*/4* prospects, behind only Alabama
 
When that’s what your “opinions” show, that’s what I’ll point out.

Baseless pessimism.

As you said, Lenzy was a composite Top250 recruit from the Pacific Northwest that we literally just signed. He had offers from every major west coast school, including USC, as well as Midwest schools like Notre Dame, Michigan State, etc.

Now ND leads for another major WR prospect from that part of the country (Scott). Obviously leads.

And you’ve found yet another way to attempt to be pessimistic and pretend that it’s somehow based in fact.





ND is currently recruiting at a Top5 level, btw.
#4 composite class in the nation
2nd most 5*/4* prospects, behind only Alabama

There you go again, expanding things to push a narrative... We're talking about top 100 guys and now you've expanded the conversation to the top 250. The midwest schools that offered were Notre Dame, Michigan State, Purdue and Illinois. No Michigan offer. No Ohio State offer. No Clemson offer. No Alabama offer. No Georgia offer.

Look, I like Braden Lenzy a lot. I think he's a poor man's Will Fuller and a very competitive kid... But this is not the the type of highly recruited, top 100 player, that we're talking about. How about this. Tell me who the last top 100 player ND landed out of the Pacific Northwest was? The reason I'm asking is to show that my point isn't "baseless", rather it will show that my argument is rooted in history. If ND were to land Gee Scott it would be a huge coup. Not the caliber of recruit ND usually pulls out of that region.
 
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There you go again, expanding things to push a narrative... We're talking about top 100 guys and now you've expanded the conversation to the top 250. The midwest schools that offered were Notre Dame, Michigan State, Purdue and Illinois. No Michigan offer. No Ohio State offer. No Clemson offer. No Alabama offer. No Georgia offer.

Look, I like Braden Lenzy a lot. I think he's a poor man's Will Fuller and a very competitive kid... But this is not the the type of highly recruited, top 100 player, that we're talking about. How about this. Tell me who the last top 100 player ND landed out of the Pacific Northwest was? The reason I'm asking is to show that my point isn't "baseless", rather it will show that my argument is rooted in history. If ND were to land Gee Scott it would be a huge coup. Not the caliber of recruit ND usually pulls out of that region.

No, we were simply discussing highly rated players in general. No where did you qualify your comment about pulling a player out of the NW with “only a Top100”

But.... Tee Sheppard and Kevarie Russell were 2 more recruits at that level that we’ve landed from that region.

And ND clearly, obviously leads for Scott.

You’re comments attempting to downplay that are baseless pessimism, nothing else. Call you out as such, is entirely appropriate.




Like I said, ND has a Top 5 recruiting class right now, and the 2nd most 5*/4* recruits in the nation.

It’s fitting that you failed to acknowledge or respond to that.
 
No, we were simply discussing highly rated players in general. No where did you qualify your comment about pulling a player out of the NW with “only a Top100”

But.... Tee Sheppard and Kevarie Russell were 2 more recruits at that level that we’ve landed from that region.

And ND clearly, obviously leads for Scott.

You’re comments attempting to downplay that are baseless pessimism, nothing else. Call you out as such, is entirely appropriate.




Like I said, ND has a Top 5 recruiting class right now, and the 2nd most 5*/4* recruits in the nation.

It’s fitting that you failed to acknowledge or respond to that.

I am not sure they finish top 5 but certainly that will happen if we go to a new years 6 game especially if we make the playoffs
 
No, we were simply discussing highly rated players in general. No where did you qualify your comment about pulling a player out of the NW with “only a Top100”

But.... Tee Sheppard and Kevarie Russell were 2 more recruits at that level that we’ve landed from that region.

And ND clearly, obviously leads for Scott.

You’re comments attempting to downplay that are baseless pessimism, nothing else. Call you out as such, is entirely appropriate.




Like I said, ND has a Top 5 recruiting class right now, and the 2nd most 5*/4* recruits in the nation.

It’s fitting that you failed to acknowledge or respond to that.

I specifically said "top kid from the Pacific Northwest". I thought that given that the topic is about the rivals 100 and the entire conversation in the thread to point of me saying that was about kids on the top 100 list, that "top" would be enough for people to know what I was talking about. Obviously not.

Tee Sheppard is from Fresno, California... Don't see how he's relavent here. Unless California is now in the Pacific Northwest.

Keivarae Russell wasn't a top 100 guy, but at #144 he was closer than Lenzy... But I'll chalk that up to us disgreeing on the definition of "top" relative to this thread.

As for your comment on where ND currently stands in recruiting... So what? It's June. They're currently ahead of Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Florida State.

Care to make $1000 wager (we can go $500 if you'd like instead) that ND is passed by at least 4 out of those 5 schools and finishes between 9-13 in the recruiting rankings on the 247 composite?
 
I specifically said "top kid from the Pacific Northwest". I thought that given that the topic is about the rivals 100 and the entire conversation in the thread to point of me saying that was about kids on the top 100 list, that "top" would be enough for people to know what I was talking about. Obviously not.

Tee Sheppard is from Fresno, California... Don't see how he's relavent here. Unless California is now in the Pacific Northwest.

Keivarae Russell wasn't a top 100 guy, but at #144 he was closer than Lenzy... But I'll chalk that up to us disgreeing on the definition of "top" relative to this thread.

As for your comment on where ND currently stands in recruiting... So what? It's June. They're currently ahead of Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Florida State.

Care to make $1000 wager (we can go $500 if you'd like instead) that ND is passed by at least 4 out of those 5 schools and finishes between 9-13 in the recruiting rankings on the 247 composite?

I kind of expect a drop in rankings by the end of the year. Make no mistake about this class is a top recruiting class. The reason we will drop is that we will probably not obtain any 5* kids. Unless we make a new years 6 game and/or the playoffs. Although I think that will help our 2020 class more than 2019 class. That said if you break the class down currently, we may and probably will have the best or top 3 o-line classes in the nation. If we close in on a couple of DE we probably have a top 3-10 D-line class. Also, as it looks if we close out LBers the way it looks we may have to 5-10 class there also. That said we should hear about a RB more than likely by the end of the week. He is not what we call a high 4 or a 5 star kid but a very solid high 3 star kid. That essentially leave room for 1 solid CB and a playmaking WR. As far as Safety's go I believe we are in the top 5 because of their upside and some mis-ranking. What are we possibly going to miss on? TE we can pass on them this year based on last years class and next years class. We should pursue a QB (he won't have the fanfare of Cade Mc.) but we may wiff there . This may or may not be a top 5 class in the end but it will be one of the best that Kelly has produced. And 2020 will be better unless this team in 2019 goes flat.
 
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I kind of expect a drop in rankings by the end of the year. Make no mistake about this class is a top recruiting class. The reason we will drop is that we will probably not obtain any 5* kids. Unless we make a new years 6 game and/or the playoffs. Although I think that will help our 2020 class more than 2019 class. That said if you break the class down currently, we may and probably will have the best or top 3 o-line classes in the nation. If we close in on a couple of DE we probably have a top 3-10 D-line class. Also, as it looks if we close out LBers the way it looks we may have to 5-10 class there also. That said we should hear about a RB more than likely by the end of the week. He is not what we call a high 4 or a 5 star kid but a very solid high 3 star kid. That essentially leave room for 1 solid CB and a playmaking WR. As far as Safety's go I believe we are in the top 5 because of their upside and some mis-ranking. What are we possibly going to miss on? TE we can pass on them this year based on last years class and next years class. We should pursue a QB (he won't have the fanfare of Cade Mc.) but we may wiff there . This may or may not be a top 5 class in the end but it will be one of the best that Kelly has produced. And 2020 will be better unless this team in 2019 goes flat.

I don't have any major disagreements with what you wrote here Zona. My argument over the past few days is that ND has a really nice class as of now, but it lacks interest from the difference makers it takes to make a class elite. Those elite players make the difference between 9-3 or 10-2, and 11-1 and a trip to the playoffs. Last year ND landed the following players with a 0.9400 composite rating (which usually translates to about a top 150 player) or higher.

Houston Griffith
Kevin Austin
Phil Jurkovec
Shayne Simon
Jack Lamb
Derrik Allen
Jayson Ademilola

Look at those names. I guarantee you that most of those names (barring injury) will be some of the impact players for ND over the next 3-4 years.

In comparison, has only Nana Osafo-Mensah and Quinn Carroll who are as highly regarded in the 2019 class, and as of this moment, they aren't high on the list of any other players in the 2019 class that fit into that group. That said, I expect them to work their way up the lists of a couple top guys that aren't being talked about right now, it's just too early to speculate on who those guys will be.

I agree with you that ND does have a couple underrated guys that should be rated higher. Kyle Hamilton's ranking is criminal. Andrew Kristofic has 1st round NFL tools if he puts it all together... Despite that, I'm almost willing to promise (almost, only because miracles do happen) that I'd trade the top 10 players in the 2018 class for the top 10 players in the 2019 class when things are all said and done... What made 2018 unique is that ND landed STUDS at positions that it usually struggles to pull elite talent. Especially on defense. That was a testament to the job ND's defensive staff did recruiting.
 
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I don't have any major disagreements with what you wrote here Zona. My argument over the past few days is that ND has a really nice class as of now, but it lacks interest from the difference makers it takes to make a class elite. Those elite players make the difference between 9-3 or 10-2, and 11-1 and a trip to the playoffs. Last year ND landed the following players with a 0.9400 composite rating (which usually translates to about a top 150 player) or higher.

Houston Griffith
Kevin Austin
Phil Jurkovec
Shayne Simon
Jack Lamb
Derrik Allen
Jayson Ademilola

Look at those names. I guarantee you that most of those names (barring injury) will be some of the impact players for ND over the next 3-4 years.

In comparison, has only Nana Osafo-Mensah and Quinn Carroll who are as highly regarded in the 2019 class, and as of this moment, they aren't high on the list of any other players in the 2019 class that fit into that group. That said, I expect them to work their way up the lists of a couple top guys that aren't being talked about right now, it's just too early to speculate on who those guys will be.

I agree with you that ND does have a couple underrated guys that should be rated higher. Kyle Hamilton's ranking is criminal. Andrew Kristofic has 1st round NFL tools if he puts it all together... Despite that, I'm almost willing to promise (almost, only because miracles do happen) that I'd trade the top 10 players in the 2018 class for the top 10 players in the 2019 class when things are all said and done... What made 2018 unique is that ND landed STUDS at positions that it usually struggles to pull elite talent. Especially on defense. That was a testament to the job ND's defensive staff did recruiting.

IIO, you are correct we do not have that shock and awe guys in this class. But I am very happy with it. Actually, next years 2020 class may be the best yet. I realize it is early and urban, and saban have to gear it up with some these players but we will get some of these marque players. That said I am with you regarding the end of the year and it really depends on how well we do. That QB from Ontario that visited do you think he gets an offer if we wiff on the current options?
 
How about a guy named Porter Rooks? Same high school Ekwonu. Pyne is a stud

Would be awesome. Everyone wants him. He's already visited ND. We'll see if there is any traction in the future.

On the initial Rivals 100, Rooks is on my list of guys that I think ND should get a look from, based on what I know...

Drew Pyne
Bryan Bresee
Mekhail Sherman
Paris Johnson
Kevin Pyne
Porter Rooks
Gee Scott
AJ Henning
Aaryn Parks
Kalel Mullings
Trey Wedig
Turner Corcoran
Luke Wypler

I may be missing 1 or 2 but that's my first thought.
 
IIO, you are correct we do not have that shock and awe guys in this class. But I am very happy with it. Actually, next years 2020 class may be the best yet. I realize it is early and urban, and saban have to gear it up with some these players but we will get some of these marque players. That said I am with you regarding the end of the year and it really depends on how well we do. That QB from Ontario that visited do you think he gets an offer if we wiff on the current options?

Hmmm... I have major questions about his competition and I don't see ND taking another QB along with Drew Pyne. Next year is loaded at QB. I think ND would find another American kid who has a better pedigree.
 
Would be awesome. Everyone wants him. He's already visited ND. We'll see if there is any traction in the future.

On the initial Rivals 100, Rooks is on my list of guys that I think ND should get a look from, based on what I know...

Drew Pyne
Bryan Bresee
Mekhail Sherman
Paris Johnson
Kevin Pyne
Porter Rooks
Gee Scott
AJ Henning
Aaryn Parks
Kalel Mullings
Trey Wedig
Turner Corcoran
Luke Wypler

I may be missing 1 or 2 but that's my first thought.
ND needs to be in it till the end with Bresee. He is a beast
 
ND needs to be in it till the end with Bresee. He is a beast

$$$$$$$$... The bidding war will likely win out. ND won't play that game and despite my criticism about their recruiting at times, I'm sure as hell glad they won't.
 
$$$$$$$$... The bidding war will likely win out. ND won't play that game and despite my criticism about their recruiting at times, I'm sure as hell glad they won't.
It's sick. The NCAA has zero balls. You really think teams are still flat out paying kids to come?
 
It's sick. The NCAA has zero balls. You really think teams are still flat out paying kids to come?

I know that kids are getting paid. I worked in recruiting on both sides of the 49th for a number of years. I've seen exactly how it works. Schools won't pay kids, usually. The Ole Miss thing isn't happening everywhere. Otherwise it would be easy to see and coaches around the country would be suffering Hugh Freeze's fate. The extra money they get comes in the from boosters, agents, and those associated with the program. Maybe nobody is putting money into the recruit's bank account on a monthly basis, but mom knows who to call when she needs rent money or money to pay the bills. Or my favorite. When the parent(s) of a kid who, couldn't afford to take an unofficial visit with their son out of state, have magically purchased him Mustang or Camaro by his sophomore year at an SEC school... Do you believe an often single mom from the inner city bought that car? Or did a dealership put into her name so she could gift it to her son?

I could go on forever about the depths of cheating and how the games are played.

I'll give you another example... Schools often offer jobs for students on their campus. Completely legitimate jobs that they are paid for. There is nothing wrong with a football player getting a summer job with the school. As long as the NCAA knows they have the job, the money isn't coming from the football program, they're simply working for the school. As a tour guide. In the sports facilities. With the custodial staff. There are lots of jobs like that. Most of them require a certain number of hours to be worked each week, for pay... There are schools across the country who have kids on their payroll for these types of jobs, but those kids have never spent a minute actually working. I've seen it go as far as a schedule, with said players name and shifts on it (a standard work schedule) and it was completely made up... Or even better. They work on behalf of sports services or the athletic department and are on "loan" too football. You know what they spend their 15 hours of work per week doing? Watching game film in their coaches' office... And nobody says a damn thing.
 
I know that kids are getting paid. I worked in recruiting on both sides of the 49th for a number of years. I've seen exactly how it works. Schools won't pay kids, usually. The Ole Miss thing isn't happening everywhere. Otherwise it would be easy to see and coaches around the country would be suffering Hugh Freeze's fate. The extra money they get comes in the from boosters, agents, and those associated with the program. Maybe nobody is putting money into the recruit's bank account on a monthly basis, but mom knows who to call when she needs rent money or money to pay the bills. Or my favorite. When the parent(s) of a kid who, couldn't afford to take an unofficial visit with their son out of state, have magically purchased him Mustang or Camaro by his sophomore year at an SEC school... Do you believe an often single mom from the inner city bought that car? Or did a dealership put into her name so she could gift it to her son?

I could go on forever about the depths of cheating and how the games are played.

I'll give you another example... Schools often offer jobs for students on their campus. Completely legitimate jobs that they are paid for. There is nothing wrong with a football player getting a summer job with the school. As long as the NCAA knows they have the job, the money isn't coming from the football program, they're simply working for the school. As a tour guide. In the sports facilities. With the custodial staff. There are lots of jobs like that. Most of them require a certain number of hours to be worked each week, for pay... There are schools across the country who have kids on their payroll for these types of jobs, but those kids have never spent a minute actually working. I've seen it go as far as a schedule, with said players name and shifts on it (a standard work schedule) and it was completely made up... Or even better. They work on behalf of sports services or the athletic department and are on "loan" too football. You know what they spend their 15 hours of work per week doing? Watching game film in their coaches' office... And nobody says a damn thing.
Yet our star players get the boot for skipping a rosary bead
 
There you go again, expanding things to push a narrative... We're talking about top 100 guys and now you've expanded the conversation to the top 250. The midwest schools that offered were Notre Dame, Michigan State, Purdue and Illinois. No Michigan offer. No Ohio State offer. No Clemson offer. No Alabama offer. No Georgia offer.

Look, I like Braden Lenzy a lot. I think he's a poor man's Will Fuller and a very competitive kid... But this is not the the type of highly recruited, top 100 player, that we're talking about. How about this. Tell me who the last top 100 player ND landed out of the Pacific Northwest was? The reason I'm asking is to show that my point isn't "baseless", rather it will show that my argument is rooted in history. If ND were to land Gee Scott it would be a huge coup. Not the caliber of recruit ND usually pulls out of that region.
The last top 100 pac north west player I recall is big bust Carlos Pierre Antwon
 
I actually think we're doing okay last couple of years. Keep kids in school for 4-5 years. Continue to find guys who weren't top 100 players like Eifert, Martin, McGlinchey, Fuller, Adams, Kizer, Stanley, Tranquil, Harrison Smith, Riddick, Love, Coney, CJ, etc. and coach 'em up to be winners.

Of course we won't turn down top 100 guys like a Manti, or a Nelson or a Zeke Motta or J Smith or a Floyd or Tuitt, but we are never going to be able to bring in that many 5*.... (and we've had more than our share of top 100 busts.)

Our Lady is a special place. You have to go to class. You have to engage in the academics. Look, we have two Engineering Grads captaining our team this year. How often does that happen at Alabama or OSU. Don't mean to be smug but that is who we are...

Thanks as always for your analysis IIO and Friedman you have been a great addition. Just a note: you don't need to be so snarky. You can disagree without being snarky as you are obviously a smart guy who has done his homework.

Time for another cocktail out here in LA-LA land.
 
I know that kids are getting paid. I worked in recruiting on both sides of the 49th for a number of years. I've seen exactly how it works. Schools won't pay kids, usually. The Ole Miss thing isn't happening everywhere. Otherwise it would be easy to see and coaches around the country would be suffering Hugh Freeze's fate. The extra money they get comes in the from boosters, agents, and those associated with the program. Maybe nobody is putting money into the recruit's bank account on a monthly basis, but mom knows who to call when she needs rent money or money to pay the bills. Or my favorite. When the parent(s) of a kid who, couldn't afford to take an unofficial visit with their son out of state, have magically purchased him Mustang or Camaro by his sophomore year at an SEC school... Do you believe an often single mom from the inner city bought that car? Or did a dealership put into her name so she could gift it to her son?

I could go on forever about the depths of cheating and how the games are played.

I'll give you another example... Schools often offer jobs for students on their campus. Completely legitimate jobs that they are paid for. There is nothing wrong with a football player getting a summer job with the school. As long as the NCAA knows they have the job, the money isn't coming from the football program, they're simply working for the school. As a tour guide. In the sports facilities. With the custodial staff. There are lots of jobs like that. Most of them require a certain number of hours to be worked each week, for pay... There are schools across the country who have kids on their payroll for these types of jobs, but those kids have never spent a minute actually working. I've seen it go as far as a schedule, with said players name and shifts on it (a standard work schedule) and it was completely made up... Or even better. They work on behalf of sports services or the athletic department and are on "loan" too football. You know what they spend their 15 hours of work per week doing? Watching game film in their coaches' office... And nobody says a damn thing.

Kids are absolutly getting paid. I witnessed many teammates getting paid while playing basketball for the Illinois warriors aau basketball team. I have a friend from the south that attended duke. He was raised by his mom who had a highschool education and was dirt poor. When he attended duke he had a new Nissan Altima tricked out with dvd system. This was back in early 2000s so was very expensive. His mom became a admin assistant at a prestigious law firm and earned a impressive 6 figure salary and bought a what I guess to be $200000+ home in Durham. I have no doubt the coaching staff has nothing to do with anything like this that goes on with its players. It is all donor driven and plausible deniability protects them from kids turning on a program. This happened at basketball school. Everybody knows that football pays the bills and donors are crazy when it comes to their alma maters. Imagine if that goes on at Duke then what goes on at sec schools.
 
I specifically said "top kid from the Pacific Northwest". I thought that given that the topic is about the rivals 100 and the entire conversation in the thread to point of me saying that was about kids on the top 100 list, that "top" would be enough for people to know what I was talking about. Obviously not.

Tee Sheppard is from Fresno, California... Don't see how he's relavent here. Unless California is now in the Pacific Northwest.

Keivarae Russell wasn't a top 100 guy, but at #144 he was closer than Lenzy... But I'll chalk that up to us disgreeing on the definition of "top" relative to this thread.

As for your comment on where ND currently stands in recruiting... So what? It's June. They're currently ahead of Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Florida State.

Care to make $1000 wager (we can go $500 if you'd like instead) that ND is passed by at least 4 out of those 5 schools and finishes between 9-13 in the recruiting rankings on the 247 composite?


ND average composite rating will likely finish in the .9000 - .9100 range and that would put ND’s class in the 8-15 range.
 
I actually think we're doing okay last couple of years. Keep kids in school for 4-5 years. Continue to find guys who weren't top 100 players like Eifert, Martin, McGlinchey, Fuller, Adams, Kizer, Stanley, Tranquil, Harrison Smith, Riddick, Love, Coney, CJ, etc. and coach 'em up to be winners.

Of course we won't turn down top 100 guys like a Manti, or a Nelson or a Zeke Motta or J Smith or a Floyd or Tuitt, but we are never going to be able to bring in that many 5*.... (and we've had more than our share of top 100 busts.)

Our Lady is a special place. You have to go to class. You have to engage in the academics. Look, we have two Engineering Grads captaining our team this year. How often does that happen at Alabama or OSU. Don't mean to be smug but that is who we are...

Thanks as always for your analysis IIO and Friedman you have been a great addition. Just a note: you don't need to be so snarky. You can disagree without being snarky as you are obviously a smart guy who has done his homework.

Time for another cocktail out here in LA-LA land.

Stu, I think ND has figured out a good recipe for success. They are doing a really good job of identifying program fits and taking appropriate chances.

They're also doing a better job of finding athletes that are underrated.

ND average composite rating will likely finish in the .9000 - .9100 range and that would put ND’s class in the 8-15 range.

Yep. I have them in the 9-13 range, so my range falls inside yours.
 
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Yeah, IIO -- I went back to out last top 5 finishes:
  • #2 2008 when we had 6 top 100 players... Rudolf, Crist, Floyd, E Johnson, Jonas Gray, Trevor Robinson and although not all panned out either because of injuries... More than half had a real effect on the team.
  • #3 2013 when everything went wrong... of the 6 top 100 players only Elmer and J Smith panned out. Bryant (rip), Redfield, Vanderdoes (!), and Montelus were busts at ND.
After that we've settled into the 10-ish spot... hoping to develop talent down the list...

But I agree, it would be nice to find a Rudolf, a Floyd, a Nelson and J Smith more often... I do believe ND is going after those guys but the competition is so great and we do ask a lot of our athletes in the classroom.

Any idea of a fix? Is there a spot on the coaching staff we can upgrade re: recruiting?

I do worry about the dearth of WR and RB talent so far this year....
 
And, to be honest, Rudolf, since he left after junior year, really didn't have the kind of effect we all hoped at ND. A lot of elite schools deal with this kind of attrition all the time! Floyd, Eifert, Manti, Nelson, McG all stayed for their 4th or 5th year. Keeping kids at ND for their 4th/5th year is key.
 
ND average composite rating will likely finish in the .9000 - .9100 range and that would put ND’s class in the 8-15 range.

Composite is being pulled down by a punter, who some sites haven’t even evaluated yet.

ND won’t be taking more punters, and his composite rating will go up once sites like rivals assign him a rating.

ND is likely to finish above 91.0 in terms of 247 composite rating.
 
No, we were simply discussing highly rated players in general. No where did you qualify your comment about pulling a player out of the NW with “only a Top100”

But.... Tee Sheppard and Kevarie Russell were 2 more recruits at that level that we’ve landed from that region.

And ND clearly, obviously leads for Scott.

You’re comments attempting to downplay that are baseless pessimism, nothing else. Call you out as such, is entirely appropriate.




Like I said, ND has a Top 5 recruiting class right now, and the 2nd most 5*/4* recruits in the nation.

It’s fitting that you failed to acknowledge or respond to that.
IIO forgot more about recruiting than most of us know here. a true expert. best advice is argue with others as you are way out of your league going against him. you 're low A ball. he's a big leaguer.
 
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IIO forgot more about recruiting than most of us know here. a true expert. best advice is argue with others as you are way out of your league going against him. you 're low A ball. he's a big leaguer.

Dude knows less about ND recruiting than 75% of premium board posters. Maybe less than 85%.

I have no problem arguing with anyone, but it's especially easy to argue with him.
 
Dude knows less about ND recruiting than 75% of premium board posters. Maybe less than 85%.

I have no problem arguing with anyone, but it's especially easy to argue with him.
could not disagree more. he's a true proven commodity here over many years. premium boards are for suckers in my opinion. paying 9.95 a month doesn't make anyone more knowledgeable, just 9.95 poorer.
 
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could not disagree more. he's a true proven commodity here over many years. premium boards are for suckers in my opinion. paying 9.95 a month doesn't make anyone more knowledgeable, just 9.95 poorer.

Until you're on both boards, comparing the current posters on each, you're opinion is less than worthless.

@IrishInOntario just doesn't know that much about ND recruiting, obviously, and is wrong about as often as he's right.

He's at or below average knowledge compared to current premium board posters

That's just reality.
 
It's never one thing, but there are 3 coaches on this current staff that I personally think are average or sub par recruiters.

During the winter, people were up in arms when I talked about how huge of a loss Tony Alford was. A lot of guys can coach running backs. Mostly, you are teaching them pass blocking schemes, drilling ball security and run tracks, but the rest is up to them and their god given ability. Therefore, if you look around the country, most RB coaches are top notch recruiters, because they have the time and resources to focus on recruiting. I've not been shy in sharing my opinion that Alford was an enormous loss because of what he brought to the table as a recruiter vs what ND is getting out of Denson.
 
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It's never one thing, but there are 3 coaches on this current staff that I personally think are average or sub par recruiters.

During the winter, people were up in arms when I talked about how huge of a loss Tony Alford was. A lot of guys can coach running backs. Mostly, you are teaching them pass blocking schemes, drilling ball security and run tracks, but the rest is up to them and their god given ability. Therefore, if you look around the country, most RB coaches are top notch recruiters, because they have the time and resources to focus on recruiting. I've not been shy in sharing my opinion that Alford was an enormous loss because of what he brought to the table as a recruiter vs what ND is getting out of Denson.

I agree 100% that Denson has been a MAJOR liability as a recruiter, and that RB coaches who develop RBs ONLY are a dime a dozen.

Alford was a good coach and recruiter, and the droppoff to Denson's recruiting is large.
But there are a lot of other good RB coaches out there beside Alford too.

Alford and Rees are really the only "recruiting liabilities" I see on this staff, at the moment.
 
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