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It's been said and I'll say it again the 2nd and 1 play call was absolutely HORRIBLE

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echowaker said:
Disagree. It was the perfect call against the defensive set. Double post with your fastest receiver in single coverage. It was a no brainer . When you get the match up you want you have to try and exploit it. Great call, lousy execution.
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I agree I think it was a good call, the play failed because of execution not because of the play itself !
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Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

NDinNJ
Get Nasty said:
This is no longer amateur athletics, these are paid professionals now. The best player will not always play, the player that has the biggest contract will get the PT and the ship will sink with them. Riley is NDs highest paid player by far, that's why he's playing.
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and the ND collective could have saved that money they gave Leonard and pushed it toward sealing Deuce Knights commitment.
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It's been said and I'll say it again the 2nd and 1 play call was absolutely HORRIBLE

savvyandsassier
banmate6 said:
Soccer has so called X statistics. Basically the probability of an assist or goal happening...derived through exhaustive data an AI. You know if an attempted play is a smart or dumb play, with some contextual adjustment.

I'm not sure if football has this. But man, that play call seems glaringly dumb. Late, 1 point lead, needing to burn clock, a poorly performing QB? Really? I bet some stats would argue against this.

As I keep saying, I am no Xs and Os expert. But even I see what a terrible call that was. Necessitating near perfect execution, which seemed improbable and risky.

Finally, you can always generally claim execution on any play. In any sport. Hence being judicious.

Banal stuff.

;)
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If there was ever sport seemingly that AI would be ripe to take over, like with play calling for instance, football is seemingly it. Or maybe not though, maybe football is a sport that is almost infinitely complicated, in its own unquantifiable way. And you're better off with a wonky coach who totally knows the playbook himself back to front, indeed who probably wrote it himself, and can tap his own intuition whenever he feels the impulse, or his survival sense kicks in and he knows just when to defy the statistical imperative of that particular down and distance. And which is solely the province of organic human intelligence, and a computer will never possess it. Despite what the evangelists say.

But in order to save money they might just fire the coach, and replace him with an AI system. At least the coordinators.
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Leonard , Greathouse and Freeman are done.

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mbd11 said:
It wasn't the D's best game, but at the end of the day, we gave up 16 pts. You should be able to win when you give up 16 pts. Last year, we beat CMU, 41-17. And nobody cared that we gave up 17, because we scored 41. Penn State allowed 27 pts to Bowling Green Saturday. But they won, because they scored 34.

So the offense was a much bigger problem than the defense IMO.
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People care about how bad PSU played and want franklin gone.

CMU had about 250 yds we had 580. That's what you expect when you have a so so day vs a low level team. Just like Bama this past week was playing like crap but took over and whipped them late. We had the opportunity to do that, but Riley crapped the bed.
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Leonard , Greathouse and Freeman are done.

H
mbd11 said:
It wasn't the D's best game, but at the end of the day, we gave up 16 pts. You should be able to win when you give up 16 pts. Last year, we beat CMU, 41-17. And nobody cared that we gave up 17, because we scored 41. Penn State allowed 27 pts to Bowling Green Saturday. But they won, because they scored 34.

So the offense was a much bigger problem than the defense IMO.
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That's very true, but whether it was the defense's fault or the offensive's fault, kind of misses the point I'm trying to make, and that is upsets happen, even monumental ones like this one.

People quote Holtz a lot on this board and one of his saying that I've always thought was spot on is that most games are decided by about a half dozen plays. We made those plays against A&M, an obviously much better team than NIU. But NIU obviously made more big plays than we did.

I'm also one of those who was not that excited by the Freeman hire because I've seen what happens when ND hires first-time coaches, but I'm not ready to say that this loss provides the necessary proof that he's in over his head even if I think the odds of him being successful are not great.
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Where's Golson5?

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banmate6 said:
Guys, let's be fair. MF, Denbrock, and Leonard did manage to beat TAMU, with the correct game plan.

Yes, lost to NI, but you see 2 extremes. Not a good thing, for all the reasons we're discussing...but it doesn't mean Leonard absolutely must be benched.

This to me really is more indicting of MF and Dembrock...who should know thoroughly what Leonard can do and how to optimize the game plan. Maybe they can get it right the with Leonard the rest of the way?
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Leonard had VERY little to do with our win vs A&M. It was like 2012 early games with frosh Golson where you called some runs, a few easy read passes, a shot here or there when set up, and relied on run game, and defense.

Except Riley is in his 3rd year starting. The fact he didn't have the mental or physical or whatever ability to throw some sort of real pass on the 2nd and 1 play is beyond me. BENCH HIM
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It's been said and I'll say it again the 2nd and 1 play call was absolutely HORRIBLE

B
sjb75 said:
The play call by Mike Denbrock was perfect.

The result sucked.
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Soccer has so called X statistics. Basically the probability of an assist or goal happening...derived through exhaustive data an AI. You know if an attempted play is a smart or dumb play, with some contextual adjustment.

I'm not sure if football has this. But man, that play call seems glaringly dumb. Late, 1 point lead, needing to burn clock, a poorly performing QB? Really? I bet some stats would argue against this.

As I keep saying, I am no Xs and Os expert. But even I see what a terrible call that was. Necessitating near perfect execution, which seemed improbable and risky.

Finally, you can always generally claim execution on any play. In any sport. Hence being judicious.

Banal stuff.

;)
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It's been said and I'll say it again the 2nd and 1 play call was absolutely HORRIBLE

S
Quest4Twelve said:
I'll never give into that's the best time to take a shot. B effing S! You haven't established a downfield passing game all year and you obviously can't stop NIU's running attack consistently. Get the 1st down and continue to bleed the clock for a tuddy or a field goal.

I swear no matter who calls plays for ND gets struck by the BK sickness.
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Stick to your day job.

The play call by OC Mike Denbrock was perfect.

The result sucked.
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It's been said and I'll say it again the 2nd and 1 play call was absolutely HORRIBLE

H
Quest4Twelve said:
I'll never give into that's the best time to take a shot. B effing S! You haven't established a downfield passing game all year and you obviously can't stop NIU's running attack consistently. Get the 1st down and continue to bleed the clock for a tuddy or a field goal.

I swear no matter who calls plays for ND gets struck by the BK sickness.
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Ditto.
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Where's Golson5?

S
banmate6 said:
Guys, let's be fair. MF, Denbrock, and Leonard did manage to beat TAMU, with the correct game plan.

Yes, lost to NI, but you see 2 extremes. Not a good thing, for all the reasons we're discussing...but it doesn't mean Leonard absolutely must be benched.

This to me really is more indicting of MF and Dembrock...who should know thoroughly what Leonard can do and how to optimize the game plan. Maybe they can get it right the with Leonard the rest of the way?
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It's a vocal minority that want Riley Leonard benched.
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Football WSBT Wrap: Lessons need to be learned from Northern Illinois loss

Tyler James
I joined WSBT sports director Pete Byrne to share takeaways from Notre Dame football head coach Marcus Freeman's Monday press conference, looking back on ND's loss to Northern Illinois, the play of quarterback Riley Leonard, the performance of ND's offensive line, the inconsistent offensive production, how the defense has been impacted and looking ahead at Saturday's game at Purdue (3:30 p.m. EDT on CBS).

Inside ND Sports is partnering with WSBT to provide even more coverage of the Notre Dame football season. James and Byrne will record a video every Monday following a Freeman press conference.

Login to view embedded media
Click here to subscribe to Inside ND Sports on YouTube.
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Where's Golson5?

B
Guys, let's be fair. MF, Denbrock, and Leonard did manage to beat TAMU, with the correct game plan.

Yes, lost to NI, but you see 2 extremes. Not a good thing, for all the reasons we're discussing...but it doesn't mean Leonard absolutely must be benched.

This to me really is more indicting of MF and Dembrock...who should know thoroughly what Leonard can do and how to optimize the game plan. Maybe they can get it right the with Leonard the rest of the way?
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Leonard , Greathouse and Freeman are done.

S
mbd11 said:
It wasn't the D's best game, but at the end of the day, we gave up 16 pts. You should be able to win when you give up 16 pts. Last year, we beat CMU, 41-17. And nobody cared that we gave up 17, because we scored 41. Penn State allowed 27 pts to Bowling Green Saturday. But they won, because they scored 34.

So the offense was a much bigger problem than the defense IMO.
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100.
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Leonard , Greathouse and Freeman are done.

M
HDK said:
Don't waste your time. Get Nasty thinks coaches who were considered among the top defensive coaches last year -- and even as recently as last week -- forgot all they know and are now bums.

And that's not to say this wasn't one of the biggest upsets, if not the biggest, of an ND team ever.
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It wasn't the D's best game, but at the end of the day, we gave up 16 pts. You should be able to win when you give up 16 pts. Last year, we beat CMU, 41-17. And nobody cared that we gave up 17, because we scored 41. Penn State allowed 27 pts to Bowling Green Saturday. But they won, because they scored 34.

So the offense was a much bigger problem than the defense IMO.
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The question that needs an answer

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savvyandsassier said:
Well if I was Croatia's coach I would be hesitant to move on from that team as well. They had Modric, and a great core of players that achieved some pretty big success. I can't fault him for that. I don't know what MF's going to do. It's not thet bad necessarily. Maybe we'll go 10-2 and squeak into the playoff. But in the immediate moment the prospects are suddenly not so bright anymore.

I've never sympathized with his purported run first philosophy, that's just me. And he's got Denbrock now, who's comfortable with a more aggressive passing attack. But I don't figure there'll be any philosophical changes this season, whatever happens.
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Each sports has its nuances. Each team has its specific situation.

Soccer puts a premium on stamina. I love Modric, but he can't run. Period. The coach is making a huge mistake...something his club Real Madrid doesn't do, having him come off the bench. Coach Dalic is misreading capability, not selecting the optimal lineup, and producing less than optimal game plan.

Freeman is making coaching mistakes. Run 1st however doesn't bother me. Wish we saw more Saturday. ND for many reasons is natural with that. Denbrock for some reason didn't got with it consistently in the loss...never mind that irresponsible killer INT up 1 point while driving.

BTW: if you are interested, Croatia has a GREAT pipeline of young players. Gvardiol is one of the better backs in the world at 22. For whatever reason, Croatia produces the best talent per capita.
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Leonard , Greathouse and Freeman are done.

S
Get Nasty said:
Freeman has never been a good defensive coach. Golden has shown to be one, but freeman said a terrible preparation tone last week. It's why all 3 phases of the team were awful. I'm not blaming the Coordinators yet, since all three were awful. That's clearly a reflection on the HC. Freemen also said (true or not) they worked on being physical in practice, not enough on correcting mistakes, and scheming/preparing for their opponent as much. He said they need to improve the mental side (shocker). He also stated they saw the same mistakes in the game they saw in practice. I'm all for a physical practice, but they should be with the opponent at the forefront so you're being physical preparing for an opponent.
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Email Pete Bevacqua.
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Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

G
NDinNJ said:
and last years bowl game.

Angeli: 15-19 232 yards 78.9% average yards per pass: 12.2. 3 TD's 0 INT Longest pass play 55 yards 2 sacks 233.6 rating 96.1 QBR.

How they are not giving Angeli a chance boggles my mind.
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This is no longer amateur athletics, these are paid professionals now. The best player will not always play, the player that has the biggest contract will get the PT and the ship will sink with them. Riley is NDs highest paid player by far, that's why he's playing.
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