chaseball said:

From what I've heard over the years the fans way overstate the impact that academics has on the football product and that Notre Dame has already made a lot of pro-football changes to their admissions especially during the Brian Kelly era that has them competitive with most other prominent football programs

It pains me to say it but I honestly believe Notre Dame is simply getting beat right now by better football programs for reasons that are strictly football related.

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Alright, then. I guess there's not much they can do. They're out of wiggle room. I don't want them to sacrifice their academic 'ideals', but that's only because I prefer and am very used to ND having nice choir boys on the roster. Not because it's morally better. Even if ND totally let the football team cheat, and fixed their grades for them, half the roster at LSU simply would not fit at ND and wouldn't want to even be there. So it's cultural more than just always doing your homework.

Two camps here. The Riley sucks bad execution crowd and the Freeman sucks poor play calling crowd. I'm in the latter. And we have a larger sample size of Freeman snatching defeat from the jas of victory than we do of Riley sucking. 6 minutes left.You have stunk up the show to this point. Yet you are ahead by 1 somehow. You have the ball and it's second and 1. RUN THE BALL. RUN THE CLOCK. Kick a FG like you did vs TAM with a minute left and then make Uncle Rico drive the length of the field to beat you with a TD throwing the ball.

savvyandsassier said:

I don't know about that. I think they're going to have to compromise their ideals. Which have no meaning anyway, it's just something that makes ND feel good about itself. It's difficult to think of anything that isn't morally hideous about ND's academic ideals. Quite frankly. So if they're committed to their fussy, self-aggrandizing academic elitism, then de-emphasize football. Or keep settling for whatever they have now. As if LSU or any other seat of higher learning are scumbags somehow for letting in these otherwise non-students in to play football. ND's so-called 'ideals' bring into question the very moral existence of higher education as a social institution. So it's fitting that it should cost them football glory, if they are going to be so unbending in their fealty to them.

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From what I've heard over the years the fans way overstate the impact that academics has on the football product and that Notre Dame has already made a lot of pro-football changes to their admissions especially during the Brian Kelly era that has them competitive with most other prominent football programs

It pains me to say it but I honestly believe Notre Dame is simply getting beat right now by better football programs for reasons that are strictly football related.

savvyandsassier said:

We don't need to have anything, it's whatever we decide on.

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I agree. That was my way of saying “don’t panic” because he had one bad game in which he was still an asset.

People crap the bed (not you) from week to week based on results. It’s comical as well as irritating. Freeman is the greatest thing after A&M then he’s not the guy after NIU and he sucks. Which is it? One game shouldn’t have swayed people so much. If one believed he was the man after a close A&M win, then that person should have believed he was the man after a close loss to A&M. Same with losing to NIU.

Leonard could have had the A&M game, and thrown for 400 yards against NIU, but if he played against Purdue like he did against NIU, people would be all over him saying he’s not the guy. It’s one game.

My humble opinion is people need to chill the hell out (not directed at you). Fans are too nuts and high and low. It’s funny how I can get mocked for pointing out flaws with Freeman. Next thing he loses a game, and everyone is mocking the whole program and I’m the one saying to just chill.

NDinNJ said:

ND collective paid him more.

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F..ck the collectives. NIL sucks.

banmate6 said:

I still say becoming elite and being a great academic university not compromising its quality and ideals is possible for ND.

As always, I could be wrong, but I think having an easy path to an easy degree program would be a tipping point. Allowing ND to get top players in depth.

I say it year after year: ND actually would be doing a great social good, properly stewarding naive, poor, young athletes into a living after football. Like it or not, for whatever standards ND has, it plays in an NCAA that is very dirty...absolutely perpetuating it, not to mention making good money off it in the process.

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I don't know about that. I think they're going to have to compromise their ideals. Which have no meaning anyway, it's just something that makes ND feel good about itself. It's difficult to think of anything that isn't morally hideous about ND's academic ideals. Quite frankly. So if they're committed to their fussy, self-aggrandizing academic elitism, then de-emphasize football. Or keep settling for whatever they have now. As if LSU or any other seat of higher learning are scumbags somehow for letting in these otherwise non-students in to play football. ND's so-called 'ideals' bring into question the very moral existence of higher education as a social institution. So it's fitting that it should cost them football glory, if they are going to be so unbending in their fealty to them.

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BGI User 1596 said:

He should have stayed at Duke.

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ND collective paid him more.

echowaker said:

I believe if he plays poorly and they lose another one a change will likely be made. In my mind it has to be Carr. He's the future in my opinion so the more experience he gets the better for his development. I just hope it doesn't get to that point.

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And quite naturally, if not RL, then we'll go with the true frosh. The one QB least likely to transfer, or to bring immediate success. And who has done nothing at all to signal that he is so great, and such an absolute sure thing elite talent, that you should go from first to worst if you make the weighty decision to bench your flashy NIL transfer QB after three games.

I mean what else would you do.....

FightingIrish44 said:

Agree although I’m higher on Leonard than most. Then if Angeli plays poorly, it’s on to the next guy in the fans’ mind.

Need to have some consistency and it needs to be more clear that someone else is better for the job.

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We don't need to have anything, it's whatever we decide on. Or in this case, the coaches decide. If they decide to stay with RL, in spite of continued mediocrity, and nothing constructive really comes it and younger QBs transfer yet again as with Buchner, then they effed up. Especially if it's because pulling RL, who presumably was brought in expressly to make the playoff, and not in this case because our returning QBs were unacceptably shitty or inexperienced, which wasn't the case with Jack Coan, but was somewhat the case with Sam Hartman, is what we ought to do. So it probably is fair to say that brining in transfer one year QBs over and over again definitely comes at a cost. And it doesn't matter how much we paid, or if it makes the coaches look bad, if RL is not good enough. And if you can make a strong argument the team might be better with Angeli solely on the merits, then you should definitely bench RL. So as to avoid holding the rest of your QBs back, both by encouraging transfers, and limiting your own potential by not seeing what they could do. RL is just not good enough thus far to offset all that. Especially if the playoff is out, which it isnt' yet. The irony being of course that we could cost ourselves what little chance left we have at a playoff berth by staying with RL, and that he is problem....

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What passing game?

FightingIrish44 said:

Agree although I’m higher on Leonard than most. Then if Angeli plays poorly, it’s on to the next guy in the fans’ mind.

Need to have some consistency and it needs to be more clear that someone else is better for the job.

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I believe if he plays poorly and they lose another one a change will likely be made. In my mind it has to be Carr. He's the future in my opinion so the more experience he gets the better for his development. I just hope it doesn't get to that point.

echowaker said:

I was on record here as saying when Leonard signed that the move did not move the needle for me. He has never been a solid downfield passer. Frankly he's not a passer at all but a thrower. An excellent athlete playing QB. He is what he is. Can they win with him ? Sure but he has to play better and smarter. Will he ? We'll see. I don't believe he should be benched after one really poor performance. It can't work that way for any player. Hard to play free looking over your shoulder. He knows he stunk it up and he also knows the leash won't be much longer.

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Agree although I’m higher on Leonard than most. Then if Angeli plays poorly, it’s on to the next guy in the fans’ mind.

Need to have some consistency and it needs to be more clear that someone else is better for the job.

No bet. No bet or Purdue. I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking ND -11. What is the point total for just Purdue?

I say he gets one more chance. I don't give a shit if it's hard to play or not without the full, unconditional support of all the coaches hanging on your every snap, especially if you're getting paid a million bucks. The season's basically already over on account of him, the playoffs at least, and ND needs to be moving on to bigger and better things if the mediocrity continues.

mbd11 said:

I actually think Leonard might've been a good fit for the Tom Osborne Nebraska offense, in the Scott Frost role. Not that I'm advocating we change to that style of offense or anything.

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He should have stayed at Duke.

I was on record here as saying when Leonard signed that the move did not move the needle for me. He has never been a solid downfield passer. Frankly he's not a passer at all but a thrower. An excellent athlete playing QB. He is what he is. Can they win with him ? Sure but he has to play better and smarter. Will he ? We'll see. I don't believe he should be benched after one really poor performance. It can't work that way for any player. Hard to play free looking over your shoulder. He knows he stunk it up and he also knows the leash won't be much longer.

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Get Nasty said:

He doesn’t know the game well enough to ever be great

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Delusional.

While you're at it, Gerry Faust is also available.