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Respect for Marcus Freeman

I wonder how MF compares to like, Alexander the Great? You think if he could have switched places, or been alive back then he could have conquered half the known world, and spread the gift of western civilization by means of enlightened military conquest with similar or even greater vanquishment? I think so. Considering of course his undeniable powers and gifts for leadership of men. Men who will be trained in the martial disciplines, and impose their lethal will on all who oppose them. But they need training and leadership, otherwise they're just a bunch of raw recruits. Uninspired, and likely to fall well short of their proper destiny and true potential. Football of course being sort of a vicarious peacetime stand in or proxy for such violent military domination. Unlike other sports, which are more removed from such primal aggression, and tap into other talents, shall we say, innate to the human animal.

I mean we already knew MF was charismatic, and he pretty much is a total Boy Scout, the genuine article, and thus is a natural for ND in that regard. And I don't think there's any doubt, unless his strategic, tactical and preparatory prowess was so lacking so as to fail to inspire and produce sufficient confidence and skill, that players are going to be stoked play for him, and energized, more so than BK or most coaches. Moreover that any young coach, in his thirties, who almost in a pinch looks as if he could still get out there and play himself, is likely to get his players more naturally fired up. That is not a revelation. It's just that in our ploddingly hierarchical, bureaucratic society, a 'slave' society as Nietschze might consider it, you don't tend to get a lot of young coaches, on account of the long, patient slog often required to work your way up the ladder, and they're already fairly old and have lost the bloom of youth by the time they finally arrive. Additionally that they're younger and stupider and football can be a daunting sport to master the knowledge and nuances of. But it's not that hard, Lane Kiffin has proven that much.

Anyway, since BK bashing has become a cultural meme in the CFB world, with ND and it's new young buck of a coach, who did not overthrow or depose his erstwhile boss, now so deeply reviled, indeed anathema to the ND fanbase, with some war-room intrigue after receiving the full support of the rank and file who demanded his ascent.... but who got the job to a certain degree almost by happenstance, able to circumvent the slog with the help of some pretty good fortune, some might call it 'destiny'... and so now you get interviews with ex-BK players who are encouraged to effectively diminish and reconsider their former coach, in a less flattering light, almost against their will in a sense by having invidious questions put to them basically asking them how much more awesome MF is than BK. Really so that CFB media and all its many little outlets and manifestations can cash in on the meme, and get hits to their website or YT channel. And ND fans get to eat that shit up! They'll come for second and third helpings.

And I would've cited the the crusades as a historical point of reference, only I don't know if they were led by any boy wonder generals, and they largely only met with mixed success. But they were catholic!
Interesting point; maybe you should do a deeper dive into the Crusades. You may be on to something with that. I think historians generally consider RIchard the Lionheart to be the most successful of the Christian commanders, and he was only 30 something when he led the Third Crusade, so perhaps there is a point of connection there with Marcus Freeman. Edward I, also known as Longshanks--who gained more recent notoriety in the film Braveheart--was also a Crusader commander. Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub, known historically as Saladin, had an equally impressive record of conquest on the Muslim side.
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Best LB group in ND history

Such hypotheticals are fun. But I agree you really cannot compare eras. The only thing I will say with some conviction...in the modern era you minimally have to be a top athlete. Back in the day, you could compensate for some lack of speed, agility, and strength with sports IQ and team schema.

Some argue what if players back then had modern sport science. Yes, the top athletes would realize gains. But not the marginal athletes.

One more point: not every top player today would hang in the conditions of yesteryear. Some top players today are more athletic due to sports science they wouldn't have back then. I also think the game meted out more punishment back then, where some today wouldn't hang.

If you magically transported a peak 1970 vs peak 2024 team, the latter would easily win. But if you transport each to the era of the other with 1 year to practice and play as the other...the verdict is out.
Totally agree. I immediately thought of Bowen when reading first paragraph. Some here have criticized his so-called lack of speed, but his football IQ and instincts get him to the ball carrier exceptionally quick, and crushing hits have him playing at an exceptionally high level. In my mind, he is the perfect blend of the characteristics of the two eras as you described them.

RJ Oben

I wonder if Oben will end up playing in the NFL, and he was always good, but just didn't really get into the flow, and didn't adjust to the new schemes and milieu and such. But since it's the playoff, and the team needs him, he's caught up in the moment, and it's finally coming out of him.

Willingham

It wasn't just the Gerry Faust comparison; as I remember it was also pointed out that Bob Davie also proved to be a poor head coach and yet he was allowed to fill out the full term of his contract.

The real problem with the Willingham hire was that Kevin White did an absolutely terrible job of evaluating whether Willingham was a good fit at ND. The linked story says that Dave Duerson, a former ND and NFL great, was on the ND BOT at the time and advocated for the hiring of Willingham, so maybe White felt he was backed into a corner. Whatever the reason for his hire, I don't think Willingham ever bought into the ND culture, and I remember reports at the time were that Willingham's wife absolutely loathed living in South Bend. You know the saying: happy wife happy life. Well, the opposite is also true. And then Willingham turned out to be a poor recruiter and a mediocre game day coach. Not a recipe for success. Willingham's subsequent failures at UW confirmed that ND made the right decision in letting Willingham go.

I think it was the media, not Willingham, who stoked the racial bias narrative, though Willingham probably didn't do much to dispel that narrative.

Kevin White left behind a pretty forgettable legacy during his time as ND's AD: the Bob Davie and Ty WIllingham hires, the George O'Leary debacle, and the premature 10-year extension on Charlie Weis's contract. Ouch.
Not sure others felt this way or are willing to say so, but at the time I was very bullish on Willingham’s hire. He had just coached Stanford to a surprising 9-3 record, and the assumption was that he would be more successful with the quality of athlete ND attracted compared to Stanford. It quickly became apparent that he thought the ND brand would recruit by itself, and he gave little attention or effort to recruiting, and he failed miserably. I can’t recall another ND coach who felt so entitled and gave less effort to recruiting or to the alum network or to the university in general than Willingham. I don’t recall him crying about race when he was fired, but the media was quick to criticize ND and make the racist accusations. Surprised and disappointed with his take decades later.
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Kelly getting taken to the woodshed

I like you, savvy. We’ve had our differences & always will in some cases, but you’re a passionate dude & I laugh my ass off at some of your posts, sometimes cuz I think you’re crazy, but most of the time cuz I think you’re a crack up (in a good way).
Oh well thank you. I certainly take the opportunity to talk shit, so to speak, on the internet. And say my peace. I like to think that's what it's good for. Even though it sort of started out, at least with I guess like Facebook and twitter and such, as a place for teenage girls to gossip, and be cruel to other kids. And that was going to be their main audience. Little did they know the whole world would start carrying on like a bunch of mean girls. Humble message boards such as this predated those 'platforms', and admittedly have had their own trajectory.

Respect for Marcus Freeman

I wonder how MF compares to like, Alexander the Great? You think if he could have switched places, or been alive back then he could have conquered half the known world, and spread the gift of western civilization by means of enlightened military conquest with similar or even greater vanquishment? I think so. Considering of course his undeniable powers and gifts for leadership of men. Men who will be trained in the martial disciplines, and impose their lethal will on all who oppose them. But they need training and leadership, otherwise they're just a bunch of raw recruits. Uninspired, and likely to fall well short of their proper destiny and true potential. Football of course being sort of a vicarious peacetime stand in or proxy for such violent military domination. Unlike other sports, which are more removed from such primal aggression, and tap into other talents, shall we say, innate to the human animal.

I mean we already knew MF was charismatic, and he pretty much is a total Boy Scout, the genuine article, and thus is a natural for ND in that regard. And I don't think there's any doubt, unless his strategic, tactical and preparatory prowess was so lacking so as to fail to inspire and produce sufficient confidence and skill, that players are going to be stoked play for him, and energized, more so than BK or most coaches. Moreover that any young coach, in his thirties, who almost in a pinch looks as if he could still get out there and play himself, is likely to get his players more naturally fired up. That is not a revelation. It's just that in our ploddingly hierarchical, bureaucratic society, a 'slave' society as Nietschze might consider it, you don't tend to get a lot of young coaches, on account of the long, patient slog often required to work your way up the ladder, and they're already fairly old and have lost the bloom of youth by the time they finally arrive. Additionally that they're younger and stupider and football can be a daunting sport to master the knowledge and nuances of. But it's not that hard, Lane Kiffin has proven that much.

Anyway, since BK bashing has become a cultural meme in the CFB world, with ND and it's new young buck of a coach, who did not overthrow or depose his erstwhile boss, now so deeply reviled, indeed anathema to the ND fanbase, with some war-room intrigue after receiving the full support of the rank and file who demanded his ascent.... but who got the job to a certain degree almost by happenstance, able to circumvent the slog with the help of some pretty good fortune, some might call it 'destiny'... and so now you get interviews with ex-BK players who are encouraged to effectively diminish and reconsider their former coach, in a less flattering light, almost against their will in a sense by having invidious questions put to them basically asking them how much more awesome MF is than BK. Really so that CFB media and all its many little outlets and manifestations can cash in on the meme, and get hits to their website or YT channel. And ND fans get to eat that shit up! They'll come for second and third helpings.

And I would've cited the the crusades as a historical point of reference, only I don't know if they were led by any boy wonder generals, and they largely only met with mixed success. But they were catholic!
Maybe you can run this by Manti and see what he thinks.

Willingham

We get this BS from Willingham, and by contrast, great perspective on race from Freeman. Paraphrasing…but Freeman basically said he is proud to represent the black community…proud to follow guys like Dungy…pointed out that their accomplishments much more than the color of their skin…and gave a shout out to his mom and the Korean community he also represents.
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Willingham

And of course none of the national media ever admitted that.
Their excuse was that we gave Faust a five year contract and did not fire him. Which everyone pretty much agreed was a mistake and he should have been let go early. But because Willingham was black being fired early was of course racism.
It wasn't just the Gerry Faust comparison; as I remember it was also pointed out that Bob Davie also proved to be a poor head coach and yet he was allowed to fill out the full term of his contract.

The real problem with the Willingham hire was that Kevin White did an absolutely terrible job of evaluating whether Willingham was a good fit at ND. The linked story says that Dave Duerson, a former ND and NFL great, was on the ND BOT at the time and advocated for the hiring of Willingham, so maybe White felt he was backed into a corner. Whatever the reason for his hire, I don't think Willingham ever bought into the ND culture, and I remember reports at the time were that Willingham's wife absolutely loathed living in South Bend. You know the saying: happy wife happy life. Well, the opposite is also true. And then Willingham turned out to be a poor recruiter and a mediocre game day coach. Not a recipe for success. Willingham's subsequent failures at UW confirmed that ND made the right decision in letting Willingham go.

I think it was the media, not Willingham, who stoked the racial bias narrative, though Willingham probably didn't do much to dispel that narrative.

Kevin White left behind a pretty forgettable legacy during his time as ND's AD: the Bob Davie and Ty WIllingham hires, the George O'Leary debacle, and the premature 10-year extension on Charlie Weis's contract. Ouch.

RJ Oben

Graded at 91.2 in the 2nd round of CFP.

He was the highest graded Edge vs anyone else who played in the tourney.

Good for him. Would love to see him play that well again vs PSU. Does anyone have insight to the strengths of PSU OL? How does it match up vs our DL.

Also....Moore was the highest graded DB. Adon was the highest graded Safety

Awesome to see guys step up at the right time.
IrishMike, I was totally in awe of Oben’s play against Georgia. I kept asking where the hell this Oben has been all season. This was the guy we thought we were getting when we recruited him out of the portal, and even better. Our coaches have said week after week that they still believed in him, and that it just takes some longer than others to make the adjustment to a new school, new coaches, new system, etc…. I viewed this as Coach speak and the reality that we had little choice. Was this an aberration or was the Georgia Tackle that bad or is this the Oben we can expect to see against Penn St?

Respect for Marcus Freeman

I wonder how MF compares to like, Alexander the Great? You think if he could have switched places, or been alive back then he could have conquered half the known world, and spread the gift of western civilization by means of enlightened military conquest with similar or even greater vanquishment? I think so. Considering of course his undeniable powers and gifts for leadership of men. Men who will be trained in the martial disciplines, and impose their lethal will on all who oppose them. But they need training and leadership, otherwise they're just a bunch of raw recruits. Uninspired, and likely to fall well short of their proper destiny and true potential. Football of course being sort of a vicarious peacetime stand in or proxy for such violent military domination. Unlike other sports, which are more removed from such primal aggression, and tap into other talents, shall we say, innate to the human animal.

I mean we already knew MF was charismatic, and he pretty much is a total Boy Scout, the genuine article, and thus is a natural for ND in that regard. And I don't think there's any doubt, unless his strategic, tactical and preparatory prowess was so lacking so as to fail to inspire and produce sufficient confidence and skill, that players are going to be stoked play for him, and energized, more so than BK or most coaches. Moreover that any young coach, in his thirties, who almost in a pinch looks as if he could still get out there and play himself, is likely to get his players more naturally fired up. That is not a revelation. It's just that in our ploddingly hierarchical, bureaucratic society, a 'slave' society as Nietschze might consider it, you don't tend to get a lot of young coaches, on account of the long, patient slog often required to work your way up the ladder, and they're already fairly old and have lost the bloom of youth by the time they finally arrive. Additionally that they're younger and stupider and football can be a daunting sport to master the knowledge and nuances of. But it's not that hard, Lane Kiffin has proven that much.

Anyway, since BK bashing has become a cultural meme in the CFB world, with ND and it's new young buck of a coach, who did not overthrow or depose his erstwhile boss, now so deeply reviled, indeed anathema to the ND fanbase, with some war-room intrigue after receiving the full support of the rank and file who demanded his ascent.... but who got the job to a certain degree almost by happenstance, able to circumvent the slog with the help of some pretty good fortune, some might call it 'destiny'... and so now you get interviews with ex-BK players who are encouraged to effectively diminish and reconsider their former coach, in a less flattering light, almost against their will in a sense by having invidious questions put to them basically asking them how much more awesome MF is than BK. Really so that CFB media and all its many little outlets and manifestations can cash in on the meme, and get hits to their website or YT channel. And ND fans get to eat that shit up! They'll come for second and third helpings.

And I would've cited the the crusades as a historical point of reference, only I don't know if they were led by any boy wonder generals, and they largely only met with mixed success. But they were catholic!

Does This Short Week Hurt the Irish?

No, it doesn’t, it’s not even close.

The sugar bowl game didn’t end until close to midnight

Then you have to dive deeper and consider that Notre Dame had to travel from NOLA back to South Bend after the sugar bowl, and then they have to travel down to Miami for Thursday’s game.

The loss of a day is very impactful

An additional day also allows for recovery from injuries and general fatigue
Midnight in London England? The game started at 4:00 PM Eastern....3:00 PM New Orleans....game was done 8 PM and I am sure the team was home in South Bend by Midnight..,,which is earlier than most of their road games this year. The team assuming still in SB has slept 5 nights in their own beds....(or wherever they have put them up) and the travel is all within time zone / 1 hour max as well as flights all less than 3 hours.
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Does This Short Week Hurt the Irish?

Never even mentioned that Penn State fought like hell to beat Oregon in the Big 10 title game, played an extra game; meanwhile, Notre Dame took that week off. Rested. This stuff cuts both ways.
No, it doesn’t, it’s not even close.

The sugar bowl game didn’t end until close to midnight

Then you have to dive deeper and consider that Notre Dame had to travel from NOLA back to South Bend after the sugar bowl, and then they have to travel down to Miami for Thursday’s game.

The loss of a day is very impactful

An additional day also allows for recovery from injuries and general fatigue

Willingham

Willingham was a rush hire by Kevin White--who I always thought was in over his head as AD--after the George O'Leary fiasco. Willingham flopped badly, and ND took a lot of flack from the national media for terminating him before his contract was up. Then he went to UW and compiled an 11-37 record, with a 6-29 conference record. He just wasn't a good head football coach, plain and simple.
And of course none of the national media ever admitted that.
Their excuse was that we gave Faust a five year contract and did not fire him. Which everyone pretty much agreed was a mistake and he should have been let go early. But because Willingham was black being fired early was of course racism.

Willingham

I love it when racial/gender barriers and ceilings are broken down, when we see that skin pigment is so unimportant in the big picture, where we can celebrate our commonality as human beings. I also think it is fair for those that have endured hardships to share with the rest of us so that we can understand that perspective and try to improve. That said Ty Willingham is part of the problem. He was given an opportunity and he failed for merit reasons that were particular to him. Disgraceful comments.
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