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Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

F
savvyandsassier said:
Are you serious? How many times have we seen professional franchises stay with a coveted player they acquired, either as an expensive signing or a former top draft pick they are loath to give up on, to the detriment of their team, oftentimes being the reason a coach gets fired, because they couldn't let go of some important player they brought onto the roster almost as if it were a reflection on them personally.

So no, I definitely don't think coaches/team are above not doing the right thing, or the smart thing, and making a clean break and getting rid of an underperforming player no matter how much it cost to get him on the roster.
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A professional organization is different from a college team. In college, the coaches are the roster managers. That’s not the case in professional sports.

So the NFL head coach is subject to influence from the front office by default even though the coach is working in concert with them. The front office is part of the “program”.

If the NFL team drafts a QB in the first round, that could be a 20 year decision. So perhaps more slack is given to truly see what the organization has at the QB decision. It’s a different investment from that which occurs in college.

In the case of Leonard, you already paid. He’s here. He’s already gone after this season other than a medical redshirt. Now Freeman and the staff are just deciding how best to win the game today. It’s not apples to apples.
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Develop a QB

chaseball
88ND said:
What...
In...
Theeeeeeeeee...
Hail....
Are...
You...
Talking about?

I assure you....
Those players were going to play on Sunday with zero influence by the previous coach!!
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NDs talent rank during the ladder half of the BK era (2017-2021) was somewhere around ~12th and he coached them up to 4-straight-seasons of 10th (or better) in F+.

Getting production that matches your talent is an accomplishment in and of itself, but Brian Kelly was coaching those 12th ranked rosters (in team talent composite) to 10th (or better) in production. That's REALLY GOOD player development.

Not to mention ND presently has the 4th most players on NFL rosters right now (largely from the BK era) and many of those players are 3 & 4 star guys. Although most of those players are 2-deep guys more than NFL stars, it's still a really big testament to how well the scouting and player development went under his tutelage/watch.

BKs ultimate problem at ND is the same one ND faces today: lack of tier 1 prospects to get them over the hump.
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Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

savvyandsassier
FightingIrish44 said:
Good point. I think just a little bit of logic makes it easy to assume that NIL has basically nothing to do with it.

I can’t imagine any NFL or college coach, at any level, letting someone outside the program dictate who they will or will not play. Their money is at stake if they play the wrong guy so why would they care about NIL?

Freeman has made millions of dollars over the last 10 years. He doesn’t need to deal with anyone’s interference in how he should run his program. I would think he would just resign if he was getting serious pressure to keep playing Leonard, and if he’s not getting serious pressure, he doesn’t care who is getting what money.
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Are you serious? How many times have we seen professional franchises stay with a coveted player they acquired, either as an expensive signing or a former top draft pick they are loath to give up on, to the detriment of their team, oftentimes being the reason a coach gets fired, because they couldn't let go of some important player they brought onto the roster almost as if it were a reflection on them personally.

So no, I definitely don't think coaches/team are above not doing the right thing, or the smart thing, and making a clean break and getting rid of an underperforming player no matter how much it cost to get him on the roster.
Click to expand...
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“Star” transfer QB are synonymous to star MLB free agents who join the Yankees

H
4-4-3 said:
I think you’re overstating it as per the Yankees.

So, just for the record as to guys who were big-time stars in MLB, Cuba or Japan who DIDN’T POOP THE BED after coming to the Yankees via free agency:

Catfish Hunter*

Reggie Jackson*

Goose Gossage*

Dave Winfield#

Tommy John#

Wade Boggs*

Jimmy Key*

David Wells*

Orlando “El Duque” Hernandez (Cuba)*

Mike Mussina#

Hideki Matsui (Japan)*

C.C. Sabathia*

Mark Texeira*

Masahiro Tanaka (Japan)

Gerritt Cole

Juan Soto

NOT A BAD HAUL. ANY QUESTION, CHECK OUT THEIR STATS IN PINSTRIPES.

And though he wasn’t a SUPERSTAR per se, let’s also thrown in Johnny Damon, whose 4 year Yankees stats were impressive as a SUPPORTING CAST MEMBER on some super Yankee teams.

An * indicates a member of a WS winner. A # indicates a member of a pennant winner.
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Chuck Knoblauk & Scott Brosius instrumental in WS title
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Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

M
FightingIrish44 said:
Good point. I think just a little bit of logic makes it easy to assume that NIL has basically nothing to do with it.

I can’t imagine any NFL or college coach, at any level, letting someone outside the program dictate who they will or will not pay. Their money is at stake if they play the wrong guy so why would they care about NIL?

Freeman has made millions of dollars over the last 10 years. He doesn’t need to deal with anyone’s interference in how he should run his program. I would think he would just resign if he was getting serious pressure to keep playing Leonard, and if he’s not getting serious pressure, he doesn’t care who is getting what money.
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Yeah, and the money somebody spent to bring in Leonard is basically a sunk cost at this point, anyways.
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Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

F
mbd11 said:
But I'm assuming those same donors, like us here on this board, want to win? So if the guy they paid a lot of money for isn't getting the job done, they'd be okay with replacing him?
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Good point. I think just a little bit of logic makes it easy to assume that NIL has basically nothing to do with it.

I can’t imagine any NFL or college coach, at any level, letting someone outside the program dictate who they will or will not play. Their money is at stake if they play the wrong guy so why would they care about NIL?

Freeman has made millions of dollars over the last 10 years. He doesn’t need to deal with anyone’s interference in how he should run his program. I would think he would just resign if he was getting serious pressure to keep playing Leonard, and if he’s not getting serious pressure, he doesn’t care who is getting what money.
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Develop a QB

H
NDinNJ said:
I'm going off of prior to him going to Alabama. If you don't bring Hartman in, have a real QB competition, he may not transfer, maybe Angeli beats him out, maybe not. Remember, Angeli played in a couple of games, albeit garbage time, but he ran the offense well, and he played in the bowl game as well, and produced.

Again hindsight is 20/20. Easy to say now, but at the time it's different. I just prefer they groom who they recruited unless they bring in an elite QB, like a Jayden Daniel's type. Bringing in average QB's is clearly not the answer.
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That’s fair. I do agree with you in terms of developing the QB room over being transfer happy.

In terms of Buchner/Hartman, I do think the right move was made in that scenario, especially seeing how things ended up with Buchner.

Overall I’m not sold on Angeli. The one game he started and played was against a beaten down Oregon State team with no head coach and playing against a bunch of backups.

That said, Leonard hasn’t proven he can beat any defense well through the air, but, it’s early and we have a small sample size.
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Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

M
4-4-3 said:
Re the NIL piece, Pete Sampson offered on his POST-DEBACLE PODCAST -- words to the effect -- that there would be no thought of not starting Riley against Purdue as he'd cost a lot of money to bring in, and what message would it send to donors, whom they wish to tap again in the future, if Riley got benched.

NIL may indeed be corrupting the process of deciding who should start at quarterback. This will be ROUNDLY DENIED, I imagine, the first time the question is posed to Freeman, but then Sampson is a savvy guy, and I don't think he'd make this comment if he hadn't heard the topic discussed by someone who would know or might even be concerned about it
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But I'm assuming those same donors, like us here on this board, want to win? So if the guy they paid a lot of money for isn't getting the job done, they'd be okay with replacing him?
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