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Football ***GAME THREAD: No. 18 Notre Dame 66, Purdue 7 (Final)***

We're coming to you live from Ross-Ade Stadium in West Lafayette, Ind., for today's Notre Dame-Purdue game.

We will use this game thread as the primary home for game commentary from now until after the game. We have some rules we'll ask you to follow, which will be included below.

If you're not following the rules and do not respond well to reminders, we'll remove you're posting privileges for the rest of the day. We have too much to do today to argue about it during the game. This doesn't happen often as we're pretty lenient in the game thread, but please keep that in mind.

@HotCarNut has disciplinary powers as a moderator. You can argue with him about the game, but do not argue with him about the rules.

Our game thread rules:

1. Use this thread until the end of the game for ongoing game commentary. We'd like to keep the conversation in one place. If something from the game merits a separate conversation of substance, go ahead and start another thread for that topic. When in doubt, post in the game thread.

2. Criticism of decision-making by coaches and players is allowed. But please avoid making it personal. Don't be malicious. Remember, that person's mother could be reading your post. If you cross the line, you'll lose posting privileges for the day.

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Why the smile?

How did the NCAA create this problem? You mean by originally prohibiting, and forbidding players from making any money upon pain of expulsion from the sport? That little move they pulled? And pulling out every possible stop to keep the exploitation racket alive as long as legally viable? That's more than creating the problem, that IS the problem. The NCAA is the problem, their existence is the problem. They were about as likely to be proactive on the subject as there is peace in the Middle East.

And they still want to reverse the whole thing by an act of congress, and return to the plantation system, even if the courts for their part have already declared them criminals. So we'll just change the law, and it won't be illegal anymore, and the SCOTUS can't touch us. And for someone supposedly right in the thick of this mess as you keep alluding to you sound particularly spineless and circumspect, and you vaguely fuss and whimper over all the possibly applicable legal niceties at the state level, without which I suppose they wouldn't need someone like you. They probably don't need you in any event. But I'm sure there's money to be made out this upheaval for any number of hangers-on. Money that could be going to the players....
Yes they are the problem. They had ample opportunities to be proactive and chose not to be. What we have now was never the original intent of the movement. What athletes wanted was the same opportunities of any other student on full scholarship. Their pigheadedness and incompetence got us here. Fuss and whimper ? How so ? You don't have the vaguest idea what I do. We offer advice and guidelines to schools and conferences in legally managing their role in NIL. Educate yourself before criticizing my profession.

Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

I think it's a little bit more in your face than that. The shitty offense thus far. The playoff hype was real, justified or not, Angeli was/is a very viable option the whole time, absolutely true. And RL came in with the book on him being injury prone and unproven as a passer, as far as the potential negatives go, which is a narrative that has held true, and cost us a game already.

I don't know what to say about woulda coulda shoulda. That's true about the dropped pass. But the int is not eligible for that treatment, it was too egregious. And as far as a 'just because they lost' sentiment goes, that would be the entire point. We lost to NIU. The defense totally did its job. The offense shit the bed, and RL has been true to form thus far, getting hurt, and just not being good enough a passer.

As far as the coaches' superior nuance, which of course they would be in ample possession of, both as coaches, and coaches for this team in particular.... But unless Angeli sucks in practice, and the coaches know all too well his bowl performance was a fluke, I think anyone could make this call. I'm guessing that's why fans, myself included, are so vociferous. It feels like you can't go wrong. We can't beat Purdue with Steve Angeli? RL's injured to boot, let alone his lackluster play. That alone would be reason enough.
You evaluate the individual’s performance irrespective of whether or not you lost.

The defense didn’t totally do it’s job in my and other people’s opinion. It’s more nuanced than just the 16 points on the board.

I think Riley was a more proven passer at Duke, especially when you consider his worth in the run game.

Perhaps ND wouldn’t beat Purdue with Angeli. Maybe ND would. Same thing with Leonard. No player is guaranteed to have a good or bad game.

I think people are over looking the sub par offensive line.

Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

Re the NIL piece, Pete Sampson offered on his POST-DEBACLE PODCAST -- words to the effect -- that there would be no thought of not starting Riley against Purdue as he'd cost a lot of money to bring in, and what message would it send to donors, whom they wish to tap again in the future, if Riley got benched.

NIL may indeed be corrupting the process of deciding who should start at quarterback. This will be ROUNDLY DENIED, I imagine, the first time the question is posed to Freeman, but then Sampson is a savvy guy, and I don't think he'd make this comment if he hadn't heard the topic discussed by someone who would know or might even be concerned about it
I hadn't even thought of that angle. I was just thinking this was MF's boy, his big prize QB transfer. Even though he already had one in SH with mixed results. I guess on account of TB and Pyne just weren't good enough. And now it's RL's turn with probably even more hype, and more expertctations. So naturally he'd be hesitant to pull him. Because it reflects upon him. Even though if your goal is the playoff, things have already begun to skew sharply in the opposite direction with RL at the helm. So maybe you need to think again.

But you're suggesting it's more strategic that. We have to think about the donors' more capricious sensibilities, perhaps. We can't let them think we don't know what we're doing, and blowing their wad on a QB who's on the bench after two games with the rest of the season nearly a formality already. Yeah, I guess that totally could be the case as well.

Why the smile?

Here's the rub. Where are decisions like those you propose made ? 28 states currently have NIL legislation on the books. The remaining 22 currently have none though some are working on it. The NCAA is worthless ( as usual ) on the subject. They would like nothing more than to have Congress (Good God) resolve the problem that they themselves created. Until there are true, agreed upon guidelines established and a mechanism in place to oversee them you will continue to have the situation you do. I'm in the middle of it professionally and the certainty of uncertainty has kept me very busy. Ultimately revenue sharing looks to be the only true avenue to real regulation in my opinion.
How did the NCAA create this problem? You mean by originally prohibiting, and forbidding players from making any money upon pain of expulsion from the sport? That little move they pulled? And pulling out every possible stop to keep the exploitation racket alive as long as legally viable? That's more than creating the problem, that IS the problem. The NCAA is the problem, their existence is the problem. They were about as likely to be proactive on the subject as there is peace in the Middle East.

And they still want to reverse the whole thing by an act of congress, and return to the plantation system, even if the courts for their part have already declared them criminals. So we'll just change the law, and it won't be illegal anymore, and the SCOTUS can't touch us. And for someone supposedly right in the thick of this mess as you keep alluding to you sound particularly spineless and circumspect, and you vaguely fuss and whimper over all the possibly applicable legal niceties at the state level, without which I suppose they wouldn't need someone like you. They probably don't need you in any event. But I'm sure there's money to be made out this upheaval for any number of hangers-on. Money that could be going to the players....

Riley film review

I disagree that Freeman is in a tough spot.

He's gotta simply make the call that is best for the team. Who gets us to the playoffs? Play that guy.

Who cares about NIL or money, it's a sunk cost at this point anyways.

Figure out who is the best QB, in the moment, and play that guy.

Go on a 10-game win streak, and punch a ticket to the playoffs......then no one cares about throwing away NIL
money or hurting feelings back in September.
He had that chance at half time vs niu and this week before Purdue … he’s a coward coach right now if Riley starts today

Riley film review

I was never sold on Leonard when they brought him in. I thought he was a slight improvement over Hartman. I was wrong, he's worse than Hartman. This makes me question the coaches, specifically MF. Do they not look at the stats and reports on a QB? It seems like they have shiny object syndrome and go for the trendy pick without performing any due diligence
I was hopeful he would be a better 2022 Leonard, and not the one that got worse in 2023… I was wrong

Nd did a lot of things wrong vs niu, but he single hand idly cost nd 10-20 points and set boy up for 3-6

Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

I never bought into Riley Leonard or Sam Hartman last year. My reasons are logical. Look at their recruiting profile. Look at the offers they had coming out of high school. They both ended up at the schools they were at for a reason, because they were average to below average QB's. I'm not referring to their rankings because those can be flawed, but look at what schools offered them scholarships.

Meanwhile most on this forum and other forums have been overlooking Angeli. Look at Angeli's recruiting profile and offer list. Compare the three, and it's easy to see the coaches made major mistakes bringing in a one and done rental QB and anointing them the starter without a REAL QB competition. To me that alone is reason to fire Freeman.

I find it very difficult to believe that Angeli is not a better QB than Hartman or Leonard. Just look at Angeli's numbers in the limited playing time he's had. He's accurate, can move, makes his reads, and has an arm. The critics will say, but he's only played against 2nd team defenses. NIU starters are less talented than most 2nd team P5 defenses. Riley Leonard has been inaccurate, has shown he has a weak arm, and is not as mobile as everyone said he was. A real QB competition would have born this out. That's on MF and the coaching staff.
I am not sure about Angeli. Lasf year I was one of those beating the drum for him. to play. Then I saw him in some mop up scenarios and I thought he looked slow and he didnt have a very quick arem/release. But, maybeI am wrong. But, I do agree I would like to find out. Maybe hewill play some against Purdue??
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