Would you have told Estime to go down at the 1?
- Thread starter graceh90
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Everyone just needs to ask themselves one thing. If Estime goes down and we miss field goal what is the reaction? Is it worse than last week when freeman was bludgeoned for 10 on the field? You bet. I’d say freeman should never coach again if that happened.
"Everyone just needs to ask themselves one thing. If Estime goes down and we miss field goal what is the reaction?"
This board would have been in meltdown mode immediately! lol
Never, and this team needed that emotional shot in the arm that comes with a decisive score up the gut. The Good feel and confidence that comes from that kind of run to take the lead late in a game that looked lost, carries over into practice and following games. As a fan, I was pumped to see some swagger on the sidelines that would Not have been these will a knee and FG.
I love Marcus Freeman, but this is a no brainer. I cannot believe we are having a serious discussion about this. No way you ask Estime to go down on the one yard line. Too much can go wrong with a FG try. Take the sure thing. There were only 31 seconds left in the game. Our D was playing well all night long, and Duke has to go the length of the field to score. And how do you tell Audric to go down? If he has all those situational strategies in his head, doesn't that clutter his mind up with stuff he shouldn't be thinking about? All he needed to think was: Hit the hole hard. Run fast. Open green grass in front of me; run faster. Easy peasy decison on this one.
That would have been outright humiliating. It would be unseemly..... that you're so obsessed with overcoaching, that on the one in a million shot Duke drives the length of the field in 28 seconds or whatever, that you instruct your RB to slide to his knees at the three yard line, because you're such a gutless, unsporting, chickenshit of a coach, that you'd rather kick the FG with time running out. Maybe Estime simply ignored him....
Seriously, that would be a dark day for ND football. Presumably MF is doesn't mean what he's saying, if he's saying he would seriously consider that. And is merely humoring the ESPN bimbo.....
Seriously, that would be a dark day for ND football. Presumably MF is doesn't mean what he's saying, if he's saying he would seriously consider that. And is merely humoring the ESPN bimbo.....
So what would Brian Kelly have done? I know it seems like beating a dead horse to ask.....but...the guy was here for what 14 years? Its time for this team to be aggressive when you aren't in a sink or swim situation. Kelly seemed to put on the floatation device in the wading pool...and take chances when it was not needed. A scab will exist for a very long time from the OSU game...and won't really heal unless ND makes the playoffs or beats them...whichever comes first. If Estime called his own play....than thats a learning experience for the entire team....It was the exception to the rule...and those exceptions do happen. These are football players....I think Freeman identifies with their mindset moreso than Kelly would... Freeman played football at OSU...while Kelly was a "club football player" at Assumption College. He never played D1 football...or came close to doing so. I think that shows up in his coaching. Anyhow....Freeman has to learn from bonehead plays and calls....all coaches experience them. Grow from it. The Estime play is a classic and timely example of that. Trust your players when the game is on the line. Kelly never trusted his players....because the game wasn't about them.
I'm thinking Freeman's background as a defensive coach had something to do with his decision to hand the ball off with 30 seconds left. Assuming Estime only got a couple of yards, we could have run another play and picked up a few more yards before using our timeout. It is also likely that Duke would have been forced to use timeouts.
But to take a knee at the one yard line when you have a chance to go up by a TD against a not very explosive team with that little time remaining is crazy talk.
But to take a knee at the one yard line when you have a chance to go up by a TD against a not very explosive team with that little time remaining is crazy talk.
Or, maybe BK would have had a weak-armed freshman QB fling it up for grabs in the end zone as he did against Tulsa. Fortunately, BK did seem to learn from his recklessness the first 7-8 games of the 2010 season.
I’m against that belief in virtually all scenarios.
As other posters commented, what if the muff the snap the next play, what if the PK shanks it or the holder drops it?
It’s different if you are up 3 with 39 seconds left but not trailing, you put the ball in the damned end zone.
Estime won the game IMO, his instincts said score and he did. He made a great cutback and then broke a few tackles, great play by him.
My quick 2 cents: If true, this is a crazy moment for Freeman!
Even my amateur Xs and Os knows you try aTD lead with some 30 seconds left. AS opposed to risking a loss to wind down clock with a knee on the 1 for a FG that can miss. Are you kidding me?
I remain a Freeman fan. I chalk this up to spontaneous musing. He'll and, well hopefully, the OC do the right thing again.
Even my amateur Xs and Os knows you try aTD lead with some 30 seconds left. AS opposed to risking a loss to wind down clock with a knee on the 1 for a FG that can miss. Are you kidding me?
I remain a Freeman fan. I chalk this up to spontaneous musing. He'll and, well hopefully, the OC do the right thing again.
You get a Havana cigar!!!
In nearly every sport, it's a cardinal rule: give it your best in crunch time to put the dagger in the heart.
Estime. Period.
Wasn't there a game against Stanford where Charlie Weiss told the team to let the Trees score a touchdown quickly when they were first and goal so we could get the ball back with 'enough" time to score a touchdown back. Didn't work out did it.
If this were the NFL with an automatic kicker, yes, but we were playing Duke, not a Mahomes, Allen, Tua, Rodgers, Brady, Manning, etc., led offense that can move the ball and have some chance even if it’s little.
IF you were leading say 21-20 and a minute to go, maybe. Since you do not need to score you want to milk the clock. Actually in that scenario I would tell him to drop at the 10. Then line up and go up the gut three times THEN kick the FG. IF nothing else you make the other team use all its timeouts and if they are gone you can run out the clock.
BUT YOU NEVER take a chance when you are behind. Even FG kickers that seem automatic WILL Miss now and then. Not to mention all the other possible bad things that could happen,
BUT YOU NEVER take a chance when you are behind. Even FG kickers that seem automatic WILL Miss now and then. Not to mention all the other possible bad things that could happen,
I can't even believe this is being discussed! We were losing, you never, never leave it to a kicker. If you can score a TD, you score a TD
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That's backwards. The more time is on the clock the less you worry about the clock but just take the points. It's only when you can kneel out to win the game that you think about declining the points.
If MF is thinking about ideal clock management, he missed a sharp one. Against anOSU Estime gained 11 yards in first down with about 3:30 left. If he flops after a gain of 9 and we can get one yard in two tries then ND's win% goes to about 99.
St Lou mentioned that afterwards on ESPN. His comment; How could you tell?
I don't believe many people thought that he would get a first down let alone the 1 yard line
It's nice to see most people still have a little red blood running through their veins, and don't want to apply the methodologies of corporate efficiency, and whatever, applied statistics.... when the obvious thing you want to see happen is for your bellcow RB break a few tackles and stride untouched triumphantly into the end zone. Especially the way it unfolded coming off the dramatic 4th and 16 play. Game over.
In any case, in any situation, even when it's tactically defensible, bleeding the clock down and deliberately not trying to score a TD is a coward's way to play. It's just unsporting. It can be more efficient, but it's just an effin' football game. If it were me I would make a rule against it. If you ever deliberately, blatantly, manifestly, unmistakably try not to score, and slide onto your knee when you could have walked into the end zone.... It's a fifteen yarder and loss of down. And you can't kick a FG. It's not allowed....
In any case, in any situation, even when it's tactically defensible, bleeding the clock down and deliberately not trying to score a TD is a coward's way to play. It's just unsporting. It can be more efficient, but it's just an effin' football game. If it were me I would make a rule against it. If you ever deliberately, blatantly, manifestly, unmistakably try not to score, and slide onto your knee when you could have walked into the end zone.... It's a fifteen yarder and loss of down. And you can't kick a FG. It's not allowed....
I agree in many ways. The idea in building a team is to build an aggressive offense that plays to the height of its ability. Freeman has said so many times. Sliding down in front of the goal line on an open lane to score in order to burn clock is weak and could damage team chemistry. if the "time management approach" doesn't work and the game is lost. The team already had the problem of not having enough players on the field which is on the coaching.
It was like telling the team that they were not good enough to stop them. I was at the Stanford game at Notre Dame where the team did stop them with a momentous goal line stand - a highlight in the history of ND football.
How many points were they down. Teams do it all the time. If a field goal can beat you. You let the other team score so you have a chance
Exactly, it will damage chemistry. It's not good for the competitive spirit. Maybe the NFL, they're sort of hardened veterans, and it's a 'business' after all.... But not in college ball. If you want to run straight into the line and set up for the FG that's a totally different story and that's fine. But none of this I could easily score, untouched, but I'm going to deliberately down myself at the two yard line or whatnot.... you gotta stay away from that. You can't be doing that.
No. You don't coach it if you believe that having players hesitant to score will be more harm than its worth and/or practice time would be better spent elsewhere.
