Why play your star Jr's when you know they will sit out the final games?

[4-4-3]

It's simple.

Bowl games that aren't playoff games are the first game of the following season. Not the final game of the current season.

teams should use the 15 extra practices to get ready for spring and NOT treat it as a send off for aspiring NFL or seniors.

simple as that. All it takes is a change in perspective.

YES I WOULD!!! Football is the ultimate game of risk and reward. It is the ULTIMATE team game.

All that needs to be done is for a clause to be inserted in scholarships that does not permit opting out without some kind of financial penalty or incurrence of a FUTURE debt.

Players are getting a free education IN RETURN FOR PLAYING FOOTBALL. It's a QUID QUO PRO. They should not have the sole and unconditional prerogative NOT TO PLAY if they fear injury for any reason. You play football, you get hurt. Whoever doesn't see the basic INEQUITY in what players are now doing has switched his allegiance to the WELL-BEING and FUTURE earnings potential of soon to be EX-ND PLAYERS and away from the team they committed to PLAY FOR.

And that's fine as long as those VICARIOUS FINANCIAL "BENEFICIARIES" -- hah! what a joke! -- realize that they're now rooting like IDIOTIC GAME/REALITY SHOW VIEWERS for the financial good fortune of others who couldn't care less about them EVEN IF THEY KNEW WHO THOSE "GOOD SAMARATINS" WERE.

What ridiculous hero-worship -- not to mention VIRTUE SIGNALING -- ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK. Trouble is, IT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S BANK, not the HERO WORSHIPER'S. So, for those so elated at the prospect of players like Hamilton, Williams and Mayer scoring big PAYDAYS, don't expect to receive your ROOTERS' CUT any time soon.

Welcome to college football as the latest version of the same FINANCIAL FREE FOR ALL we now see everywhere. And welcome, too, to the SHLUBS who will continue for some -- GOD KNOWS WHAT -- reason to get their VICARIOUS FINANCIAL KICKS from other people making tons of money.

The best way to feel good about "money making?"

MAKE YOUR OWN.

 

[4-4-3]

Absolutely ridiculous!
No where in a player’s scholarship contact does it say YOU MUST PLAY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF GAMES. If players can enter the transfer portal at anytime, then a player can decide if they want to play in a bowl game. Also, ND coaches and teammates have not said anything negative about about these player’s decision to enter the draft now. It’s people like you that have zero connection to the team that wants to complain.

Paying back tuition? What a joke!!!!!!! Those players earned the university that much and more. Williams is one of the main reasons ND is playing in this bowl. The money ND is making from this bowl alone cover every dime they gave these players.

So, let’s unpack your logic.

If a player doesn’t have to play in a bowl game or even in “a certain amount of games” – your words -- that could also be interpreted as his not having to play in ANY GAMES as zero -- a number --still qualifies as a CERTAIN AMOUNT.

So, I ask you -- JUST HOW MANY GAMES IS A PLAYER REQUIRED TO PLAY -- IN RETURN FOR A SCHOLARSHIP?

Also, is it your presumption that it’s the player who SOLELY GETS TO DECIDE? If so, what was the scholarship given IN RETURN FOR? What was the CONSIDERATION? It’s a QUID PRO QUO, no?

Frankly, this was NEVER an issue and most likely NOT EVEN CONTEMPLATED, and THAT’S WHY THERE ARE NO STIPULATIONS REGARDING IT in scholarships – if indeed that's the case.

But now that players are UNILATERALLY opting out, this all needs to be a) ADDRESSED and b) EQUITABLY RESOLVED.

Football is a COMMAND AND CONTROL endeavor. You are either AVAILABLE FOR DUTY or you aren’t. But when you’re a scholarship KID on a team RUN BY ADULTS who provide you with both the facilities and opportunities to SHOWCASE YOUR TALENTS, you have a DUTY to PERFORM.

THIS DUTY WAS ALWAYS IMPLIED and the implication included EVERY GAME. That now must be CODIFIED CONTRACTUALLY.

Otherwise, the team you put on the field on a given Saturday is simply the team that has DECIDED TO SHOW UP.

That’s where your LOGIC takes us, doesn't it? And with all respect, IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.

 

[Get Nasty]

All that needs to be done is for a clause to be inserted in scholarships that does not permit opting out without some kind of financial penalty or incurrence of a FUTURE debt.

Players are getting a free education IN RETURN FOR PLAYING FOOTBALL. It's a QUID QUO PRO. They should not have the sole and unconditional prerogative NOT TO PLAY if they fear injury for any reason. You play football, you get hurt. Whoever doesn't see the basic INEQUITY in what players are now doing has switched his allegiance to the WELL-BEING and FUTURE earnings potential of soon to be EX-ND PLAYERS and away from the team they committed to PLAY FOR.

And that's fine as long as those VICARIOUS FINANCIAL "BENEFICIARIES" -- hah! what a joke! -- realize that they're now rooting like IDIOTIC GAME/REALITY SHOW VIEWERS for the financial good fortune of others who couldn't care less about them EVEN IF THEY KNEW WHO THOSE "GOOD SAMARATINS" WERE.

What ridiculous hero-worship -- not to mention VIRTUE SIGNALING -- ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK. Trouble is, IT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S BANK, not the HERO WORSHIPER'S. So, for those so elated at the prospect of players like Hamilton, Williams and Mayer scoring big PAYDAYS, don't expect to receive your ROOTERS' CUT any time soon.

Welcome to college football as the latest version of the same FINANCIAL FREE FOR ALL we now see everywhere. And welcome, too, to the SHLUBS who will continue for some -- GOD KNOWS WHAT -- reason to get their VICARIOUS FINANCIAL KICKS from other people making tons of money.

The best way to feel good about "money making?"

MAKE YOUR OWN.

They can be taken off scholarship, most opting out don’t care though. It’s the same for anyone quitting.

I think freeman handled it well. “We appreciate all they have done for us, but they have chosen to no longer be apart of this team.”

 

[echowaker]

Two distinctly separate issues.

Your wrong about the contract, the coach rather than the players decides how many games the player will participate in.

As to what recourse the University should have, repayment of their tuition, room and board would be appropriate

Recourse for what ? The players participated in football through the completion of the fall semester . They won't be enrolled for the next semester. Also establishing a silly penalty like that would destroy the recruiting dynamic for any school.

 

[echowaker]

When you and others put the interest of individuals above the interests of the team and the university you’ve lost your mind.

Hey, let’s extend this entitlement philosophy to the military and the battlefield.

You want to make it okay for soldiers to quit on their units in the midst of combat because they might get wounded.

Read Tom Brokaw’s book about “The Greatest Generation“.

We’re turning out a generation of entitled wimps

Coo- coo....

 

[echowaker]

All that needs to be done is for a clause to be inserted in scholarships that does not permit opting out without some kind of financial penalty or incurrence of a FUTURE debt.

Players are getting a free education IN RETURN FOR PLAYING FOOTBALL. It's a QUID QUO PRO. They should not have the sole and unconditional prerogative NOT TO PLAY if they fear injury for any reason. You play football, you get hurt. Whoever doesn't see the basic INEQUITY in what players are now doing has switched his allegiance to the WELL-BEING and FUTURE earnings potential of soon to be EX-ND PLAYERS and away from the team they committed to PLAY FOR.

And that's fine as long as those VICARIOUS FINANCIAL "BENEFICIARIES" -- hah! what a joke! -- realize that they're now rooting like IDIOTIC GAME/REALITY SHOW VIEWERS for the financial good fortune of others who couldn't care less about them EVEN IF THEY KNEW WHO THOSE "GOOD SAMARATINS" WERE.

What ridiculous hero-worship -- not to mention VIRTUE SIGNALING -- ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK. Trouble is, IT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S BANK, not the HERO WORSHIPER'S. So, for those so elated at the prospect of players like Hamilton, Williams and Mayer scoring big PAYDAYS, don't expect to receive your ROOTERS' CUT any time soon.

Welcome to college football as the latest version of the same FINANCIAL FREE FOR ALL we now see everywhere. And welcome, too, to the SHLUBS who will continue for some -- GOD KNOWS WHAT -- reason to get their VICARIOUS FINANCIAL KICKS from other people making tons of money.

The best way to feel good about "money making?"

MAKE YOUR OWN.

They played for the semester they were enrolled. They won't be there next semester as students. Go ahead an institute a penalty and see how that plays on the recruiting trail. The NCAA does not have the authority to institute a rule like that across the board. They would get crushed in court pretty much like they always do.

 

[echowaker]

They can be taken off scholarship, most opting out don’t care though. It’s the same for anyone quitting.

I think freeman handled it well. “We appreciate all they have done for us, but they have chosen to no longer be apart of this team.”

They've taken themselves off scholarship.

 

[Zorich 88]

#1 the greatest Man I ever knew was my Grandfather. First generation Sicilian. So when you bring up the “Greatest Generation”. That’s my Grandfather. I have nothing but respect from anyone that lived in that generation.

#2 An individual still has the right to do what he feels is best for him and his family. Especially when not one person that is connected to the ND program, has said anything bad about the decision not to play.

Why? Because they understand what is at stake for these young men if they get hurt.
ND fans of all people should understand this. Jaylon Smith was never the same player from the injury he suffered in the bowl game vs OSU.

#3 “A generation of entitled whips”? Man, there are some great people in this generation. I like to think my children are pretty good people. My oldest son plays college football right now. He is a good young man that has worked hard to get where he is. He is currently a Freshman. The team red shirted him this year. This was the first season he ever sat on anyone’s bench in any sport. It was very difficult for him to except the redshirt. However, he understands the process. Unfortunately, a lot of his class has entered the transfer portal. He is not angry or upset with his teammates. He understood that they have to do what is right for them. Those players should not have the credits they earned taken away. Life moves on!

I say all that to say, this is football. This is not life or death. This is not war/military. This is a game that most will only play until they graduate from HS. I have zero animosity towards these young men. I thank them for all the great memories they brought us over the past few years.

 

[Get Nasty]

They've taken themselves off scholarship.

Majority yes, some have stayed and finished spring semester to graduate while preparing for draft.

 

[shabak]

mayer will be treated differently even in practice next year, he won't be taking all the reps. Others will get a lot of reps in practice.

Honestly so disappointed that ELI tore his ACL. I thought he would be our second best TE by midseason

Eli tore his ACL playing basketball. You think he would have enough brains not to do that? High school kids are competitive. These type of injuries will occur. I'm sure there were a few Notre Dame football players who injured themselves playing pickup games if I recall.

 

[Ara64]

In my view opting out of a football game is the highest form of selfishness in the game. There's ninety eight players, coaches, and university depending on these young men. If your afraid of getting hurt then your not a football player. I picked the game of football and today I walk around on two pieces of knee. Would I do it again---heck yes because I love the game. I would give two arms and legs for the opportunity to help my team win a major bowl. With great risk comes great reward. WINNING is worth the risk.

 

[Patrirish]

Absolutely ridiculous!
No where in a player’s scholarship contact does it say YOU MUST PLAY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF GAMES. If players can enter the transfer portal at anytime, then a player can decide if they want to play in a bowl game. Also, ND coaches and teammates have not said anything negative about about these player’s decision to enter the draft now. It’s people like you that have zero connection to the team that wants to complain.

Paying back tuition? What a joke!!!!!!! Those players earned the university that much and more. Williams is one of the main reasons ND is playing in this bowl. The money ND is making from this bowl alone cover every dime they gave these players.

You don’t understand something, those players didn’t earn a dime for Notre Dame..

if they never played the NBC contract wouldn’t have changed, season ticket holders wouldn’t have changed and the next man in would have prevailed.

Players come and go but Notre Dame remains as an icon in college football.

The entity, not the individuals is what’s important and is where the glory resides.

if you went to ND you would understand that.

No one player or players are more important than the University.

The NCAA is largely responsible for the instability in college football today.

The entitlement generation is responsible for the “me first” philosophy.

 

[Zorich 88]

Let’s just use Jaylan Smith as an example. The young man played 3 strong years for ND. Did everything asked of him. Had 1 game left in his ND/college career. Everyone knew Smith was leaving for the NFL and will probably be a top 5 pick. That injury has effected his career. He was never the same.

Who are you, to say he should have played in that game? Yes, give your opinion. However, your opinion means nothing.

You say this needs to be addressed???? Why???? Because fans like you don’t want there teams to lose? You could careless about a player after he takes the ND uniform off. I cannot believe that grown adult men wanna go after college kids because they don’t wanna risk injury in a bowl game.

The decision these young men make have ZERO IMPACT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!! However, if they end up getting hurt like J. Smith did, then what??? Well at least worthless fans like yourself are happy.

You are pitiful!

 

[Patrirish]

Let’s just use Jaylan Smith as an example. The young man played 3 strong years for ND. Did everything asked of him. Had 1 game left in his ND/college career. Everyone knew Smith was leaving for the NFL and will probably be a top 5 pick. That injury has effected his career. He was never the same.

Who are you, to say he should have played in that game? Yes, give your opinion. However, your opinion means nothing.

You say this needs to be addressed???? Why???? Because fans like you don’t want there teams to lose? You could careless about a player after he takes the ND uniform off. I cannot believe that grown adult men wanna go after college kids because they don’t wanna risk injury in a bowl game.

The decision these young men make have ZERO IMPACT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!! However, if they end up getting hurt like J. Smith did, then what??? Well at least worthless fans like yourself are happy.

You are pitiful!

Smith’s injury was a fluke, a tragic fluke.

in the last 10 years how many players playing in post-season games have sustained career ending injuries that prevented them from going to the NFL ?

so, is it really injury they fear or is it a desire to spend the time improving their Pro-day performances ?

By the way, as I type this Smith is playing for an NFL team

 

[HarlemIrish]

College football could be going down the drain.
I am actually a little worried about Mike Mayers Jr season. Will he sit out much of the season knowing he will be a high draft pick?
Since most of the fans and star players think the NFL is Everything nowadays why should a GREAT junior player risk getting hurt his last season?
Maybe the college coaches need to wizen up and start playing the freshman and sophmores alot more than the star juniors.

*** Kyle Hamilton and Kyren Williams have tempered my enthusiasm for college football (the only sport I follow--though I do like to watch Quenton Nelson youtube videos)

Is anybody else feeling the same way? That star Juniors are going to play less and less and that is going to ruin the quality of the game.
I just turned the Mizz vs Army bowl game off because half the Tigers team is in street clothes dancing and laughing on the sidelines.

I hope Michael Mayer plays the entire season next year including the bowl game--that would lift my spirits !

Bodi, I love CFB but it stinks what's going on.

 

[Zorich 88]

Smith’s injury was a fluke, a tragic fluke.

in the last 10 years how many players playing in post-season games have sustained career ending injuries that prevented them from going to the NFL ?

so, is it really injury they fear or is it a desire to spend the time improving their Pro-day performances ?

By the way, as I type this Smith is playing for an NFL team

 

[Zorich 88]

Is it rare that a player gets injured his last game prior to turning pro? Yes!

Can it it happen and has it happened? Yes!

What’s the percentage of college players make the NFL? These guys have a legit shot at being drafted and signed by an NFL team. Why risk it?
It’s just as rare to make the NFL as it is getting hurt in a bowl game.

Williams have ND everything he had. If that young man feels like it is in his best interest to bypass a bowl game, that’s his choice.

Yes, Smith is still hanging on by thread to stay on a roster. He would have been a top 5 pick and possibly a top 5 LB in the NFL. The injury changed his athletic ability.

Again, as a fan, who are we to be upset with a 20 year old young man deciding not to play in a football game?

 

[88ND]

Lol at some of these comments. Raise them the right way? Not jeopardizing their futures that is so close in front of them…most everyone would tell their children to do the same thing. If Hamilton or Mayer were your sons, and they’re guaranteed first round picks, you’d tell them to go and play?

Pretty sad (but telling the today theme with too many selfish mimds)
that you find humor with the subject.
Let's put all the wholesome school first/football second talk aside for a min.

Football is a team sport and a huge commitment.
We aren't talking about foregoing your senior year altogether. While that's still bailing on your team you're at least allowing your team to adjust for your departure. In that case they've got all spring, summer and pre-season to make the necessary adjustments to your absence. Again, leaving after your junior season is not ideal but in that case it's really no different than graduation.

You want to bring up Hamilton...ok.
How many players on defense...especially the back seven of that defense would like him to play? How many players are still trying to show some skills for their possible Sunday future? His presence alone helps everybody on that defense. If you can't understand that you've never played football at any decent level. His presence makes the other ten better. His presence gives his teammates more opportunities to make plays. (Which helps them in their same Sunday goal just as Hamilton)
How might you ask? His coverage skills can force a QB to hold the ball just a tad longer. Now we've got more sack and QB hurry opportunities from the front 7.
The corner backs don't feel like they're on an island so much and will have their chances to make plays. The backers are aided in coverage just by his presence over the top.

Hamilton has more god given ability than most but you can bet he's benefited from the play of others. An errant throw due to a rush that he intercepts or knocks down. A linebacker properly containing the edge allowing him a huge tackle for no or little gain.

If a player is committing to a particular season then finish out your damn commitment. In other words you play until the end!!

 

[Zorich 88]

Pretty sad (but telling the today theme with too many selfish mimds)
that you find humor with the subject.
Let's put all the wholesome school first/football second talk aside for a min.

Football is a team sport and a huge commitment.
We aren't talking about foregoing your senior year altogether. While that's still bailing on your team you're at least allowing your team to adjust for your departure. In that case they've got all spring, summer and pre-season to make the necessary adjustments to your absence. Again, leaving after your junior season is not ideal but in that case it's really no different than graduation.

You want to bring up Hamilton...ok.
How many players on defense...especially the back seven of that defense would like him to play? How many players are still trying to show some skills for their possible Sunday future? His presence alone helps everybody on that defense. If you can't understand that you've never played football at any decent level. His presence makes the other ten better. His presence gives his teammates more opportunities to make plays. (Which helps them in their same Sunday goal just as Hamilton)
How might you ask? His coverage skills can force a QB to hold the ball just a tad longer. Now we've got more sack and QB hurry opportunities from the front 7.
The corner backs don't feel like they're on an island so much and will have their chances to make plays. The backers are aided in coverage just by his presence over the top.

Hamilton has more god given ability than most but you can bet he's benefited from the play of others. An errant throw due to a rush that he intercepts or knocks down. A linebacker properly containing the edge allowing him a huge tackle for no or little gain.

If a player is committing to a particular season then finish out your damn commitment. In other words you play until the end!!

You are saying this simply from the seat of a fan. You have zero investment in any of these players.

It is easy for you to say “finish out your damn commitment. In other words you play until the end!!’ You have no skin in the game buddy. This is not War. This is a game. That’s it, it’s a game where players run around a 100 yard field having fun. Why are you so offended by this???

Get a life!!!

 

[88ND]

Is it rare that a player gets injured his last game prior to turning pro? Yes!

Can it it happen and has it happened? Yes!

Williams have ND everything he had. If that young man feels like it is in his best interest to bypass a bowl game, that’s his choice.

Yes, Smith is still hanging on by thread to stay on a roster. He would have been a top 5 pick and possibly a top 5 LB in the NFL. The injury changed his athletic ability.

Again, as a fan, who are we to be upset with a 20 year old young man deciding not to play in a football game?

No no no....

Smith is hanging on because of arrogance and ignorance.

He's NOT an inside linebacker!!! He got this hair up his ass to switch to inside linebacker. There is a theme in football of the two toughest players. Fullback and middle/inside linebacker. They need to be cement heads. Headaches...if you don't have a headache after a game at those positions you aren't playing the position right. (I'm NOT joking)

I have no idea why he insisted on switching to inside but that's not his thing.

Had he stayed on the edge...in particular in a 3-4 defense...he'd be enjoying elite status in the NFL right now.

Remember this ..ND played a 3-4 when he committed out of high school as an OLB.
His first three steps are the quickest I've ever seen. He'd create insane havoc on the opposing QB. A tackles worst nightmare.
Look at his ex teamate...
Van der esche (sp?) He plays inside exactly how it's needed to be played. That is NOT Jaylon's thing.

The switch to inside was/is Jaylon's problem.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Is it rare that a player gets injured his last game prior to turning pro? Yes!

Can it it happen and has it happened? Yes!

Williams have ND everything he had. If that young man feels like it is in his best interest to bypass a bowl game, that’s his choice.

Yes, Smith is still hanging on by thread to stay on a roster. He would have been a top 5 pick and possibly a top 5 LB in the NFL. The injury changed his athletic ability.

Again, as a fan, who are we to be upset with a 20 year old young man deciding not to play in a football game?

To me its not about being upset that a player isn’t playing in a bowl game as I feel the same way about all opt outs, not just ND. I totally understand the decision to opt out but recognize it as hypocritical because it would be safe to assume every player that has opted out would have had a problem had the school withdrawn the scholarship once a player was no longer capable of playing football (medical scholarships). However, the injury scenario never played out for the guys opting out so the hypocrisy doesn’t really stand out. I’m not saying schools shouldn’t put a player on a medical. Just making a case.

I would like to see a penalty for opting out though I don’t think it would happen. Even if the schools formed a coalition, smaller schools wouldn’t benefit from it and wouldn’t agree to it.

But the reason I want to see the penalty is because in my opinion they haven’t fulfilled the obligation of the scholarship. There’s still one game left. Its not an exhibition. It still counts for the final record and can help recruiting. Hypothetical: Consider all else equal in this scenario. School A has finished 12-1 four straight years and won a bowl game against a top 10 team each year. School B has finished 11-2 four straight years and has lost each of their last four bowl games. Which school looks like they’re more a title contender? School A, obviously. The bowl games matter for the perception of recruiting and the program. It doesn’t matter what we think as much as the media and the recruits think (media creates perception).

If the bowl game doesn’t matter, then why does any game matter once a school is clearly not in the playoffs? Should players not play the last two games because their team is 6-4?

I think there is a certain segment of society that is biased towards the little guy (player) over the big guy (school/NCAA). Its an extension of the entitlement era in which we live (I’m NOT saying that a player opting out is an entitled jerk — but its an extension of our society) “Psh, the school will be fine”. That’s the attitude I think people have. And I say, yes, so will the players. They can afford it. Whats $10,000-$55,000 to them when after taxes they’re at a minimum going to have $400,000 if they make a roster for a full year. If you make millions then its a drop in the bucket. If a player is unsure about making a roster, then he better play the bowl game so he’s not on the hook.

My opinion has nothing to do with Notre Dame. I don’t rebuke any player making the financial decision and understand the choice 100%. I just would like to see a penalty because I don’t think its fair to the school.

 

[Golson5]

No no no....

Smith is hanging on because of arrogance and ignorance.

He's NOT an inside linebacker!!! He got this hair up his ass to switch to inside linebacker. There is a theme in football of the two toughest players. Fullback and middle/inside linebacker. They need to be cement heads. Headaches...if you don't have a headache after a game at those positions you aren't playing the position right. (I'm NOT joking)

I have no idea why he insisted on switching to inside but that's not his thing.

Had he stayed on the edge...in particular in a 3-4 defense...he'd be enjoying elite status in the NFL right now.

Remember this ..ND played a 3-4 when he committed out of high school as an OLB.
His first three steps are the quickest I've ever seen. He'd create insane havoc on the opposing QB. A tackles worst nightmare.
Look at his ex teamate...
Van der esche (sp?) He plays inside exactly how it's needed to be played. That is NOT Jaylon's thing.

The switch to inside was/is Jaylon's problem.

He's barely hanging on because he lost athleticism. Very sad. He could have been an all timer

He's never been close to the same

 

[echowaker]

Majority yes, some have stayed and finished spring semester to graduate while preparing for draft.

Such as ? Almost every player I have ever heard of that knew they had a legitimate opportunity to be drafted spent the time between the end of their season and the draft at a training facility, usually in warm weather.

 

[mirer03]

All that needs to be done is for a clause to be inserted in scholarships that does not permit opting out without some kind of financial penalty or incurrence of a FUTURE debt.

Players are getting a free education IN RETURN FOR PLAYING FOOTBALL. It's a QUID QUO PRO. They should not have the sole and unconditional prerogative NOT TO PLAY if they fear injury for any reason. You play football, you get hurt. Whoever doesn't see the basic INEQUITY in what players are now doing has switched his allegiance to the WELL-BEING and FUTURE earnings potential of soon to be EX-ND PLAYERS and away from the team they committed to PLAY FOR.

And that's fine as long as those VICARIOUS FINANCIAL "BENEFICIARIES" -- hah! what a joke! -- realize that they're now rooting like IDIOTIC GAME/REALITY SHOW VIEWERS for the financial good fortune of others who couldn't care less about them EVEN IF THEY KNEW WHO THOSE "GOOD SAMARATINS" WERE.

What ridiculous hero-worship -- not to mention VIRTUE SIGNALING -- ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK. Trouble is, IT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S BANK, not the HERO WORSHIPER'S. So, for those so elated at the prospect of players like Hamilton, Williams and Mayer scoring big PAYDAYS, don't expect to receive your ROOTERS' CUT any time soon.

Welcome to college football as the latest version of the same FINANCIAL FREE FOR ALL we now see everywhere. And welcome, too, to the SHLUBS who will continue for some -- GOD KNOWS WHAT -- reason to get their VICARIOUS FINANCIAL KICKS from other people making tons of money.

The best way to feel good about "money making?"

MAKE YOUR OWN.

1. The bowl season occurs during winter break between semesters. A kid can leave at any time.

2. Bowl games aren't guaranteed and if Notre Dame can opt out of a bowl game that they don't think benefits the school, then why can't the kid?

3. Bowl games mean NOTHING. Outside of the championship series it's the start of the next chapter for players and programs.

Programs use that time to get younger guys ready.

If I'm a top draft pick and you want to dock me a prorated amount of money for not finishing the semester....which is already over....good luck with that.

 

[Get Nasty]

Eli tore his ACL playing basketball. You think he would have enough brains not to do that? High school kids are competitive. These type of injuries will occur. I'm sure there were a few Notre Dame football players who injured themselves playing pickup games if I recall.

College student athletes play intramural sports and pick up games…. I used to play and played with a lot of football players that ended up in the nfl …. Can’t live in a bubble

 

[notredamerises23]

YES I WOULD!!! Football is the ultimate game of risk and reward. It is the ULTIMATE team game.

Lol, I highly doubt that. Come on. I love Kyle, and I wish he’d play, but I haven’t thought about him once since he‘s been out. I understand 100% what he’s doing.

 

[notredamerises23]

Pretty sad (but telling the today theme with too many selfish mimds)
that you find humor with the subject.
Let's put all the wholesome school first/football second talk aside for a min.

Football is a team sport and a huge commitment.
We aren't talking about foregoing your senior year altogether. While that's still bailing on your team you're at least allowing your team to adjust for your departure. In that case they've got all spring, summer and pre-season to make the necessary adjustments to your absence. Again, leaving after your junior season is not ideal but in that case it's really no different than graduation.

You want to bring up Hamilton...ok.
How many players on defense...especially the back seven of that defense would like him to play? How many players are still trying to show some skills for their possible Sunday future? His presence alone helps everybody on that defense. If you can't understand that you've never played football at any decent level. His presence makes the other ten better. His presence gives his teammates more opportunities to make plays. (Which helps them in their same Sunday goal just as Hamilton)
How might you ask? His coverage skills can force a QB to hold the ball just a tad longer. Now we've got more sack and QB hurry opportunities from the front 7.
The corner backs don't feel like they're on an island so much and will have their chances to make plays. The backers are aided in coverage just by his presence over the top.

Hamilton has more god given ability than most but you can bet he's benefited from the play of others. An errant throw due to a rush that he intercepts or knocks down. A linebacker properly containing the edge allowing him a huge tackle for no or little gain.

If a player is committing to a particular season then finish out your damn commitment. In other words you play until the end!!

Easy for you to say who has zero vested in what happens to him. Zero. Of course he benefits from teammates, but you can say that about anyone. He‘s a few months away from becoming a millionaire and creating generational wealth. Why would he risk that for a game that has basically zero consequence?

As an alum, I have zero problem with what Kyle is doing and what Mayer might do next year. Zero. I highly, highly doubt any of his teammates do, either. Most of the people on this board aren’t almus and have never even sat in ND Stadium, have nothing to do with the university and are casting judgment on what 21 year olds do who have an opportunity in front of them that less than .0000001% of humanity will ever have.

 

[4-4-3]

1. The bowl season occurs during winter break between semesters. A kid can leave at any time.

2. Bowl games aren't guaranteed and if Notre Dame can opt out of a bowl game that they don't think benefits the school, then why can't the kid?

3. Bowl games mean NOTHING. Outside of the championship series it's the start of the next chapter for players and programs.

Programs use that time to get younger guys ready.

If I'm a top draft pick and you want to dock me a prorated amount of money for not finishing the semester....which is already over....good luck with that.

Your reasoning is one-sided. A scholarship is a contract. A quid pro quo. In the past, the implications were APPARENTLY clear – YOU GIVE ME A CONTRACT AND I PLAY FOOTBALL FOR YOU ASSUMING I’M NOT IMPAIRED IN SOME WAY FROM DOING SO.

Now, players have started not merely to leave early (fine) but also to opt out of games for reasons that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TEAM THEY COMMITTED TO PLAY FOR. And if only by implication, that includes, health permitting, every game the team schedules.

To opt out of playing ANY GAME is at the very least an ACT OF BAD FAITH, and according to how the scholarship doc reads it may also be a BREACH OF CONTRACT. I don’t know about the latter as I’ve never been involved in such a transaction having played myself without a free ride at D-III level.

So, now that “things have changed,” NEW RULES MUST BE ESTABLISHED so as to know what’s expected, what’s required and what the ONGOING PARAMETERS are. Logically, if a player refuses to play in a bowl game, what other games might he decide not to play in?

How about the whole second half of a promising season if his draft stock is high enough?

Look at Hamilton. That injury he received, which appears not to have done any structural damage, IRONICALLY SAVED HIM from possible GREATER INJURY that could have occurred at ANY TIME up until the bowl game.

Will other players now see that and CONCLUDE – DAMN, I SHOULD SHUT IT DOWN EARLY LEST I RUIN MYSELF FOR THE LEAGUE!

My view is if a player currently does that he’s BROKEN FAITH and possibly the terms of his contract and should LEAVE THE TEAM while being held accountable for his LACK OF CONTRIBUTION from that point forward. After all, it was FOOTBALL that got him to the university.

But to leave this all merely as an OPEN SWITCH would be not only IRRESPONSIBLE but also NUTS, and I assure you it WON’T HAPPEN. Or else teams will lose morale, games and FAN SUPPORT. Players come and go, but the TEAM REMAINS.

Now, if you’re one of these kids’ agents or lawyers, the idea of pushing him to GAME THE SYSTEM makes perfect commercial sense. But for the average fan to GO TO THE MAT for of one of these players strikes me as ridiculous bordering on pathetic. I mean, where’s your cut or even a pat on the head for being a “good Samaritan?”

To your points:

• A kid can leave at any time, PERIOD. Question is ACCORDING TO WHAT SET OF PROCEDURES. What are those procedures currently? And what should they be in the future now that opting out is a THING?
• The school opting out is of an entirely different order of magnitude. It’s their team, their facilities, their coaches and other employees – THEIR PROGRAM. They have the POWER. Without them there IS no ND football. Plus, kids are not guaranteed bowl appearances.
• Bowl games mean just as much as any NON-PLAYOFF game. Did the Toledo game matter since they were only a MAC team? Yes, it mattered. Bowl games also contribute to a team’s final ranking which, if nothing else, remains a critical DATA POINT. Helps SCHMOOZE recruits.

As for a kid having to pay back what he’s TAKEN FROM THE TEAM BY NOT APPEARING IN A GAME OR GAMES does not strike me IN THE LEAST as inequitable. This is why there must be NEW RULES governing all of this. If it’s going to get THIS COMMERCIAL, ALL STAKEHOLDERS MUST BE ON BOARD.

In the end, it’s a lot easier for the schools – BANDED TOGETHER – to hold the players accountable than vice versa. As long as the schools are not infringing on the players’ rights or breaking labor laws and such, they can make that scholarship language into an IRONCLAD commitment to play EVERY GAME. Or if that's viewed as too Draconian, then the schools can somehow be compensated for players WEAKEINING THE TEAMS, VIA OPTING OUT, THEY COMMITTED TO PLAY FOR.

But it has to be done on a wholesale basis or else those schools with both the INTELLIGENCE and the STONES to insist on an equitable approach will be UNFAIRLY DISADVANTAGED.

 

[Granite45]

ALL STAKEHOLDERS MUST BE ON BOARD.

You are not a stakeholder, nor are fans despite so many who seem to think such an idea. Fans invest nothing of real value other than simply paying for entertainment. Do you expect input into any film or concert you pay to see? It is silly to try consider fans in tis regard.

 

[4-4-3]

They played for the semester they were enrolled. They won't be there next semester as students. Go ahead an institute a penalty and see how that plays on the recruiting trail. The NCAA does not have the authority to institute a rule like that across the board. They would get crushed in court pretty much like they always do.

You have no way of knowing that they would get "crushed" in court. The schools and the NCAA can, as long as they don't break any laws or restrict anyone's rights, set up the rules of the sport any way they like. IT'S THEIR FRANCHISE.

What I'm arguing for is a standard set of equitable rules that protects EACH OF THE STAKEHOLDERS. I realize that some -- and you may be among them -- see their role as a kind of PLAYER ADVOCATE. That may be where your EMOTIONAL CONNECTION to the sport lies. If so, fair enough.

For me, as more of a PROCESS PERSON, it's the INTEGRITY of the game that matters most. I also believe in the SANCTITY OF CONTRACTS. In my view, scholarships should be CRYSTAL CLEAR as to what both the player and the school are getting in return for entering into what each assumes is a MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL CONTRACT.

Who in this world gets to opt out UNILATERALLY from any of their contracts? Can you opt out of your job, car payment, mortgage/rent, health insurance premium, electric bill, etc.?

Before we even get to what the ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES for opting out might be, we FIRST have to establish on what basis it's being done? Is it kosher? Was it ever anticipated? Do we need to revise scholarships in light of new developments?

My feeling is WE DO need to revise things. And from there it becomes a BARGAINING PROCESS. And whatever bargain is STRUCK, so be it. But to let players just decide WHEN THEY WILL OR WON'T PLAY is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE as per the other parties involved. And that's what many are missing here. THERE ARE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS HERE BESIDES THE PLAYERS.

In fact, the players only recently made it to the table WHICH IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT HOW SCHOLARSHIPS ARE HANDED OUT AND IN RETURN FOR EXACTLY WHAT.

You can't just leave all of the ANCILLARY ISSUES triggered by players opting out FLAPPING IN THE BREEZE. That's extremely SHORTSIGHTED THINKING. There's an entire ECOLOGY to college football with many more MOVING PARTS than the health of Kyle Hamilton's knee. Player advocacy is great but only as long as it promotes what's EQUITABLE.

 

[4-4-3]

You are not a stakeholder, nor are fans despite so many who seem to think such an idea. Fans invest nothing of real value other than simply paying for entertainment. Do you expect input into any film or concert you pay to see? It is silly to try consider fans in tis regard.

Correct, I'm not a stakeholder, but I HAVE BEEN in many commercial situations of a similar nature. And it's on the strength of my awareness of how CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENTS WORK that I'm making my argument.

There's a complex but clear enough RISK/REWARD component to this issue. Right now, the players want it both ways. I think what they're asserting, frankly, unless examined and regulated as necessary, could potentially DESTABILIZE THE GAME.

The whole thing needs to be looked at and from everyone's perspective: NCAA, colleges, boosters, networks, sponsors, NFL, labor laws, contract law, etc.

And those are my views simply as a poster and commentator. In effect, I'm explaining -- had I any actual power here -- the line I would be taking as a problem solver. I'm hardly a stranger to this sort of thing which is why I've repeatedly posted on it.

 

[Patrirish]

Coo- coo....

No, it’s the natural extension, you just don’t have the vision to see it

 

[Patrirish]

Is it rare that a player gets injured his last game prior to turning pro? Yes!

Can it it happen and has it happened? Yes!

What’s the percentage of college players make the NFL? These guys have a legit shot at being drafted and signed by an NFL team. Why risk it?
It’s just as rare to make the NFL as it is getting hurt in a bowl game.

Williams have ND everything he had. If that young man feels like it is in his best interest to bypass a bowl game, that’s his choice.

Yes, Smith is still hanging on by thread to stay on a roster. He would have been a top 5 pick and possibly a top 5 LB in the NFL. The injury changed his athletic ability.

Again, as a fan, who are we to be upset with a 20 year old young man deciding not to play in a football game?

You avoided answering my question because you know that the answer destroys your narrative.

How many players were injured playing in post season games

Smith is not hanging on by a thread, he’s on an NFL roster

 

[mirer03]

Your reasoning is one-sided. A scholarship is a contract. A quid pro quo. In the past, the implications were APPARENTLY clear – YOU GIVE ME A CONTRACT AND I PLAY FOOTBALL FOR YOU ASSUMING I’M NOT IMPAIRED IN SOME WAY FROM DOING SO.

Now, players have started not merely to leave early (fine) but also to opt out of games for reasons that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TEAM THEY COMMITTED TO PLAY FOR. And if only by implication, that includes, health permitting, every game the team schedules.

To opt out of playing ANY GAME is at the very least an ACT OF BAD FAITH, and according to how the scholarship doc reads it may also be a BREACH OF CONTRACT. I don’t know about the latter as I’ve never been involved in such a transaction having played myself without a free ride at D-III level.

So, now that “things have changed,” NEW RULES MUST BE ESTABLISHED so as to know what’s expected, what’s required and what the ONGOING PARAMETERS are. Logically, if a player refuses to play in a bowl game, what other games might he decide not to play in?

How about the whole second half of a promising season if his draft stock is high enough?

Look at Hamilton. That injury he received, which appears not to have done any structural damage, IRONICALLY SAVED HIM from possible GREATER INJURY that could have occurred at ANY TIME up until the bowl game.

Will other players now see that and CONCLUDE – DAMN, I SHOULD SHUT IT DOWN EARLY LEST I RUIN MYSELF FOR THE LEAGUE!

My view is if a player currently does that he’s BROKEN FAITH and possibly the terms of his contract and should LEAVE THE TEAM while being held accountable for his LACK OF CONTRIBUTION from that point forward. After all, it was FOOTBALL that got him to the university.

But to leave this all merely as an OPEN SWITCH would be not only IRRESPONSIBLE but also NUTS, and I assure you it WON’T HAPPEN. Or else teams will lose morale, games and FAN SUPPORT. Players come and go, but the TEAM REMAINS.

Now, if you’re one of these kids’ agents or lawyers, the idea of pushing him to GAME THE SYSTEM makes perfect commercial sense. But for the average fan to GO TO THE MAT for of one of these players strikes me as ridiculous bordering on pathetic. I mean, where’s your cut or even a pat on the head for being a “good Samaritan?”

To your points:

• A kid can leave at any time, PERIOD. Question is ACCORDING TO WHAT SET OF PROCEDURES. What are those procedures currently? And what should they be in the future now that opting out is a THING?
• The school opting out is of an entirely different order of magnitude. It’s their team, their facilities, their coaches and other employees – THEIR PROGRAM. They have the POWER. Without them there IS no ND football. Plus, kids are not guaranteed bowl appearances.
• Bowl games mean just as much as any NON-PLAYOFF game. Did the Toledo game matter since they were only a MAC team? Yes, it mattered. Bowl games also contribute to a team’s final ranking which, if nothing else, remains a critical DATA POINT. Helps SCHMOOZE recruits.

As for a kid having to pay back what he’s TAKEN FROM THE TEAM BY NOT APPEARING IN A GAME OR GAMES does not strike me IN THE LEAST as inequitable. This is why there must be NEW RULES governing all of this. If it’s going to get THIS COMMERCIAL, ALL STAKEHOLDERS MUST BE ON BOARD.

In the end, it’s a lot easier for the schools – BANDED TOGETHER – to hold the players accountable than vice versa. As long as the schools are not infringing on the players’ rights or breaking labor laws and such, they can make that scholarship language into an IRONCLAD commitment to play EVERY GAME. Or if that's viewed as too Draconian, then the schools can somehow be compensated for players WEAKEINING THE TEAMS, VIA OPTING OUT, THEY COMMITTED TO PLAY FOR.

But it has to be done on a wholesale basis or else those schools with both the INTELLIGENCE and the STONES to insist on an equitable approach will be UNFAIRLY DISADVANTAGED.

A

You have no way of knowing that they would get "crushed" in court. The schools and the NCAA can, as long as they don't break any laws or restrict anyone's rights, set up the rules of the sport any way they like. IT'S THEIR FRANCHISE.

What I'm arguing for is a standard set of equitable rules that protects EACH OF THE STAKEHOLDERS. I realize that some -- and you may be among them -- see your role as a kind of PLAYER ADVOCATE. That may be where your EMOTIONAL CONNECTION to the sport lies. If so, fair enough.

For me, as more of a PROCESS PERSON, it's the INTEGRITY of the game that matters most. I also believe in the SANCTITY OF CONTRACTS. In my view, scholarships should be CRYSTAL CLEAR as to what both the player and the school are getting in return for entering into what each assumes is a MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL CONTRACT.

Who in this world gets to opt out UNILATERALLY from any of their contracts? Can you opt out of your job, car payment, mortgage/rent, health insurance premium, electric bill, etc.?

Before we even get to what the ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES for opting out might be, we FIRST have to establish on what basis it's being done? Is it kosher? Was it ever anticipated? Do we need to revise scholarships in light of new developments?

My feeling is WE DO need to revise things. And from there it becomes a BARGAINING PROCESS. And whatever bargain is STRUCK, so be it. But to let players just decide WHEN THEY WILL OR WON'T PLAY is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE as per the other parties involved. And that's what many are missing here. THERE ARE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS HERE BESIDES THE PLAYERS.

In fact, the players only recently made it to the table WHICH IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT HOW SCHOLARSHIPS ARE HANDED OUT AND IN RETURN FOR EXACTLY WHAT.

You can't just leave all of the ANCILLARY ISSUES triggered by players opting out FLAPPING IN THE BREEZE. That's extremely SHORTSIGHTED THINKING. There's an entire ECOLOGY to college football with many more MOVING PARTS than the health of Kyle Hamilton's knee. Player advocacy is great but only as long as it promotes what's EQUITABLE.

Um...contract employees can opt out at any time.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Eli tore his ACL playing basketball. You think he would have enough brains not to do that? High school kids are competitive. These type of injuries will occur. I'm sure there were a few Notre Dame football players who injured themselves playing pickup games if I recall.

Uhhh… I see no problem with a high schooler playing basketball. Odd take

 

[4-4-3]

You don’t understand something, those players didn’t earn a dime for Notre Dame..

if they never played the NBC contract wouldn’t have changed, season ticket holders wouldn’t have changed and the next man in would have prevailed.

Players come and go but Notre Dame remains as an icon in college football.

The entity, not the individuals is what’s important and is where the glory resides.

if you went to ND you would understand that.

No one player or players are more important than the University.

The NCAA is largely responsible for the instability in college football today.

The entitlement generation is responsible for the “me first” philosophy.

Largely agree on all points.

I also see a PSYCHOLOGICAL DIMENSION to this.

Given the WINNER/LOSER realities of the current socioeconomic landscape, a corollary narrative re college football has developed. It views -- rightly or wrongly -- the players as having been heretofore part of an ABUSED CLASS who are now having their BASTILLE DAY breakout. And, for many fans, what a TRIUMPH IT IS!

But in looking at the game SOLELY THROUGH THAT LENS, a lot of otherwise intelligent people are leaving out many of the facts you, I and others have cited repeatedly in our posts. Namely, that the game is NOT ENTIRELY about the players -- in fact, far from it. Though a vital one, they're just part of an overall CFB ecology and, IN NO WAY, central to its ENDURING INFRASTRUCTURE, whether that means the sport's history and/or future or the brick and mortar of its legendary stadiums.

In fact, the players, as you say, ARE JUST PASSING THROUGH.

What I see happening is A PRONOUNCED OVER-IDENTIFICTION BY FANS with a) the players' status as the FORMERLY OPPRESSED and b) their MORE RECENT DRIVE to become EMPOWERED STAKEHOLDERS in the overall setup. And as the players receive their putative so-called just deserts, those fans who've embraced this budding "underdog's counteroffensive" seem to be deriving some sort of SECOND or THIRD ORDER BENEFIT.

Trouble is, it's not material in any way but purely PSYCHOLOGICAL. And VICARIOUSLYS SO.

What I'm saying is that the MOOD OF THE TIMES easily ELICITS this kind of response to the total exclusion of all of the other realities surrounding college football and leads to a kind of NAIVE conclusion that whatever financially benefits players as they enter the pros is all that counts, even as it serves a kind of HIGHER JUSTICE. As I've said elsewhere, there's TONS of VICARIOUS SCHADENFREUDE mixed up in this, and if that's the kind of weak, predigested gruel that makes people happy, they're welcome to it.

But as for me, I DON'T EAT THE STUFF.

For me, what matters is the VIABILITY OF THE GAME GOING FORWARD. And that doesn't mean that I'm not open to change or an overall better deal for players. I simply don't think they should be able to CALL THE SHOTS AS TO UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES THEY WILL COMPETE when the presumption has always been that that was clearly NEVER THEIR DECISION TO MAKE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

So, if there's going to be greater AGENCY for players, free or otherwise, there needs to be GROUND RULES.

 

[4-4-3]

A


Um...contract employees can opt out at any time.

ARE THEY contract employees? Are they even EMPLOYEES?

I don't think so.

But they have ENTERED INTO A CONTRACT. What's that contract say? What's it imply? What were its presuppositions? What was the status of the game at the time? How have things changed MATERIALLY?

There's much more to this than players just sitting out games, though that's at the HEART OF IT.

And I'd suggest that the first thing to look at is ACCURATEY defining terms. But without an insider's knowledge of the documents and accompanying procedures, it's not something that can be done here.

What I do know is that if players decide if and when they play, you don't have a team and you don't have a top-down leadership scheme.

And as I've said before, the team that then shows up on a given Saturday is the one that wants to.

That won't work.

 

[4-4-3]

To me its not about being upset that a player isn’t playing in a bowl game as I feel the same way about all opt outs, not just ND. I totally understand the decision to opt out but recognize it as hypocritical because it would be safe to assume every player that has opted out would have had a problem had the school withdrawn the scholarship once a player was no longer capable of playing football (medical scholarships). However, the injury scenario never played out for the guys opting out so the hypocrisy doesn’t really stand out. I’m not saying schools shouldn’t put a player on a medical. Just making a case.

I would like to see a penalty for opting out though I don’t think it would happen. Even if the schools formed a coalition, smaller schools wouldn’t benefit from it and wouldn’t agree to it.

But the reason I want to see the penalty is because in my opinion they haven’t fulfilled the obligation of the scholarship. There’s still one game left. Its not an exhibition. It still counts for the final record and can help recruiting. Hypothetical: Consider all else equal in this scenario. School A has finished 12-1 four straight years and won a bowl game against a top 10 team each year. School B has finished 11-2 four straight years and has lost each of their last four bowl games. Which school looks like they’re more a title contender? School A, obviously. The bowl games matter for the perception of recruiting and the program. It doesn’t matter what we think as much as the media and the recruits think (media creates perception).

If the bowl game doesn’t matter, then why does any game matter once a school is clearly not in the playoffs? Should players not play the last two games because their team is 6-4?

I think there is a certain segment of society that is biased towards the little guy (player) over the big guy (school/NCAA). Its an extension of the entitlement era in which we live (I’m NOT saying that a player opting out is an entitled jerk — but its an extension of our society) “Psh, the school will be fine”. That’s the attitude I think people have. And I say, yes, so will the players. They can afford it. Whats $10,000-$55,000 to them when after taxes they’re at a minimum going to have $400,000 if they make a roster for a full year. If you make millions then its a drop in the bucket. If a player is unsure about making a roster, then he better play the bowl game so he’s not on the hook.

My opinion has nothing to do with Notre Dame. I don’t rebuke any player making the financial decision and understand the choice 100%. I just would like to see a penalty because I don’t think its fair to the school.

YOU COULDN'T BE MORE ON POINT. GOOD CLEAR THINKING.

And I wish I'd read your post prior to writing my last three or so as I would have saved myself some ink. As it was, I touched on almost all of what you covered as well.

What I'm really starting to see in this ongoing exchange is how much this "little guy/underdog" theme is at the root of the posts coming the other way. The class warfare angle with the NCAA and the colleges as the bad guys and the players as POPULIST HEROES.

And yet, the LOOMING IRONY is BREATHTAKING as many of these players being viewed as standing up to BIG BAD MONEY AND POWER are themselves on the THRESHOLD of joining THAT CLASS.

This is why SECOND-ORDER PURSUITS, such as sports fandom should never be allowed to edge out what one does for and by ONESELF as a FIRST-PERSON ACTOR. As I see it, there's NO GLORY in someone else's GLORY. You're still whoever you are.

Plus, basking in someone else's glory almost never benefits you materially.

 

[Zorich 88]

No no no....

Smith is hanging on because of arrogance and ignorance.

He's NOT an inside linebacker!!! He got this hair up his ass to switch to inside linebacker. There is a theme in football of the two toughest players. Fullback and middle/inside linebacker. They need to be cement heads. Headaches...if you don't have a headache after a game at those positions you aren't playing the position right. (I'm NOT joking)

I have no idea why he insisted on switching to inside but that's not his thing.

Had he stayed on the edge...in particular in a 3-4 defense...he'd be enjoying elite status in the NFL right now.

Remember this ..ND played a 3-4 when he committed out of high school as an OLB.
His first three steps are the quickest I've ever seen. He'd create insane havoc on the opposing QB. A tackles worst nightmare.
Look at his ex teamate...
Van der esche (sp?) He plays inside exactly how it's needed to be played. That is NOT Jaylon's thing.

The switch to inside was/is Jaylon's problem.

I didn’t answer your question? I said it’s rare players actually get hurt in the bowl. However, J. Smith is one to many!

You failed to address my point. Why as a fan are you so upset by this? As I said before, we are nothing but fans and this is only a game. It’s not that serious. So what if the young man wants to skip a bowl game.

My question to you is, how does Williams electing to skip the bowl game effect your life? Other than you simply being a fan.

 

[Zorich 88]

Your reasoning is one-sided. A scholarship is a contract. A quid pro quo. In the past, the implications were APPARENTLY clear – YOU GIVE ME A CONTRACT AND I PLAY FOOTBALL FOR YOU ASSUMING I’M NOT IMPAIRED IN SOME WAY FROM DOING SO.

Now, players have started not merely to leave early (fine) but also to opt out of games for reasons that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TEAM THEY COMMITTED TO PLAY FOR. And if only by implication, that includes, health permitting, every game the team schedules.

To opt out of playing ANY GAME is at the very least an ACT OF BAD FAITH, and according to how the scholarship doc reads it may also be a BREACH OF CONTRACT. I don’t know about the latter as I’ve never been involved in such a transaction having played myself without a free ride at D-III level.

So, now that “things have changed,” NEW RULES MUST BE ESTABLISHED so as to know what’s expected, what’s required and what the ONGOING PARAMETERS are. Logically, if a player refuses to play in a bowl game, what other games might he decide not to play in?

How about the whole second half of a promising season if his draft stock is high enough?

Look at Hamilton. That injury he received, which appears not to have done any structural damage, IRONICALLY SAVED HIM from possible GREATER INJURY that could have occurred at ANY TIME up until the bowl game.

Will other players now see that and CONCLUDE – DAMN, I SHOULD SHUT IT DOWN EARLY LEST I RUIN MYSELF FOR THE LEAGUE!

My view is if a player currently does that he’s BROKEN FAITH and possibly the terms of his contract and should LEAVE THE TEAM while being held accountable for his LACK OF CONTRIBUTION from that point forward. After all, it was FOOTBALL that got him to the university.

But to leave this all merely as an OPEN SWITCH would be not only IRRESPONSIBLE but also NUTS, and I assure you it WON’T HAPPEN. Or else teams will lose morale, games and FAN SUPPORT. Players come and go, but the TEAM REMAINS.

Now, if you’re one of these kids’ agents or lawyers, the idea of pushing him to GAME THE SYSTEM makes perfect commercial sense. But for the average fan to GO TO THE MAT for of one of these players strikes me as ridiculous bordering on pathetic. I mean, where’s your cut or even a pat on the head for being a “good Samaritan?”

To your points:

• A kid can leave at any time, PERIOD. Question is ACCORDING TO WHAT SET OF PROCEDURES. What are those procedures currently? And what should they be in the future now that opting out is a THING?
• The school opting out is of an entirely different order of magnitude. It’s their team, their facilities, their coaches and other employees – THEIR PROGRAM. They have the POWER. Without them there IS no ND football. Plus, kids are not guaranteed bowl appearances.
• Bowl games mean just as much as any NON-PLAYOFF game. Did the Toledo game matter since they were only a MAC team? Yes, it mattered. Bowl games also contribute to a team’s final ranking which, if nothing else, remains a critical DATA POINT. Helps SCHMOOZE recruits.

As for a kid having to pay back what he’s TAKEN FROM THE TEAM BY NOT APPEARING IN A GAME OR GAMES does not strike me IN THE LEAST as inequitable. This is why there must be NEW RULES governing all of this. If it’s going to get THIS COMMERCIAL, ALL STAKEHOLDERS MUST BE ON BOARD.

In the end, it’s a lot easier for the schools – BANDED TOGETHER – to hold the players accountable than vice versa. As long as the schools are not infringing on the players’ rights or breaking labor laws and such, they can make that scholarship language into an IRONCLAD commitment to play EVERY GAME. Or if that's viewed as too Draconian, then the schools can somehow be compensated for players WEAKEINING THE TEAMS, VIA OPTING OUT, THEY COMMITTED TO PLAY FOR.

But it has to be done on a wholesale basis or else those schools with both the INTELLIGENCE and the STONES to insist on an equitable approach will be UNFAIRLY DISADVANTAGED.

Have you ever read a scholarship contract? My son is on scholarship right now. Believe me, we read the contract.