Why play your star Jr's when you know they will sit out the final games?

[Zorich 88]

This whole thread is a joke. As I have already stated, as simply a fan, players opting to skip a bowl game, does not effect your life at all.

Also, anyone that believes that these type of decisions will “hurt the game” you are 100% wrong.

Even without Hamilton and Williams, this will be a great afternoon of football for my family. Those young men gave me and my family some fun Saturday’s.

I respect their decision to skip the bowl. Everyone on this board should do the same.

 

[echowaker]

Clemson made 6 straight playoffs and obviously had no opt outs. This year, a clear down year, with a team that has 1st round NFL draft potential, still no opt outs. Maybe it’s more about culture at a non football factory school like ND should be.

Do they have any potential early round picks eligible to leave ?

 

[echowaker]

Doubtful colleges will unite on this issue because the "have's" don't care because they just plug and play. One steps out another steps in equally as good or even better.

The real string puller in this matter is the NFL. One rule change, tweak, incentive...whatever...can immediately change this issue.

Why would they ? No benefit to them.

 

[echowaker]

This whole thread is a joke. As I have already stated, as simply a fan, players opting to skip a bowl game, does not effect your life at all.

Also, anyone that believes that these type of decisions will “hurt the game” you are 100% wrong.

Even without Hamilton and Williams, this will be a great afternoon of football for my family. Those young men gave me and my family some fun Saturday’s.

I respect their decision to skip the bowl. Everyone on this board should do the same.

Well said. Good luck to your son going forward. What position ?

 

[Zorich 88]

Well said. Good luck to your son going forward. What position ?

CB Thank you I appreciate it!

 

[echowaker]

CB Thank you I appreciate it!

Sure. My entire class except one guy got redshirted our freshman year. It was a good thing for me.

 

[88ND]

Why would they ? No benefit to them.

Not today. Nor tomorrow.
At some point if the college game deteriorates it very well can impact them.

The NFL loves structure and right now college football is on the cusp of chaos.

 

[88ND]

This whole thread is a joke. As I have already stated, as simply a fan, players opting to skip a bowl game, does not effect your life at all.

Also, anyone that believes that these type of decisions will “hurt the game” you are 100% wrong.

Even without Hamilton and Williams, this will be a great afternoon of football for my family. Those young men gave me and my family some fun Saturday’s.

I respect their decision to skip the bowl. Everyone on this board should do the same.

So if someone disagrees with you it's a joke? Alrighty then

 

[Zorich 88]

So if someone disagrees with you it's a joke? Alrighty then

I have had many of posters/fans disagree with me. I have rarely called the whole post a joke. The topic is a joke. A ha, ha funny joke. Grown men are actually upset because a college kid wants to skip a bowl game. That is fuuuuuuuuny. Hence my reference to the whole thread being a joke.

 

[Zorich 88]

Sure. My entire class except one guy got redshirted our freshman year. It was a good thing for me.

He was not happy with the redshirt because he has never sat the bench. But he is only 17 so he understands it gives his body an extra year to develop more. He graduated HS 6’ now he is 6’2 and up to 190. He will be the field CB. So the redshirt has already paid off.

 

[88ND]

I have had many of posters/fans disagree with me. I have rarely called the whole post a joke. The topic is a joke. A ha, ha funny joke. Grown men are actually upset because a college kid wants to skip a bowl game. That is fuuuuuuuuny. Hence my reference to the whole thread being a joke.

Couple things here...
I haven't said one thing on this issue as a selfish fan. On the contrary...what bothers me is the selfishness and disregard of the collective efforts from the team. Any team. This isn't an individual sport. Let's say a RB is borderline 1st three rounds/last 4 rounds of the draft. A big game against a decent matchup could prove massive come draft day. What if two of his linemen decide nah...I'll sit this out. It's meaningless. I'm getting drafted high. Odds are that RB isn't having a huge game and could very well fall right in the middle of the 4-7th round selection.

I have no issue skipping out on a senior season but if you committed to playing a season with your team then finish the damn thing off together as a team.

As I said at what point does this stuff end? If we start out a season at 1-3 why play any of the following 9 games? They're meaningless...right? We can only realize a second tier bowl. Some of these players have been blessed with ridiculous god given measurables and their draft stock won't change one bit after their sophomore season versus post junior season. Certainly won't change if they sat out a remaining 9 games plus one bowl.

That's where this stuff will be heading before long though. Why keep playing when you've no chance for a playoff invitation. Also...at some point the playoff invite won't even matter. If they're a surefire top five pick...hell first round pick..those postseason games won't change that. Why risk it for a pesky national championship. How about being drafted altogether? That bowl won't make you drafted or not. Why play at all.
It won't be long until a playoff team has players sitting out. You can laugh at that but it's coming. It only takes that one player to abandon their team who has a playoff in front of them and others will follow.

Ya know...why risk it?

Unless something changes to curtail this lack of participation it will definitely get worse.
When that happens the collective quality of the game deteriorates.

You think that's a good thing? I certainly don't.

 

[Zorich 88]

Couple things here...
I haven't said one thing on this issue as a selfish fan. On the contrary...what bothers me is the selfishness and disregard of the collective efforts from the team. Any team. This isn't an individual sport. Let's say a RB is borderline 1st three rounds/last 4 rounds of the draft. A big game against a decent matchup could prove massive come draft day. What if two of his linemen decide nah...I'll sit this out. It's meaningless. I'm getting drafted high. Odds are that RB isn't having a huge game and could very well fall right in the middle of the 4-7th round selection.

I have no issue skipping out on a senior season but if you committed to playing a season with your team then finish the damn thing off together as a team.

As I said at what point does this stuff end? If we start out a season at 1-3 why play any of the following 9 games? They're meaningless...right? We can only realize a second tier bowl. Some of these players have been blessed with ridiculous god given measurables and their draft stock won't change one bit after their sophomore season versus post junior season. Certainly won't change if they sat out a remaining 9 games plus one bowl.

That's where this stuff will be heading before long though. Why keep playing when you've no chance for a playoff invitation. Also...at some point the playoff invite won't even matter. If they're a surefire top five pick...hell first round pick..those postseason games won't change that. Why risk it for a pesky national championship. How about being drafted altogether? That bowl won't make you drafted or not. Why play at all.
It won't be long until a playoff team has players sitting out. You can laugh at that but it's coming. It only takes that one player to abandon their team who has a playoff in front of them and others will follow.

Ya know...why risk it?

Unless something changes to curtail this lack of participation it will definitely get worse.
When that happens the collective quality of the game deteriorates.

You think that's a good thing? I certainly don't.

You are giving a lot of what if’s. The what if these players are giving is “what if I get hurt like J. Smith did”?

No playoff team will experience this. If ND made the playoffs Hamilton and Williams would be playing.

However, if players opt out of the playoffs, that is their decision. Just like it was their decision to play for that particular team.

Again, I will say, not one ND coach or player has said anything negative about Williams or Hamilton. Why? Because they understand the process. Also, they would probably do the same thing if they were in their cleats.

This is nothing but a game period. It’s not life or death. It’s not war or even the military. My life is not effected by Williams and Hamilton not playing in the Fiesta bowl.

 

[echowaker]

He was not happy with the redshirt because he has never sat the bench. But he is only 17 so he understands it gives his body an extra year to develop more. He graduated HS 6’ now he is 6’2 and up to 190. He will be the field CB. So the redshirt has already paid off.

I get it. Amazing change huh ? I remember my first fall camp at MSU. I was 18, 6'5" and 280. My brother said I looked like the punter compared to the older guys.

 

[Patrirish]

All of Clemson’s players suited up and played, including NFL candidates.

To their credit they seem to have a better understanding of team loyalty and playing to have a season with 10 wins.

Congratulations to Clemson and the Seniors who chose to play !

 

[4-4-3]

This whole thread is a joke. As I have already stated, as simply a fan, players opting to skip a bowl game, does not effect your life at all.

Also, anyone that believes that these type of decisions will “hurt the game” you are 100% wrong.

Even without Hamilton and Williams, this will be a great afternoon of football for my family. Those young men gave me and my family some fun Saturday’s.

I respect their decision to skip the bowl. Everyone on this board should do the same.

Nor does COLLEGE FOOTBALL ITSELF affect too many lives either. At least, not in any meaningful, concrete way.

So then, should we all stop posting on other college football topics as well? Or is only THIS ONE a waste of time to debate? Seems that would be a pretty arbitrary decision.

BTW, I'm still researching this "JOKE" topic and hope to have some POST-ABLE DATA soon. It's going to be a long, viral winter, and there'll be ENDLESS HOURS to sort through this and other DELICATE TOPICS.

 

[Zorich 88]

My point:

This topic specifically has to do with a young mans future. This topic specifically has zero effect on my life. However, people on this board act like these players just broke into their house and stole some beloved family heirloom. These players don’t even know most of of exist. Yet, people on this board are actually angry and upset with 19-21 year old kids that are making a decision they feel is right for them and their family.

For anyone on this board to say players should have credits taken back or players should have to pay the university’s back are absolutely ridiculous. Williams and Hamilton have helped Notre Dane bring in tens of thousands of dollars. Both helped and contributed to ND success the past 2-3 years. Last season they played a huge part in making the playoffs. That earned the University millions of dollars. Not to mention their jersey sales.

People need to get a life! I absolutely love Notre Dame football. However, my life is full with the joy I get from my family. If for some reason ND football Ceased to exist, I would miss it but my life would not skip a beat.

Stop living your life through 19-21 year old kids that are not your children.

 

[echowaker]

All of Clemson’s players suited up and played, including NFL candidates.

To their credit they seem to have a better understanding of team loyalty and playing to have a season with 10 wins.

Congratulations to Clemson and the Seniors who chose to play !

Good for them, their choice. Team loyalty ? Give me a break. You know not what you speak.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Nor does COLLEGE FOOTBALL ITSELF affect too many lives either. At least, not in any meaningful, concrete way.

So then, should we all stop posting on other college football topics as well? Or is only THIS ONE a waste of time to debate? Seems that would be a pretty arbitrary decision.

BTW, I'm still researching this "JOKE" topic and hope to have some POST-ABLE DATA soon. It's going to be a long, viral winter, and there'll be ENDLESS HOURS to sort through this and other DELICATE TOPICS.

The message board is closing at the end of the year so you know. Agree about your comments about the thread being joke.

 

[FightingIrish44]

My point:

This topic specifically has to do with a young mans future. This topic specifically has zero effect on my life. However, people on this board act like these players just broke into their house and stole some beloved family heirloom. These players don’t even know most of of exist. Yet, people on this board are actually angry and upset with 19-21 year old kids that are making a decision they feel is right for them and their family.

For anyone on this board to say players should have credits taken back or players should have to pay the university’s back are absolutely ridiculous. Williams and Hamilton have helped Notre Dane bring in tens of thousands of dollars. Both helped and contributed to ND success the past 2-3 years. Last season they played a huge part in making the playoffs. That earned the University millions of dollars. Not to mention their jersey sales.

People need to get a life! I absolutely love Notre Dame football. However, my life is full with the joy I get from my family. If for some reason ND football Ceased to exist, I would miss it but my life would not skip a beat.

Stop living your life through 19-21 year old kids that are not your children.

Anyone can turn your argument around and say “why don’t YOU stop living your life through a 19-21 year old’s life that is not your child”. Why do YOU care so much? Yeah I get it. You have a kid who plays scholarship football and seem to be taking the conversation personally. Some of us are purely looking through the issue on a philosophical level. Yet you have the nerve to chastise grown men for engaging in an intellectual conversation. Ya know…some adults are interested in debating topics in which they don’t have anything (or very little) at stake.

I can assure you I find your posts more offensive than I do any college athlete opting out of a bowl game. You talk about living through 19-21 year olds? If Notre Dame put an opt out clause in the scholarship agreement that said “we are an academic and values based institution and the requirement of the scholarship is that you play in all games for the academic year….” If ND had the guts to do that alone, and it meant that they crippled their chances of winning a title, I would respect the hell out of that and I say that as a non-ND graduate. I’d be willing to bet you’d be way more upset by that than I would. So who then would be living through 19-21 year old’s who aren’t their child? Why would YOU even care?

 

[Zorich 88]

Anyone can turn your argument around and say “why don’t YOU stop living your life through a 19-21 year old’s life that is not your child”. Why do YOU care so much? Yeah I get it. You have a kid who plays scholarship football and seem to be taking the conversation personally. Some of us are purely looking through the issue on a philosophical level. Yet you have the nerve to chastise grown men for engaging in an intellectual conversation. Ya know…some adults are interested in debating topics in which they don’t have anything (or very little) at stake.

I can assure you I find your posts more offensive than I do any college athlete opting out of a bowl game. You talk about living through 19-21 year olds? If Notre Dame put an opt out clause in the scholarship agreement that said “we are an academic and values based institution and the requirement of the scholarship is that you play in all games for the academic year….” If ND had the guts to do that alone, and it meant that they crippled their chances of winning a title, I would respect the hell out of that and I say that as a non-ND graduate. I’d be willing to bet you’d be way more upset by that than I would. So who then would be living through 19-21 year old’s who aren’t their child? Why would YOU even care?

I have no clue what your babbling on about????

“intellectual conversation”????

Wow! No way is this an intellectual conversation. Sorry to break that to you. We are talking about a game. Nothing on the intellectual level lol.

I 100% take issue with people that want to intake away credit hours or make a player pay back money if the opt out of a bowl.

This is all based on selfish grown men wanting their team to win a simple game. You have zero skin in this GAME. If you or ANYONE are angry, actually angry because Williams and Hamilton are not playing in this bowl, you need to get a life period.

 

[FightingIrish44]

I

“intellectual conversation”????

Wow! No way is this an intellectual conversation. Sorry to break that to you. We are talking about a game. Nothing on the intellectual level lol.

I 100% take issue with people that want to intake away credit hours or make a player pay back money if the opt out of a bowl.

This is all based on selfish grown men wanting their team to win a simple game. You have zero skin in this GAME. If you or ANYONE are angry, actually angry because Williams and Hamilton are not playing in this bowl, you need to get a life period.

This is my point man. I’m not angry and I bet neither are many other people that are against opt outs. I’ve said numerous times that I understand the choice. No hard feelings.

To me an intellectual conversation is engaging in conversation just for the sake of engaging in conversation and learning what another person thinks about something. So because you don’t want to read what people have to say about something, you then attempt to shut down the conversation. My issue is you chastising people for engaging in conversation.

And you still don’t get it. You say its about grown men wanting their team to win a game. I posted my hypothetical about ND putting in an opt put clause in the scholarship agreement. I’m basically saying what’s fair is fair. If ND did that from a VALUES standpoint, and it meant that Notre Dame was going to win less games because of it, then I’m okay with it. I’m trying to say that its NOT about me wanting ND to win games. I’m just looking at it through the perspective of both sides. The same way I’d disagree if a school took away a scholarship from a player that couldn’t play due to medical reasons. What you’re basically saying is why should you care if a school did that…its not your kid. Okay…I’m still allowed to have an opinion on it and to not agree with it.

Happy New Year and Go Irish!

 

[Patrirish]

Good for them, their choice. Team loyalty ? Give me a break. You know not what you speak.

I paraphrased Dabo and some of the Clemson players.

Now I realize that you, as a self proclaimed expert, know so much more about Clemson football than Dabo and the Clemson players, but given the choice of listening to Dabo and his players about Clemson football, versus listening to you, ……well, I’ll go with Dabo and his players.

In addition, my son’s two best friends (twins) attend Clemson, so I have some additional insight.

What are your sources ?

 

[Zorich 88]

I

This is my point man. I’m not angry and I bet neither are many other people that are against opt outs. I’ve said numerous times that I understand the choice. No hard feelings.

To me an intellectual conversation is engaging in conversation just for the sake of engaging in conversation and learning what another person thinks about something. So because you don’t want to read what people have to say about something, you then attempt to shut down the conversation. My issue is you chastising people for engaging in conversation.

And you still don’t get it. You say its about grown men wanting their team to win a game. I posted my hypothetical about ND putting in an opt put clause in the scholarship agreement. I’m basically saying what’s fair is fair. If ND did that from a VALUES standpoint, and it meant that Notre Dame was going to win less games because of it, then I’m okay with it. I’m trying to say that its NOT about me wanting ND to win games. I’m just looking at it through the perspective of both sides. The same way I’d disagree if a school took away a scholarship from a player that couldn’t play due to medical reasons. What you’re basically saying is why should you care if a school did that…its not your kid. Okay…I’m still allowed to have an opinion on it and to not agree with it.

Happy New Year and Go Irish!

ND has what, 80-90 players? 2 opted to sit the bowl? What’s the issue?

Why not address coaches that talk to other teams before their season is over?

 

[FightingIrish44]

ND has what, 80-90 players? 2 opted to sit the bowl? What’s the issue?

Why not address coaches that talk to other teams before their season is over?

Just two players sitting out isn’t a huge issue in of itself. Its more of the principal of you agreed to do something and now you’re not doing it (for a very understandable reason, I don’t fault a player for not wanting to lose out on millions). We don’t know how far this is going to go. Will players opt out of the playoffs or regular season in the future? At what point does the school get to take back some of the leverage?

I think an opt out penalty is a very good middle ground for both sides. That way a player doesn’t have to risk his potential millions and that way the school doesn’t lose out on guys that may not even make an NFL roster. I also think its a good demonstration of what the real world looks like. You have contracts in the professional world and in the NFL and they’re not just going to bow to what the individual wants.

As far as coaches, maybe that’s an issue to be looked at? The early signing day really creates an issue because now the coach is bailing on a playoff eligible team (Kelly) because he has to recruit for the new school. What I will say is that the coaches are professionals who sign contracts. So those terms are negotiated, and since they’re more established, they’re able to just have their new school pay their buyout (lucky them).

 

[Zorich 88]

As I said before, you wanna stop players from opting out? Make the playoffs! How many playoff teams have players opting out? Zero!

These bowls are meaningless compared to the playoff games. Prior to the playoffs, how many players opted out of bowls? I can’t remember any. Winning the Fiesta bowl is great momentum for the players returning next season. However, for players that have a shot at a being a top draft pick, the Fiesta bowl doesn’t mean much. Just the reality of today’s sports.

 

[echowaker]

I

This is my point man. I’m not angry and I bet neither are many other people that are against opt outs. I’ve said numerous times that I understand the choice. No hard feelings.

To me an intellectual conversation is engaging in conversation just for the sake of engaging in conversation and learning what another person thinks about something. So because you don’t want to read what people have to say about something, you then attempt to shut down the conversation. My issue is you chastising people for engaging in conversation.

And you still don’t get it. You say its about grown men wanting their team to win a game. I posted my hypothetical about ND putting in an opt put clause in the scholarship agreement. I’m basically saying what’s fair is fair. If ND did that from a VALUES standpoint, and it meant that Notre Dame was going to win less games because of it, then I’m okay with it. I’m trying to say that its NOT about me wanting ND to win games. I’m just looking at it through the perspective of both sides. The same way I’d disagree if a school took away a scholarship from a player that couldn’t play due to medical reasons. What you’re basically saying is why should you care if a school did that…its not your kid. Okay…I’m still allowed to have an opinion on it and to not agree with it.

Happy New Year and Go Irish!

If ND did that no one would have to worry about football. It would be Ivy League quality after the recruiting goes down the drain.

 

[echowaker]

I paraphrased Dabo and some of the Clemson players.

Now I realize that you, as a self proclaimed expert, know so much more about Clemson football than Dabo and the Clemson players, but given the choice of listening to Dabo and his players about Clemson football, versus listening to you, ……well, I’ll go with Dabo and his players.

In addition, my son’s two best friends (twins) attend Clemson, so I have some additional insigh.

What are your sources ?

I said good for them their choice.

 

[echowaker]

As I said before, you wanna stop players from opting out? Make the playoffs! How many playoff teams have players opting out? Zero!

These bowls are meaningless compared to the playoff games. Prior to the playoffs, how many players opted out of bowls? I can’t remember any. Winning the Fiesta bowl is great momentum for the players returning next season. However, for players that have a shot at a being a top draft pick, the Fiesta bowl doesn’t mean much. Just the reality of today’s sports.

Yep the non playoff games aren't much different than an exhibition game. Nothings on the line. High risk, no reward for potential draft picks.

 

[Patrirish]

ND has what, 80-90 players? 2 opted to sit the bowl? What’s the issue?

Why not address coaches that talk to other teams before their season is over?

That’s your reply, 80-90 players

Why not be realistic, only 22 starters and 9 % are sitting out and both could be considered ND’s best players.

Tell us, how many starters would have to opt out before you objected to the practice ?

 

[Patrirish]

Yep the non playoff games aren't much different than an exhibition game. Nothings on the line. High risk, no reward for potential draft picks.

So now the game is solely to cater to the needs of the potential draft picks.

interesting !

 

[Patrirish]

I said good for them their choice.

No, no, no, you said more than that.

You went on to make fun of Clemson’s “team loyalty”
“team loyalty” is to be admired, not mocked by you

 

[Patrirish]

As I said before, you wanna stop players from opting out? Make the playoffs! How many playoff teams have players opting out? Zero!

These bowls are meaningless compared to the playoff games. Prior to the playoffs, how many players opted out of bowls? I can’t remember any. Winning the Fiesta bowl is great momentum for the players returning next season. However, for players that have a shot at a being a top draft pick, the Fiesta bowl doesn’t mean much. Just the reality of today’s sports.

Meaningless to whom ?

Lunatic fans like you.

How about the players who practice and work and play hard all season long ?

How about the coaches.

The notion that if you don’t win the National Championship, your season is meaningless, is about as dumb and selfish as you can get

 

[FightingIrish44]

If ND did that no one would have to worry about football. It would be Ivy League quality after the recruiting goes down the drain.

Right. And I’m saying that I would commend ND for doing that if they did that. I’m not saying that I would do that, but that it isn’t wrong and I’m using that to demonstrate that my posts aren’t driven by a desire to see ND win.

It will be interesting to see if there are opt outs for the playoffs in the future — maybe it takes 15 years. Will people hold the same beliefs if the players opt out of playoffs then? Because I think you and Zorich 88’s logic holds up even if the player opts out of the playoffs. Ultimately a college playoff game is relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of life. It doesn’t pay the bills or provide generational wealth. The potential NFL player has done enough to help his NCAA team get to that point and he would just be making a business decision at that point.

 

[4-4-3]

My point:

This topic specifically has to do with a young mans future. This topic specifically has zero effect on my life. However, people on this board act like these players just broke into their house and stole some beloved family heirloom. These players don’t even know most of of exist. Yet, people on this board are actually angry and upset with 19-21 year old kids that are making a decision they feel is right for them and their family.

For anyone on this board to say players should have credits taken back or players should have to pay the university’s back are absolutely ridiculous. Williams and Hamilton have helped Notre Dane bring in tens of thousands of dollars. Both helped and contributed to ND success the past 2-3 years. Last season they played a huge part in making the playoffs. That earned the University millions of dollars. Not to mention their jersey sales.

People need to get a life! I absolutely love Notre Dame football. However, my life is full with the joy I get from my family. If for some reason ND football Ceased to exist, I would miss it but my life would not skip a beat.

Stop living your life through 19-21 year old kids that are not your children.

Are you arguing in behalf of protecting potential opt-out paydays simply because you have a kid on scholarship? If so, one could build a case that it's YOU WHO'S LIVING LIFE through 19 to 21 year old's. And it could account as well for your projecting that activity onto others.

As for me -- and I suspect others -- I'm not living through ANY OF THESE KIDS, as my indifference towards their chance at BIG MONEY should make clear. I don't care if they get it or not. I care about a RULES BASED GAME where there's top down control, equity among stakeholders and a reasonably similar product moving ahead.

I see football as entertainment. And message boards as well. But then, I don't have a kid on scholarship. So I don't have an ANTE to UP. Just my point of view.

And do you honestly think that people who take the opposite view from yours in this don't have lives? Please tell me you're joking. This is a discussion, not the all-consuming obsession you describe. No one is tossing toys from prams. Unless that's you I see cocking your arm to fire one.

 

[4-4-3]

ND has what, 80-90 players? 2 opted to sit the bowl? What’s the issue?

Why not address coaches that talk to other teams before their season is over?

Coaches negotiating before the season ends is also an issue and should be addressed.

BY ALL MEANS.

 

[4-4-3]

So now the game is solely to cater to the needs of the potential draft picks.

interesting !

Yes, that's how the argument is beginning to track whether those making it notice or not.

As with many aspects of society, what's emerging is the PREMIER VERSION of the game. Which leads to the usual UPSTAIRS/DOWNSTAIRS bifurcation . . .

The game the elite players play with its own set of more RAREFIED rules, and the everyday players' game.

All aspects of American life now HUNGER for a class system. Egalitarianism is too WEAK A BREW.

And I say this with TRUE REGRET.

 

[4-4-3]

Right. And I’m saying that I would commend ND for doing that if they did that. I’m not saying that I would do that, but that it isn’t wrong and I’m using that to demonstrate that my posts aren’t driven by a desire to see ND win.

It will be interesting to see if there are opt outs for the playoffs in the future — maybe it takes 15 years. Will people hold the same beliefs if the players opt out of playoffs then? Because I think you and Zorich 88’s logic holds up even if the player opts out of the playoffs. Ultimately a college playoff game is relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of life. It doesn’t pay the bills or provide generational wealth. The potential NFL player has done enough to help his NCAA team get to that point and he would just be making a business decision at that point.

You BINGOED your second paragraph. Last two sentences are each a HOLE IN ONE.

 

[BodiTheGreat]

This whole thread is a joke. As I have already stated, as simply a fan, players opting to skip a bowl game, does not effect your life at all.

Also, anyone that believes that these type of decisions will “hurt the game” you are 100% wrong.

Even without Hamilton and Williams, this will be a great afternoon of football for my family. Those young men gave me and my family some fun Saturday’s.

I respect their decision to skip the bowl. Everyone on this board should do the same.

Yay !! Notre Dame will be missing its two best players !! Who wants to watch the two All Americans play anyway?!! Isnt that fantastic !! Hiphip hooray for the quitters !!

*** Kidding aside. I would love to watch Hamilton and Williams play in the game! And what about Pitts allamerican QB sitting out his bowl game? They lost because of that @! College football is going down the toilet quickly !

 

[Zorich 88]

Are you arguing in behalf of protecting potential opt-out paydays simply because you have a kid on scholarship? If so, one could build a case that it's YOU WHO'S LIVING LIFE through 19 to 21 year old's. And it could account as well for your projecting that activity onto others.

As for me -- and I suspect others -- I'm not living through ANY OF THESE KIDS, as my indifference towards their chance at BIG MONEY should make clear. I don't care if they get it or not. I care about a RULES BASED GAME where there's top down control, equity among stakeholders and a reasonably similar product moving ahead.

I see football as entertainment. And message boards as well. But then, I don't have a kid on scholarship. So I don't have an ANTE to UP. Just my point of view.

And do you honestly think that people who take the opposite view from yours in this don't have lives? Please tell me you're joking. This is a discussion, not the all-consuming obsession you describe. No one is tossing toys from prams. Unless that's you I see cocking your arm to fire one.

#1 Why do you have to write a 200 word essay to make your point. I am sure you can condense it down.

But I will address line by line:

Trust me, I do not live my life through my son. I am very proud of my son’s accomplishments on and off the field. He a pretty good young man. However, if he chose to stop playing sports at anytime, I would have supported his decision.

You care about a “rules based game”? College football is filled with rules on and off the field. There will definitely not be a lack of rules. You have nothing to worry about there.

So, this is the third time in your post you bring up my son. I am starting to see a pattern here. How about this, send me your email so I can send you an autograph picture of my son. You are obviously a huge fan and very obsessed with him. Also, don’t worry, WE won’t charge you for the autograph. This one is on the house.

I do not believe everyone that disagrees with me doesn’t have a life. Some people who agree with me don’t have a life either. When it comes to this specific topic, people that get angry over a college kids choice to not play in a game, that specific person, has no life. That player does not even know you exist. That decision does not effect our life at all.

My final point, did anyone watch the Pitt vs MSU bowl game? Pitts QB who opted out the bowl, was in the coaches box cheering his team on. That shows you, not one coach or player had any problem with him opting out. Those directly effected by his decision, still welcome him into the family. Not one coach or player was calling for him to pay back money or give up credits.

 

[4-4-3]

#1 Why do you have to write a 200 word essay to make your point. I am sure you can condense it down.

But I will address line by line:

Trust me, I do not live my life through my son. I am very proud of my son’s accomplishments on and off the field. He a pretty good young man. However, if he chose to stop playing sports at anytime, I would have supported his decision.

You care about a “rules based game”? College football is filled with rules on and off the field. There will definitely not be a lack of rules. You have nothing to worry about there.

So, this is the third time in your post you bring up my son. I am starting to see a pattern here. How about this, send me your email so I can send you an autograph picture of my son. You are obviously a huge fan and very obsessed with him. Also, don’t worry, WE won’t charge you for the autograph. This one is on the house.

I do not believe everyone that disagrees with me doesn’t have a life. Some people who agree with me don’t have a life either. When it comes to this specific topic, people that get angry over a college kids choice to not play in a game, that specific person, has no life. That player does not even know you exist. That decision does not effect our life at all.

My final point, did anyone watch the Pitt vs MSU bowl game? Pitts QB who opted out the bowl, was in the coaches box cheering his team on. That shows you, not one coach or player had any problem with him opting out. Those directly effected by his decision, still welcome him into the family. Not one coach or player was calling for him to pay back money or give up credits.

• I don’t think you’re living through your son. But your sympathies lie with the players and given your son’s involvement, I don’t see that as a coincidence. To me, the PLAYERS FIRST and/or ONLY, is too narrow a view. There’s more to the equation than players.

• Sure, there are plenty of rules in college football. But as the game evolves, more rules – if only different ones – will be called for. MLB and the NFL couldn’t function if they operated as LAISSIZ-FAIRE as CFB. That’s because rules must keep pace with changes in the game.

• But if college higher-ups want to welcome their AA QB’s into the press box as HAIL-FELLOWS-WELL-MET – in other words as ERSTWHILE HEROES who’ve now TAKEN A POWDER – instead of watching them perform in a season-ending bowl game, that’s their choice.

And if they want CFB to devolve further into becoming PRMARILY just a CLEARINGHOUSE for the MOST TALENTED PLAYERS, they can roll with that as well.​

But in doing so, they will vitiate what’s left of the sport as TEAM-FOCUSED while further MARGINALIZING the roles of those – comprising a HUGE MAJORITY -- who aren’t going to play another snap once they leave school.​

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• As a DIVERTING HOBBY, following a TEAM over time is what matters to me, not which player gets drafted by whom for how much money. As you say, they don’t even know who we are. Well, it works the other way, too. I don’t know who they are EITHER and could give a poop.

For me, watching other peoples’ MONETARY SUCCESS TRAJECTORIES is about as BORING as anything I can imagine. But, if that’s what CFB is now featuring, why not just watch CNBC all day or the Kardashians? It’s the same hustle.​