why didnt they foul earlier?
- Thread starter ndhell
- Start date
Not really. Had 6 Basketball players / fans at my home and they all said foul the team that is not as good at shooting foul shots...take your chances....and worst case have 15-12 seconds to shoot a two or a three for OT or to win.
A mistake and we all thought it even before UK inbounded the ball.
This was my feeling also. Given the way the game was called when Kentucky players were close to the basket, it seemed very likely they'd get a foul called if they took it to the basket. Therefore, give that to them while you still have a chance to take the ball down, set up a play, and go for the win or overtime.
Glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. It was so obvious that UK was going to put up points that last possession.
Quick question. That last possession, with around 20 seconds left a UK player was standing with the ball, was this one of their poor FT shooting big with the ball?
It's the timeout Brey used that was the big mistake, they needed that to set up a better final play. UK shoots free throws almost as well as ND does, so fouling is almost a lock two points depending on who is fouled. Maybe Brey was playing the odds. UK did not miss a shot in the last 12:16 of the game, and ND didn't miss many, so maybe he thought the odds were in his favor. They should have played straight up defense and not foul, but he was out of position on that play. One of the few mistakes made in the game.
If you think we should have fouled in that situation, you know absolutely nothing about basketball. No coach would or should foul there. Regarding the timeout, that was not a mistake either. Brey coached them up on what to do with the last shot during the previous timeout. The problem wasn't not having a timeout, the problem was Jerian went to the corner. He should have taken the inbounds pass, moved up court, but more towards the center. That gives you the opportunity to utilize the backboard for both depth perception and the potential of a bank in on a long shot. But I will not blame Jerian, I will give credit to KY, they forced him to the outside, which is what they should do. It was a great game that someone wins and unfortunately someone has to lose. No second guessing or finger pointing required here. ND played great and damn near beat the best team in the country. Hats off to the players and coaching staff for a great season.
This post was edited on 3/29 5:06 PM by DieHard_Irish
This post was edited on 3/29 6:19 PM by DieHard_Irish
This post was edited on 3/29 5:06 PM by DieHard_Irish
This post was edited on 3/29 6:19 PM by DieHard_Irish
I agree with the timeout situation. Should have used his final time-out much wiser than he did. If ND had that final time-out they could have inbounded the ball got it to midcourt and used it. This would have given them a much better look at the basket for the final shot.
Also, quite surprised that there were no doubles on Kentucky's center. He pretty much was able to score at will in the paint. Make him kick it outside. IMHO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, quite surprised that there were no doubles on Kentucky's center. He pretty much was able to score at will in the paint. Make him kick it outside. IMHO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Diehard
Thank you for your last post. People calling to foul at 66-66 know zero about basketball. You don't just give a team the lead. What Brey needed to do was go 2-for-1 (at about 50 seconds to go) and not milk the last full possession ND had, down to Grant jacking a three. Brey had an excellent game plan all night except for that minor detail. Coach Kelly could learn a lot from the best coach on campus- Mike Brey.
Thank you for your last post. People calling to foul at 66-66 know zero about basketball. You don't just give a team the lead. What Brey needed to do was go 2-for-1 (at about 50 seconds to go) and not milk the last full possession ND had, down to Grant jacking a three. Brey had an excellent game plan all night except for that minor detail. Coach Kelly could learn a lot from the best coach on campus- Mike Brey.
I really think you have to play to your teams strength here, which is not on the defensive end of the court for the Irish. To say anyone who feels this way knows absolutely nothing about basketball is such a weak argument.
The best guy on the team to have the ball on that last possession would have been Jackson. This is where having the timeout would have really helped. Kentucky did a great job of forcing Grant to the corner.
It was a great season and I'm not down on Brey. He's done a great job at ND and hopefully this helps recruiting in the future.
The best guy on the team to have the ball on that last possession would have been Jackson. This is where having the timeout would have really helped. Kentucky did a great job of forcing Grant to the corner.
It was a great season and I'm not down on Brey. He's done a great job at ND and hopefully this helps recruiting in the future.
DieHard is right...you don't foul...you've gotten this far in the season, what do you tell your team on the bench, "We are gonna foul because I don't think you guys can stop them one time!" You don't foul...you play. As far as Grant going up the sideline instead of the center of the floor...see who was running with him...a 7 ft dude....how easy do you think it is to get to the center of the floor. And he couldn't pass the ball because he couldn't see anyone. As far as saving the time out, going to half court, calling time out and running another play. That means you have to inbound it again! Guess who will be over the ball? Willy Cauley Stein..good luck with that...not to mention UK switches all screens...
The 4- 5 pt possession on the missed free throw was the dagger....
The 4- 5 pt possession on the missed free throw was the dagger....
I did not think of it during the game. But I do like the idea of fouling them and getting the ball back with 25 or so seconds and down 2 then fouling with 6 seconds left.
"I did not think of it during the game. But I do like the idea of fouling them and getting the ball back with 25 or so seconds and down 2 then fouling with 6 seconds left
IrishJohn...sorry pard, I disagree. Been in that situation plenty of times..never fouled. Never told my teams we are gonna give away the lead and maybe beat them at the end...it is just like going for it on 4th and 1...can't make a yard you don't deserve to win...can't make one defensive stop...you don't deserve to win...just play defense one time you get to play 5 more minutes. Coaches practice that stuff all the time, end of game situations....bet you a beer none of them practice giving up the lead so you can come back at the end of the game...MAKE ONE STOP!
Coaches are in a no-win situation here....if Brey did foul and give up the lead and ND failed to score people would be hammering him for doing exactly what you guys said. What if UK made one ft and missed the second and we didn't get the rebound? That happened earlier in the game and it was huge. Cost ND 4-5 pts on one possession.... Now what are ya saying..."He never should have fouled."
IrishJohn...sorry pard, I disagree. Been in that situation plenty of times..never fouled. Never told my teams we are gonna give away the lead and maybe beat them at the end...it is just like going for it on 4th and 1...can't make a yard you don't deserve to win...can't make one defensive stop...you don't deserve to win...just play defense one time you get to play 5 more minutes. Coaches practice that stuff all the time, end of game situations....bet you a beer none of them practice giving up the lead so you can come back at the end of the game...MAKE ONE STOP!
Coaches are in a no-win situation here....if Brey did foul and give up the lead and ND failed to score people would be hammering him for doing exactly what you guys said. What if UK made one ft and missed the second and we didn't get the rebound? That happened earlier in the game and it was huge. Cost ND 4-5 pts on one possession.... Now what are ya saying..."He never should have fouled."
But ND did foul with 6 seconds left on the clock giving ND little to no time to run a designed play to win or tie. I think I wiould rather have the ball in my hands to decide the game then UK's.
jacksondomer,
I do understand your point, and that is a tough decision to make with no timeouts to think about it. It's damn if you do, damn if you don't.
I do understand your point, and that is a tough decision to make with no timeouts to think about it. It's damn if you do, damn if you don't.
Monday morning quarterbacking this thing says it was the best option. I see both sides of the argument and in most cases I think you play defense and try and stop them. In this case I tell my team to force the ball into the worst FT shooter possible and foul with 15-20 on the clock. I tell my team that you have been the best offense in the nation and I want the ball in our hands to win.
Even before play started on the last possession I had no confidence that they would get a stop.
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Even before play started on the last possession I had no confidence that they would get a stop.
.
IrishJohn...I have been in the situation where I didn't want the opponent to get the last shot so I went into a trapping, scramble defense where I forced the opponents to throw the ball out of double teams, try and pick one off, and maybe give up a quick out of rhythm shot....if ND had tried that I would have understood. But to just let 10 seconds go off the clock and commit a foul... I am not doing that..
"I had no confidence that they would get a stop."
So maybe if you had no confidence, you do foul. Betting a cold one Brey and the boys had a different feeling, That they were gonna get a stop. Beauty of coaching hoops...a million ways to do it. And be tough skinned..because when it doesn't work out you will get hammered from all sides.
So maybe if you had no confidence, you do foul. Betting a cold one Brey and the boys had a different feeling, That they were gonna get a stop. Beauty of coaching hoops...a million ways to do it. And be tough skinned..because when it doesn't work out you will get hammered from all sides.
no smart coach purposely puts an opponent on the line when the game is tied. that's idiotic. Jackson didn't foul on purpose. you act like that was the strategy. try the library for some basketball 101.
nd's three top scorers shot 8 for 31. that s the biggest factor if you ask me.
This post was edited on 3/30 3:55 PM by echowaker
> If you think we should have fouled in that situation,
> you know absolutely nothing about basketball.
Well, I think I do know something about basketball. I know that we didn't foul, we let Kentucky run the clock down and drive for almost certain points, and as a result we were reduced to a wild sprint down the court and a fallaway 3 pointer that didn't even come close to hitting the rim, and we lost. So maybe the savvy strategy that everyone who knows so much about basketball would recommend wasn't so good.
> you know absolutely nothing about basketball.
Well, I think I do know something about basketball. I know that we didn't foul, we let Kentucky run the clock down and drive for almost certain points, and as a result we were reduced to a wild sprint down the court and a fallaway 3 pointer that didn't even come close to hitting the rim, and we lost. So maybe the savvy strategy that everyone who knows so much about basketball would recommend wasn't so good.
Not sure if you guys ever watched the Jimmy Valvano 30 for 30 special on ESPN. If not it is one of the best. Jimmy V had his players foul and they won. His players thought he was nuts but it worked. It's very hard to give points just like that. remember vs Butler it worked out . Sat nite it didn't. Cannot second guess.
JR97...in that 30 for 30 video...did Jimmy V foul with the game tied? I remember that 83 team fouling...but I thought it was when they were behind..
I don't foul in that situation, I would play it exactly as ND did. One thing to think about, Kentucky was also the #1 or 2 defense in the country in some categories including scoring defense and defensive efficiency I believe. Not sure I want to give them the lead and try to score from behind.
Jackson. Jimmy V did tell his players to foul in a tie game vs UVA. His players thought he was nuts . I am not sure about fouling there. The one thing I did not like on the last possession was Grant on Harrison. I think DJ should have been on him. Harrison was going to take the last shot and we did not have our best defender on him. The game was not lost on that lost possession . As sick as I have felt because of this game I have a new found respect for this program . I can live with the same feeling for the next 10 years. IMO this team gets back to this game next season.
