I'm in the camp of BVG has to go now. Bc I fear the long lasting damage this dumpster fire BVG has created will do to this program. We have to at least get solid on D . That's a minimum. The impact of losing Jaylon Smith coupled with the absurdity of this BVG defense is going to play itself out in embarrassment on the field and real recruiting losses if it's not stopped now. It can get worse.
When is the Kool-Aid Crowd Coming
- Thread starter Sarah_Plain_And_Tall
- Start date
yes, that is a factor; recruiting will likely suffer; but how much? defensively it is already abysmal.
I'm not sure it's abysmal. You don't need high 4 stars to field an average / adequate defense. We're not even close to average. Got to first get to average. Concerned that the DT from VA will bail and Mustifers bro will decline the opportunity to serve in the BVG dumpster fire. Others will not come and other current commits will decomitt . It's inevitable unless course with this D changes quickly. Actually thought this yr s 17 class on D was looking pretty good . Not great and 18 had great potential. Felt we were on the verge now I fear regression is headed our way primarily due to the fatal flaw in this HC in his intransigence.
the talent level is not satisfactory.
But the absence of the pom pom mean girls is disconcerting! The silence is deafening.
Are they plotting some sort of plot ? meeting to find a sort of mind control device?
(oh, wait, I have them all on ignore! carry on)
But the absence of the pom pom mean girls is disconcerting! The silence is deafening.
Are they plotting some sort of plot ? meeting to find a sort of mind control device?
(oh, wait, I have them all on ignore! carry on)
They are cockroaches- when one comes out of basement the others will not be far behind!
They're waiting for instructions from Dear Leader and what narrative ( execuse ) to run with. Prediction it will be that team is young and inexperienced and more time is needed. Next yr will be the yr..
I'm good with that only 6 short yrs from now . I'll follow every recruiting development closely till then. We're on the 13 yr plan..
So how does someone new install a different defensive scheme when the season has already begun?
Changes are needed, everyone can see that. However , getting rid of the defensive coach at this point is a bad idea. That should have happened at the end of last season. Still, Kelly is the head coach and he can and should step in and take charge. I know his side of expertise is offense. But, he can sit with BVG and the other defensive coaches and simply state what we all know. Your defensive scheme or whatever you want yo call it isn't working. Kelly should then get BVG to simplify then scheme so players know what their assignments should be. It can be done. I think one that can be done is to commit to stopping the run. Make teams one dimensional. Your chances of winning go up dramatically. Texas won and if you look at the stats they really tell the story. Almost a perfect balance between yards on the ground and through the air. When any team can do that, you usually win. So we know the defense is going to be an issue all year. Only one game played but it's obvious. The key will be to stop giving up big chunk plays and stop each teams run game. The Irish will have to score 30 plus a game on average if they want to win, especially against the better teams. It won't be easy but if they can keep the offense rolling and the defense can just do enough, then the season can still be a good one. If the defense continues to play like it did Sunday, then a 5 or 6 loss season is very possible for ND.
you can't make chicken salad out o-c feathers now
but the guy that gathered the feathers is still responsible for the circumstances.
wait till off season but - do not delay so to adversly affect recruits - no gap
but the guy that gathered the feathers is still responsible for the circumstances.
wait till off season but - do not delay so to adversly affect recruits - no gap
I'm so sick of hearing this specious, over used and trite comeback..."well who would you get to replace him?" Stupid. NOT our job! Every team at this level can find another HC, but we can't? Please....
The problem is and will always be Coach 8 & 4. He is a D2 coach. He had some clever gimmicks that worked at that level, but nothing he did there translates at a higher level. The skill sets here, of the athletes, over come the gimmick. From his first game on, his teams were not prepared, executed poorly, chose game plans and play calling that few understood. This will continue, he is incapable to adjust. It is what it is, he is what he is - get over it!
We will begin to enter a program death spiral. Fans loose confidence, players will slowly question to themselves what and why they do things and the recruits will sense the wheels are starting to fall off and they will begin to shy away. This happened to Weis. Swarbrick will need to evaluate and start planning for the end game now. If he waits, and is not prepared for this to end, (at least when he finally realizes it's time to pull the plug) the new staff and program building will become extremely difficult and develop haphazardly to get up to a successful level.
I have been and will continue to be a Coach 8 & 4 critic. My hope has been since last year that Kizer's unique talents will carry a badly managed team and game plan. Didn't realize the defense is so poorly prepared. This will be a long season, and we'll win a game or 2 we shouldn't and loose several we should have won. That's just what that this program has been for the last 6 years. Meh... Is 8 & 4 now what we'll hope for?
Team has historically come out unprepared for games particularly big ones. Delay of game penalties on first series . Burning time outs early in 1st quarter bc can't get the play in on time. That's been seen game after game. Van Gorder serves at pleasure of kelly. So does Longo. The buddy system is not serving the program. Kelly needs to demand at least that the D system be greatly simplified . Van Gorder collects a big fact pay check from ND. He's not a volunteer. We have a lot freshman playing this yr on D . We can't continue to be beholden to Van Gorder s theories when 2 yrs of results have been so poor. The players deserve better.
8-4 @ ND is not bad
but the issue is the team is not playing well fundamentally.
and
games seem too often lost by poor decisions made in game by the coaching staff.
if you lose because the other team is just plain better, well you did your best. but if you chronically shoot yourself in the foot, that is problematic. That is cause for change: A-Z.
but the issue is the team is not playing well fundamentally.
and
games seem too often lost by poor decisions made in game by the coaching staff.
if you lose because the other team is just plain better, well you did your best. but if you chronically shoot yourself in the foot, that is problematic. That is cause for change: A-Z.
ND has not fielded a Championship caliber roster since 1993. A Championship roster is a roster loaded with high round draft picks on both sides of the football. This drought 94-Present has encompassed Holtz, Davie, Willingham, Weis and Kelly.
Holtz was a National Championship Coach, Kelly won 2 Titles at GVS and was National COY x 2 and has put up 2 undefeated seasons. Davie was the creator of the A&M Wrecking Crew defense, Willingham won at Stanford including a Pac 12 Title in 99. Weis won 3 SB rings as an OC for Belichick.
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe...just maybe coaching is not the issue?
Holtz was a National Championship Coach, Kelly won 2 Titles at GVS and was National COY x 2 and has put up 2 undefeated seasons. Davie was the creator of the A&M Wrecking Crew defense, Willingham won at Stanford including a Pac 12 Title in 99. Weis won 3 SB rings as an OC for Belichick.
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe...just maybe coaching is not the issue?
Yes, and you are wrong. Do you think for a millisecond that this team, if coached by Saban or Meyer or Harbaugh wouldn't be better? If you say yes, then there must be others we are not aware of or we haven't thought of who could as well. By the way Holtz was a complete coach. If the defense was bad one week, he switched from offense to defense to special teams if needed. Coach 8 & 4 can't even manage or coach the unit he was brought here to do. Just bad teaching skills, management skills and preparation skills. Time for next one in.
(^^ up 2) logically said, except, we witness the games! we see poor fundamentals and a team that has been poorly concieved and recruited. That is not on the admissions dept.
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No, it's called bad football program management. Poor decisions, repeated and repeated.
don't want to pile on the pom pom/ kool aid crowd any longer
most (not all) just want the same thing as the critics, that is the best for the young men who play for ND.
The best facilities, education assistance and absolutely the best coaching staff possible.
I realize there is a segment more allied to the HC than ND, but aside from that segment it is time to get everyone on the same page. We have discovered that things were not as good as the hype, but they also are not as bad as the last game. Every problem has a solution.
most (not all) just want the same thing as the critics, that is the best for the young men who play for ND.
The best facilities, education assistance and absolutely the best coaching staff possible.
I realize there is a segment more allied to the HC than ND, but aside from that segment it is time to get everyone on the same page. We have discovered that things were not as good as the hype, but they also are not as bad as the last game. Every problem has a solution.
Once you enter a program's death spiral, it's over and it requires a re-calibration of purpose. Although we are not at that stage, sometime this year we very well may be and Swarbrick and the people administrating the program need to be prepared to plan accordingly...emotionally, psychologically and structurally.
"don't ever break up with "xxxxx", because no one else could ever love you"
huh? fear based and no way to function!
And you're still dumber than a load of bricks. Can't believe you're an alum. How did you get in or for that matter stay in? Or how much money did it cost you...Stupid is...
Yeah, I realize it's not your job nor mine. But quite frankly, I'm sick of hearing from those like you that a change should be made yet you people offer no alternative. You make it sound so simple to get someone else but it isn't.
You should be able to at least give me ONE legitimate name that would consider coaching ND. You do follow other teams, right? So, you should know of someone out there that's qualified.
The problem is, there aren't too many people other than those named Saban or Meyer that could do much better. So, ND would make a change only to continue going between 8-4 and 10-2. What would that accomplish?
Your response is still specious and trite. Yes, there are coaches out there. I haven't talked to their agents, but I'm hoping in the course of the season, when conversations happen with the agents (and they are happening all the time) and those people associated directly or now indirectly with the program, Swarbrick discusses possible future candidates. Once a death spiral begins, it can spin out of control. Quickly. My comments have been - be prepared. If 8 & 4 most years satisfies you, then you got it.
Says the guy masquerading as an ND fan and alum on a ND chat board. Do you honestly think you're fooling anyone? Get a life.
Who is stupid? Who keeps referring to Kelly as "Coach 8 & 4" even though Kelly wins 9 games a year? You can't even grasp basic math.
I don't know or care where the guy went to get his education but he makes a helluva lot more sense than you do. And you simply go to character assassination as your first contradicting retort?
That's pretty lame and hopefully not the best a ND education can come up with!
We have championship talent on offense, but not defense. We have been wiffing on may great D recruits. I have to believe that some of that is because of poor coaching choices on defense for quite a while. There are teams with a lot less talent than ND on defense that are much better. You get a good coach on defense and the players will come. Will we ever have the level of an Alabama or Ohio State? Probably not, but that comes to admissions and no relegating ourselves to become a football factory like those schools you mention. So while we won't become dynasty football programs there's no reason we cannot build a championship team.
Also, if Weis, Willingham, and Davie were such good coaches, why haven't they had success anywhere else?
I suspect that he's actually the board's resident Indiana alum who likes to take pot shots at ND under the cover of being an ND grad.
The 94, 95 and 96 teams were coached by LOU HOLTZ!!!!!! Who was as talented and accomplished a football coach as Meyer, Saban and Harbaugh, He went 6-5-1, 9-3 and 8-3. That's 22-11-1. Which is now the new normal. Meyer did not want the job because he did not feel he could win at the rate he was winning at OSU or at the rate he won at UF, It shouldn't be this hard to figure out. The best coaches in the country could win 9 or 10. But nobody is winning a Championship. Because anyone with designs on winning a TItle, is not coming to ND.
You are forgetting a lot of history and - Monk and Wadsworth (the 2 principal reasons we are at this stage even today) - that changed the entire program and really weighted down the complete atmosphere of the football program that lead to Holtz's leaving.
Holtz has been gone 20 years. There has been ample time to correct any perceived mistakes which they may have made. Stop the stupidity.
Chris Peterson at UW
Heard rumors is dream job is ND (like Holtz) when he was at BSU. Have to see how UW does this yrear. He took over the Sarkesian mess 3 years ago i think.
If I were Swarbick, I'd be talking to Mike Sanford about subtly introducing the idea to Peterson and see what he thinks. Hire Peterson, keep sanford as OC, hire Wilcox as DC and have Coach P and the gang work their magic at ND. They know how to win regardless of talent level.
I have never heard any rumors that Peterson was interested in coaching at ND. I think he's a good coach, but I don't know that he would be a step up from Kelly. Can you tell us where you heard this?
Being an ND fan for over 70 years, I have really been spoiled.
ND football always stood for perfection. Yes, even some of our great coaches had bad seasons, lost a big game, and had off
days , but they were few and far between.
While, Certainly, Rockne was somewhat before my time,
His legend was alive and well as I was growing up.The other legends , Gipp, the Four Horsemen, Etc were also part of the ND football mystique.
Frank Leahy was as close to perfection as as any coach can be. What Leahy insisted upon was discipline and fundamental
Perfection in every aspect of the game.
Ara, Dan Devine , and Lou were not only exceptionally
Good coaches, but were also perfectionists, and turned out
Well balanced , disciplined, soundly fundamental teams.
They were also great planners, made adjustments, and
Were great game day coaches.
Those qualities have been missing ever since Lou walked the sidelines.
Those qualities are also what one sees at Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, as well as a lot of other competitive schools.
Those qualities are also ones that I have not seen at ND for a very, very, long time.
ND football always stood for perfection. Yes, even some of our great coaches had bad seasons, lost a big game, and had off
days , but they were few and far between.
While, Certainly, Rockne was somewhat before my time,
His legend was alive and well as I was growing up.The other legends , Gipp, the Four Horsemen, Etc were also part of the ND football mystique.
Frank Leahy was as close to perfection as as any coach can be. What Leahy insisted upon was discipline and fundamental
Perfection in every aspect of the game.
Ara, Dan Devine , and Lou were not only exceptionally
Good coaches, but were also perfectionists, and turned out
Well balanced , disciplined, soundly fundamental teams.
They were also great planners, made adjustments, and
Were great game day coaches.
Those qualities have been missing ever since Lou walked the sidelines.
Those qualities are also what one sees at Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, as well as a lot of other competitive schools.
Those qualities are also ones that I have not seen at ND for a very, very, long time.
interview on local news after BSU was getting all the attention for beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl all those years ago.
remember also that there was a significant contingent of USC followers who wanted Peterson there. Beachcardinal may have more on this. Peterson and family did not want to live in LA.
peterson has a child with health issues and Seattle is probably one of the 3-5 best cities in the country to live in for the child's care. I don't know what the differences in medical care are when comparing South Bend to Boise, but I'm sure Chicago would be on par with Seattle.
