What would Father Hesburgh have done?
- Thread starter 47WimanND
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I think of "snowflake" being primarily a reference to fragility, or maybe over-fragility. Maybe 30 years ago we might have used the term "pansy". Anyone who feels less safe or less secure because Mike Pence is speaking on campus is either overly fragile, overly dramatic, or some combination of both. The idea of feeling endangered by, or afraid of, SPEECH that indicates feelings contrary to yours is a pretty new phenomenon, and it appears to have its roots in academia. Now, instead of me disagreeing with the way you enunciate your feelings, or just ignoring you, I feel emboldened to impair your ability to voice those feelings within ear shot of me.
Nobody "mans up" or "toughs it out" anymore, and it seems like those behaviors are not even encouraged in academia. Instead of helping people overcome mental weakness (separating that from any kind of mental disorder), we now celebrate it.
What would Father Hesburgh do? He would be quick to recognize the right of any student to have an opposing opinion and to voice that opinion within reasonable parameters. He would also to be quick to warn any applicable students that their classmates have rights also, and one of those is to live and go to school on this campus free of intentional distraction and harassment. He would remind students that ND has a long history of welcoming figures from across the wide political spectrum, and treating them respectfully and engaging them in thoughtful discussion, no matter how much we agree or disagree with them, and we intend to continue that behavior mode. As to any student that told Father Hesburgh that he or she felt less safe because of a certain speaker being on campus, he would suggest staying in the safe sanctity of your dorm room until the coast was clear. But he'd think you were a pansy. He was a pretty tough cookie.
Curious as to exactly how many ND students have stated that they would feel unsafe with Pence visiting. How many individuals have stated this? One? Two? I doubt there are many more than that.
I understand the desire to lump everyone who wants to protest in with these people who claim they will feel afraid. But the "snowflakes" who would be afraid of Pence (or Obama) stepping onto campus are less than 1% of protesters.
There is no shortage of injustice and real life victims around the world, lots of very legitimate reasons for sincere protest. I just don't get this idea of college kids protesting people speaking on their campus, people whose views they disagree with. If you don't like my views, ignore them, counter them, debunk them, refute them. But the idea that you should be able to keep me from expressing them is just the rantings of a cowardly petulant child.
I don't think the ND students who are protesting are looking to stop Pence from speaking. Notre Dame isn't Cal.
Rather, they are using his appearance to voice their concerns about the direction of the nation. It is a smart move from their perspective. The same thing students (and non students) did when Obama came to speak.
Then I have no issue with it, as long as its done in a manner which is respectful to the rest of the student body and to the traditions of the University. And one of those traditions is treating people with respect.
Call me all the names you d like. Doesn't change the fact that you completely didn't get the point.
Believe it or not, I'm not losing any sleep over not "getting" one of your posts, echo. Most of them are about how much smarter and more knowledgeable you are than everyone else here. As for name calling, I don't think I need many other names for you. Arrogant jackass suits you perfectly.
Actually, your statement about the poor and needy is completely wrong. Nothing is more important to the poor and needy than being provided the tools to succeed on their own and obtain a better life where they can depend on themselves and not the government. Dems prefer the status quo.
Lol, a lib calling out conservatives for name calling. Classic.
A post that denounces name calling w/ name calling? Now how educated does that sound?
Nocalirish = obnoxious petulant child at his parents' computer
What name calling did I do? I called Kennedy's actions at Chappaquidick cowardly and possible criminal, so if that is what you were referring to, so be it. I said that I think that Pence is a misogynist. Do you consider that name calling?
By the way, you can't lump all Liberals as being the same, just as I can't lump all Conservatives together. Both camps have members who are intelligent and members who are ignorant. Both camps have members who like to talk before they think and both have members that think before they talk.
I don't hate all Conservatives and make a point in maintaining friendships with my Conservative friends so that I can continue our discussions and debates. So, Francade...please educate me as to what name calling I engaged in.
I don't know what Dems you have been talking to but I don't know of any Dems that want to maintain the status quo. The Dems and the Rs may have different ideas as to how to address poverty but I don't know of anyone that wants to keep people mired in poverty.
The Dems want tax money for educating the poor and treating the sick. The Reps want tax cuts for the rich and no money for education or medical.
I wasn't talking to you, duck. But I do recall you calling people that used the term "snowflake" redneck, white trash, mouth breathers, lacking in wit & intelligence. And then condescendingly questioned whether I attended ND. Does that count?
One of the problems we have coming from both ends of the political spectrum is that each paints the other with two broad of a brush. What you say is certainly accurate as to some Dems and some Rs but not all of them.
The word "simpleton" is the first thing that comes to mind.
My quote was
"We're all familiar with the names that can't be uttered anymore but is snowflake any better than calling someone a redneck or white trash or a mouth breather? How does name calling advance your argument?"
I wasn't calling anyone a redneck or white trash, etc. I was equating them. As to be condescending, I was and I apologize for that.
I really don;t like how polarizing the extremes of politics have made our political discourse, the vast majority just want to get along with their lives, I reject both sides now, the left a little more because of that ideologies' simply terrible economics. Which is my opinion. But I wanted to post something on ROI of colleges in the USA, more than half of Universities and a to a slightly higher degree majors have a negative ROI:
http://www.economist.com/news/unite...-return-higher-education-would-be-much-better
http://www.economist.com/news/unite...-return-higher-education-would-be-much-better
Very nice to see some work on this subject. Most noteworthy to me was the comment about the local economy. Many schools attract students wanting to stay in the area and are better known in the region so this is a critical point for the ROI.
IMHO, if ROI were a key element in college choice, schools like ND would cease to exist. The college choice is about much more than ROI. It's just one of many factors, more important to some than it is to others.
Ok, duck. You're equating calling someone a snowflake for overreacting to a speaker at a college to calling those people that think this way white trash, redneck mouth breathers. Got it.
Echo, u need some new material. The whole I'm smarter than you thing has run its course.
Echo, u need some new material. The whole I'm smarter than you thing has run its course.
francade...name calling is name calling. If it isn't right for one side, its not right for the other. If a person can't respect another's opinions, whether they are on politics, religion, or sports, they should just keep to themselves. It is one thing to disagree with someone (and I disagree with a lot of people) and another thing to insult someone just because they don't agree with you. One involves intelligent discourse and the other involves ignorance and disrespect.
Forgive me if your holier than thou attitude falls on my deaf ears, duck. You threw insults around in this thread as much as any. Once again, the liberal gets to tell the conservative what can be said & not said. Maybe you should question anyone that disagrees w/ you whether they were smart or good enough to attend ND again. That wasn't insulting at all. Practice what you preach, oh enlightened one.
francade...I withdraw my prior apology for being condescending. You, in fact, could never have attended ND. You have no apparent ability to understand anyone else's opinion and/or argument. You make statements without support. You are the type of person that makes people dislike Conservatives. There are plenty of Conservatives that I like and/or respect but you are not one of them. By the way, please note that I made this argument without having to use any infantile name-calling...just one more difference between you and I.
a lot of smugness and group think from our left wing friends
This perfectly describes what this is all about. I'd only add that the colleges, who gleefully collect the absorbent tuition to enable and sustain professors who spew and indoctrinate gullible students with their socialist ideas and values, are just as responsible as the parents for failing to properly prepare graduates to face and, most importantly, survive in the world of reality they will soon be thrust into. If it wasn't so sad, colleges providing students with a "safe space" and time off to somehow deal with the Trump victory should have easily won "joke of the year" award. I'm sure in the business world such a need would have been easily accommodated by showing the requester the door and a warning not to let it hit them on the way out - for good!
Lol, Dems have had control of the inner cities for decades with zero improvement. Oops...
