As a proud atheist, I would say that it is you who believe in nothing although you call it god.
What would Father Hesburgh have done?
- Thread starter 47WimanND
- Start date
As a proud atheist, I would say that it is you who believe in nothing although you call it god.
When I went to ND over 20 years ago, we had a conservative student body overall. I remember they held a mock 1992 presidential election among the students. George Bush won by a wide margin. That was the year Clinton won the real election. Considering college students are usually more liberal than the general population, that shows how conservative the ND student body was.
I don't know the current political makeup of the student body, but I imagine it's still pretty conservative overall. So this group protesting Pence is probably in the minority.
I don't know the current political makeup of the student body, but I imagine it's still pretty conservative overall. So this group protesting Pence is probably in the minority.
I would say you are spot on about majority are conservative. It isn't the protests but the snowflakes that say they aren't safe. Time to grow up.
I did not like Obama at all, but I never threw a garbage can into a Starbucks window because I didn't like him.
That has nothing to do with saying that Trump or Pence is "not my (Vice) President".
The poster I was referring to said that when students are saying "not my President" or "not my Vice President", they are trying to silence Pence from speaking. I'm asking if that same reasoning applied for all of the Presidents who claimed that Obama was not their President - were you upset that those people were trying to silence Obama?
Duck, You are certainly free to believe or not believe ! Life is like a blick of an eye in terms of Eternity !
I always had a very strong faith, and I look forward to Erernal life. I often reflect on my War experiences,
and marvel that I survived !
Without getting into too many details, When I landed at Inchon and on the March to capture the City of Seoul, I saw North Korean tanks hit from the air by napalm. I always wondered what went through the minds of those enemy tank crews in the few seconds of life that they had left before they sufficated and burned to ashes ?
Since, I was one of 35 men who survived the Battle of rhe Chosin Reservoir from a company
( most of our companies had equal casualties ) of roughly 300 men. All the others were killed or badly
wounded or frost bitten.
I know that my faith in the Lady on the Dome and my mothers prayers to St. Joseph were answered.
As I get nearer to death, I also pray and have faith that Our Lady will be with me on my final journey !
Just as those NK tankers, I'll never know what will go through your mind, but I never saw an
Atheist when death was very close !
Just my thoughts on that topic.
As far as your last post : Yes, I did have a large loving extended family, but , while my immediate family did love me, there were many problems that really made life a lot tougher. I wrote a book about it and did get some good reviews in a few NY magazines, and I was also invited to speak at the local historical society,
but since I now live in Arizona, I had to decline.
Growing up, my immigrant Italian ancestors were of very modest means, so they certainly were in no position to help anyone financialy. Life was a day to day struggle, but they were full of love and kindness, and had a strong faith and love of God.
The judges and Lawyers in my family were also very poor and worked their way through college
just as I did ( working construction, waiting tables, bar tending, and the Korean War GI bill.
One of the " Younger " attorneys in my family is my daughter , the other two are children of my cousins.
Great posting with you
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I really think it bothers some of us (including me) a lot more than President Trump. I doubt if attending Notre Dame's anything is high on his bucket list. JMHRMO.
You might enjoy seeing me go to ND or any college and advising them to drop out but that is not my role-- it's their parents and guidance counselor plus I am not advocating avoid college-- I am advocating that there is no financial benefit to attending. Even the education provided is suspect today compared to years ago and as John Gault said, an internship can be the better route.
I think Truman was the last President.
College education = / is to career politician as political outsider/ businessperson is to a breath of fresh air and ability to get things done
The studies show there is a financial benefit.
Thank you for confirming that the last President to not attend college was elected in 1948.
Who is their VP then? It sure looks like these students are trying to prevent him from speaking. Why else for the protest? We all know leftists don't want people to speak if they don't agree with their ideals.
I didn't complain about Obama coming to speak at ND eight years ago. I wanted to have an open mind and hear what he had to say. Afterwards, like with this Pence situation, is the time to respond in a non-violent way. I'm praying ND students are better than Berkeley students. But, some of what I was talking about earlier is predicting that some will take this to an ugly next level. I hope not though.
Did you equally bitch when Hannity said Obama was not his president?
The "not my president" thing is stupid no matter who says it, but it doesn't portend some type of violent action. You're overreacting.
I've always believed that after the electoral college completes it's responsibility; you pull up your big boy underwear and big boy pants and move on from there. You enjoy a few Presidents and suffer through most but you endure to the end. There is no reset button like Hillary used with Russia. They are all OUR President of the United States of America. The Democrats need to figure out why they lost the election and so many lifer Democrats like myself. They aren't impressing the voters by acting like children who didn't get their way. Elections are won by convincing Independents and moderates that their candidate and platform is best for the electorate. Hillary lose the election because she failed to nail down WI, MI, OH, and PA. You can't assume anything in politics! Politics is the only place where confidence isn't sexy. JM2CW.
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As far as the " Is college worth the money " , I think I stated my position clearly in another post.
Yes it is, and no it is not !
It is a hugh outlay of money and valuable time. The administration and professors are predominately
"Liberal " , and their views do not represent the views of ( as evident by the divide political and even morally ) at least 1/2 of the families sacrificing to send their children to college.
In short, it is for the most part an indoctrination in " Liberalism " . I have paid dearly to educate my children, but I made absolutely certain that each of them followed a couse of study that led to a professional career. My three children all have very successful and professional careers. So yes, my ROI paid off. I also insisted that my children work both during their schooling and especially their Summer breaks.
Failure and quitting , when things got tough, where not allowed.
When my children attended college for some reason, their schools were for the most part non political,
so I have two Conservatives and one Who leans Liberal, but not radical Liberal.
So my view is this, A professional education should be a good ROI. A " Fresh Air course " " Liberal "
education to " Find ones self " ,not on my dime !
" Spring Break " , My kids knew better, I would have " Kicked their butts until their noses blead "
It was always Easter Break and family time in my household.
Yes it is, and no it is not !
It is a hugh outlay of money and valuable time. The administration and professors are predominately
"Liberal " , and their views do not represent the views of ( as evident by the divide political and even morally ) at least 1/2 of the families sacrificing to send their children to college.
In short, it is for the most part an indoctrination in " Liberalism " . I have paid dearly to educate my children, but I made absolutely certain that each of them followed a couse of study that led to a professional career. My three children all have very successful and professional careers. So yes, my ROI paid off. I also insisted that my children work both during their schooling and especially their Summer breaks.
Failure and quitting , when things got tough, where not allowed.
When my children attended college for some reason, their schools were for the most part non political,
so I have two Conservatives and one Who leans Liberal, but not radical Liberal.
So my view is this, A professional education should be a good ROI. A " Fresh Air course " " Liberal "
education to " Find ones self " ,not on my dime !
" Spring Break " , My kids knew better, I would have " Kicked their butts until their noses blead "
It was always Easter Break and family time in my household.
I think the idea that college is a four-year indoctrination into liberal brainwashing is a suggestion put forward by the tin-foil hat brigade.
I'd like to know what they don't feel about? Is Pence really a scary man?
NDE,
In that case, I'll wear my tin foil hat proudly! I look at the world through my own eyes and make my own decision based upon what I see. It is obvious that you see things differently !
I respect your views and know you better that to take the " Tin Foil hat " thing personally !
If you ever get out here, I'de love to have that beer with you , and then we call really " Go at it in a friendly
manner !
rgc - I do appreciate and respect your opinion, even if I disagree with it a lot. I actually think you and I would have more in common than we think, if we were to actually meet and talk about things.
I don't think there's a "liberal" or "conservative" way to teach the vast majority of subjects - engineering, math, business, science, art, nursing, etc. Humanities may - to some extent (but not all - my history classes, for example, didn't portray some individuals more positively or negatively than what I sense is mainstream) - but I found that those classes didn't indoctrinate me with particular facts or force me to think a particular way, but rather, allowed me to think critically and consider how I approached certain aspects of philosophy, literature, theology, history, etc., in a way that eventually felt "correct".
I think if most mainstream conservatives sat through history, philosophy, English, etc., classes taught today, they generally would be fine with them.
I did. You said "If that is his career choice we (or should I say he) are going to have a problem." I was merely stating that you shouldn't say he. You could have said "If that is his career choice, we are (or should I say he is) going to have a problem." Grammar is important.
Do you have any facts to support this statement or are you relying on something you heard on Fox News or read on Breitbart?
rgc7, thank you for your service in Korea. I would love to read your book someday and, if you are interested, I'll let you read mine. It might be interesting to see each other's point of view. Congrats to your daughter on becoming a lawyer. I hope she enjoys her legal career as much as I have enjoyed mine. The law biz has changed a lot in the past 30+ years.
NDE,
Relative to time, Your education is much closer to current times than mine. I don't know what year you
graduated, but I don't think that it was close to mine in 1960.
Lord, would I love to be able to go back to a great university and take those courses that you mentioned. It would really be interesting to see how much I would agree or disagree with ? Based upon what I see, I would probable not agree with too much ? Had I been born into wealth, I think that I would have been a " Professional student."
I love to study for the sake of studying in just about all subjects. It is very humbling !
Too bad you, I, and a few others on this board could not have a series of debates , each one with a narrow focus, on a number a number of issues, but only one issue at a time, an actual exchange of ideas
to seek solutions to current domestic probblems ?
Would be great fun !
Happy Easter !
Thanks Duck,
My daughter has now been pratcing for about 25 years now, wow , how time flies ! My cousin is coming out to visit us for a few weeks after Easter. He is now a retired Judge and is one year my junior.
We were practually brought up together and are more like brothers than cousins.
Exchanging books would be interesting, but Posting books on the Board would ,I think , be against the rules. I started our writing the book strictly for the family and it goes into detail about growing up during
the Great Depression in an immigrant neighborhood on the streets of NY. There were some really "colorful"
characters in my family, and a number of then did not walk the " Straight and Narrow " and paid dearly
for it. I end it with my coming home from Korea.
Unfortunately, I wrote the book for my large extended family so I had to mention everyone in the book, and that took away some of the flow that I would have liked. In spite of that, most of the feed back that I have gotten was quite positive. One of my Lawyer friends , who was also a History teachers before his law career felt that my book should be required reading for all history classes that study that period of history ? It also a true narative without any embellishment and it is completely factual.
If I were 20 or so years younger, I would write it over and really develop the major characters, but I will leave that to other people if they have the inclination to " Tackle " the task. ?
What is your book about ?
You say you are a Lawyer ? Now I know why you .........,, so much ! only kidding ! If I criticise the legal
profession too much , I will have half of my family angry with me.
There are only two types of people that love to use the word snowflake? I beg to differ. I'm not old or crotchety, nor am I an "alt-righter". So quest is full of shit. Again. You're a snowflake and so are the softies protesting pence. Don't fight it. Embrace your snowflakedness.
francade...why the need for name calling at all? We're all familiar with the names that can't be uttered anymore but is snowflake any better than calling someone a redneck or white trash or a mouth breather? How does name calling advance your argument? I can argue with both liberals and conservatives and enjoy those arguments. What I don't do is to try and make a point by demeaning and/or denigrating the other person by calling them names. Quite frankly it is silly and shows a lack of both wit and intelligence.
Ok, duck, now I get it. If I call someone a snowflake because I think they're overreacting by saying that they "don't feel safe" about a speaker at their university, I'm silly and lacking in wit & intelligence, (name calling at its best, btw), but it's ok for you snowflakes to call me stupid. I got it now. What's good for the goose, should be good for the gander, shouldn't it? And just ftr, I'd rather be called a snowflake than the names you mentioned, but that's just me. You liberals get to tell everybody what they're doing or saying wrong but never turn that around on yourselves. I wonder if pence is offended by what some students have said about him. Does that count as name calling? I would think so. Liberals live in a double standard world. It goes like this, you tell us not to call people names while you call us redneck, white trash, mouth breather, silly, lacking in wit and intelligence. Got it.
If you're not at least going to try and understand someone else's post and/or opinion, why even bother?
Proper use of grammar? You're going the grammatical route, echo? The know it all that knows nothing but tells us how much more knowledgeable he is than the rest of us. Try to respond to what I wrote next time instead of pushing your infinite teacher wisdom on all of us. Jam it, echo, as far as possible. If there are any grammatical errors, u can jam them too, arrogant jackass.
Duck, I told u about how I feel about the students that "feel unsafe". U told me how u feel about those same students. Not sure how that translates into me not even trying to understand the others' points of view. I understand it and still think they're snowflakes. U think people of similar beliefs to mine are rednecks, white trash and mouth breathers that have no wit or intelligence. How does that translate into me not even trying to understand the others' points of view and you accepting others' points of view? So again, I understand your point of view. I know u liberals think u're more enlightened than the rest of us and that we're beneath you, but I promise I can grasp the student's protest. I just think they're full of shit. Same way I feel about you. Have a great day.
Duck, I told u about how I feel about the students that "feel unsafe". U told me how u feel about those same students. Not sure how that translates into me not even trying to understand the others' points of view. I understand it and still think they're snowflakes. U think people of similar beliefs to mine are rednecks, white trash and mouth breathers that have no wit or intelligence. How does that translate into me not even trying to understand the others' points of view and you accepting others' points of view? So again, I understand your point of view. I know u liberals think u're more enlightened than the rest of us and that we're beneath you, but I promise I can grasp the student's protest. I just think they're full of shit. Same way I feel about you. Have a great day.
francade, you've piqued my curiosity. I suspect that you didn't attend ND. What is your affiliation with ND?
Duck, first & foremost, I want to apologize for my previous post. I haven't read enough of your posts to say that about you and for that I'm truly sorry. W/ that said, I still believe the students are overreacting. I firmly believe in their right to protest. I also firmly believe in our right to voice our opinion of them, whether it be negative or positive. I don't think calling these protesters snowflakes is that big a deal. Don't know why it's turned into such a big thing. As for my affiliation w/ ND? Fan since I can remember. Relatives (grandfather, brother, sister, 3 nephews & 1 niece) attended ND (one a current freshman). I attended Bucknell. By your response, it appears as though u think ND is above me, so I guess it's good I didn't go there. We'll agree to disagree on the snowflake issue.
I think of "snowflake" being primarily a reference to fragility, or maybe over-fragility. Maybe 30 years ago we might have used the term "pansy". Anyone who feels less safe or less secure because Mike Pence is speaking on campus is either overly fragile, overly dramatic, or some combination of both. The idea of feeling endangered by, or afraid of, SPEECH that indicates feelings contrary to yours is a pretty new phenomenon, and it appears to have its roots in academia. Now, instead of me disagreeing with the way you enunciate your feelings, or just ignoring you, I feel emboldened to impair your ability to voice those feelings within ear shot of me.
Nobody "mans up" or "toughs it out" anymore, and it seems like those behaviors are not even encouraged in academia. Instead of helping people overcome mental weakness (separating that from any kind of mental disorder), we now celebrate it.
What would Father Hesburgh do? He would be quick to recognize the right of any student to have an opposing opinion and to voice that opinion within reasonable parameters. He would also to be quick to warn any applicable students that their classmates have rights also, and one of those is to live and go to school on this campus free of intentional distraction and harassment. He would remind students that ND has a long history of welcoming figures from across the wide political spectrum, and treating them respectfully and engaging them in thoughtful discussion, no matter how much we agree or disagree with them, and we intend to continue that behavior mode. As to any student that told Father Hesburgh that he or she felt less safe because of a certain speaker being on campus, he would suggest staying in the safe sanctity of your dorm room until the coast was clear. But he'd think you were a pansy. He was a pretty tough cookie.
Nobody "mans up" or "toughs it out" anymore, and it seems like those behaviors are not even encouraged in academia. Instead of helping people overcome mental weakness (separating that from any kind of mental disorder), we now celebrate it.
What would Father Hesburgh do? He would be quick to recognize the right of any student to have an opposing opinion and to voice that opinion within reasonable parameters. He would also to be quick to warn any applicable students that their classmates have rights also, and one of those is to live and go to school on this campus free of intentional distraction and harassment. He would remind students that ND has a long history of welcoming figures from across the wide political spectrum, and treating them respectfully and engaging them in thoughtful discussion, no matter how much we agree or disagree with them, and we intend to continue that behavior mode. As to any student that told Father Hesburgh that he or she felt less safe because of a certain speaker being on campus, he would suggest staying in the safe sanctity of your dorm room until the coast was clear. But he'd think you were a pansy. He was a pretty tough cookie.
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I would think Father Ted would want to run the damn ball and play some great defense, stop the run.
