You can learn that they recruit a lot of players out of state and none of said recruits came because they care about BUG rivals like Wisconsin and Rutgers.
Time to join a conference
- Thread starter Catholicfan95
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You can learn that they recruit a lot of players out of state and none of said recruits came because they care about BUG rivals like Wisconsin and Rutgers.
Debunked by the opinions of recruits themselves...on what is important to them.
Debunked by the ND Admin...as to what is necessary for the ND Admin to continue to put together high quality schedules.
Etc.
That is why my opinion is factually based and your "opinion" has been debunked.
Youre right, id assume theyd tell you its due to the fact that OSU wins 10-12 games every year.
Hey Sherlock, debunk this one for me then please. Why has Notre Dame gone 5-13 in bowls and only had 6 10 win seasons, 4 of which have come under Kelly, in the last 25 years if the recruiting is directly linked to ND being independent?
Why have they lost every big game theyve played in 30 years and why wouldnt you want to explore avenues for changing that?
The on-field struggles for much of the past 25 years have been a direct result of failed coaching, along with an outdated administration.
Both have been address and continue to be addressed.
Again, your "points" lack any meanginful substance, in this case they lack any logical connection to your conclusion ("ND should join the Big10") and have...yet again....been debunked.
Any other questions?
Were you shocked when Ohio State missed the playoff just last year?
According to you, yes they have been debunked. However, if you havent noticed people agree with the points that I have made
I was, but I was not shocked that we got in at 4.
We got in at 3 behind Alabama and Clemson, if we had got in at 4 we would've played Alabama in the playoff.
It's actually according to your own inability to counter the actual fact-supported points I've made debunking them.
Okay friend, you win. I bow down to your ability to debunk my facts. Youre superior in all things having to do with ND joining a conference
If you're unable to counter the facts presented to you, then this is really the best way to go.
Good choice.
You've swayed my opinion on this matter zero. We just differ on opinions and it's okay, so just let it be.
You've simply failed to back your opinions up with any facts and have further failed to respond the actual facts that I've posted that PROVE I'm correct.
That's why your "opinion" has been debunked.
Just because your "opinion" has been proven to be wrong, doesn't mean you can't continue to blindly believe in it.
That regionalizing the program wouldn't hurt recruiting, considering that recruits themselves say how important ND playing in their local area is.
That the schedule is something other than "Good to Great" on a fairly consistent basis.
That ND needs to be in a conference to make the playoffs.
etc.
Basically....you've provided nothing.
Worse yet, you've failed to actually respond to the counterpoints.
Okay, well I'm driving so once I get home I'll give you what you want. Points n all. Very well layer out so you can quit busting my balls
Then I don’t understand why you’re not shocked as it happened to the conference you’re vying us to join just last year...
I’d rather join the ACC, although that would make it tough to schedule Big Ten teams, since we’d be locked into SC and Navy every year. So in that scenario, I’d like to use the other 2 OOC games for Big Ten teams, like old rivals Michigan, MSU and Purdue.
Why Notre Dame should join a conference
I have been trying to be a clear as I can be that this is only a reflection of my opinion and that different opinions are good for conversation. However, it seems that a majority of my counter parts have written me off. So, in an effort to further validate my opinion I will give a better, more formulated post to show that this argument carries it weight.
The upside of joining a conference: My preference the BIG10
Notre Dame is a national brand whose roots are tied to Midwest values of God, Country, Notre Dame, a very blue collar mentality exhibited since the birth of the school. So what would joining a conference bring to this brand.
· Stability: Joining a conference such as the BIG10 would bring a more stable structure to the scheduling format. At this point in time Notre Dame is playing 5 schools from the ACC a year, this group of 5 schools rotates every year. Some years there is an opportunity to play schools such as Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Virginia Tech. (the reason I chose these schools is because these are the best performing schools in the last decade. Record, Bowl appearances, Conference Championship Appearances, and most weeks inside of the top 25). Though it would be nice to play at least 2 of these top performers a year, which in some cases Notre Dame will, the constant shuffle creates an uncertainty of how many quality power 5 opponents are on the schedule, which in turn can effect non conference scheduling. Joining a conference like the BIG10 who plays 9 conference games a year currently would increase chances of playing more quality opponents on a year to year basis. This also gives you a better chance to know when you need to schedule a tougher non conference schedule, if you think of it that way. When it comes to the ACC outside of the four schools mentioned above the lack of quality teams is pretty clear, and when comparing the ACC to the BIG10 top to bottom the better overall conference is the BIG10.
· Regional fit: Notre Dame is regionally considered to be a Midwest school, regardless of its national brand where the university sits in South Bend Indiana makes it a perfect fit to join the BIG10. No team in the last decade has travelled more across the country than Notre Dame. No team has played more neutral sight regular season games than Notre Dame (this of course excludes bowl games). With a regional conference such as the BIG10 Notre Dames travel would easily be cut in half. The counter argument for most folks is, “Notre Dame playing a travelling schedule like this makes them more accessible for recruiting.” I cannot deny that Notre Dame playing in so many different locations is unique, brave and branded (branded meaning that this is a staple of the scheduling format) however, it also takes it tole on a college team. ( Remember this is just my opinion).
· Conference Championship: While many will argue that conference championships are meaningless, I would argue that since the CFP (College Football Playoff) has begun its 4 team format it has been one of the top 3 factors ( Wins vs Losses, Quality Opponents played and CC) in the selection committee final decision. If the BIG 12 had not gone to a CC format after the regular season Oklahoma would have been left out of the playoff not once but twice. The counter argument is that Ohio State was left out last year and they were conference champs, however OU was better than OSU and the committee chose them. But, on the same note had OSU not even played a CC they would have not even been considered against OU. The CC format gives teams on the bubble one last chance to play a normally quality opponent and get a win to impress the committee. Along with those reasons CC’s are a recruiting attraction. Any way you slice it if you tell a kid that coming to your program gives them the chance to win the conference championship its going to help you land that recruit. If these championships did not matter, then why do coaches have rings in their office for the world to see. It is a positive in that aspect any way you slice it.
· Recruitment: Though most think that joining a conference would confine you in recruiting look no further than Clemson, OSU, Penn State, Michigan and Texas. These schools are all blue blood programs whose luster shines like Notre Dames (Remember here folks it a comparison, not saying these programs have more luster than ours) yet are continually atop the top 25 recruiting charts with players from all across the country. (More recent Clemson landed the #1 Qb from Califorinia, Clemson hasn’t played a regular season game in Cali. Since? Not sure couldn’t find that stat, must be a long time). The way to recruit now is by winning and winning on a consistent basis, that draws in more recruits than playing in their home state. When you win people see you and now that everyone who wins is on TV the deal with NBC, though one of a kind, is no longer a tool ND can use against other schools to entice recruits.
· Playing rival schools (both traditional to ND and regional): The BIG10 offers more of Notre Dames rivals than any other conference, next best is the ACC (Boston College, Pitt). Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue are three teams that use to be on the schedule every year, two of which have rivalry trophies with. Along with those three teams think of the regional rivals Notre Dame shares with the likes of Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana and Northwestern. Personally, I feel like rejuvenating these types of rivalries would benefit Notre Dame greatly in areas such as recruiting. Having rivalries is what makes college football unique and to me it is clear that these elements can be found in the BIG10.
· Protecting the traditional games: With the BIG10 adding Notre Dame and getting a 15th school to the conference I could see them reverting to 8 conference games a year which would be great. 4 non conference slots open for the 3 schools we value most, USC, Stanford and Navy. Sure you may lose some of your flexibility but you would not be unable to paly these games every other year at least.
Like anything decisions come with there own list of negatives too, but you have listed those so I will not go into that here. The ACC would not be a horrible fit either, I think its just better in the BIG10.
I would just stop, newmember may be one of the ten dumbest nd fans in America
Why Notre Dame should join a conference
I have been trying to be a clear as I can be that this is only a reflection of my opinion and that different opinions are good for conversation. However, it seems that a majority of my counter parts have written me off. So, in an effort to further validate my opinion I will give a better, more formulated post to show that this argument carries it weight.
The upside of joining a conference: My preference the BIG10
Notre Dame is a national brand whose roots are tied to Midwest values of God, Country, Notre Dame, a very blue collar mentality exhibited since the birth of the school. So what would joining a conference bring to this brand.
· Stability: Joining a conference such as the BIG10 would bring a more stable structure to the scheduling format. At this point in time Notre Dame is playing 5 schools from the ACC a year, this group of 5 schools rotates every year. Some years there is an opportunity to play schools such as Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Virginia Tech. (the reason I chose these schools is because these are the best performing schools in the last decade. Record, Bowl appearances, Conference Championship Appearances, and most weeks inside of the top 25). Though it would be nice to play at least 2 of these top performers a year, which in some cases Notre Dame will, the constant shuffle creates an uncertainty of how many quality power 5 opponents are on the schedule, which in turn can effect non conference scheduling. Joining a conference like the BIG10 who plays 9 conference games a year currently would increase chances of playing more quality opponents on a year to year basis. This also gives you a better chance to know when you need to schedule a tougher non conference schedule, if you think of it that way. When it comes to the ACC outside of the four schools mentioned above the lack of quality teams is pretty clear, and when comparing the ACC to the BIG10 top to bottom the better overall conference is the BIG10.
· Regional fit: Notre Dame is regionally considered to be a Midwest school, regardless of its national brand where the university sits in South Bend Indiana makes it a perfect fit to join the BIG10. No team in the last decade has travelled more across the country than Notre Dame. No team has played more neutral sight regular season games than Notre Dame (this of course excludes bowl games). With a regional conference such as the BIG10 Notre Dames travel would easily be cut in half. The counter argument for most folks is, “Notre Dame playing a travelling schedule like this makes them more accessible for recruiting.” I cannot deny that Notre Dame playing in so many different locations is unique, brave and branded (branded meaning that this is a staple of the scheduling format) however, it also takes it tole on a college team. ( Remember this is just my opinion).
· Conference Championship: While many will argue that conference championships are meaningless, I would argue that since the CFP (College Football Playoff) has begun its 4 team format it has been one of the top 3 factors ( Wins vs Losses, Quality Opponents played and CC) in the selection committee final decision. If the BIG 12 had not gone to a CC format after the regular season Oklahoma would have been left out of the playoff not once but twice. The counter argument is that Ohio State was left out last year and they were conference champs, however OU was better than OSU and the committee chose them. But, on the same note had OSU not even played a CC they would have not even been considered against OU. The CC format gives teams on the bubble one last chance to play a normally quality opponent and get a win to impress the committee. Along with those reasons CC’s are a recruiting attraction. Any way you slice it if you tell a kid that coming to your program gives them the chance to win the conference championship its going to help you land that recruit. If these championships did not matter, then why do coaches have rings in their office for the world to see. It is a positive in that aspect any way you slice it.
· Recruitment: Though most think that joining a conference would confine you in recruiting look no further than Clemson, OSU, Penn State, Michigan and Texas. These schools are all blue blood programs whose luster shines like Notre Dames (Remember here folks it a comparison, not saying these programs have more luster than ours) yet are continually atop the top 25 recruiting charts with players from all across the country. (More recent Clemson landed the #1 Qb from Califorinia, Clemson hasn’t played a regular season game in Cali. Since? Not sure couldn’t find that stat, must be a long time). The way to recruit now is by winning and winning on a consistent basis, that draws in more recruits than playing in their home state. When you win people see you and now that everyone who wins is on TV the deal with NBC, though one of a kind, is no longer a tool ND can use against other schools to entice recruits.
· Playing rival schools (both traditional to ND and regional): The BIG10 offers more of Notre Dames rivals than any other conference, next best is the ACC (Boston College, Pitt). Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue are three teams that use to be on the schedule every year, two of which have rivalry trophies with. Along with those three teams think of the regional rivals Notre Dame shares with the likes of Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana and Northwestern. Personally, I feel like rejuvenating these types of rivalries would benefit Notre Dame greatly in areas such as recruiting. Having rivalries is what makes college football unique and to me it is clear that these elements can be found in the BIG10.
· Protecting the traditional games: With the BIG10 adding Notre Dame and getting a 15th school to the conference I could see them reverting to 8 conference games a year which would be great. 4 non conference slots open for the 3 schools we value most, USC, Stanford and Navy. Sure you may lose some of your flexibility but you would not be unable to paly these games every other year at least.
Like anything decisions come with there own list of negatives too, but you have listed those so I will not go into that here. The ACC would not be a horrible fit either, I think its just better in the BIG10.
Just put the clown on ignore. Your valid points will never get through to a moron.
iNDepeNDent!
I am aware. Its hard to keep all your thoughts on track when you have a group of people constantly harassing you,but Im doing my best here.
I don’t agree with all of your thoughts but the discussion is worth having. We are in a conference for all other sports some of which have had more success than football over the last few decades and they all recruit nationally. At least you are trying to defend your point catholic. Some of these detractors that respond with cliches and name calling should go to an sec name calling board. Complete idiots bereft of any original ideas. Times change and ND has been an habitual late adopter to virtually everything—— redshirting, ee’s, training table, medical tents, state of art weight programs, stadium improvement-Jumbotron—, uniforms, off campus housing, bs majors like film and tv, tutoring programs. And so it is with a discussion involving conference participation. Some would prefer to put blinders on and wrap themselves in an ideological garb of mythology/ history, and ignore the concessions we make every day to compete at this level. For those that say ‘ you don’t get nd’’, it’s these people that don’t understand to compete with the top 5 programs you play by very similar rules and bring in very similar athletes and do what you need to do to keep them here. My suspicion is someday we will be in a conference Catholic but only when the economics serve us. Because this isn’t about the Johnny or the joes it’s about $ And that is about the only thing “ special” these days with ND football—- a money making machine.
I can see your point. ND would be the second best team in the ACC and the 6th best team in the B10.
This type of trolling is just ineffective.
You either need to be more subtle or more provactive.
Such drama over an opinion. Notre Dame will join a conference the same year a P5 league invites UCF to join them. Around 2089
Most of this is just dumb.
Our schedule is plenty "stable" already. Losing control of it and allowing it to turn stale is NOT a benefit.
As to recruiting, you continue to argue "well...this might not kill our recruiting. Maybe!"....not why it will help recruiting. And the analogies that you make are terrible (OSU/PSU recruit more from their own states than from any other...not an option for ND)
Furthermore, we don't need to join a conference to protect traditional games or rivalry games, we can just go ahead and schedule those teams. (USC, BC, Michigan, MIami, Pitt, etc.).....like we already are.
This is yet another example of your "points" being debunked by facts!
After posting this 3x....you still did NOTHING to address the facts.
(1) Recruits themselves confirm that a national schedule helps recruiting.
(2) The ND admin itself confirms that a partial relationship with the ACC is all it needs to schedule effectively, as it has been doing.
Address the facts, or just go back to admitting that you're in over your head.
You can claim your opinion as facts all day my man but just because you say they are facts does not mean they are.
"Losing control of it and allowing it to turn stale is NOT a benefit."- this is not a fact its an opinion.
I listed reasons as to why it would help recruiting so re read it.
"And the analogies that you make are terrible (OSU/PSU recruit more from their own states than from any other...not an option for ND)"- also your opinion
"And the analogies that you make are terrible (OSU/PSU recruit more from their own states than from any other...not an option for ND)"- This again is your opinion.
So where are all your facts your claiming to have stumped me with?
Wrong.
These are FACTS, you're just apparently unable to ID the difference:
- Fact: IN a conference, you lose control of your scheduling.
- Fact: Recruits explicitly state that a national schedule it important
- Fact: Ohio St & Penn St primarily recruit their own states
- etc.
My opinion is suported by specific facts, as I've cited.
You "opinion" is debunked by those same facts.
Again, you should go back to simply admitting that your in over your head!
I cited plenty of facts too. It is an argument with two valid sides.
I have seen how you operate on here. Time and time again you do not let other people express their own opinions, nor do you have the respect to engage in conversations. People have different opinions, you going from thread to thread telling people how dumb they are is just not right. It may be an online platform but seriously just have some common sense and just move forward.
I have stated my facts and you have stated yours move on.
And just a cherry on the top for your facts... Notre Dame plays 5 ACC games a year, plus 3 with USC, Stanford and Navy. That makes 8 games they have to play a year. The same number i suggested they would play in the BIG10 so how would they be more limited?
