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Thoughts After The Spring Game

IrishInOntario

I've posted how many times?
Feb 21, 2009
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Staring with the offense...

Ian Book: Continued to look like a great decision maker. The speed at which he processes information in the pocket and finds the open man, is impressive for a college quarterback. He's in complete command of the offense, which is nice to see. I'm curious whether or not they'll let him do much in the read option game this year, for fear of him getting hurt while running. It would be a shame if they take it away from him because he's a fantastic decision maker in the read option game.

I was a little bit disappointed to see him throw only 2 deep balls today, given that they spent a lot of spring working on it by all accounts. The throw to Claypool was perfect and it was nice to see him drive a ball out there, although it was horribly played by a cover 2 safety, and almost would never be that uncontested in a game. Regardless, the positioning of the ball was perfect. The 2nd throw, down the seem to Kmet was a little high, but I loved what he was thinking with 3 defenders in the area. Throw it up high where your tight end has the only chance. Tyler Eifert caught those passes in his sleep, If Cole Kmet wants to be an elite pass catching tight end, he'll have to make those plays as well. Ian's throw could have been better, but he needs his 6'6 tight end to make a play there.

Phil Jurkovec: I'm not nearly as worried as some on this board. The "touch" setting does not favour a 6'5, 220lb athlete. Make no mistake, Phil is never going to orchestrate the offense like Ian does. Ian is a pure quarterback, with some athleticism. Phil is a serious athlete, continuing to learn how to play quarterback. In the first half, when they ran plays he was comfortable with and he wasn't surrounded by 3rd string players, he made a couple plays, and was about a second late in making a couple more. Phil chose to finish his career in basketball, When he should have been getting these reps last spring. He got very few reps in the fall behind Ian and Brandon, so this is really his first college experience. With the red jersey off of him and the ability to keep the defense homest with the read option, he'd look completely different. Phil doesn't throw a pretty ball and his arm motion isn't something you brag about, but I'm at least a year away from being worried about him as a quarterback.

Jafar Armstrong: Theo Riddick 2.0... ND fans are going to love him. Elite pass catcher out of the backfield, runs behind his pads and is fearless inside. If he stays healthy, he's going to be a bell cow. Simms made the comparison to a Lev Bell. While that's high praise, if you go back to Bell's Michigan State days, I understand the comparison. Let's hope for a healthy season because I could see something like 1200-1300 yards. 700-800 on the ground, and another 500 through the air. I bet you'll see a good amount of 2 back sets this year with Jafar running a route and Tony Jones pass blocking.

Chase Claypool: can be as good as he wants to be, and as good as the opportunities that Ian gives him. Book loves to spread the ball around, but Chase (the version we heard about this spring) is a 10+ target per game wide receiver, who should absolutely wear defenses out. I boldly predicted a Larry Fitzgerald type senior season from him and while I was
carried away with that prediction (Fitz caught 92 passes for 1600+ yards and 22 TD's in 2003 at Pitt), I see absolutely no reason why he can't be an All American. Anything less that 75 receptions, 1100 yards and 12'ish TD's would be a disappointment for me if both he and Ian stay healthy. Dude is built like Calvin Johnson. No reason for him not to dominate and become a 1st rounder.

The rest of the receivers: I'm really happy with where the group is at. Michael Young will be a solid #3 receiver, Chris Finke is Ian's security blanket and should be outstanding in the slot. He might be the only reason Claypool's numbers aren't as good as they could be. That's not a bad thing. If Kevin Austin just keeps his head down and works his ass off, he'll steal reps from Young as the season goes and next year he'll line up in Chase's spot. Joe Wilkins, Lawrence Keys and Braden Lenzy all flashed as well. The future is bright at WR in South Bend. Cam Hart and Kendall Abdur-Rahman are going to get plenty of time to focus on learning the offense and hitting the weight room, because there is no room for them to get touches right now. Music to my ears.

The offensive line: Should be better than last year's group (post Alex Bars injury). There are no excuses for that unit. I did see a couple concerning things in the spring game and I'm still a little unsure of their OL coach, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he coaches half as good as he's been recruiting lately, the unit should be one of the 5 best in the country by the mid season mark. The tackles are really going to need to step up. I have a feeling that interior is going to be really solid, despite Patrerson being young.

Jahmir Smith and Kyren Williams: Are both going to be ballers. Smith is the kind of kid that goes to Wake Forest or North Carolina and becomes a 1000 yard rusher doing nothing flashy, but everything right. Williams has a weird combination of Theo Riddick's skill set, in Tarean Folston's body. Smith will be the third back this year and should get plenty of garbage time reps. Next year he'll be the #2 to Armstrong and will see an increased work load in the Tony Jones role. Kyren is a year away from making an impact, but he and Chris Tyree will battle like hell for 3rd team reps next year. Love the direction the running backs are heading in.

The tight ends: Prove it baby. Kmet, Wright and Tremble have a ton of talent, their position coach is the OC and Brian Kelly has noted that he wants the tight ends involved and making plays this year. ND is TE U. We always hear the hype, but it's been a while since a tight end played at an All American level. Time for someone to step up and be that weapon in the middle of the field that makes it near impossible for a defense to double over the top of Claypool. I'll remain confident in their ability, but I'll believe it when I see it. Cole Kmet in particular. He should dominate.
 
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Onto the defense...

Defensive ends: the best group in the country? Right there with Clemson's group, IMO. If Julian Okwara isn't an All American, the season was a failure for him. There is absolutely nothing stopping him from being that good. As long as he stays healthy, Khalid Kareem should have an All Conference type of season on the other side as well. Daelin Hayes is as good of a #3 DE as you'll find nationally, and the same can be said of Ade Ogundeji in the #4 spot... That's not a good 4-some. It's a potentially great group. I hope all 4 of them spend the next 4 months working out together and driving each other to become the nation's best group. What's interesting is what you do with the #5 spot. Jamir Jones is a good football player. If he was the #3 end on this team, I wouldn't bat an eye and I wouldn't worry about him playing 30 snaps per game... That said, there is talk of redshirting him and having him only contribute in 4 games this year, in order to get him a 5th year in 2020, when ND's top 3 ends graduate. I love that idea if he's on board and the decision is made easier, IMO, by the play of Justin Ademilola, who is every bit as good as Jones and probably has more upside. Let him be the #5 end this year and Osafo-Mensah, who also flashed yesterday, battle it out with Kofi Wardlow for the #6 spot. I like the defensive end depth a whole lot better heading into 2020 if Ade, Justin, Jamir, Ovie and Nana / Isaiah are all in the mix.

Interior DL: Brian Kelly doesn't appear worried about this group, but I am. I think MTA is going to be a player. I think Hinish is serviceable and I think Jay Ade can be a star if he continues to get bigger and stronger. Jacob Lacey is obviously progressing well as a freshman, but I'm not counting on much from either Franklin or Spears coming off lower body injuries, nor am I expecting an undersized Howard Cross to be much of a player as a freshman. It's not all doom and gloom. I don't want to give the impression that I think it's a bad group. I think it's simply a young, undersized unit, whose depth has been hurt by a couple tough injuries that take away your ability to lift heavy, and by some key misses (both in recruiting) and in development. A year from now, I'll probably love this group, anchored by 4 upper classmen and Lacey as a sophomore, but this year I have some definite questions... Especially if they face an injury.

Linebackers: There is a ton of talent out there, but they all need to finish baking. We know Asmar Bilal is going to play. He's not great, he's not bad and he's not going to takeover games or lose them for you. He's a solid stop gap in a transition year after losing two all conference type guys. Shayne Simon has all the skill and size you want. When he stops thinking and starts reacting (it will come in time) he's going to be the starter at Mike or Buck and will be a predator out there. You just look at him and say "oohhhhh that's what an Alabama Mike backer looks like in an ND uniform"... A lot like Tevon Coney, but 2 full inches taller. Mark my words, he'll be a menace at ND and so will his younger brother. Jordan Genmark-Heath just needs to continue to work hard. I don't think he's ever going to be a game changer, but he and Jack Lamb (who needs more work in the weight room) should be a decent tandem at Buck this year and by 2020, they could be a Plus tandem on the roster, the way Martini and Coney were in 2018. Out at rover, those kids just need to keep learning. Neither Owusu-Koramoah or Moala have played much football at the college level and they just need more reps before they can be fully evaluated. I need to see them live in a game before I'm going to be able to comment on them all that much. Derek Allen should be competing with them. He's not a safety at this level. IMO, he's a lot like Drue Tranquil. A step slow at safety in a frame that is begging to play linebacker. Please convince him to move to Rover Clark Lea....

Mike: Bilal
2. Simon
3. Bauer / Ekwonu

Buck: Lamb
2. Genmark-Heath
3. Kiser

Rover: Owusu-Koramoah
2. Moala
3. Allen

That should be the functional depth chart in the fall, IMO. Clark Lea has a ton of work to do with these guys between now and September 1st. He's a very good coach though and I have faith that he's going to field a respectable unit come the fall.

Safeties: Well ND has a pair of guys that could be All Americans, so there is that. I absolutely love the player Jalen Elliott has become. I'm proud of that kid. He's the best communicator back there. He's physical. He takes good angles to the football and he's the leader of that backend. He and Gilman will likely both be captains on this year's team and if that's the case, it's much deserved. I feel really good about those two starters and I think Kyle Hamilton will be an impact freshman and assume the #3 role. I've said it numerous times and I'll say it again, Allen should be moved to Rover, which leaves Brown as the #4 safety. He's clearly still learning, so it's a little early to judge... I wish Houston Griffith was playing as the #3 guy in this group right now. It's really where he belongs, IMO. Hamilton and he would make an excellent 2nd group in the fall and you'd feel really good about the transition after Elliot and Gilman graduate.

CB: Troy Pride is going to what we expect from him. He came on the back half of last year and looks like he's ready to be a #1 corner... The problem opposite him was in recruiting. ND struck out in 2017, after their two corners decomitted mid cycle and they wound up landing nobody. That proved to be a catastrophe, because Paulson Adebo would be lining up opposite Troy Pride and we'd be talking about one of the top corner pairings in the country. Because of the Donte Vaughn and Shaun Crawford injuries, Houston Griffith is starting out of position (should be the #3 safety) and Clark Lea is praying that either Vaughn comes back and wins the job, Crawford makes a miraculous recovery from a 3rd severe leg injury, or Griffith learns to play corner... ND has plenty of bodies to battle for the position, let's hope one of Vaughn, Crawford, Agoro, Bracy or Griffith win it outright in the fall and let's also hope that another one of those guys steps up as a quality #2 behind Troy Pride.
 
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Staring with the offense...

Ian Book: Continued to look like a great decision maker. The speed at which he processes information in the pocket and finds the open man, is impressive for a college quarterback. He's in complete command of the offense, which is nice to see. I'm curious whether or not they'll let him do much in the read option game this year, for fear of him getting hurt while running. It would be a shame if they take it away from him because he's a fantastic decision maker in the read option game.

I was a little bit disappointed to see him throw only 2 deep balls today, given that they spent a lot of spring working on it by all accounts. The throw to Claypool was perfect and it was nice to see him drive a ball out there, although it was horribly played by a cover 2 safety, and almost would never be that uncontested in a game. Regardless, the positioning of the ball was perfect. The 2nd throw, down the seem to Kmet was a little high, but I loved what he was thinking with 3 defenders in the area. Throw it up high where your tight end has the only chance. Tyler Eifert caught those passes in his sleep, If Cole Kmet wants to be an elite pass catching tight end, he'll have to make those plays as well. Ian's throw could have been better, but he needs his 6'6 tight end to make a play there.

Phil Jurkovec: I'm not nearly as worried as some on this board. The "touch" setting does not favour a 6'5, 220lb athlete. Make no mistake, Phil is never going to orchestrate the offense like Ian does. Ian is a pure quarterback, with some athleticism. Phil is a serious athlete, continuing to learn how to play quarterback. In the first half, when they were plays he was comfortable with and he wasn't surrounded by 3rd string players, he make a couple plays, and was about a second late in making a couple more. Phil chose to finish his career in basketball, When he should have been getting these reps last spring. He got very little in the fall behind Ian and Brandon, so this is really his first college experience. With the red jersey off of him and the ability to.keeo the defense imho est with the read option, he's look completely different. Phil doesn't throw a pretty ball and his arm motion isn't something you brag about, but I'm at least a year away from being worried about him as a quarterback.

Jafar Armstrong: Theo Riddick 2.0... ND fans are going to love him. Elite pass catcher out of the backfield, runs behind his pass an is fearless inside. If he stays healthy, he's going to be a bell cow. Simms made the comparison to a Lev Bell. While that's high praise, if you go back to Bell's Michigan State days, I understand the comparion. Let's hope for a healthy season because I could see something like 1200-1300 yards. 700-800 on the ground, and another 500 through the air. I bet yiu'll see a good amount of 2 backs sets this year while Jafar running a route and Tony Jones pass blocking.

Chase Claypool: can be as good as he wants to be, and as good as the opportunities that Ian gives him. Book loves to spread the ball around, but Chase (the version we heard about this spring) is a 10+ target per game wide receiver, who should absolutely wear defenses out. I boldly predicted a Larry Fitzgerald type senior season from him and while I was
carried away with that prediction (Fitz caught 92 passes for 1600+ yards and 22 TD's in 2003 at Pitt), I see absolutely no reason why he can't be an All American. Anything less that 75 receptions, 1100 yards and 12'ish TD's would be a disappointment for me if both he and Ian stay healthy. Dude is built like Calvin Johnson. No reason for him not to dominate and become a 1st rounder.

The rest of the receivers: I'm really happy with where the group is at. Michael Young will be a solid #3 receiver, Chris Finke is Ian's security blanket and should be outstanding in the slot. He might be the only reason Claypool's numbers aren't as good as they could be. That's not a bad thing. If Kevin Austin just keeps his head down and works his ass off, he'll steal reps from Young as the season goes and next year he'll line up in Chase's spot. Joe Wilkins, Lawrence Keys and Braden Lenzy all flashed as well. The future is bright at WR in South Bend. Cam Hart and Kendall Abdur-Rahman are going to get plenty of time to focus on learning the offense and hitting the weight room, because there is no room for them to get touches right now. Music to my ears.

The offensive line: Should be better than last year's group (post Alex Bars injury). There are no excuses for that unit. I did see a couple concerning things in the spring game and I'm still a little unsure of their OL coach, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he coaches half as good as he's been recruiting lately, the unit should be one of the 5 best in the country by the mid season mark. The tackles are really going to need to step up. I have a feeling that interior is going to be really solid, despite Patrerson being young.

Jahmir Smith and Kyren Williams: Are both going to be ballers. Smith is the kind of kid that goes to Wake Forest or North Carolina and becomes a 1000 yard rusher doing nothing flashy, but everything right. Williams has a weird combination of Theo Riddick's skill set, in Tarean Folston's body. Smith will be the third back this year and should get plenty of garbage time reps. Next year he'll be the #2 to Armstrong and will see an increased work load in the Tony Jones role. Kyren is a year away from making and impact, but he and Chris Tyree will battle like hell for 3rd team reps next year. Love the direction the running backs are heading in.

The tight ends: Prove it baby. Kmet, Wright and Tremble have a ton of talent, their position coach is the OC and Brian Kelly has noted that he wants the tight ends involved and making plays this year. ND is TE U. We always hear the hype, but it's been a while since a tight end played at an All American level. Time for someone to step up and be that weapon in the middle of the field that makes it near impossible for a defense to double over the top of Claypool. I'll remain confident in their ability, but I'll believe it when I see it. Cole Kmet in particular. He should dominate.

Did Kyren Williams put on a s ton of weigh since enrolling or was he always that thick?
 
Did Kyren Williams put on a s ton of weigh since enrolling or was he always that thick?

Both... Kyren was always thick. Right now he's not a great kind of thick though.

Typical freshman who tried to bulk up and get too big, adding chunk, instead of lean muscle. The latter takes much longer to build, therefore, young guys often put on a little bit of bad weight in an attempt to get to college "ready"... Kyren isn't tall, so an extra 10lbs really shows up on him. I'd say he's about his ideal playing weight 210'ish pounds, he simply needs to strip down to about 195'ish lbs, IMO, and build it back over the next 2 years, in a leaner way... Dude is still going to be a baller, regardless.

Tony Jones showed up to Notre Dame the same way. With some baby fat on him. He's 222lbs now, but 4 years later, it's totally different weight.
 
I spent a lot of time watching the 2's and I like the Agoro kid.

Kid would play at a lot of places-----amazing he's a walk on.

I wouldn't write off the Franklin kid for this year--------Bauer either
 
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Nice analysis!

Did Darnell Ewell see the field yesterday? How did Avery Davis look at CB?

We really need the DE's to live up to their billing. I'm a bit concerned at CB, though our schedule isn't filled with teams that have loads of NFL wide receivers (of course Georgia and USC will have studs).

Man Georgia is scary this year. Very good QB, good athletes at WR and a team that was able to run the ball down Bama's throat. We'll know what we have in the interior DL after that game.
 
Nice analysis!

Did Darnell Ewell see the field yesterday? How did Avery Davis look at CB?

We really need the DE's to live up to their billing. I'm a bit concerned at CB, though our schedule isn't filled with teams that have loads of NFL wide receivers (of course Georgia and USC will have studs).

Man Georgia is scary this year. Very good QB, good athletes at WR and a team that was able to run the ball down Bama's throat. We'll know what we have in the interior DL after that game.

Michigan is also a very good WR group.
 
IIO,

Would you advise Bill Belichick to start letting Tom Brady run the read option ?

Having Book run the read option more than just occasionally would be taking a huge risk.

You do remember Malik Zaire don’t you ?
 
IIO,

Would you advise Bill Belichick to start letting Tom Brady run the read option ?

Having Book run the read option more than just occasionally would be taking a huge risk.

You do remember Malik Zaire don’t you ?

That's why you have to have a capable backup. Oklahoma has set offensive records for years... I don't remember them changing the offense for Sam Bradford when he was winning the Heisman. I don't remember them stopping Kyler Murray from running last year on route to the Heisman. He rushed 140 times, for 1001 yards and 12 TD's in 2018. In 2017 Baker Mayfield ran 97 times and had 6 rushing touchdowns on his way to the Heisman.

Tom Brady is a 40 year old statue. No I wouldn't advise New England to have him run... Because he's infinitely more valuable as a passer and rushing is not a part of his skill set.... He and Ian Book are nothing alike. Their comparison ends at "starting quarterback".
 
Staring with the offense...

Ian Book: Continued to look like a great decision maker. The speed at which he processes information in the pocket and finds the open man, is impressive for a college quarterback. He's in complete command of the offense, which is nice to see. I'm curious whether or not they'll let him do much in the read option game this year, for fear of him getting hurt while running. It would be a shame if they take it away from him because he's a fantastic decision maker in the read option game.

I was a little bit disappointed to see him throw only 2 deep balls today, given that they spent a lot of spring working on it by all accounts. The throw to Claypool was perfect and it was nice to see him drive a ball out there, although it was horribly played by a cover 2 safety, and almost would never be that uncontested in a game. Regardless, the positioning of the ball was perfect. The 2nd throw, down the seem to Kmet was a little high, but I loved what he was thinking with 3 defenders in the area. Throw it up high where your tight end has the only chance. Tyler Eifert caught those passes in his sleep, If Cole Kmet wants to be an elite pass catching tight end, he'll have to make those plays as well. Ian's throw could have been better, but he needs his 6'6 tight end to make a play there.

Phil Jurkovec: I'm not nearly as worried as some on this board. The "touch" setting does not favour a 6'5, 220lb athlete. Make no mistake, Phil is never going to orchestrate the offense like Ian does. Ian is a pure quarterback, with some athleticism. Phil is a serious athlete, continuing to learn how to play quarterback. In the first half, when they ran plays he was comfortable with and he wasn't surrounded by 3rd string players, he made a couple plays, and was about a second late in making a couple more. Phil chose to finish his career in basketball, When he should have been getting these reps last spring. He got very few reps in the fall behind Ian and Brandon, so this is really his first college experience. With the red jersey off of him and the ability to keep the defense homest with the read option, he'd look completely different. Phil doesn't throw a pretty ball and his arm motion isn't something you brag about, but I'm at least a year away from being worried about him as a quarterback.

Jafar Armstrong: Theo Riddick 2.0... ND fans are going to love him. Elite pass catcher out of the backfield, runs behind his pads and is fearless inside. If he stays healthy, he's going to be a bell cow. Simms made the comparison to a Lev Bell. While that's high praise, if you go back to Bell's Michigan State days, I understand the comparison. Let's hope for a healthy season because I could see something like 1200-1300 yards. 700-800 on the ground, and another 500 through the air. I bet you'll see a good amount of 2 back sets this year with Jafar running a route and Tony Jones pass blocking.

Chase Claypool: can be as good as he wants to be, and as good as the opportunities that Ian gives him. Book loves to spread the ball around, but Chase (the version we heard about this spring) is a 10+ target per game wide receiver, who should absolutely wear defenses out. I boldly predicted a Larry Fitzgerald type senior season from him and while I was
carried away with that prediction (Fitz caught 92 passes for 1600+ yards and 22 TD's in 2003 at Pitt), I see absolutely no reason why he can't be an All American. Anything less that 75 receptions, 1100 yards and 12'ish TD's would be a disappointment for me if both he and Ian stay healthy. Dude is built like Calvin Johnson. No reason for him not to dominate and become a 1st rounder.

The rest of the receivers: I'm really happy with where the group is at. Michael Young will be a solid #3 receiver, Chris Finke is Ian's security blanket and should be outstanding in the slot. He might be the only reason Claypool's numbers aren't as good as they could be. That's not a bad thing. If Kevin Austin just keeps his head down and works his ass off, he'll steal reps from Young as the season goes and next year he'll line up in Chase's spot. Joe Wilkins, Lawrence Keys and Braden Lenzy all flashed as well. The future is bright at WR in South Bend. Cam Hart and Kendall Abdur-Rahman are going to get plenty of time to focus on learning the offense and hitting the weight room, because there is no room for them to get touches right now. Music to my ears.

The offensive line: Should be better than last year's group (post Alex Bars injury). There are no excuses for that unit. I did see a couple concerning things in the spring game and I'm still a little unsure of their OL coach, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he coaches half as good as he's been recruiting lately, the unit should be one of the 5 best in the country by the mid season mark. The tackles are really going to need to step up. I have a feeling that interior is going to be really solid, despite Patrerson being young.

Jahmir Smith and Kyren Williams: Are both going to be ballers. Smith is the kind of kid that goes to Wake Forest or North Carolina and becomes a 1000 yard rusher doing nothing flashy, but everything right. Williams has a weird combination of Theo Riddick's skill set, in Tarean Folston's body. Smith will be the third back this year and should get plenty of garbage time reps. Next year he'll be the #2 to Armstrong and will see an increased work load in the Tony Jones role. Kyren is a year away from making an impact, but he and Chris Tyree will battle like hell for 3rd team reps next year. Love the direction the running backs are heading in.

The tight ends: Prove it baby. Kmet, Wright and Tremble have a ton of talent, their position coach is the OC and Brian Kelly has noted that he wants the tight ends involved and making plays this year. ND is TE U. We always hear the hype, but it's been a while since a tight end played at an All American level. Time for someone to step up and be that weapon in the middle of the field that makes it near impossible for a defense to double over the top of Claypool. I'll remain confident in their ability, but I'll believe it when I see it. Cole Kmet in particular. He should dominate.
Lol. You said Phil is a better athlete than Ian. That is laughable. Being tall does not make you a better athlete. In fact, it’s usually quite the opposite.
 
Lol. You said Phil is a better athlete than Ian. That is laughable. Being tall does not make you a better athlete. In fact, it’s usually quite the opposite.

Phil is a better athlete than Ian. Did you see Phil play high school basketball?

Ian is a better quarterback than Phil right now. I'd be shocked if he was a better athlete than Phil in any other capacity.

Phil runs faster than Ian, probably kills him in the weight room (and definitely will at the same age). He led his team to state championships in basketball. He's an effortless dunker.

Being a good quarterback and being a good athlete are not mutually exclusive, nor are they automatically separate... I think Ian played some pretty good baseball if I remember correctly, but if you're picking the better athlete, you'd take Phil 10 times out of 10. As you would have with Brandon last year... When you're choosing a quarterback, however, Ian is the significantly better option right now.
 
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Ian concentrated on Football and Lax in high school. Being a lax player -- seeing the field, making quick decisions to pass to cutters in stride, to shoot, etc... I believed helped his football skills. He also was a hoops player: “He was a very good basketball player and played travel AAU for the longest time,” Rick said. “His mom and I actually thought that was going to be the sport that he stuck with. But then he picked up lacrosse and baseball, and it was lacrosse and football that he liked the most.” He was also a good pitcher.

I would bet that Ian is a good basketball player -- remember Joe Montana was Mr. Basketball in Pa -- saw him dunk in a bookstore game -- but Phil was apparently really good...

Watching Phil's hs tape I was most amazed by his speed and quickness -- that kid can really run for a big guy! I would like to see Kelly design a couple of packages for him, read option stuff (like he did for Book early last year!) or fake the option, then step back and throw a long one... Build his confidence by playing to his strength...
 
Ian concentrated on Football and Lax in high school. Being a lax player -- seeing the field, making quick decisions to pass to cutters in stride, to shoot, etc... I believed helped his football skills. He also was a hoops player: “He was a very good basketball player and played travel AAU for the longest time,” Rick said. “His mom and I actually thought that was going to be the sport that he stuck with. But then he picked up lacrosse and baseball, and it was lacrosse and football that he liked the most.” He was also a good pitcher.

I would bet that Ian is a good basketball player -- remember Joe Montana was Mr. Basketball in Pa -- saw him dunk in a bookstore game -- but Phil was apparently really good...

Watching Phil's hs tape I was most amazed by his speed and quickness -- that kid can really run for a big guy! I would like to see Kelly design a couple of packages for him, read option stuff (like he did for Book early last year!) or fake the option, then step back and throw a long one... Build his confidence by playing to his strength...

LAX, thanks! I thought it was baseball, but I knew he played another sport!

I still think Phil is a special athlete.
 
IIO,

Would you advise Bill Belichick to start letting Tom Brady run the read option ?

Having Book run the read option more than just occasionally would be taking a huge risk.

You do remember Malik Zaire don’t you ?
Wow ,talk about apples and oranges .....
 
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That's why you have to have a capable backup. Oklahoma has set offensive records for years... I don't remember them changing the offense for Sam Bradford when he was winning the Heisman. I don't remember them stopping Kyler Murray from running last year on route to the Heisman. He rushed 140 times, for 1001 yards and 12 TD's in 2018. In 2017 Baker Mayfield ran 97 times and had 6 rushing touchdowns on his way to the Heisman.

Tom Brady is a 40 year old statue. No I wouldn't advise New England to have him run... Because he's infinitely more valuable as a passer and rushing is not a part of his skill set.... He and Ian Book are nothing alike. Their comparison ends at "starting quarterback".

1. Sam Bradford ran for ONLY 36 yards in his entire college career at Oklahoma, proving my point. You don’t risk running a quality passer, especially when you don’t have a quality backup passer.

2. Baker Mayfield had Kyler Murray as his backup

3. ND does not have a proven capable backup QB, so why would you send Book in harms way.

4. Tom Brady in his entire career only has 1,000 yards rushing, further proving my point.

You don’t run a quality passer when you don’t have a proven backup QB.
 
Phil is a better athlete than Ian. Did you see Phil play high school basketball?

Ian is a better quarterback than Phil right now. I'd be shocked if he was a better athlete than Phil in any other capacity.

Phil runs faster than Ian, probably kills him in the weight room (and definitely will at the same age). He led his team to state championships in basketball. He's an effortless dunker.

Being a good quarterback and being a good athlete are not mutually exclusive, nor are they automatically separate... I think Ian played some pretty good baseball if I remember correctly, but if you're picking the better athlete, you'd take Phil 10 times out of 10. As you would have with Brandon last year... When you're choosing a quarterback, however, Ian is the significantly better option right now.

When you play a game, you play the best player at that position, not the best athlete.

Didn’t Brandon Wimbush teach you anything ?
 
When you play a game, you play the best player at that position, not the best athlete.

Didn’t Brandon Wimbush teach you anything ?

When did I ever argue that Phil should play over Ian, or that Ian isn't the better quarterback?... Talk about straight up inventing things. I explicitly stated that Ian was the better quarterback and that Phil is a superior athlete, who they are trying to build into a quarterback.

You literally attacked my post by inventing something that I did not say, then circled back and attacked a position that you created.

I never said that Phil should start over Ian.

I never said that you should start Phil over Ian because I'd rather the athlete than the quarterback.

It's Brian Kelly's responsibility to have Phil ready to help ND win should Ian get hurt while running the offense.. And not a restricted version out of fear of injury. I watched Malik Zaire get hurt at Virginia. Did you watch the rest of the season, when his backup, who looked worse than Phil did yesterday that same spring (sophomore) go on to have arguably the best season any quarterback has had under Brian Kelly?

Deshone Kizer, who almost gave up football in the spring of 2015 because he was playing so poorly...

2015 stats as a sophomore, starting 11 games (including the Bowl Game)....

2880 yards passing
21 passing touchdowns
521 rushing yards
10 rushing touchdowns

Not only did Kelly let Zaire run as a function of the offense, when he broke his ankle, Kelly still let his backup, Deshone Kizer, aggressively run on the way to a stellar season.

Don't coach scared.
 
When did I ever argue that Phil should play over Ian, or that Ian isn't the better quarterback?... Talk about straight up inventing things. I explicitly stated that Ian was the better quarterback and that Phil is a superior athlete, who they are trying to build into a quarterback.

You literally attacked my post by inventing something that I did not say, then circled back and attacked a position that you created.

I never said that Phil should start over Ian.

I never said that you should start Phil over Ian because I'd rather the athlete than the quarterback.

It's Brian Kelly's responsibility to have Phil ready to help ND win should Ian get hurt while running the offense.. And not a restricted version out of fear of injury. I watched Malik Zaire get hurt at Virginia. Did you watch the rest of the season, when his backup, who looked worse than Phil did yesterday that same spring (sophomore) go on to have arguably the best season any quarterback has had under Brian Kelly?

Deshone Kizer, who almost gave up football in the spring of 2015 because he was playing so poorly...

2015 stats as a sophomore, starting 11 games (including the Bowl Game)....

2880 yards passing
21 passing touchdowns
521 rushing yards
10 rushing touchdowns

Not only did Kelly let Zaire run as a function of the offense, when he broke his ankle, Kelly still let his backup, Deshone Kizer, aggressively run on the way to a stellar season.

Don't coach scared.

You posited that Kelly should let Book run the read option and I countered that that would be foolish because ND doesn’t have a capable backup QB.

You then went on to tell us that PJ is a better athlete than Book, to which I countered that that was irrelevant since Book was the better QB.

Kizer was more than a capable QB, he was a better QB than Zaire, Kelly just didn’t recognize that he was a better QB.

It’s also worth noting that Procise was also a backup at the start of the season, which again speaks to the question of recognizing talent.

It’s not a matter of coaching scared, it’s a matter of coaching smart.
 
Lol. You said Phil is a better athlete than Ian. That is laughable. Being tall does not make you a better athlete. In fact, it’s usually quite the opposite.
There is zero doubt phil is a better athlete. Look at his videos. Doesnt mean hes a better player but phil ps an athletic freak.
 
1. Sam Bradford ran for ONLY 36 yards in his entire college career at Oklahoma, proving my point. You don’t risk running a quality passer, especially when you don’t have a quality backup passer.

2. Baker Mayfield had Kyler Murray as his backup

3. ND does not have a proven capable backup QB, so why would you send Book in harms way.

4. Tom Brady in his entire career only has 1,000 yards rushing, further proving my point.

You don’t run a quality passer when you don’t have a proven backup QB.
So youre cool with taking 25% of a playbook away for fear of injury. Just a silly statement.
 
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You posited that Kelly should let Book run the read option and I countered that that would be foolish because ND doesn’t have a capable backup QB.

You then went on to tell us that PJ is a better athlete than Book, to which I countered that that was irrelevant since Book was the better QB.

Kizer was more than a capable QB, he was a better QB than Zaire, Kelly just didn’t recognize that he was a better QB.

It’s also worth noting that Procise was also a backup at the start of the season, which again speaks to the question of recognizing talent.

It’s not a matter of coaching scared, it’s a matter of coaching smart.

Your second paragraph is the issue. That is not what you said. I said that Phil is a better athlete than Ian. You countered by saying "that's laughable" and claimed that I wanted Phil to start because he's the better quarterback... So you created a claim that I never made and you argued a point that I never inferred.

We're in agreement that Ian is the better quarterback. That wasn't the argument, however, but it's what you tried to make it.
 
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You posited that Kelly should let Book run the read option and I countered that that would be foolish because ND doesn’t have a capable backup QB.

You then went on to tell us that PJ is a better athlete than Book, to which I countered that that was irrelevant since Book was the better QB.

Kizer was more than a capable QB, he was a better QB than Zaire, Kelly just didn’t recognize that he was a better QB.

It’s also worth noting that Procise was also a backup at the start of the season, which again speaks to the question of recognizing talent.

It’s not a matter of coaching scared, it’s a matter of coaching smart.
you seem to conveniently forget that Procise had also changed positions. you act like he was a life long running back nailed to the bench. leave the football opinions to those who know the game.
 
1. Sam Bradford ran for ONLY 36 yards in his entire college career at Oklahoma, proving my point. You don’t risk running a quality passer, especially when you don’t have a quality backup passer.

2. Baker Mayfield had Kyler Murray as his backup

3. ND does not have a proven capable backup QB, so why would you send Book in harms way.

4. Tom Brady in his entire career only has 1,000 yards rushing, further proving my point.

You don’t run a quality passer when you don’t have a proven backup QB.
duh, Oklahoma didn't ask Bradford to run much if it all because he was not a very athletic QB. Book certainly is and more than capable of running RPOs effectively. Why would anyone take that phase of the game away from their offense ? the more you show the more things the defense has to prepare for.
 
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Back to thoughts on the spring game.

1. Book is the best QB, not even close but that doesn't mean book should get 100% of the snaps. To me, book looked exactly the same. He was going against an inexperienced defense and was able to pick them apart. He still had happy feet a few times when the pocket was fine, and we didn't get to see much downfield passing. With that said, IMHO he's got better weapons to throw to this year, so that will help.

2. Phil, he's got a long ways to go to be a championship caliber QB. With that said, he needs to get valuable in game reps this year. Either because book improves and we light up some teams, or because book hasn't improved and Phil gets worked in.

3. Claypool should have a monster year if healthy and book is QB. I said it last year and it didn't happen for multiple reasons. We shall see.

4. Armstrong might be the best all around back we've had under Kelly. He won't hit the pure home runs adams or williams hit, but he can do everything.

5. O-line did some good things especially in run game, and did some bad things in pass pro. Oline is key for ND O this year. They looked like possibly one of our most athletic Olines.

6. I think the TEs will be used more effectively this year

7. Dline can get at the QB, but run D might not be stout

8. LBers are extremely athletic, but i feel like the best LBers weren't all with the ones. Bilal is just awful, they showed him run down a play or two, but he had to run it down because he was so late and clueless

9. Corners scare me. I think Pride will be solid, but not confident in our #2 at all.

10. Safety play should be good
 
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Onto the defense...

Defensive ends: the best group in the country? Right there with Clemson's group, IMO. If Julian Okwara isn't an All American, the season was a failure for him. There is absolutely nothing stopping him from being that good. As long as he stays healthy, Khalid Kareem should have an All Conference type of season on the other side as well. Daelin Hayes is as good of a #3 DE as you'll find nationally, and the same can be said of Ade Ogundeji in the #4 spot... That's not a good 4-some. It's a potentially great group. I hope all 4 of them spend the next 4 months working out together and driving each other to become the nation's best group. What's interesting is what you do with the #5 spot. Jamir Jones is a good football player. If he was the #3 end on this team, I wouldn't bat an eye and I wouldn't worry about him playing 30 snaps per game... That said, there is talk of redshirting him and having him only contribute in 4 games this year, in order to get him a 5th year in 2020, when ND's top 3 ends graduate. I love that idea if he's on board and the decision is made easier, IMO, by the play of Justin Ademilola, who is every bit as good as Jones and probably has more upside. Let him be the #5 end this year and Osafo-Mensah, who also flashed yesterday, battle it out with Kofi Wardlow for the #6 spot. I like the defensive end depth a whole lot better heading into 2020 if Ade, Justin, Jamir, Ovie and Nana / Isaiah are all in the mix.

Interior DL: Brian Kelly doesn't appear worried about this group, but I am. I think MTA is going to be a player. I think Hinish is serviceable and I think Jay Ade can be a star if he continues to get bigger and stronger. Jacob Lacey is obviously progressing well as a freshman, but I'm not counting on much from either Franklin or Spears coming off lower body injuries, nor am I expecting an undersized Howard Cross to be much of a player as a freshman. It's not all doom and gloom. I don't want to give the impression that I think it's a bad group. I think it's simply a young, undersized unit, whose depth has been hurt by a couple tough injuries that take away your ability to lift heavy, and by some key misses (both in recruiting) and in development. A year from now, I'll probably love this group, anchored by 4 upper classmen and Lacey as a sophomore, but this year I have some definite questions... Especially if they face an injury.

Linebackers: There is a ton of talent out there, but they all need to finish baking. We know Asmar Bilal is going to play. He's not great, he's not bad and he's not going to takeover games or lose them for you. He's a solid stop gap in a transition year after losing two all conference type guys. Shayne Simon has all the skill and size you want. When he stops thinking and starts reacting (it will come in time) he's going to be the starter at Mike or Buck and will be a predator out there. You just look at him and say "oohhhhh that's what an Alabama Mike backer looks like in an ND uniform"... A lot like Tevon Coney, but 2 full inches taller. Mark my words, he'll be a menace at ND and so will his younger brother. Jordan Genmark-Heath just needs to continue to work hard. I don't think he's ever going to be a game changer, but he and Jack Lamb (who needs more work in the weight room) should be a decent tandem at Buck this year and by 2020, they could be a Plus tandem on the roster, the way Martini and Coney were in 2018. Out at rover, those kids just need to keep learning. Neither Owusu-Koramoah or Moala have played much football at the college level and they just need more reps before they can be fully evaluated. I need to see them live in a game before I'm going to be able to comment on them all that much. Derek Allen should be competing with them. He's not a safety at this level. IMO, he's a lot like Drue Tranquil. A step slow at safety in a frame that is begging to play linebacker. Please convince him to move to Rover Clark Lea....

Mike: Bilal
2. Simon
3. Bauer / Ekwonu

Buck: Lamb
2. Genmark-Heath
3. Kiser

Rover: Owusu-Koramoah
2. Moala
3. Allen

That should be the functional depth chart in the fall, IMO. Clark Lea has a ton of work to do with these guys between now and September 1st. He's a very good coach though and I have faith that he's going to field a respectable unit come the fall.

Safeties: Well ND has a pair of guys that could be All Americans, so there is that. I absolutely love the player Jalen Elliott has become. I'm proud of that kid. He's the best communicator back there. He's physical. He takes good angles to the football and he's the leader of that backend. He and Gilman will likely both be captains on this year's team and if that's the case, it's much deserved. I feel really good about those two starters and I think Kyle Hamilton will be an impact freshman and assume the #3 role. I've said it numerous times and I'll say it again, Allen should be moved to Rover, which leaves Brown as the #4 safety. He's clearly still learning, so it's a little early to judge... I wish Houston Griffith was playing as the #3 guy in this group right now. It's really where he belongs, IMO. Hamilton and he would make an excellent 2nd group in the fall and you'd feel really good about the transition after Elliot and Gilman graduate.

CB: Troy Pride is going to what we expect from him. He came on the back half of last year and looks like he's ready to be a #1 corner... The problem opposite him was in recruiting. ND struck out in 2017, after their two corners decomitted mid cycle and they wound up landing nobody. That proved to be a catastrophe, because Paulson Adebo would be lining up opposite Troy Pride and we'd be talking about one of the top corner pairings in the country. Because of the Donte Vaughn and Shaun Crawford injuries, Houston Griffith is starting out of position (should be the #3 safety) and Clark Lea is praying that either Vaughn comes back and wins the job, Crawford makes a miraculous recovery from a 3rd severe leg injury, or Griffith learns to play corner... ND has plenty of bodies to battle for the position, let's hope one of Vaughn, Crawford, Agoro, Bracy or Griffith win it outright in the fall and let's also hope that another one of those guys steps up as a quality #2 behind Troy Pride.
This is flat out awesome. Thanks IIO.
 
Back to thoughts on the spring game.

1. Book is the best QB, not even close but that doesn't mean book should get 100% of the snaps. To me, book looked exactly the same. He was going against an inexperienced defense and was able to pick them apart. He still had happy feet a few times when the pocket was fine, and we didn't get to see much downfield passing. With that said, IMHO he's got better weapons to throw to this year, so that will help.

2. Phil, he's got a long ways to go to be a championship caliber QB. With that said, he needs to get valuable in game reps this year. Either because book improves and we light up some teams, or because book hasn't improved and Phil gets worked in.

3. Claypool should have a monster year if healthy and book is QB. I said it last year and it didn't happen for multiple reasons. We shall see.

4. Armstrong might be the best all around back we've had under Kelly. He won't hit the pure home runs adams or williams hit, but he can do everything.

5. O-line did some good things especially in run game, and did some bad things in pass pro. Oline is key for ND O this year. They looked like possibly one of our most athletic Olines.

6. I think the TEs will be used more effectively this year

7. Dline can get at the QB, but run D might not be stout

8. LBers are extremely athletic, but i feel like the best LBers weren't all with the ones. Bilal is just awful, they showed him run down a play or two, but he had to run it down because he was so late and clueless

9. Corners scare me. I think Pride will be solid, but not confident in our #2 at all.

10. Safety play should be good
the absolute best thing to come out of the spring game is no one was significantly injured.
 
You posited that Kelly should let Book run the read option and I countered that that would be foolish because ND doesn’t have a capable backup QB.

You then went on to tell us that PJ is a better athlete than Book, to which I countered that that was irrelevant since Book was the better QB.

Kizer was more than a capable QB, he was a better QB than Zaire, Kelly just didn’t recognize that he was a better QB.

It’s also worth noting that Procise was also a backup at the start of the season, which again speaks to the question of recognizing talent.

It’s not a matter of coaching scared, it’s a matter of coaching smart.

"You posited that Kelly should let Book run the read option and I countered that that would be foolish because ND doesn’t have a capable backup QB.

You then went on to tell us that PJ is a better athlete than Book, to which I countered that that was irrelevant since Book was the better QB."


You are ridiculous -- that is NOT what IIO said -- Book is functional enough to run the read option -- enough to keep a defense honest and not zero in (look at Northwestern and Book's TD run). Book does not need to run the read option 15 times a game, but enough to keep the DE's from simply caving in on that type of play.

PJ may be a better overall athlete than Book -- but, Book, right now, is a better QB than PJ -- you really need to know the difference!
 
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the absolute best thing to come out of the spring game is no one was significantly injured.
2nd best thing would be if the coaches just realize, Bilal is not a football player. Just because he looks like one doesn't mean he is one. ISD has a review up, and their take on Bilal is very very bad.
 
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Ian is a gamer and there are three or four times per game where he tries to make a play when the best course of action is throwing the ball away. Instead he runs and gets hit, etc... I would rather he make these throw always and take these three or four hits running the read option.

That said, Phil did nothing to give anyone confidence that he can fill in and run this team. The year before last, the consensus was that if needed, Ian could come in and run the offense efficiently and without major mistakes. That said, I think Phil is the type of QB that makes more than his share of poor throws, mixed in with some great throws, and when you factor in his running and athleticism, the kind of QB that can cause a lot of problems for the defense, when given the freedom to run. The format of the Spring game is terrible for Phil’s game. Like many have said here, he needs in game experience and I hope we’re not here bitching during the season about Kelly keeping Ian in until the last series or two in games that we dominate and secure early.
 
Ian is a gamer and there are three or four times per game where he tries to make a play when the best course of action is throwing the ball away. Instead he runs and gets hit, etc... I would rather he make these throw always and take these three or four hits running the read option.

That said, Phil did nothing to give anyone confidence that he can fill in and run this team. The year before last, the consensus was that if needed, Ian could come in and run the offense efficiently and without major mistakes. That said, I think Phil is the type of QB that makes more than his share of poor throws, mixed in with some great throws, and when you factor in his running and athleticism, the kind of QB that can cause a lot of problems for the defense, when given the freedom to run. The format of the Spring game is terrible for Phil’s game. Like many have said here, he needs in game experience and I hope we’re not here bitching during the season about Kelly keeping Ian in until the last series or two in games that we dominate and secure early.

"That said, Phil did nothing to give anyone confidence that he can fill in and run this team"

Was it me, or did a lot of the balls he threw seem to have downward point to them?
 
2nd best thing would be if the coaches just realize, Bilal is not a football player. Just because he looks like one doesn't mean he is one. ISD has a review up, and their take on Bilal is very very bad.
have to defer to them. pretty such they are much more knowledgeable about the situation than all of us here combined and then some.
 
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Ian is a gamer and there are three or four times per game where he tries to make a play when the best course of action is throwing the ball away. Instead he runs and gets hit, etc... I would rather he make these throw always and take these three or four hits running the read option.

That said, Phil did nothing to give anyone confidence that he can fill in and run this team. The year before last, the consensus was that if needed, Ian could come in and run the offense efficiently and without major mistakes. That said, I think Phil is the type of QB that makes more than his share of poor throws, mixed in with some great throws, and when you factor in his running and athleticism, the kind of QB that can cause a lot of problems for the defense, when given the freedom to run. The format of the Spring game is terrible for Phil’s game. Like many have said here, he needs in game experience and I hope we’re not here bitching during the season about Kelly keeping Ian in until the last series or two in games that we dominate and secure early.
The problem is we rarely blow out teams to allow us the opportunity to put in 2nd string players. We were better last year so lets hope this year we can find a few games where Phil can play the entire 4th quarter and they let him throw the ball.
 
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Boy I read this message board first THEN watched the game. As usual the reactions here are far more negative then what I generally saw, particularly as it relates to Jurcovic. He’s unquestionably got a ways to go but man he lead a few scoring drives and completed a number of nice throws. Yes he missed some easy throws, yes he doesn’t throw a ton of clean spirals, and yes he took a ton of sacks. But the overreaction here is over the top iyam. Kiser was far worse off before being thrust into the starting role.

Very encourage by our running backs, our front line starters at Oline, and our defensive ends, which are just going to wreck teams this year. Man is that going to be fun to watch.
 
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Ian is a gamer and there are three or four times per game where he tries to make a play when the best course of action is throwing the ball away. Instead he runs and gets hit, etc... I would rather he make these throw always and take these three or four hits running the read option.

That said, Phil did nothing to give anyone confidence that he can fill in and run this team. The year before last, the consensus was that if needed, Ian could come in and run the offense efficiently and without major mistakes. That said, I think Phil is the type of QB that makes more than his share of poor throws, mixed in with some great throws, and when you factor in his running and athleticism, the kind of QB that can cause a lot of problems for the defense, when given the freedom to run. The format of the Spring game is terrible for Phil’s game. Like many have said here, he needs in game experience and I hope we’re not here bitching during the season about Kelly keeping Ian in until the last series or two in games that we dominate and secure early.
The problem is we didn't dominate games all year long.

Under Wimbush we dominated early then couldn't put them away
Under book, we came out slow then dominated in the second half.

Agree 100% and I Stated it above. Phil needs valuable in game reps this year. If book has improved we should roll some teams. If he hasn't improved he should start getting worked in to prepare for the future.
 
have to defer to them. pretty such they are much more knowledgeable about the situation than all of us here combined and then some.
Brian Kelly hired and kept BVG for 3 years. No one is perfect or without mistakes.

I honestly think Bilal had absolutely no competition last year, and this year they are hoping to have some leadership/experience out there. With that said, I saw so much more out of other lbers during the game than Bilal. ISD agrees.
 
Brian Kelly hired and kept BVG for 3 years. No one is perfect or without mistakes.

I honestly think Bilal had absolutely no competition last year, and this year they are hoping to have some leadership/experience out there. With that said, I saw so much more out of other lbers during the game than Bilal. ISD agrees.
never said they were perfect. you disagree that the coaches are in the best position to make the personnel decisions ?
 
Brian Kelly hired and kept BVG for 3 years. No one is perfect or without mistakes.

I honestly think Bilal had absolutely no competition last year, and this year they are hoping to have some leadership/experience out there. With that said, I saw so much more out of other lbers during the game than Bilal. ISD agrees.
also a spring game format is the absolute worst scenario in which to come to any concrete conclusions about any player good or bad.
 
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